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50 Beowulf or 458 SOCOM.... (Page 5 of 8)
Eotech holds up fine just get the screw tight. Eotech doesnt advise.....but if you put a small bit of thread locker on the cross bolt she will stay nice and snug.. I think Eotech is afraid that the thread locker will eat the plastic on the site |
"The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse always gets the cheese"
A little hole kills em, but a big hole kills em a little faster------50-Beowulf
A little hole kills em, but a big hole kills em a little faster------50-Beowulf
i have it on a larue mount.held up without a hitch! now,i also tryed out the pmags with .50b. i only have 2.one with the window,one without. both worked without a hitch.no mods to either mag.i also took a couple other AR mags,but had alot of fail to feeds.i read that you have to mess with the feed ramp,but i didnt have time to piss with it..i wanted to shoot! |
Anyone who tries to crash my dinner party,is going to get some copper coated candy for dessert
| I just got a Beowulf upper and Shot it for the first time today. All I can say is WOW! The thing is very accurate. We put bowling pins on the berm at 100+ yards and I have never seen a bowling pin destroyed by any other round quite so dramatically. For those that reload do the cases need trimming much and if so how do you trim them. I do not have a .50 cal pilot and am not sure the cutting head would work? |
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Pretty cool when 350 grains or more hits an object going around 1800+/- FPS! |
Big Bores for Big Boars!
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| I am not a big fan of shotguns but in Illinois that is what we must hunt with, with the exception to coyote. Which one really is the more powerful round, your 458/50 B. or 1oz 12 ga. slug 3/4" or 3" mag. I want the Socom but I am looking at feasablity also. Paper is great but exploding coyotes are better. |
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I would say effective range is similar for the big bores and the shotgun slugs, but the velocity is probably/maybe higher on the big bores, so they will shoot a little flatter and faster and you might have a better chance at bagging the coyotes? I know the .50Beo has fodder in the 275gr-530gr range, so you can push bullets over 2000fps and subsonic on the other end. .458S only has a 350gr bullet running at 1300fps, so it sucks. HAHAHAHA!!!! Just kidding (did I get ya Cold? Yer blood pressure rise a few points?!) The 458S has similar bullet choices and similar velocities and factory ammo is similarly expensive. Both calibers are a good handloader's choice, unless you have lot's of money to spend on ammo! |
Chris - That is a sure way to end up on the receiving end of a DOS attack on your computer  SOCOM has a 86 gr bullet going 3000 fps nah-nah-nah     
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'Good. Then we'll have our battle in the shade.'
Yup, Dave at Lehigh tested them in his .45-70 ... hit a detergent bottle filled with water at CQB distance. He was not able to recover any recognizable part of the bottle or bullet other than the cap off the bottle ... hydrostatic shock like no other ... |
'Good. Then we'll have our battle in the shade.'
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I have both for now and these are my opinions of the pros and cons. Please excuse my rambling long post, as I am doing this partially working out future hunting loads. For me a best big bore round would be something like a 416 high pressure ar15 cartridge to run at 50k. Your selection might depend on what you want to use it for. At least that would help but there is not a huge difference until you get out in yardage a bit. Both use the same case as a basis limited to 35k. A shame neither actions were not set up on a variant of 404 jefferies brass to run at higher pressures, but.... 458 socom, uppers, brass etc seem hard to find right now, but I did manage to get an upper within a week by looking around on the boards. These types of guns are about knockdown power IMO, so I tend to look for FPE in the 1500-2000# area vs range. 50 beo pluses as I see them......... Big ole hole but uses pistol limited SD bullets. The 400 JFP is probably not quite enough SD for the largest nasty NA animals like brownies although there is some steel tip stuff out there. Runs on a standard grendel size bolt face and this is a good advantage. (I would assume these are stronger than the .473 bolt face used on the socom but not sure.) The uppers and brass are more available. The 50 has an efficiency advantage pushing the bullet out of the barrel, as is evident in published load data. A 400 grainer will leave a 16" barrel at 1800 fps, while the socom with a 16" barrel takes a hit and the same weight but longer bullets is around 1650, but the advantage catches up due to the 458 better BC/SD. The socom really needs a 20" barrel. 458 socom pluses as I see them......... The 458 socom uses rifle bullets and there is a better selection of them with better SD/BC, but they also need to be seated deeper in the case. (I think bullet BC/SD is the biggest advantage for the 458 socom) Carries more energy farther and has a bit better trajectory. Hawk makes bullets for both, but makes 300, 350 and 400 grain spire points in .458 and its a very nice bullet for hunting with a good BC/SD. Energy drops off faster for the beo, although read this article. Ugashik Bob dropped this massive moose. http://www.50beowulf.com/bboard/showthread.php?t=40 Hawk or Sierra 400 JFP, SD - roughly .202, big chuck of lead out of the barrel of a 16" barrel 50 beo at 1800 fps VS Hawk 400 gr spire point, SD - .272, out of the barrel of a 16" barrel 458 socom at 1650 fps (maxed). Besdies the superior 458 SD (but the 50 makes a bigger hole) Its really half dozen or the other. 16" barrel vs 16" barrel and the beo has the FPE advantage out to about 75 yards then the 458 superior BC/SD catches up. 50 Beo, 16" barrel, 400 grainer at 1800 fps - FPE out of the barrel - 2880 50 yds - 2303 100 yds - 1834 200 yds - 1209 458 socom, 16" barrel, 400 grainer at 1650 fps - FPE out of the barrel - 2420 50 yds - 2180 100 yds - 1950 200 yds - 1581 458 socom, 16" barrel, 350 grainer at 1800 fps - FPE out of the barrel - 2532 50 yds - 2253 100 yds - 2000 200 yds - 1575 IMO, the socom desperately needs a 20" barrel to get the fps/fpe up. Probably could not hurt the 50 beo either. 458 socom, 20" barrel, 400 grainer at 1700 fps - FPE out of the barrel - 2580 50 yds - 2317 100 yds - 2080 200 yds - 1682 The socom is better suited to 300-350 grainers. 300 grainers the SD is still a little low, but the 350 hawk should be around .24 which is decent. 458 socom, 20" barrel, 350 grainer at 1900 fps - FPE out of the barrel - 2800 50 yds - 2500 100 yds - 2220 200 yds - 1750 Above loaded long in a milled out mag and moly coated should return..... 458 socom, 20" barrel, 350 grainer at 1950 fps - FPE out of the barrel - 2950 50 yds - 2630 100 yds - 2350 200 yds - 1850 and 5" low with a 150 yard zero. 1850 at 200 yards, if possible, is a very respectable #. I guess the bottom line for me and the only one that makes any sense in a choice between the two is if you plan to shoot beyond 100 or so yards. Under 100 the beo has an advantage, but I think either would work just fine. |
Links please . Ok, should probably search MartytW's site first, but...I was showing my wife the fun of shooting 2lt bottles with a 45/70 this weekend, but if this makes it even more impressive, need to look into loading some. |
Yes it is. It's one reason why I still hunt with my .50 cal inline muzzleloader (T/C brand). Nothing like 26" of barrel and 150 grains of Pyrodex pellets behind a 385 Hornady Great Plains bullet. That being said, I'm going the .458 SOCOM route. I know what those rounds do in my .45/70 Ruger #1 when I hand load them, and I would love to have a repeat fire bear/hog gun. Hog season is open year round in my state (GA)... |
If you like your 385gr .50T/C why wouldnt you go with a .50Beowulf? You could certainly load the same bullet a hell of a lot faster out of a 16" repeating carbine.... plus, Mack thinks Bewulf is cool enough for Discovery Channel... haha |
It's called economics. Why buy another type of bullet for handloading when I already have a slew of .45cal rifle bullets at the house (from the .45/70)? |
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Because dumbass, it gives you an excuse to buy a .500S&W revolver to have commonality of bullets!!! COMEON MAN, THINK HERE HOW YOU CAN JUSTIFY MORE GUNS!!!! Actually, just get the 50B, then the 458S, then the 500S&W and you will be all set in case zombies attack... |
Not that I need an excuse to buy another gun, but I prefer that my .50s stay in the muzzleloader category. Besides, if I can't get it done with the .458, I just can't get it done... |
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Now we could buy some boxes of hornady lever-revolution ammo in .45-70 and pull the 325 grain ftx bullets for the .458 socom, or get the 500S&W loads with a 300gr ftx for the 50 beowulf. Then there are the .458 cal muzzle loader sabots with .40cal 180gr's inside. And the solids meant for the .458 win mag class safari stuff. Wider selection of .458 diameter bullets than .500 diameter makes me inclined to stick with the .458s. Not to mention the fact that the 6.5 grendel and .50 beowulf are proprietary cartridges of alexander arms, so loaded ammunition is only going to come from one supplier and in limited configurations. There is more than 1 company selling factory loads for the .458 socom at this time. All that aside, the .450 bushmaster is using .451 diameter bullets which are designed to function at the lower velocities of a .45 auto. The .458 diameter bullets are either intended for .45-70 velocities or .458 win mag velocities, so the bullets intended for expansion in the .458 win mag class won't necessarily perform at .45-70/.458socom velocities. |
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The Hawk 350 gr spire point is almost a perfect match for the 458 socom and it can be loaded to 2.26". Very good performance. The 458 socom definately carries more FPE farther out than the 50 beo. Personally I think a 375 or 416 would be even better. Having owned both the 50 Beo and 458 socom, if I go for another ar15 big bore, it will be a 375 or 416 built off a WSSM case to run at high pressure. Both the beo and socom deperately need a 20" barrel and more speed. With that said either are good for what they are intended, and that is stopping something big, in its tracks at a close distance. Probably not quite enough for an alaskan growler though. |
I think the maker of the .458 SOCOM round would completely disagree that a longer barrel is what the round needs. Remember the primary purpose for the creation of the round and it's intended role (like you alluded to). It's for one shot take downs of "bad guys", using a proven and reliable platform (nothing better than the M16/AR15 for the US armed forces) in carbine length closer quarters guns. I'm not saying it wouldn't kick ass to have a 24" barrel .458, but rather that the 20"+ sized weapons get to be a bit cumbersome in our current and projected battles... |
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I didnt really mean a long barrel just enough barrel and pressure to get the FPE up there at 200-300 yards.. I had in mind to build a real brown bear stopper, when I started fiddling around with these two uppers, and finally figured out they just cant handle enough pressure to get the FPE up to where it needs to be for brownies, IE in the 2000fpe ++ area at 200 yards. Mind you neither of these rifles was really designed for that either, and a couple of well placed shots might suffice if you have time. For instance a 458 and a 350 grainer at around 35K comes out of a 16" barrel at around maybe 1800 fps for an extra hot load and at 200 yds the fpe = 1570. A 20" barrel alone would get you up to 1720 at 200 yards and thats getting a little closer. A 20" barrel is not that bad for hunting, but for extreme CQ or in and out of a car its too long. If you run numbers as a 458 WSSM wildcat running at 60k, then that 350 grainer out of a 20" barrel suddenly turns into a world class cartridge that would stop anything on the planet. A 458 WSSM 350 gr hawk, 20" barrel running at 2270 fps, returns 4000 fpe out of the barrel and 2500 fpe at 200 yards. That and a lot of extra recoil. It was never designed for that type of use, but I just thought it might be neat. I have talked to Dtech about something similar a few times. Expensive though. I have a 338/284 savage that returns some nasty fpe numbers, and as far as cost vs 458 setup it would be cheaper to just buy a 450 marlin. |
I have one in that (24" Barrel) on the way. Going to be my new deer slayer. Gotta love Marty. |
Indeed, I would say that I "love" Marty, but that might be going a bit too far If I'm getting a 24" barrel for this chambering, I'm going bolt action or single shot of some sort (probably bolt action). That would completely rule... |
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Now that's a damn nice bear! Glad you are helping to keep the woods safe for my sisterinlaw and her husband while they hike! I gotta say, that is one sexy rifle you got there! Who would have EVER thought of having a walnut ff tube and a walnut ACE skeleton stock? And who could ever actually MAKE that stuff? See ya in August maybe... |
You know now that I see that walnut stock and forend against a bear background, it does look very nice! I wasn't too enamoured with it before (not that I didn't like it, but it wasn't black! ), but now it looks downright purdy.  Nice bear too! And since Curlymaple is too modest to come out and say it... he's the one who did that fancy work on the walnut stock, so if anyone wants something similar I suggest contacting him.
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Thanks Power-plant! Well, Mr. Bear Hunter above also seems to have a nack for taking really nice pictures of that rifle too! The color of the walnut against the green background is amazing, not to mention the dead bear brings out the beauty of the rifle too! Seems like I might need to bring some rifles out this summer so he can take some pix of them, or I need to find out what camera he uses! |
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AMESO, Nice shooting! |
When theres lead in the air...theres hope in the heart.
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I just don't think it's worth it to add a pound of barrel weight at the front of the gun for that small of a gain in velocity. With a 400gr Hawk that 50fps gives you only 100 ft lbs of energy, which is about the strength of a solid closed-fist punch based on my quick Google search. I'd rather carry save energy by carrying a lighter rifle, and then if necessary go punch the animal afterwards for that extra 100 ft lbs ;-) If you need something reaching out several hundred yards then other calibers are probably better choices. AA doesn't have any 24" Beowulfs on their website, probably because there is no demand for them. The costs outweight the benefits of the longer barrel. |
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It is gone because the .458S has gone under due to lack of sales. JUST KIDDING!!! I think Cold is revamping the site actually to a new server or system. As we know from our exploits with the 50beowulf.com site, growing pains can suck, but the benefits are worth it (ie. keeping spam down being the best thing!). I would keep trying the .458S site. I did a few minutes ago and it is totally not up at all. I would guess it will be up soon enough though. Hey Cold, get your ass moving!!! |
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Another victim falls to the .458 Socom. Took my son Hunter out to a local shooting pit to clean it up this morning. Showed up at 8:15 and worked until about 11:15. Then added in a drive to Hawks Prairie to drop off our 1,100 pounds of steel, in time to take a shower and head out hunting by 1:30pm. Hunter said he didn't want to go hunting, and I reminded him what happened the last time he tried to wimp out. He shot his first deer. That kind of got him pumped, so he was in. He had to be, cause he had the tag. Got to the site we were hunting for the day on our never-ending (we had been out 44 hours in various blinds all over the Quinault reservation) quest for Hunter's bear by 3:30pm and had everything set up by about 4pm. Had a few snacks, and it was warm. Glad I iced the sodas. I kept joking with him on how we were going to get skunked, and then at 7:45pm we bet on when the bears were going to come in. He picked 8:00, I picked 8:15pm. He was right on the money.  53 yard shot with my .458 Socom using ammo we loaded together. Hit the bear high on the shoulder, taking out the spine, and the bear never moved, except to go straight down. Total of 48 hours in the blind, hundreds of dollars in gas, a few pennies for the tags, and thankfully Papa Don (father in law) picked up the tab for the guide fee. Well, got some skinning to do. |
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Carbon tube with wood lamination: Curlymaple42 .458S rifle built by: Marty @ Teppo Jutsu ACE skeleton stock with wood lamination: AMESO & Curlymaple42 collaboration! All parts and builds are available through the respective parties. Many wood types available, just IM me or email me. Props go out to AMESO for his great photography too!!! |
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Your face is hidden here, however your avitar shows you in the exact same hunting outift. NOTE: Hide face on avitar also. StagPower
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This thread has been stagnant for a while. So, I thought I'd make a contribution... I was able to pick-up a UBR last week and break it in a bit this weekend. I give the stock a two-thumbs-up. It is definitely heavier than the standard collapsibles available to us, which is encouraging when considering the rifle it is on. This is a picture of two of the three pigs we put it to, about three weeks ago near the Yazoo River. One of these was taken with my buddy's 6.8; the other fell to a 334gr HP. It is just a cell phone pic, but is better than nothing. 
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| It was a one time deal. I think it is a 75000 buy in to get in that camp. If you need help killing I don't mind the drive. I live in Madison just outside of Jackson. I've been shooting in dcm competitions at magnolia rifle and pistol range I need more competition. |
50 Beowulf or 458 SOCOM.... (Page 5 of 8)
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