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MN, USA
Posted: 9/24/2024 2:09:12 PM EDT
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Afternoon, I’m considering a braced AR pistol in 5.56 for deer hunting this season due to shoulder and wrist issues. I understand 223 / 556 is not ideal for midsize game, as I’ve hunted for years with a 10mm pistol and know what a 200gr expanding bullet pushing 1,200 fps can do. My plan, if I were to do this would be to use my braced 11.5” AR with a Vortex crossfire II 4 12x44 and shooting sticks, only taking a head or neck shot. My question is the optic, is there any reason using my Vortex 4 12x44 would be a problem or bad idea? I understand that there are better optic options for this build, but it’s all I have for this season…Thoughts Thanks Ken |
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Might consider 7.62x39 if dedicated deer-hunting pistol. Have taken many over the years, always a one-shot kill with no need to shoot for the head/neck. It does damage out of all proportion to it's size, typically because it starts tumbling once inside. Never had a deer go more than a couple steps, they bleed out internally in just a few seconds. FYI HP's don't work any better than FMJ in this caliber, they don't expand any better. |
Smaug:"I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today". 1 dedicated marksman who held his ground and kept shooting:"Haha bow go twang!"
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For OP's stated purpose: Suggest utilizing a 10.5" barrel or shorter - this keeps the OAL (sans muzzle device and brace) under 26". 11.5" will be over 26". No need to invite Mr. Green Jeans into your life. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/624.712 Indicated scope will work fine. But, might run afoul of Mr. Green Jeans if he catches you shouldering the pistol when taking a shot. For calibers, suggest staying away from 5.56. Consider 6.8spcii, 6.5G, 7.62x39, etc. - more appropriate calibers for gopher state whitetails. 300BO works, but range is limited (100y) compared to the above options. Do not suggest neck/head shots. Do suggest broadside lung/heart shots. |
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Originally Posted By Oldgold: 300 blackout doesn’t kick at all. It’s my close range doe shooter with a suppressor. Yep. 220 grain will do the job. |
"According to Argonne National Laboratory, it takes 100 pounds of battery in an EV to go a distance achieved by only one pound of gasoline in an ICE vehicle"
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223 is plenty for deer, with a good expanding bullet. I use the 70 grain Speer semi-spitzer for my grandson's pistol. Velocity matters tho, so no shorter than 10.5" barrel and keep distances reasonable. That is a lot of scope for an AR pistol. MN DNR has said they will take their cues from AFT rules regarding braces. Now that AFT rules on braces are kaput, it is hard to say what DNR reg's will be. A rifle scope on a pistol may run afoul of their rules, as may shouldering the brace. Unless they are watching you from a few feet away when you take the shot, they have no way to prove shouldering the brace. The 300 BLK will also get the job done with 110's or 125's, and recoil is not a problem. |
| I agree with everyone else. 300 Blackout is the correct answer and you can keep the barrel shorter than a 5.56 without impacting performance. |
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Armchair posters aside, one year I killed five Kodiak Island blacktails with six shots out of my 16” AR-15 with handloaded Nosler 60-grain bullets. The first one I shot didn’t react to the initial shot so I sent another. It wasn’t needed. The rest died one shot each, just took a few seconds longer than with a larger rifle cartridge for them to drop. I used a 4x scope, shots out to 150 yards were easily accommodated. The OP’s setup will work just fine as long as he can hit his target. .. |
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My son's 6.5 Grendel doesn't suck at 12" Attached File Attached File |
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I used my 10.5 during the Missouri alternative hunting season it's late in the season and all of the road hunters / city hunters are gone !! I've taken 7 # deer now 2# Bucks 5# Does, farthest shot was around 100 yds average shot was around 40 yds . I use Sierra 65 SP handloads pushing them @ 2600 fps , most of them either drop in their tracks or do a death leap for 2 or 3 leaps and drop , farthest one was a double lung on a buck and he ran about 100yds and rolled . pick a good bullet @ fps around 2500 and up and good shot placement and you should be good to go , TS2   
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All Gave Some / Some Gave All
Maj. Richard Ayers
4-16-70
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a048.htm
Maj. Richard Ayers
4-16-70
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a048.htm
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Originally Posted By Waxman: I honestly laughed out loud at a 300BO,being devastating on deer.I have witnessed at least 10 shot with all sorts of AR pistol calibers from 300- 450 bushmaster, and everything in between.No deer ever killed with a 300 BO looked devastating, lol. My vote is 6.5 Grendel |
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Originally Posted By pite0007: For OP's stated purpose: Suggest utilizing a 10.5" barrel or shorter - this keeps the OAL (sans muzzle device and brace) under 26". 11.5" will be over 26". No need to invite Mr. Green Jeans into your life. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/624.712 Indicated scope will work fine. But, might run afoul of Mr. Green Jeans if he catches you shouldering the pistol when taking a shot. For calibers, suggest staying away from 5.56. Consider 6.8spcii, 6.5G, 7.62x39, etc. - more appropriate calibers for gopher state whitetails. 300BO works, but range is limited (100y) compared to the above options. Do not suggest neck/head shots. Do suggest broadside lung/heart shots. When I would measure, I always found that 11.5"'s were GTG, but a 12.5" was a pube too long (to say under 26"). It could come down to the individual buffer tubes used. |
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The problem with the Grendel is - the OP has wrist/shoulder issues, by which I assume that he means that he requires minimal recoil. The 5.56 supplies that, a Grendel or many .300 BLK loads do not do that. He isn’t asking for the best option, only if his will work. It will - with good shot placement. . |
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Originally Posted By pite0007: For OP's stated purpose: Suggest utilizing a 10.5" barrel or shorter - this keeps the OAL (sans muzzle device and brace) under 26". 11.5" will be over 26". No need to invite Mr. Green Jeans into your life. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/624.712 Indicated scope will work fine. But, might run afoul of Mr. Green Jeans if he catches you shouldering the pistol when taking a shot. For calibers, suggest staying away from 5.56. Consider 6.8spcii, 6.5G, 7.62x39, etc. - more appropriate calibers for gopher state whitetails. 300BO works, but range is limited (100y) compared to the above options. Do not suggest neck/head shots. Do suggest broadside lung/heart shots. Not correct. 300blk Supers like a 110 grain ballistic tip at 2350 FPS is good for much much more than 100 yards. --- Its the 200ish grain Subsonic rounds that are 100-150 yrd round. |
| Use a Spikes shorty buffer tube and you can take your barrel out to 12.5" without going over 26". That brings you into 6.5 Grendel territory or any 11.5" barrel. |
"Major, with the weapon shops out of the way we can introduce steadying laws that could not be flouted." -A.E. Van Vogt 1951
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I've killed 3 deer in the past 3 years with a 10.5" PSA AR pistol and 77gr TMKs - 2 mature bucks and a doe. Performance has been excellent despite the naysayers. Furthest shot 100yd, closest 30. All hae been soup on the inside. Shot placement is everything. |
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I took a doe earlier this season with a .300 BLK pistol. I shot a doe and a spike this week with a 5.56 pistol. All went down quickly or immediately with a neck, behind the shoulder, and back/spine shot. Ideally, I suggest the .300 BLK pistol with 110-125 supersonic ammo. It is more efficient and much quieter. The 5.56 pistol will certainly work. I would use a quick expanding varmint bullet, like a 55-60 gr Vmax, with the lower velocity of a shorter 5.56 barrel. |
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Originally Posted By AR-Admirer: I took a doe earlier this season with a .300 BLK pistol. I shot a doe and a spike this week with a 5.56 pistol. All went down quickly or immediately with a neck, behind the shoulder, and back/spine shot. Ideally, I suggest the .300 BLK pistol with 110-125 supersonic ammo. It is more efficient and much quieter. The 5.56 pistol will certainly work. I would use a quick expanding varmint bullet, like a 55-60 gr Vmax, with the lower velocity of a shorter 5.56 barrel. I'd avoid the Vmax as it is too lightly constructed but a traditional cup and core varmint bullet like the Hornady soft point is used by a lot of people. I load a lot of em but never used one on deer. The Vmax doesn't even exit on coyotes usually...even a big yote is lightly built compared to a small deer |
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Originally Posted By pite0007: For OP's stated purpose: Suggest utilizing a 10.5" barrel or shorter - this keeps the OAL (sans muzzle device and brace) under 26". 11.5" will be over 26". No need to invite Mr. Green Jeans into your life. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/624.712 Indicated scope will work fine. But, might run afoul of Mr. Green Jeans if he catches you shouldering the pistol when taking a shot. For calibers, suggest staying away from 5.56. Consider 6.8spcii, 6.5G, 7.62x39, etc. - more appropriate calibers for gopher state whitetails. 300BO works, but range is limited (100y) compared to the above options. Do not suggest neck/head shots. Do suggest broadside With a 12" Grendel or 458 SOCOM or 300 BLK or... Also... 2X red dot will get you past any "eye relief" restriction. |
"Major, with the weapon shops out of the way we can introduce steadying laws that could not be flouted." -A.E. Van Vogt 1951
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Originally Posted By Kenk: Afternoon, I’m considering a braced AR pistol in 5.56 for deer hunting this season due to shoulder and wrist issues. I understand 223 / 556 is not ideal for midsize game, as I’ve hunted for years with a 10mm pistol and know what a 200gr expanding bullet pushing 1,200 fps can do. My plan, if I were to do this would be to use my braced 11.5” AR with a Vortex crossfire II 4 12x44 and shooting sticks, only taking a head or neck shot. My question is the optic, is there any reason using my Vortex 4 12x44 would be a problem or bad idea? I understand that there are better optic options for this build, but it’s all I have for this season…Thoughts Thanks Ken I take it that what is being asked is relative to the optic and not the firearm. Will a 4-12x work on an 11.5? Yes. You can make it work, but being able to see that far will not turn your 300 yard rig into a long range rig. The ability to humanely dispatch game is going to be very limited due to the velocities you're going to be working with. Personally, I'd try to keep it at 150 yards and in using some sort of bonded or solid copper bullet. I have a similar rig, used for a similar purpose and mine has a 1-6x LPVO on top of it. |
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Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: I'd avoid the Vmax as it is too lightly constructed but a traditional cup and core varmint bullet like the Hornady soft point is used by a lot of people. I load a lot of em but never used one on deer. The Vmax doesn't even exit on coyotes usually...even a big yote is lightly built compared to a small deer At lower pistol barrel velocities, Vmax bullets perform more like a soft point. There are other bullets that probably perform better, The doe I shot in the neck last week had a very small exit wound showing the 60gr Vmax did not come apart quickly at lower 10.5” pistol barrel velocities. |
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Originally Posted By AR-Admirer: At lower pistol barrel velocities, Vmax bullets perform more like a soft point. There are other bullets that probably perform better, The doe I shot in the neck last week had a very small exit wound showing the 60gr Vmax did not come apart quickly at lower 10.5” pistol barrel velocities. This is true. I used to shoot a lot of specialty pistols, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 Win, 223 Rem, etc, and the Ballistic Tip/V-Max bullets performed very well at the short barrel velocities. Much more of a controlled expansion than the explosion that you get at 3k+ fps |
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