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Braceman raided by ATF. (Page 7 of 10)
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Originally Posted By CenterMass762: A good friend of mine got the ATF called on him because he was tumbling brass in a small concrete mixer in his garage with the door open. A neighbor called and said he was making bombs. The ATF showed up, he showed them what he was doing and that he had a nice reloading setup with multiple 1050s, and they told him he had to get an 06 FFL. He replied that he didn't sell ammo and they countered with, "well if you don't want us coming back with shields and body armor, you'll get an 06 FFL."  |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: … And while I'm pissing people off, the 80% topic is the biggest rabbit hole of a lie that we've all deluded ourselves about. It's not cheaper, it's not better quality, and it's so very very not below the radar. It's flying your plane in an unusual manner at what you think is below radar. You're not below the radar - you're the brightest spot on the radar. Dangerous game for no reward, and the first people ATF likes to visit. ... Used to be. You could get a 5 pack of quality 80% lowers for like $75-100. Nowadays a raw 80% runs almost $50ea with no engravings or finish And quality depends on the end user, not the fact that it’s an 80%. Yeah, if you’re hacking one with a router kit (that also costs extra money) then painting it, you’ve got an “off book” lower at the expense of inferiority… might as well buy $40 poverty pony lowers private sale for cash at that point if anonymity was your goal. I made a pair of receivers with absolutely clone correct Colt M4A1 markings to use with my registered link/sear. I figured if I’m going through the trouble to have a registered MG legally… might as well make it look like the actual MG. I took care to machine the 80% receivers on actual bridgeports & CNCs to perfect dimensional tolerances then had them Mil-Spec hardcoat anodized at an anodizing shop that does firearms for manufactures commercially. They tossed my receivers in a batch for like $15ea. So my two clone receivers are pretty much perfect (other than the marks being cut instead of rolled) and I’d put their fit & finish up against any commercial receiver on the market… and they cost me ~$40ea |
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Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Texas? Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Texas? Found it. Basically that amateur fucked up, and compromised LAV's network. Investigators at the ATF grew suspicious when a dealer in Florida reported that a gun it had purchased from Fiorentino appeared to be a highly regulated short-barreled rifle. They discovered that Mr_Big_Koch was selling a lot of guns and didn’t have a dealer’s license, prosecutors allege. When ATF agents raided the condo Fiorentino shared with his fiancée, they found more than 60 guns, including four short-barreled rifles that he hadn’t registered with the federal government, prosecutors allege. They also discovered that he had a Heckler & Koch machine gun that wasn’t registered. But it was his phone that revealed a much broader web. There were WhatsApp messages between Fiorentino and a former Homeland Security analyst named Sean Reidpath Sullivan who had a side business importing guns from Europe. Prosecutors alleged that Fiorentino was buying imported guns through an alleged black-market network that Sullivan and Vickers had developed. Fiorentino has pleaded not guilty to several charges, including possession of the unregistered guns, dealing without a license and pandemic unemployment-assistance fraud. “Any transactions that he engaged in were through federally licensed dealers and anything they’re alleged to have been doing he was not aware of or involved in,” said Brian Russo, Fiorentino’s lawyer. Sullivan also pleaded not guilty to illegal-gun-importation charges in September. “We look forward to resolving in court the allegations that he unlawfully imported machine guns as part of his business,” said Jim Wyda, an attorney for Sullivan. “There is no evidence that Mr. Sullivan intended for firearms to get into the hands of dangerous people. And they didn’t.” |
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Originally Posted By PGT_0673: Sullivan was involved with B&T USA; He helped them on their USSOCOM award and believe at one time he was running B&T USA. His company was called Trident Rifles out of Gambrills, MD. Lots of gray market imports through Trident. Weren't they involved in the Hungarian SVD fiasco? |
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Originally Posted By Apec: Found it. Basically that amateur fucked up, and compromised LAV's network. I love the quote "highly regulated Short Barrel Rifle" which is almost a gray definition the ATF and most citizens do not (or rather have not) had a fine definition of. |
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Originally Posted By Apec: Found it. Basically that amateur fucked up, and compromised LAV's network. There was a father/son team in Texas who were breaking multiple laws regarding importation of improperly demilled kits from Ukraine. The kid died in a car accident but I'm convinced the ATF would have nailed him at some point. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Weren't they involved in the Hungarian SVD fiasco? “Hungarian” in air quotes. Trident and MAC were both involved but didn’t follow that one closely other than to know not to buy a rifle built using sanitized / embargoed components. The “T” in B&T is for Henri Thomet, or, the same guy in “War Dogs” who was moving all that sanitized Chinese ammo through Albania and using an American firm to fill USG contracts |
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Originally Posted By PGT_0673: “Hungarian” in air quotes. Trident and MAC were both involved but didn’t follow that one closely other than to know not to buy a rifle built using sanitized / embargoed components. The “T” in B&T is for Henri Thomet, or, the same guy in “War Dogs” who was moving all that sanitized Chinese ammo through Albania and using an American firm to fill USG contracts Originally Posted By PGT_0673: Originally Posted By AK-12: Weren't they involved in the Hungarian SVD fiasco? “Hungarian” in air quotes. Trident and MAC were both involved but didn’t follow that one closely other than to know not to buy a rifle built using sanitized / embargoed components. The “T” in B&T is for Henri Thomet, or, the same guy in “War Dogs” who was moving all that sanitized Chinese ammo through Albania and using an American firm to fill USG contracts So on this major thread tangent - I was unaware that was a "fiasco", beyond MAC 11th hour taking over the whole deal and selling them for a substantially higher mark-up than was initially expected, and "the list". where MAC was a bit of a jerk. but really, it was the FEG Hungarian guy during market exploration stage who was leading people on in a manner that was setting some pretty misleading expectations, more than anything. As far as I know, that deal did actually close and the units did get imported. They were likely Russian, or Russian parts - but ATF/USCustoms apparently did approve it I was unaware it was a fiasco though, beyond the pricing and distribution drama. Did I miss something? Honestly I stopped paying attention when the muzzle-device'less rifles went from a $2500 implied price, to a $10k price. |
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: I love the quote "highly regulated Short Barrel Rifle" which is almost a gray definition the ATF and most citizens do not (or rather have not) had a fine definition of. I wonder what exactly happened... whether that idiot sent a braced/unbraced pistol to a fudd FFL - whose first instinct was to call ATF, whether it was actually an unregistered SBR, or it was a f1/f4 SBR and it was sent/received incorrectly. |
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Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Ah! There was a father/son team in Texas who were breaking multiple laws regarding importation of improperly demilled kits from Ukraine. The kid died in a car accident but I'm convinced the ATF would have nailed him at some point. Interesting. I've heard of stuff coming from Ukraine mostly via rumors, but didn't hear of any specific names/involvement. |
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Originally Posted By Apec: Interesting. I've heard of stuff coming from Ukraine mostly via rumors, but didn't hear of any specific names/involvement. Someone i knew bought a krink kit from them and told them specifically how to ship it to avoid issues. They didn't listen and could have got him in a shit load of trouble |
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Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Yeah.....It was a shit show. Someone i knew bought a krink kit from them and told them specifically how to ship it to avoid issues. They didn't listen and could have got him in a shit load of trouble I hope it had enough core parts (front trunnion, bolt, possibly barrel) to be worth it. Russians and Ukrainians both have some awful customer service. |
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Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Loose lips sink ships. Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Originally Posted By KitBuilder: What is that specific way? Let's just say if you are serious about this and have genuine interest in getting unicorn kits/parts, you'll eventually find a hookup and learn how its done. But it's info that won't simply be handed out on a public forum on demand, nor are the people in that community going to work with anyone they can't vet or suspect trust issues. |
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Originally Posted By Apec: Let's just say if you are serious about this and have genuine interest in getting unicorn kits/parts, you'll eventually find a hookup and learn how its done. But it's info that won't simply be handed out on a public forum on demand, nor are the people in that community going to work with anyone they can't vet or suspect trust issues. I know how it was done. It's a risk. Both financial and criminal. Folks still do it though.. |
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Originally Posted By kanjen95: Inquring minds here wld love to know what youre saying you supposedly know, but John Brace would never break laws, it was his bread n butter. State facts. Show proof, saigatfman Originally Posted By kanjen95: Originally Posted By saigamanTX: Bingo. I know how it was done. It's a risk. Both financial and criminal. Folks still do it though.. Inquring minds here wld love to know what youre saying you supposedly know, but John Brace would never break laws, it was his bread n butter. State facts. Show proof, saigatfman The discussion you are quoting wasn't about braceman, it was a tangent into Russian parts kits. |
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Originally Posted By kanjen95: Inquring minds here wld love to know what youre saying you supposedly know, but John Brace would never break laws, it was his bread n butter. State facts. Show proof, saigatfmanTX! Just running your mouth Defamation lawsuits can be real, but *some* people dont seem to fear that. Why? Why come here and talk abt John Brace like he is some kind of lawbreaker? Fake news. I'm not referring to John in this case. John is an awesome dude and what is happening is insane. What I was referring to as someone mentioned Vickers and the importation of things under false pretense. was in the past I dunno 13 years deacts have been coming over from Eastern Europe. Under the ATF they are improperly demilled. Often just saw cut which the ATF hasn't viewed as acceptable since the 90s I believe. A lot of these kits were coming in from Ukraine and for a long time no one was the wiser. People got greedy and as a result the spotlight was put on the whole thing. 5 or 6 major dealers in Ukraine were arrested over it. Another issue was the country of origin. RUSSIAN KITS were automatically denied for importation even if it was a one off. The country of origin changes if it sits in a country more than a specified amount of time so Russian AK becomes Ukrainian AK. Now the DOJ ignored that and said "if it was made in Russia we will not allow a import to be approved. " Some kits have made it in legally but it's a lot of paperwork. So here comes the underground market where you could get Krinks, AK74s, AKMs etc etc from a dealer in Ukraine. Someone cuts it up and sends it over to you. Some make it...Some don't and these kits are not cheap. AGAIN! I am not saying John did this. But what I am doing is explaining what others have done in regards to kits and weapons that may have lead to the ATF getting more aggressive. So basically of you buy a deact overseas and have it cut up and shipped here you are violating multiple laws including ITAR which can carry stiff penalties. (WHAT JOHN WAS DOING WITH REWELDS ETC WAS 100% LEGAL) |
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Also. If the demil standards on a kit were saw cut when it was imported than the ATF shouldn't be able to change their minds on what are essentially grandfathered. The once a machine gun argument is complete bullshit. If Brace got in trouble for taking old front stubs and welding them to a semi auto 80% rear the weapon is a semi auto only and not a freaking machine gun! If that's what they are hitting him on that should be easy to throw out. |
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I just feel for him and his family, and wont speculate on the why because from what we do know, alot of what went on doesnt make sense, with the flashbanging digging seizing etc and apparently he wasnt even arrested- which would point to him being cleared of doing anything wrong, so why all that in the first place? Will this be the old "show me the man and i'll show you the crime" thing, and they just havent been able to find one and were overly confident that they would? I have never met John in person but we had a few conversations about retro AR stuff, and he knew because he is who he is, he couldnt even have a demilled rear stub laying around, even with the 3rd hole removed, without it possibly being construed as constructive possession. Just not a lawbreaker type! Much more like a dedicated father who takes his kids fishing frequently, has a full time job and a one of a kind side gig; all of which present him with alot to lose. ETA, I know! 100% legal. |
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Originally Posted By dusty3030: Here's where it gets sticky. There are finished rifles out there with the only markings on them are the original serial number, property of US gov't, Colt markings etc that were built from welded up de-milled magwell section and 80% rear. Some of those rifles have been publicly posted on this very forum (as well as youtube and other forums) with that attaboy mentions crediting the welder. How does a cop treat that rifle and what kind of shit storm could it cause? Total hypothetical but worth thinking about if you went this route lets say you have one of these clone builds in your vehicle and you had a couple of beers with lunch with your buds on your way back from the range. Get pulled over for speeding and the next thing you know you are taking a ride and your car get's inventoried before towing. AS far as they are concerned you have a M16. That's what it says on it. That's what comes back when they run it. They contact the FATF and or FFBI regarding the "stolen M16" they've recovered. Things spiral from there. Everything is still total speculation at this point but it is more likely something fell into the FATF's lap that started a shit show than I want to give them credit for pulling off some big operation on their own. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Military weapons are tracked from cradle to grave. If running the serial number can determine that a rifle was stolen from military stores, it can also determine that one was destroyed at the end of its servoce life as would be the case in this hypothetical. That is, if the cop is too stupid to tell from the lack of a 3rd pin hole that it is plainly not a machinegun in the first place. That asking for a lot when most cops probably know little beyond the basics of their duty firearm(s). I had a cop friend trying to tell me that (basically) NFA stuff is illegal for civilians to own.
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I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
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Originally Posted By Cycolac: That asking for a lot when most cops probably know little beyond the basics of their duty firearm(s). I had a cop friend trying to tell me that (basically) NFA stuff is illegal for civilians to own. Pretty crazy that "ignorance of the law is no excuse for not following it" for us, but it's fine for those tasked to enforce it. |
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If it doesn't have a fun switch pin hole etc it doesn't matter
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Originally Posted By saigamanTX: If it doesn't have a fun switch pin hole etc it doesn't matter Originally Posted By saigamanTX: I don't necessarily disagree with you. Get a cop/da/bureaucrat who wants to make a name for themselves and that could be a very costly, life altering, 'tell it to the judge'. They would probably win but still, the process is the punishment. |
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Originally Posted By Cycolac: I don't necessarily disagree with you. Get a cop/da/bureaucrat who wants to make a name for themselves and that could be a very costly, life altering, 'tell it to the judge'. They would probably win but still, the process is the punishment. Rewelds are nothing new..... |
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I’m going to put in my 2 cents and that is all I will contribute to this thread. There is no evidence of what the speculation is within this thread. No evidence for what everyone is getting their feathers ruffled for. With Colt being under new management, others have been hit with forgery and copyright charges. That we know. No evidence of 80% lowers anywhere I saw we let this thread move along before something gets said that shouldn’t or rumors that are not true spread that cannot be undone as this is the internet….. |
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Originally Posted By aeyoung: I’m going to put in my 2 cents and that is all I will contribute to this thread. There is no evidence of what the speculation is within this thread. No evidence for what everyone is getting their feathers ruffled for. With Colt being under new management, others have been hit with forgery and copyright charges. That we know. No evidence of 80% lowers anywhere I saw we let this thread move along before something gets said that shouldn’t or rumors that are not true spread that cannot be undone as this is the internet….. The Colt trademark matter to my understanding was buried years ago... John and a few others simply stopped offering replica engraving after receiving legal threats. No reason for that to resurface now, and it's not within the domain of the ATF either. |
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Yeah thats why ive come to call it pure unadulterated conjecture thread, its much more effective that way. The more things it might be, the more people have to worry about their dog. Some of the "could bes" mentioned here just show how many people are ignorant of the law. I vote this becomes a "could be" parody meme thread. If theyre still grasping for straws maybe we can help with the ideas. |
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Originally Posted By kanjen95: Yeah thats why ive come to call it pure unadulterated conjecture thread, its much more effective that way. The more things it might be, the more people have to worry about their dog. Some of the "could bes" mentioned here just show how many people are ignorant of the law. I vote this becomes a "could be" parody meme thread. If theyre still grasping for straws maybe we can help with the ideas. No meme threads. Didn't you get the memo?  I doubt they would dig up his yard and take all of his equipment for a trademark infringement issue. That's usually a civil issue. But, hard to tell nowadays. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Until Braceman, himself, posts what happened, the rest of this is horseshit until proven otherwise by Braceman. Unless his attorney is an idiot, that is unlikely to ever happen. His days on Arfcom are over. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Until Braceman, himself, posts what happened, the rest of this is horseshit until proven otherwise by Braceman. Or exhibited elsewhere. The ATF loves press releases on their site and if they take things they intend to keep it shows up on their section of the Gov. forfeiture website. Site is only up to early April stuff in some areas right now. |
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Originally Posted By kanjen95:  Originally Posted By kanjen95: Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner: Unless his attorney is an idiot, that is unlikely to ever happen. His days on Arfcom are over. What is your question? His attorney (unless an idiot) will tell him to say nothing about his case. To anyone, anywhere, particularly online. As to Arfcom specifically, he discussed his work on this forum. The work he is presumably in trouble for doing. Barring him ignoring his attorney he will never post here about this incident. Nor are we likely to ever see him post here again on any topic. |
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| May be, just not following how he would never post here again if he is found to have been "swatted" by some random turd, is guilty of nothing, and its his occupation. I am not arguing, im asking how you can so definitively say that, as if he has already been tried and convicted. |
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Originally Posted By kanjen95: May be, just not following how he would never post here again if he is found to have been "swatted" by some random turd, is guilty of nothing, and its his occupation. I am not arguing, im asking how you can so definitively say that, as if he has already been tried and convicted. That would be incorrect. I am speaking only of the process. Not innocence or guilt. Even being only vaguely aware of his work (not a retro AR person) I believe that he is not guilty of any crime related to the work he has discussed on this forum. His innocence or guilt has nothing to do with the (likely) advice of his attorney. There is nothing he could say that would make his legal position better. |
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Originally Posted By kanjen95: Ok, so you arent saying his days on arfcom are over, then. Even though thats what you said. You're being argumentative. I have no control over Arfcom or Braceman, but it is my personal belief that he will never post here again on advice of counsel. |
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Braceman raided by ATF. (Page 7 of 10)
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