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Posted: 7/25/2026 11:53:55 PM EDT
| I have a current production M 16 A1 and I’m interested in seeing if there is a way to create a national match top accuracy retro M 16 A1? |
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For some reason I feel like I'm going to regret answering this but here we go: -switch out the upper with a match conditioned upper -switch out the trigger group with a good two-stage trigger Start competing. Or are you referring to some sort of M16A1 NM rifle? Because that doesn't exist. (since you are asking in the "Retro Forum" and you say, " national match top accuracy retro M 16 A1?" ) |
Definitely possible.
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Originally Posted By airborne118: I have a current production M 16 A1 and I’m interested in seeing if there is a way to create a national match top accuracy retro M 16 A1? Try seeing how you perform with it first then upgrade it as you need to. I would go for a criterion core 20" and have someone like John Thomas pin an FSB on it. Add in a Colt branded Brownells scope if your competition involves shooting at distance and maybe a Geissele trigger for a crisper shooting experience. I don't think the free float conversion would help, it adds lots of weight to a light platform and makes it less manuverable. |
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Originally Posted By airborne118: Can you build a M-16A1 into a match rifle Not much of one. The 1/12 barrel is anti-match as it will not spin a heavy bullet. The maximum effective range of the m16a1 is 465m, its accuracy is ~5moa. At 450m with an accuracy of 5moa the cone of fire is 25". The m16a1 was built for suppressive fire and to wound the enemy. (see SCHV) |
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Not sure why you would want to modify a full-auto M16A1 to shoot matches but yes, it is possible. Disassemble the upper. Replace the standard 1-12 twist barrel with an A1-profile 1-7 or 1-8 twist barrel to stabilize heavier and longer match bullets. Use a National Match free-float tube. Rock River and White Oak carry these, or use a free-float quad rail (a Larue 12.0 or BCM). Modify your A1 handguards to retain the form. Replace the standard trigger with a two-stage Geissele Super Select Fire for match performance, retaining the ability to shoot full-auto. This is an A2 with modified A1 handguards: Attached File This is an A4 with 1-7 twist A1 barrel and Daniel Defense Omega quad rail: Attached File |
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Originally Posted By airborne118: Can you build a M-16A1 into a match rifle When you say “national match” you are implying an xtc high power event. Do you plan to whip out an A1 front sight tool to adjust elevation for each stage? It can be done but wow you are really going to stand out on the firing line during prep. No matter what accuracy improvements you make otherwise. And you’ll be running Kentucky windage the whole time because Stoner didn’t like the idea of the rifleman being able to easily adjust the rear sight. Go to some matches and you will learn how the AR platform evolved into what it is today. |
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Originally Posted By ckbk: ... Stoner didn’t like the idea of the rifleman being able to easily adjust the rear sight. Not true, the drum elevation sight was invented by Gene for the AR10. It was Colt and the Army that dumbed down the AR15 with fixed sights, it was easier to manufacture too. |
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To be national match competition worthy, the A1 pencil barrel will never cut it. A heavy HBAR barrel will alter the lightweight A1 fu. Limited A1 sight adjustment is also another obstacle. But if people in the past can shoot M1903/M1/M14/M1A with GI peep sights for competition, so could some good shooters do with A1 upper, just the elevation adjustment at the front sight is not very user friendly (in fact sucks) comparing to the other platform I mentioned. |
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Originally Posted By Carbinekid: Not true, the drum elevation sight was invented by Gene for the AR10. It was Colt and the Army that dumbed down the AR15 with fixed sights, it was easier to manufacture too. Originally Posted By Carbinekid: Originally Posted By ckbk: ... Stoner didn’t like the idea of the rifleman being able to easily adjust the rear sight. Not true, the drum elevation sight was invented by Gene for the AR10. It was Colt and the Army that dumbed down the AR15 with fixed sights, it was easier to manufacture too. Never mind that I was talking about windage too, and on that same AR10 his rear sight design needed tools to adjust windage. Back on topic, the service versions of 1903/M1/M14 rifles predating the early ARs had sights better suited for matches. |
well...
| I can’t stand the A2…..I had one in Iraq my first deployment and it was horrible…..I just love the A1…..I never said it was a FA, it’s a clone of course….. that’s the beauty about owning your own gun. You can do what you want with it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just would love to see how accurate I can get one of my retro clone A1s….. |
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Originally Posted By airborne118: I can’t stand the A2…..I had one in Iraq my first deployment and it was horrible…..I just love the A1…..I never said it was a FA, it’s a clone of course….. that’s the beauty about owning your own gun. You can do what you want with it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just would love to see how accurate I can get one of my retro clone A1s….. feed it some 52gr BTHP Sierra bullets, or even 55gr VMAX handloads it should shoot tight 100 yard groups, but it will never beat a match rifle at 600 |
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The Giesselle National Match trigger comes with two springs, one at 4&1/2 #'s and one at less then 4#'s. Be sure to install the 4.5# trigger. You can modify the rear site to 1/4" MOA clicks. I have two carry handles so modified but if you use the original upper? Best to purchase a White Oak complete upper for National Match. That really negates the use of your rifle as a complete AR. Compete with it as is or just put together a purpose built NM rifle. -Richard |
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