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Posted: 9/18/2025 11:25:29 PM EDT
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Looks like LMT had to do a bit of warranty work: https://news.err.ee/1609794183/all-of-estonia-s-us-made-assault-rifles-undergo-warranty-repairs |
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Quoted: Interesting. I have owned several LMT MWS .308 rifles. Every single one on them has functioned perfectly and accurately. Maybe they shouldn’t have tried to reinvent the wheel and stuck with a DI system instead of gas. From what I understand the main reason they went with the LMT rifles was because of safety concerns of the gas coming back to their faces. Apparently the LMT rifles are all green. |
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Estonian Defense Forces (EDF) Staff Officer Mario Nõlvak told ERR that initially the problem occurred in less than 10 percent of weapons. "The gas chamber was unable to hold the gas cap in place at the moment of firing, and the gas cap flew off," Nõlvak explained. Sounds like poor design and/or execution. Even a garbage can AK can manage to hold together while cycling it's piston. |
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"If an automatic rifle misses the target by 30 centimeters from 300 meters away, then for a precision rifle it's an absolute nightmare. It in no way meets the accuracy requirements set in the procurement terms," Change my mind. |
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Quoted: Piston guns will never be as accurate as a good direct impingement AR. It is a solution in search of a problem and it's a result of nothing but marketing. Change my mind. The HK417 won the new M110/SASS contract Piston guns can be both accurate & precise Nobody chooses an auto gun for the utmost of either |
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LMT is a good company. Not a flawless company (those don't exist), but a good one. How can I tell? From the article: Katri Raudsepp, deputy director general of the Estonian Center for Defense Investments, said that the gas blocks were replaced on all weapons. "They not only replaced the weapons in which these problems occurred, but the entire batch that was delivered to us," Raudsepp said. "The warranty work is complete, each weapon has been thoroughly inspected, and the problematic components have been replaced. The weapons are back in use with the Defense Forces," added Raudsepp. It's not about making no mistakes, which is impossible. It's about making as few mistakes as possible and standing by your product if a mistake does crop up. Respect for LMT increased based on the above. |
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Quoted: The HK417 won the new M110/SASS contract Piston guns can be both accurate & precise Nobody chooses an auto gun for the utmost of either Correct, but the M110A1 has essentially be emasculated into a DMR role wearing a 1-6 LPVO. I'm not sure there's been a reason given but considering SOCOM's continued procurement of KAC rifles and the MRGG contract being won by Geissele and LMT I'd say the HK417 has fallen out of favor. |
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Quoted: LMT is a good company. Not a flawless company (those don't exist), but a good one. How can I tell? From the article: It's not about making no mistakes, which is impossible. It's about making as few mistakes as possible and standing by your product if a mistake does crop up. Respect for LMT increased based on the above. They also had massive issues with the New Zealand contract. Not to mention all of the QC issues that have reported by users on this forum and others. The idea and design of the MRP chassis really impresses me, and I'd love a problem-free SPECWAR, but LMT's inability to manufacture parts with high QC is well documented by their civilian and now military customers. |
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Quoted: Piston guns will never be as accurate as a good direct impingement AR. It is a solution in search of a problem and it's a result of nothing but marketing. Change my mind. Europeans have undying fealty to pistons for some reason. I think the British and maybe the Finnish are the only ones to break this trend. |
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Quoted: Europeans have undying fealty to pistons for some reason. I think the British and maybe the Finnish are the only ones to break this trend. The Vietnam era issues with M16 performance under adverse conditions vs the AK must have cemented the distrust for DI in their minds. Also, I thought the whole 416/Scar thing was due to the m4 reliability in sandy environments gave DI another black eye. Also, piston guns have the reputation for requiring less frequent and diligent cleaning which matters when you have |
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Quoted: The Vietnam era issues with M16 performance under adverse conditions vs the AK must have cemented the distrust for DI in their minds. Also, I thought the whole 416/Scar thing was due to the m4 reliability in sandy environments gave DI another black eye. Also, piston guns have the reputation for requiring less frequent and diligent cleaning which matters when you have Quoted: Quoted: Europeans have undying fealty to pistons for some reason. I think the British and maybe the Finnish are the only ones to break this trend. The Vietnam era issues with M16 performance under adverse conditions vs the AK must have cemented the distrust for DI in their minds. Also, I thought the whole 416/Scar thing was due to the m4 reliability in sandy environments gave DI another black eye. Also, piston guns have the reputation for requiring less frequent and diligent cleaning which matters when you have The biggest problem in Viet Nam with the DI M16 wasn't adverse conditions, it was stick vs ball powder. when the platform was used with the powder that didn't foul the gas tube immediately, it was perfectly reliable. |
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Quoted: Correct, but the M110A1 has essentially be emasculated into a DMR role wearing a 1-6 LPVO. I'm not sure there's been a reason given but considering SOCOM's continued procurement of KAC rifles and the MRGG contract being won by Geissele and LMT I'd say the HK417 has fallen out of favor. It's also unclear what the point of the M110A1 is at all when the M7 fires a flatter shooting, hotter round and comes with a much more capable optic system. |
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Quoted: Piston guns will never be as accurate as a good direct impingement AR. It is a solution in search of a problem and it's a result of nothing but marketing. Change my mind. The SG 55X series is close! As accurate, yes....as easy to shoot accurately, not quite. |
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I'm sure LMT can correct the problems, and I hope all get back on track regarding these rifles. Quoted: Piston guns will never be as accurate as a good direct impingement AR. It is a solution in search of a problem and it's a result of nothing but marketing. Change my mind. My piston ARs shoot the same groups they did with a gas tube as they do now with a gas piston. All three of my XCRs will hang with any good DI AR. Solution in search of a problem? I would argue that's what DI/internal piston is. Quoted: It's also unclear what the point of the M110A1 is at all when the M7 fires a flatter shooting, hotter round and comes with a much more capable optic system. Given the M7's issues, having a proven system available seems wise. |
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Quoted: No doubt about it. But fixing/replacing all rifles delivered in such a short period of time must be a new record… Quoted: Quoted: Colt has had to do warranty repair too, nothing new. No doubt about it. But fixing/replacing all rifles delivered in such a short period of time must be a new record… They did it as a simple precaution. Per the article, very few were actually impacted. It's a "good faith" gesture. ETA: The issues with the 308 though isn't surprising. Do believe this is their first time doing an external piston 308 setup. Teething issues are to be expected. |
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I have never been impressed by LMT’s short stroke piston system. I find it hard to believe their system beat out HK’s 416/417 and the FN SCAR Mk 16/17 in testing. With the new “flow through” suppressor designs, the Estonians should have just stuck with a DI AR pattern rifle. LMT MWS with DI operating systems would have served them quite well. |
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Quoted: Piston guns will never be as accurate as a good direct impingement AR. It is a solution in search of a problem and it's a result of nothing but marketing. Change my mind. My long stroke piston PWS in .223 Wylde is more accurate than my BCM with the same ammo. Same goes for my .308 PWS vs my friend's DI .308 |
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Quoted: It's also unclear what the point of the M110A1 is at all when the M7 fires a flatter shooting, hotter round and comes with a much more capable optic system. The m7 is hot garbage. Truly. And the optic sends off an electromagnetic beacon far and wide. It’s going to go the way of the SCAR-L. Once the initial orders are in, it will see no more. |
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Quoted: The biggest problem in Viet Nam with the DI M16 wasn't adverse conditions, it was stick vs ball powder. when the platform was used with the powder that didn't foul the gas tube immediately, it was perfectly reliable. Also the lack of a chrome lined barrel |
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Quoted: Also the lack of a chrome lined barrel Quoted: Quoted: The biggest problem in Viet Nam with the DI M16 wasn't adverse conditions, it was stick vs ball powder. when the platform was used with the powder that didn't foul the gas tube immediately, it was perfectly reliable. Also the lack of a chrome lined barrel And lack of cleaning kits |
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