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Posted: 7/28/2024 10:54:14 AM EDT
Interesting D&H was the only bid.
And I sure would like to know how many mags that 10 million buys... https://www.guns.com/news/2024/07/25/d-and-h-wins-10-million-army-magazine-contract https://laststandonzombieisland.com/2024/07/26/army-still-buying-aluminum-m4-mags/ |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 11:30:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Arty8]
[#1]
The Wars are over, right? No one wants to make metal magazines anymore. Everyone used to make them in the past, Brownells even had a contract for M4 mags, I saw them in Iraq.
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Posted: 7/28/2024 11:34:57 AM EDT
[#2]
I would imagine that the M4 will stay around well after Big Army goes with the next big thing, filling the role the M1 carbine used to fill
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Posted: 7/28/2024 11:40:35 AM EDT
[#3]
A little strange, as the Enhanced Performance Magazine (NSN:1005-01-630-9508) from PM Soldier Lethality branch at Picatinny Arsenal has sent a Force-wide email out basically begging S-4s and Supply NCOs to request orders of these to clear the shelves…
Several years ago, as a Troop Commander, I was able to order a basic load of PMAGs for all of my Soldiers (over 600 magazines) under a similar program. I’ve asked our state guy to help get this going for all of our downtrace units. Nice to have options/spare magazines around for training… |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 12:31:54 PM EDT
[#4]
I suppose I must've missed a class or two as I was thinking that the DOD was onboard the Magpul train exclusively.
I like D&H mags. |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 12:36:24 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm a fan of D&H too. I hope I can score these in some sort of surplus deal for cheap some day.
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Posted: 7/28/2024 12:50:59 PM EDT
[#6]
" Before 1997, it was known as LaBelle"
I did not know this, Labelle was top tier back in the day. |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 1:20:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vague: I suppose I must've missed a class or two as I was thinking that the DOD was onboard the Magpul train exclusively. I like D&H mags. |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 2:29:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguzzi: " Before 1997, it was known as LaBelle" I did not know this, Labelle was top tier back in the day. Dates back to 1937. https://dhmetalstamping.com/our-history/#:~:text=The%20origins%20of%20D%26H%20Industries,Military%20and%20law%20enforcement%20agencies |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 3:25:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Make_Mine_Moxie: They could be for supplying other countries. DoD does a lot of that. It’s only a 2 year contract so I think that’s probably right. It ends before Magpul’s contract too. Surprising Magpul didn’t put in a bid though. The XM7 is also being fielded now so it will be interesting to see what they do in 2026 when all their AR mag contracts are up for renewal. |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 4:37:44 PM EDT
[#10]
The back and forth stuff/arguments between the gov. and LaBelle when they had a contract was interesting. I think it mentioned they made some for FN back at the same time frame. Can't find it on the net anymore. Used to pop up pretty easy with a search.
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Posted: 7/28/2024 5:02:37 PM EDT
[#11]
If Okay had lasted a little longer...
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/28/2024 5:21:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Any chance it would be for 20rd mags instead of 30s? Are 20rd mags even still issued?
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Posted: 7/28/2024 5:27:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 19Charlie278: A little strange, as the Enhanced Performance Magazine (NSN:1005-01-630-9508) from PM Soldier Lethality branch at Picatinny Arsenal has sent a Force-wide email out basically begging S-4s and Supply NCOs to request orders of these to clear the shelves… Several years ago, as a Troop Commander, I was able to order a basic load of PMAGs for all of my Soldiers (over 600 magazines) under a similar program. I’ve asked our state guy to help get this going for all of our downtrace units. Nice to have options/spare magazines around for training… Why do they want to clear the shelves? |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 5:30:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Does that mean all the D&H mags I have are now "clone correct"?!
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/28/2024 5:31:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Great mags. Cool that they're now "official."
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USA
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Posted: 7/28/2024 9:41:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MallNinja531: Does that mean all the D&H mags I have are now "clone correct"?! Yes
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Posted: 7/29/2024 9:03:29 PM EDT
[#17]
I'll be interested to see if D&H will incorporate the same improvements found in the EPM pattern.
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USA
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Posted: 7/29/2024 9:12:17 PM EDT
[#18]
That must be about 1-2 million mags....
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gtsteve03: Any chance it would be for 20rd mags instead of 30s? Are 20rd mags even still issued? Those went away with Vietnam but lingered along in arms room boxes till purged. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:40:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC: Why do they want to clear the shelves? I will suggest that IF every company and Bn level supply NCO did a honest inventory of on hand new unissued magazines (old legacy gray ones, new Brown enhanced ones and PMAGS) there would be enough on hand now to refit every Soldier issued a M4. Cases of new mags linger in almost every supply room and consolidated arms room, yet shitty mags are always issued for weapons qual. |
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Posted: 8/1/2024 2:50:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11b4v]
[#21]
Weird coincidence. My USAR unit conducted M4 range this past Tuesday, and lo and behold, someone mixed their personal black DH mag in with one of our range mag boxes.
I wasn’t cognizant of the previously mentioned “laser welded” mag until now, holding this imposter in my hand. This one is noticeably thinner than the EPM; Colt and FN magwells are loose, and again, I’m wondering if they will adjust their tooling to the newer EPM spec or just roll out what their currently producing for the civ market.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 11:42:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11b4v: Weird coincidence. My USAR unit conducted M4 range this past Tuesday, and lo and behold, someone mixed their personal black DH mag in with one of our range mag boxes. I wasn’t cognizant of the previously mentioned “laser welded” mag until now, holding this imposter in my hand. This one is noticeably thinner than the EPM; Colt and FN magwells are loose, and again, I’m wondering if they will adjust their tooling to the newer EPM spec or just roll out what their currently producing for the civ market. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8143_jpeg-3282690.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8144_jpeg-3282694.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8145_jpeg-3282696.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8146_jpeg-3282699.JPG Although it is thinner, do you think it will hold up over time? |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 12:27:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottrh2: Those went away with Vietnam but lingered along in arms room boxes till purged. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottrh2: Originally Posted By gtsteve03: Any chance it would be for 20rd mags instead of 30s? Are 20rd mags even still issued? Those went away with Vietnam but lingered along in arms room boxes till purged. IIRC, a 20 round mag is still issued for one of the M4s on the Apache, though my memory is fuzzy on that from a decade ago. |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 11:22:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bolt241: Although it is thinner, do you think it will hold up over time? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bolt241: Originally Posted By 11b4v: Weird coincidence. My USAR unit conducted M4 range this past Tuesday, and lo and behold, someone mixed their personal black DH mag in with one of our range mag boxes. I wasn’t cognizant of the previously mentioned “laser welded” mag until now, holding this imposter in my hand. This one is noticeably thinner than the EPM; Colt and FN magwells are loose, and again, I’m wondering if they will adjust their tooling to the newer EPM spec or just roll out what their currently producing for the civ market. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8143_jpeg-3282690.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8144_jpeg-3282694.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8145_jpeg-3282696.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8146_jpeg-3282699.JPG Although it is thinner, do you think it will hold up over time? It would be interesting to take the guts out of both and weigh the mag bodies by themselves to see how much aluminum D&H is using vs. other established makers. |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 11:30:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vague: I suppose I must've missed a class or two as I was thinking that the DOD was onboard the Magpul train exclusively. I like D&H mags. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 11:50:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11b4v: Weird coincidence. My USAR unit conducted M4 range this past Tuesday, and lo and behold, someone mixed their personal black DH mag in with one of our range mag boxes. I wasn’t cognizant of the previously mentioned “laser welded” mag until now, holding this imposter in my hand. This one is noticeably thinner than the EPM; Colt and FN magwells are loose, and again, I’m wondering if they will adjust their tooling to the newer EPM spec or just roll out what their currently producing for the civ market. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8143_jpeg-3282690.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8144_jpeg-3282694.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8145_jpeg-3282696.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8146_jpeg-3282699.JPG Interesting. Another poster in the mag thread mentioned the D&H mags were thinner. I'm going to order 10 to use as range mags. |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 12:11:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Does the military still consider them disposable?
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Posted: 8/30/2024 4:46:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11b4v: I'll be interested to see if D&H will incorporate the same improvements found in the EPM pattern. |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 1:57:09 PM EDT
[#29]
These will be EPMs?
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Posted: 8/31/2024 2:14:23 PM EDT
[#30]
My D&H mags have been good.
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Posted: 9/21/2024 7:18:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Regarding the thickness of the mags in question as compared to the thickness of
other manufacturers mags, it can go both ways. It comes down to how each stamping die for the respective manufacturer was designed. If done properly, the die would have been designed & built to the middle of the TDP tolerance range for the mag (outside dimensions). This would effect mag insertion ability & overall "slop" once jammed in place. Did the "thinner" mag mfg'er just switch to a different gauge of AL & simply run the thinner gauge material in the original stamping die? Maybe; maybe not. Doing so would have an effect on mag catch engagement etc etc..... Not something a smart manufacturer would do. All of the corner bends would be off as well, possibly placing many dimensions at the edge of the tolerance range or even outside of it. Some of the interior dimensions could get by with being looser or out of range & the mag would probably have a better chance of acceptable function. But that is not the correct way to do it. Design the die for the targeted gauge thickness, & stick to it. You suddenly want to change to a thinner gauge? Tough sh*t..... Design a different die for that new gauge of material & build it & run it. It would not surprise me to learn that some middle management bean counter forced a gauge change in an attempt to save some money, and anyone who questioned the decision got ignored or shouted down. |
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Posted: 9/23/2024 12:49:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 50cal]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottrh2: Those went away with Vietnam but lingered along in arms room boxes till purged. We had a connex box in our company area at Bragg that was about 3/4 filled with 18"x18"x18" boxes of Vietnam era 20's and the old green follower 30's. This was the early '80s. I have around 30 or 40 20's with the alloy follower from back then. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2024 2:42:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack_Rackham: My D&H mags have been good. Mine have been as well. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 7:04:44 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter: I still prefer the old standard USGI Mag as well. I have several Magpuls, but I rarely go to them when I'm reaching for Mags. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter: Originally Posted By Vague: I suppose I must've missed a class or two as I was thinking that the DOD was onboard the Magpul train exclusively. I like D&H mags. Same here. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2024 9:45:06 AM EDT
[#35]
I’ve bought a new dozen d&h mags. Never gotten a bad one.
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Posted: 9/29/2024 9:57:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11b4v: Weird coincidence. My USAR unit conducted M4 range this past Tuesday, and lo and behold, someone mixed their personal black DH mag in with one of our range mag boxes. I wasn't cognizant of the previously mentioned "laser welded" mag until now, holding this imposter in my hand. This one is noticeably thinner than the EPM; Colt and FN magwells are loose, and again, I'm wondering if they will adjust their tooling to the newer EPM spec or just roll out what their currently producing for the civ market. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8143_jpeg-3282690.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8144_jpeg-3282694.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8145_jpeg-3282696.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/778/IMG_8146_jpeg-3282699.JPG |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2024 10:21:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: M4BlackRifle]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jebsofnga: Regarding the thickness of the mags in question as compared to the thickness of other manufacturers mags .......... Are you just making up scenarios, or do you have some dimensional data? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/30/2024 11:22:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: watgar]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack_Rackham: My D&H mags have been good. Same here. *Updated* Out of curiosity, I weighed some different mags. (Springs and followers were removed, just the mag bodies by themselves): D&H, 2016, spot welded (blk) = 2.9 oz D&H, 2024, laser welded (blk) = 2.9 oz Okay, 2021, spot welded (blk) = 2.8 oz Okay, 2021, spot welded (grey) = 2.8 oz EPM, 2019, spot welded, (tan) = 2.8 - 2.9 oz What does it mean? I don't know. They all work fine. |
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Posted: 10/4/2024 8:30:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jebsofnga]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4BlackRifle: Are you just making up scenarios, or do you have some dimensional data? Getting some calipers or a wall/tubing micrometer & measuring the mags that were posted above would be the only way to tell for certain. Did the poster measure the mags? I don't know. We could always ask him to make sure. Do I have the dimensional data on those mags? No. Am I making up scenarios? No, it has happened before in the Die industry, which covers a wide swath of things used in different applications. Did it happen on the mags in question? Uncertain at this point. Comparative data based off of actual measurements is needed. Could it have happened on the mags in question? That is possible. Edit: Looks like weights were posted above; The differences in weight could easily be explained by less/more spot welding material loss. Using different thicknesses of material would show a greater weight disparity between the mags. |
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Posted: 10/7/2024 1:14:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Another D&H fan. I bought some mags on sale from PSA, and they were made by D&H
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MN, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2024 2:27:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By watgar: *Updated* Out of curiosity, I weighed some different mags. (Springs and followers were removed, just the mag bodies by themselves): D&H, 2016, spot welded (blk) = 2.9 oz D&H, 2024, laser welded (blk) = 2.9 oz Okay, 2021, spot welded (blk) = 2.8 oz Okay, 2021, spot welded (grey) = 2.8 oz EPM, 2019, spot welded, (tan) = 2.8 - 2.9 oz What does it mean? I don't know. They all work fine. Material from the mill can vary as much as +/- 5% in thickness and still be considered as meeting the materiel thickness call-out on a print. Spot welding and laser welding, done correctly, neither adds nor subtracts base metal. I have some really old GI mags, including Adventureline, a Sanchez, and a couple of Coopers, but I would have to drag them to work to weigh them. D&H has manufactured mags for lots of companies and nobody has ever complained about receiving a thin one. |
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Posted: 10/9/2024 3:27:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Reminds me of something that happened to me a few years back, but a different issue.
I bought 10 Aluminum Brownells 20 rnd mags. When doing a function test on them, they would not feed a round. I tried them on 3 different lowers & they would not feed on any of them. Brownells was good to their word & refunded me full price - I liked that!  I could probably buy the same type mags again from Brownells this month & not have a single problem with any of them functioning. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2024 7:11:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Picked up a couple today compared to my okay they are very similar date stamp and all.
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Posted: 10/19/2024 7:49:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15robert: Picked up a couple today compared to my okay they are very similar date stamp and all. Link?!?!?! |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2024 11:20:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoGo: Link?!?!?! they were at a local store near me in az.they dont sell online i as there a couple weeks ago they had alot yesterday just a few in bin left. |
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Posted: 10/20/2024 12:33:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GoGo]
[#46]
Pix would be neat if you have the time. I imagine they will start showing up on the secondary market anytime.
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Posted: 10/20/2024 12:39:35 PM EDT
[#47]
I was blessed to get some HK Maritime magazines while I was in thanks to a unit that was leaving.
Best magazines I have now and I wasn't authorized to turn them in so I brought them home. Still have 8 of those magazines. heavy but reliable. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2024 6:25:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoGo: Pix would be neat if you have the time. I imagine they will start showing up on the secondary market anytime. I’m leaving in wrap til I decide what to do with them. Have plenty of okay and colt. But from seeing then they appear to be everything of okay wouldn’t hesitate to buy more. Went by today got that last three of them. They are stamped 2021 though which I found odd. But like said they look very good. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2024 9:12:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoGo: Pix would be neat if you have the time. I imagine they will start showing up on the secondary market anytime. I picked up some 20 round mags that are new D&H production from a local store, the 30 rounder’s were sold out. I Have some older spot welded D&H from 06’-12’. If I can get logged in to my Imgur account I’ll post some comparison pictures of the old and new D&H with some 2020 okay mags. |
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