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Posted: 10/31/2025 2:59:30 PM EDT
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Anyone put together a 30 Luger upper? I’ve been trying to get the 90 grain Hornady to work in 300 blackout but the case is too big for subsonic consistency. I’m bored so I decided I would try to put an upper together. Any insights would be appreciated. |
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| There were a few uppers on the market when 7.62 tokarev was plentiful. The rounds are very similar. It would be a good place to start researching. |
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Attached File Not my picture. But close enough Tok on left Luger on right. The good thing is that Luger will fit in 9mm magazines. Tok is still too much case for what I’m looking for. Barrel has been ordered. |
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I had a 7.62 Tok barrel. It used PPS-43 mags with an adapter. I never ran reliably—failures to feed. I think I must have sold the barrel because I can’t find it. I also have a barrel in .22 TCM. It ran beautifully with brass-cased ammo. When I started to use the case of nickel-plated ammo I bought I started having failures to feed every other round. Super frustrating. That one uses a Pmag with an Endomag insert. |
Knight of Blunder - Fogo '21
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The 90 gr JHP will work just fine in the 762 Tok case. I actually had a PT92 (knock off M9) with a 762 Tok barrel that would feed those rounds without issue. Still have the barrel. With that loaded length, you can use standard 9mm mags... Attached File |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
| Lest I forget, built an upper or two in 7.62 x 25... running surplus ammo, reloads, etc. Using PPs43 mags, as well as 5.45x39 AR mags for the longer loads you see in the picture. |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I think I would rather have 9x23 win instead of 30 luger. Or a 38Super. I’m considering making a 357 Sig. But, loading the bullets to standard 1911 length. I think that would do be an interesting idea. I’ve already made some dummies, and test fed them using a 10mm barrel. I think the concept is sound. I can’t do anything until I fix my lathe, so I can make a heavier buffer, if needed, and chambering. https://imgur.com/a/XRJGkt1 |
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Originally Posted By TonyRumore: When doing ANY caliber conversion for ANY gun, always sort out the magazine first, before spending any more time on the project. Tony Rumore Tromix Which is the reason why I haven’t put together a 38Super/9x23 upper. I am not sure of the magazine situation. I have tried 1911 length 357Sigs of of a Glock 20(10mm) magazine into a 10mm upper, and I had no issues. I think it would be an interesting build. |
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Originally Posted By Sailormilan2: Which is the reason why I haven’t put together a 38Super/9x23 upper. I am not sure of the magazine situation. I have tried 1911 length 357Sigs of of a Glock 20(10mm) magazine into a 10mm upper, and I had no issues. I think it would be an interesting build. I use the endo mags for my 9mm carbine. There is a spacer in the back of it that if taken out, it will fit 9x23. I tried it and it seems to work. But not having a actual barrel chambered in it makes real testing not possible. |
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Originally Posted By TonyRumore: When doing ANY caliber conversion for ANY gun, always sort out the magazine first, before spending any more time on the project. Tony Rumore Tromix Yup, this exactly, it has derailed a few projects. With all the new mag options out there, a few of those projects are getting dusted off. Already test fed a few rounds with some odd components that were laying around. Stay tuned 
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Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I use the endo mags for my 9mm carbine. There is a spacer in the back of it that if taken out, it will fit 9x23. I tried it and it seems to work. But not having a actual barrel chambered in it makes real testing not possible. I have some Endomags. I will have to go back and give them another look. If that’s the case, then I’ll have to consider the 38Super. It has a bit more case volume, which might be better for slower powders and heavier bullets. But, I don’t want to rechamber a barrel to 38Super that has already been chambered for 9x19(9mm Luger/Parabellum). |
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Attached File So far it has been better than expected. I thought I would have to play with buffer weights but the H3 I already had in the lower worked fine. |
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Originally Posted By KILROD73: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/312238/IMG_1369_jpeg-3664148.JPG So far it has been better than expected. I thought I would have to play with buffer weights but the H3 I already had in the lower worked fine. Did you make the mag adapters or are those commercial examples? |
Knight of Blunder - Fogo '21
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Originally Posted By MartytW: The 90 gr JHP will work just fine in the 762 Tok case. I actually had a PT92 (knock off M9) with a 762 Tok barrel that would feed those rounds without issue. Still have the barrel. With that loaded length, you can use standard 9mm mags... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2963/IMG_0289_JPG-3661406.JPG I would like to hear some more about that project. Was the magazine long enough to fit factory ammo, or did you have to load for it specially? Where did you get the barrel? @MartytW |
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Originally Posted By mace2364: I would like to hear some more about that project. Was the magazine long enough to fit factory ammo, or did you have to load for it specially? Where did you get the barrel? @MartytW Originally Posted By mace2364: Originally Posted By MartytW: The 90 gr JHP will work just fine in the 762 Tok case. I actually had a PT92 (knock off M9) with a 762 Tok barrel that would feed those rounds without issue. Still have the barrel. With that loaded length, you can use standard 9mm mags... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2963/IMG_0289_JPG-3661406.JPG I would like to hear some more about that project. Was the magazine long enough to fit factory ammo, or did you have to load for it specially? Where did you get the barrel? @MartytW I'll send you an IM, but it may also be in the hallowed halls of the ARFCOM Archives... |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Originally Posted By MartytW: I'll send you an IM, but it may also be in the hallowed halls of the ARFCOM Archives... Originally Posted By MartytW: Originally Posted By mace2364: Originally Posted By MartytW: The 90 gr JHP will work just fine in the 762 Tok case. I actually had a PT92 (knock off M9) with a 762 Tok barrel that would feed those rounds without issue. Still have the barrel. With that loaded length, you can use standard 9mm mags... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2963/IMG_0289_JPG-3661406.JPG I would like to hear some more about that project. Was the magazine long enough to fit factory ammo, or did you have to load for it specially? Where did you get the barrel? @MartytW I'll send you an IM, but it may also be in the hallowed halls of the ARFCOM Archives... Attached File Feel free to share any 7.62x25 info. I was leaning toward Tok but the Luger was more in line with what I wanted to accomplish. |
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Originally Posted By KILROD73: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/312238/IMG_1371_jpeg-3665870.JPG Feel free to share any 7.62x25 info. I was leaning toward Tok but the Luger was more in line with what I wanted to accomplish. Originally Posted By KILROD73: Originally Posted By MartytW: Originally Posted By mace2364: Originally Posted By MartytW: The 90 gr JHP will work just fine in the 762 Tok case. I actually had a PT92 (knock off M9) with a 762 Tok barrel that would feed those rounds without issue. Still have the barrel. With that loaded length, you can use standard 9mm mags... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2963/IMG_0289_JPG-3661406.JPG I would like to hear some more about that project. Was the magazine long enough to fit factory ammo, or did you have to load for it specially? Where did you get the barrel? @MartytW I'll send you an IM, but it may also be in the hallowed halls of the ARFCOM Archives... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/312238/IMG_1371_jpeg-3665870.JPG Feel free to share any 7.62x25 info. I was leaning toward Tok but the Luger was more in line with what I wanted to accomplish. I intend to do a few posts in the very near future on some calibers that we have worked on. The 7.62 x 25 will be one of those. Had to get some parts n pieces in, to get some updated information as some things have changed in the last 2 decades... |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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When I worked at Tenn Guns Intl, we had a mountain of Bulgarian 7.62x25 ammo. It was corrosive. People ordered a case every now and again. Some guy called and wanted every bit we had. All of it. Said he was working on an AR upper and wanted the ammo to sell with the uppers. We had crates of the PPSh-41 mags also. We probably had 25,000-30,000 PPsh-41 mags. He bought all them also. I bought around 10 mags and 4 800rd cases of the ammo. |
I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me and say "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.
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Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
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Originally Posted By KILROD73: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/312238/IMG_1369_jpeg-3664148.JPG So far it has been better than expected. I thought I would have to play with buffer weights but the H3 I already had in the lower worked fine. What magazines are those? Glock 10mm? What about the straight one? |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: What magazines are those? Glock 10mm? What about the straight one? Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Originally Posted By KILROD73: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/312238/IMG_1369_jpeg-3664148.JPG So far it has been better than expected. I thought I would have to play with buffer weights but the H3 I already had in the lower worked fine. What magazines are those? Glock 10mm? What about the straight one? Regular Glock 9mm mags and colt style 9mm. |
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I've kicked around 30 Luger as a possible one to try. As far as oddball calibers go I agree wholeheartedly the mag is the starting point. I do a lot of tinkering with non standard calibers. My oddballs so far are- 17hm2 (regular 22lr AR mags) 32acp (Work in progress due to mags and feed ramp geometry. Been experimenting with Beretta 81 mag inserted into a gutted 10rd Pmag. Also have VZ-61 mag to try) 380 (9mm glock mags have worked well for it in both dedicated PCC lower and standard AR lower with adapter) 7.62 Tok (KAK parts and Endomag P-mag insert as per their recommendation. Works fine) 17 Fireball (regular 223 Pmags work fine) 221 Fireball (Same as 17 Fireball. Have both a 16" and an 8". Pmags work fine) 280 British (Brass converted from 308 based cases. Standard AR10 Pmags work fine) 375 Raptor (Also converted from 308 based brass. Uses standard 10rd Pmag but needs some internal reducing of the front guide rib to account for the fatty bullet diameter) I want one in 7.5x55 Swiss but that would require a step up from AR10 to magnum frame and none of the companies that make those will sell components. All of these started with working out what magazine to use or modify to get it to work. Some are easy and use standard mags. Others take some outside the box thinking and tinkering. The easy ones allow you to move on to the rest of puzzle. Some like my 32acp project get stuck at the mag well. |
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Originally Posted By tsymonds: I've kicked around 30 Luger as a possible one to try. As far as oddball calibers go I agree wholeheartedly the mag is the starting point. I do a lot of tinkering with non standard calibers. My oddballs so far are- 17hm2 (regular 22lr AR mags) 32acp (Work in progress due to mags and feed ramp geometry. Been experimenting with Beretta 81 mag inserted into a gutted 10rd Pmag. Also have VZ-61 mag to try) 380 (9mm glock mags have worked well for it in both dedicated PCC lower and standard AR lower with adapter) 7.62 Tok (KAK parts and Endomag P-mag insert as per their recommendation. Works fine) 17 Fireball (regular 223 Pmags work fine) 221 Fireball (Same as 17 Fireball. Have both a 16" and an 8". Pmags work fine) 280 British (Brass converted from 308 based cases. Standard AR10 Pmags work fine) 375 Raptor (Also converted from 308 based brass. Uses standard 10rd Pmag but needs some internal reducing of the front guide rib to account for the fatty bullet diameter) I want one in 7.5x55 Swiss but that would require a step up from AR10 to magnum frame and none of the companies that make those will sell components. All of these started with working out what magazine to use or modify to get it to work. Some are easy and use standard mags. Others take some outside the box thinking and tinkering. The easy ones allow you to move on to the rest of puzzle. Some like my 32acp project get stuck at the mag well. Wow. Heckuva fifth post! I’m curious about your 17 Mach 2 setup. I’ve been considering that cartridge for way too long. |
Knight of Blunder - Fogo '21
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As I previously posted, I’ve been thinking about modifying 357 Sig, modifying a 9mm barrel, and using 10mm magazines. A modified 357 Sig longer barrel of a PCC. By “modifying” I mean loading the bullets out to take advantage of the longer length of the 10mm magazine. I can get away with not changing the throat if using a Saeco 383 bullet. But, the load might be too hot for a cast lead bullet. To load jacketed bullets out, I would have to modify the throat, but I should still be able to use standard loaded 357 Sig. I loaded some dummies up and tested them using a 10mm barrel and they fed just fine. I hesitate because I’ve read some comments that getting a 357 Sig to work in a PCC can be problematic due to the bottleneck case. But I think that is can be easily solved used a very heavy buffer for a 10mm. In essence, that would give some akin to a 9x25 Dillon, with the ability to use a wider range of bullets. https://imgur.com/a/XRJGkt1 |
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Originally Posted By Scott_S: Wow. Heckuva fifth post! I’m curious about your 17 Mach 2 setup. I’ve been considering that cartridge for way too long. -Standard AR upper and lower -Custom 9" barrel made by Clint Beyer -CMMG conversion BCG -Borebuddy adjustable weight set and upgrades to the BCG (You'll need as much weight as available. I used the stainless weight with all the additional tungsten tuning rods) -Boonie Packer AR mag adapter to use M&P 22lr mags. Other mags work too but the M&P mags are available in 10rd and standard capacity. I run this setup in all my rimfire ARs. Allows standard AR bolt catch to work as normal -I used a pic rail adapter to mount a folding brace but a regular tube works too. Borebuddy sells a plug for the tube that will eliminate the need to keep the standard spring and buffer. Took some tuning and tinkering and really needs a bit more buffer weight but works pretty well. Roughly 1900fps from the 9" pipe. Hornady ammo is a bit faster than the CCI. Hornady has the occasional bulged case but still runs without much issue. The CCI is slightly slower but seems to be a bit more reliable with only seldom a bulged case. I run a 22lr can but it's got a fair bit of sonic crack from the bullet so definitely not as quiet as a 22lr. Still hearing safe outdoors though. |
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Been thinking about a 10mm magnum Already did a 44 auto mag 10 mm would use 6.8 spc mags as a starting point Make an aluminum mag block so the cases don’t slide forward and cut down the follower The biggest problem with straight wall cases is getting them to feed into the chamber Tony makes a big bore barrel extension with the perfect geometry I don’t bother anymore trying to grind them myself |
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Originally Posted By neuromancer1970: Been thinking about a 10mm magnum The biggest problem with straight wall cases is getting them to feed into the chamber Got the reamer, prolly the gauges, send me a PM if interested. Might even have a barrel still laying around... |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Originally Posted By neuromancer1970: Been thinking about a 10mm magnum Already did a 44 auto mag 10 mm would use 6.8 spc mags as a starting point Make an aluminum mag block so the cases don’t slide forward and cut down the follower The biggest problem with straight wall cases is getting them to feed into the chamber Tony makes a big bore barrel extension with the perfect geometry I don’t bother anymore trying to grind them myself I made two blowback 10mms. One with a rifle stock, and one with a carbine length stock. The hardest part was getting the bolt and buffer heavy enough. I finally figured out what I needed, and once I get my lathe fixed I will fine tune the buffer. I need a combined weight of around 35oz. The buffer is a 3piece unit that I jury rigged together. I’ve figured out how to get it down to two, and possibly one piece. One piece would be easier for the rifle length, but two pieces will probably be needed for the carbine. I’m using Glock mags, and seems to run well. There’s quite a bit of velocity increase. Around 300fps increase with 180gr and below. |
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Originally Posted By tsymonds: -Standard AR upper and lower -Custom 9" barrel made by Clint Beyer -CMMG conversion BCG -Borebuddy adjustable weight set and upgrades to the BCG (You'll need as much weight as available. I used the stainless weight with all the additional tungsten tuning rods) -Boonie Packer AR mag adapter to use M&P 22lr mags. Other mags work too but the M&P mags are available in 10rd and standard capacity. I run this setup in all my rimfire ARs. Allows standard AR bolt catch to work as normal -I used a pic rail adapter to mount a folding brace but a regular tube works too. Borebuddy sells a plug for the tube that will eliminate the need to keep the standard spring and buffer. Took some tuning and tinkering and really needs a bit more buffer weight but works pretty well. Roughly 1900fps from the 9" pipe. Hornady ammo is a bit faster than the CCI. Hornady has the occasional bulged case but still runs without much issue. The CCI is slightly slower but seems to be a bit more reliable with only seldom a bulged case. I run a 22lr can but it's got a fair bit of sonic crack from the bullet so definitely not as quiet as a 22lr. Still hearing safe outdoors though. Thanks for the reply. I already have a dedicated .22 AR with a CMMG barrel and bolt, and I use the Boonie Packer adapter to run S&W mags. Another barrel wouldn't hurt my wallet too badly. McFadden Machine Lightning Loader for the win! |
Knight of Blunder - Fogo '21
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Originally Posted By Scott_S: Thanks for the reply. I already have a dedicated .22 AR with a CMMG barrel and bolt, and I use the Boonie Packer adapter to run S&W mags. Another barrel wouldn't hurt my wallet too badly. McFadden Machine Lightning Loader for the win! In that case you're most of the way to the HM2. Not sure who else besides Clint Beyer makes HM2 pipes for the AR but his stuff is really top notch. I have a 16" 22lr barrel from him as well and it only weighs 11oz. Very rigid desigh too. He's old school somewhat and if you want a barrel you'll have to call him on the phone but he a hoot to talk to. HM2 is pretty hard on tree rats and trash pandas and I shut down the computer through the earhole on a medium size hog awhile back at a friends ranch from about 40yds. |
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Just checking in on the 30 Luger project, to see if any interesting updates. I was playing around with some other stuff and recalled this project and 'ran some numbers' - the results peaked my interest. Gotta do that big 762x25 post one of these days, need to get myself organized... |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Originally Posted By Pinkerton: Hi, Whose Uzi magazine adapter is that? Thank you, Pinkerton OUT! Buried in the thread - Stern Defence Glock mag adapter and the other is a colt style I got from Brownells forever ago. |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Attached File Ordered a Garmin c1 hope to have some results for the 8.5 inch barrel as soon as the heat and humidity break. Attached File Glock setup has been 100% The colt block has been very reliable. Does not like the Endomag at all. |
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Gimme about 2 weeks. Work in progress. Will do separate post as will be slightly different and so as not to step on OP thread. Btw, look at the Lehigh 85 gr Controlled Chaos bullets.... 30 Super Carry is really just a shortened 30 Carbine, I said what I said... load 30 Carbine with some heavy for caliber projos and tell 300 BO to go away. 30 Carb brass can take much more pressure, the max pressure was set by the action not the brass... |
Be careful when the boss asks "Have you ever been to ...?"
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
"You got out once. You dip so much as a pinky back into this (ARFCOM) pond... you may well find something reaches out... and drags you back into its depths".
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Originally Posted By MartytW: Gimme about 2 weeks. Work in progress. Will do separate post as will be slightly different and so as not to step on OP thread. Btw, look at the Lehigh 85 gr Controlled Chaos bullets.... 30 Super Carry is really just a shortened 30 Carbine, I said what I said... load 30 Carbine with some heavy for caliber projos and tell 300 BO to go away. 30 Carb brass can take much more pressure, the max pressure was set by the action not the brass... What's hilarious is that .30 SC is .30 Pedersen +P+. And the French used .30 Pedersen as a service pistol & submachine gun cartridge in the 2nd WW b/c they had tons of the stuff that we didn't ship home, and they couldn't afford to replace it w/ a proper service cartridge. |
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