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FRT Visibility and Related AR Market Tracking (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/5/2025 9:34:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mPisi][Edited]
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I saw this sign at a local sales market (next post), unfortunately I did not get a chance to investigate. A flea market gun store is not an average gun store, but it's obvious that FRTs and related technologies are filtering out to the general public. Legality could be affected at the state level, and there is still the RB patent cases affecting the market. If anything in .22s or handguns gets to market legally, then it would only get more common. How will this increasing visibility affect them and similar technologies, and also competitors like binary triggers and real MGs? I broke things into categories so we can keep track.
Used ones also high, mid-$400s in the EE. Update 8/8/25: Official RB now $450 (10% reduction) Update 12/2025: Partisan sets new price limit $300? Update 2/2026: EE asking priced holding north of $400 Used ones at or close to the old $400 new price from RB. Probably will settle in $50 less than the 3-position price. Edit: December 2025 price $250 in EE 3D-printed ones <$50 for shop-made ones, and pennies for printing your own. Update 9/20 - $200 from AS Systems seems like the main choice. 3-position unknown but maybe $300ish until abundance, or just replacing the 2-position at mid $250s? Franklin were originally $350ish, now $229 from PSA. Used ones mid-$150s in the EE. Has there been any movement in the RDIAS market, compared to the rest of the NFA FA market (i.e., maybe all is up but RDIAS at a lower rate?). Cheapest RR on Reuben's site is $30k. |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Attached File |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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I sent a buddy the Super Safety file and asked him to print me a couple. 6 cents worth of material. |
"A mass production economy can neither be created nor sustained
without a leveled population, one conditioned to mass habits, mass tastes, mass enthusiasms,
predictable mass behaviors." John Gatto
without a leveled population, one conditioned to mass habits, mass tastes, mass enthusiasms,
predictable mass behaviors." John Gatto
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Rare Breed did fight hard... and risked a lot... but they were protecting themselves and their property. I am tempted to get one of their 3 position... but there are other companies with 3 positions based off the SS that seem to work well too. anyone know if the Rare breed 3 position is still eating its spring, and needs to be filed to make it work without destroying the spring? |
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I just read yesterday that RB has sued the makers of the Super Selektor, so anyone who ordered one and is waiting may be in for a long wait, if they ever get it. RB claims they already had a patent on that design/style (they never made them available as the ATF got on them before they did). Some sources say a patent existed before RB ever created their first FRT, and RB claims to have purchased that other patent. I understand that RB agreed as part of the DOJ case intervention that they would aggressively protect their patents against companies copying their stuff, or something along those lines. That just seems odd to me why DOJ would make that specific. I would think it would naturally be up to the company, and expected, they would protect their IP. It's been a while since the hoopla started with RB, but if memory serves, didn't the guy initially go into proceedings acting as his own lawyer and ended up screwing himself? I don't know all the exact details in this muddied mess, but it sure seems the FRT market is going to be a bit rocky till some of this settles out. I'd love to get a 3-position, but I'm not paying $500+ for one. I'll run my binary until all this stuff is settled or someone can offer one (without getting sued) at a reasonable price. ETA: Pending further details, Atrius also made drop in FRT's (not the safety style) and it seems that's the one RB is after? Atrius' site shows the "regular" FRT is no longer available, but they are still selling what they've deemed the "Forced Reset Safety" (FRS). https://www.performancetriggers.com/atrius-triggers-select-fire-assisted-reset-trigger-for-ar15-platform.html |
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Originally Posted By EDL: "Forced Reset Safety" (FRS) Originally Posted By EDL: "Forced Reset Safety" (FRS) Thank you for noting this name, I will start using it for all Super Safety devices, whether slide selector or normal. Originally Posted By Vague: Is the DTT 3 position identical to RareBreed? I managed to get a DTT headed this direction and wasn't sure. Originally Posted By BDA: anyone know if the Rare breed 3 position is still eating its spring, and needs to be filed to make it work without destroying the spring? AFAIK there is no RB 3-position marketed so far. They are selling DTT 3-positions that they got in their real or fake settlement with DTT. I don't believe there have been any reports of spring problems so far. Tech info: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/FRT-15L3-these-things-are-awesome/5-2777667/ |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Originally Posted By mPisi: Thank you for noting this name, I will start using it for all Super Safety devices, whether slide selector or normal. AFAIK there is no RB 3-position marketed so far. They are selling DTT 3-positions that they got in their real or fake settlement with DTT. I don't believe there have been any reports of spring problems so far. Tech info: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/FRT-15L3-these-things-are-awesome/5-2777667/ I think in another thread some are saying the DTT is RB, that RB sells them there under a different name (to get around the lawsuit stuff)? Who knows at this point, it's all a bit of a shitshow at this point. Yeah, that FRS thing is what Altrius is calling theirs. I guess it makes sense. |
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Originally Posted By EDL: I think in another thread some are saying the DTT is RB, that RB sells them there under a different name (to get around the lawsuit stuff)? Who knows at this point, it's all a bit of a shitshow at this point. Yeah, that FRS thing is what Altrius is calling theirs. I guess it makes sense. Rarebreed got the DDT triggers as part of the lawsuits, same as them selling the WOT years ago. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. IG @jimstagramguns
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Another reputable Cash and Carry Location has been added to the ARIZONA REGULATOR Dealer Roster You can now walk in and buy one from @TonyRumore TROMIX CORP Inola, OK 74036 R/S J.D. |
No Quarter. ARIZONAREGULATOR.COM
“A Law repugnant to the Constitution is void.” Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803) -
Garland V. Cargill 602 U.S. __ , 7 (2024) - NYSRPA v. Bruen, 597 U.S. ___ (2022)
“A Law repugnant to the Constitution is void.” Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803) -
Garland V. Cargill 602 U.S. __ , 7 (2024) - NYSRPA v. Bruen, 597 U.S. ___ (2022)
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Originally Posted By 01ZULU: Another reputable Cash and Carry Location has been added to the ARIZONA REGULATOR Dealer Roster To match up with this thread, if you start selling a 3-position, what will be its price? Will you still sell the 2-position and will its price decrease? |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Originally Posted By Positronic: is this 'Rare Breed' manufacture, or confiscated knock off ? yes.jpg |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Heavy buffers are becoming hard to find? https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/130-791530/ |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Originally Posted By BDA: Rare Breed did fight hard... and risked a lot... but they were protecting themselves and their property. I am tempted to get one of their 3 position... but there are other companies with 3 positions based off the SS that seem to work well too. anyone know if the Rare breed 3 position is still eating its spring, and needs to be filed to make it work without destroying the spring? You do you but I get some real shyster vibes from RB. They bought a patent, created overly broad additional patents, made a (possible non-legit) deal with the .Gov, went on TFB and to me, weren't able to help their position, now are suing any/everyone even other types of FRT that seemingly operate on different principals. That's my opinion. Lots of folks here say FRB, they 'say' they spent a lot of money, their lawyer used to be council for a lefty organization. My thoughts are they saw an opening in the FRT world, bought what they thought was a legit patent, reworked it a bit, now trying to make $$. Watch the TFB interview, even with the softball questions, the answers were pretty meh... |
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Updated to show the $200 AS Desigan ARC-Fire FRS with conventional safety. Not seeing much price movement really. Heard that local gun shows had FRS-types available from a couple vendors, but not cassette FRTs. |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Originally Posted By mPisi: I saw this sign at a local sales market (next post), unfortunately I did not get a chance to investigate. A flea market gun store is not an average gun store, but it's obvious that FRTs and related technologies are filtering out to the general public. Legality could be affected at the state level, and there is still the RB patent cases affecting the market. If anything in .22s or handguns gets to market legally, then it would only get more common. How will this increasing visibility affect them and similar technologies, and also competitors like binary triggers and real MGs? I broke things into categories so we can keep track.
Used ones also high, mid-$400s in the EE. Update 8/8/25: Official RB now $450 (10% reduction) Used ones at or close to the old $400 new price from RB. Probably will settle in $50 less than the 3-position price. 3D-printed ones <$50 for shop-made ones, and pennies for printing your own. Update 9/20 - $200 from AS Systems seems like the main choice. 3-position unknown but maybe $300ish until abundance, or just replacing the 2-position at mid $250s? Franklin were originally $350ish, now $229 from PSA. Used ones mid-$150s in the EE. Has there been any movement in the RDIAS market, compared to the rest of the NFA FA market (i.e., maybe all is up but RDIAS at a lower rate?). Cheapest RR on Reuben's site is $30k. One thing I wish the market was tracking is sales . . . It would come in handy to have actual numbers for the modern iteration of the "in common use" phrase from Miller. As modern court cases interpret that phrase, it is a test requiring about three quarters of a million or more, and, in addition, not many states making them illegal, such as was the case in Caetano with stun guns. I do not think this should be how one reads Miller, but we are stuck with it for now, and sales figures would be helpful to sue in a state that bans forced reset triggers (before too many of them ban it for courts to consider them "lawful purposes" and so on). |
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Originally Posted By HKH: Battle hawk armory just began selling preorders of the Atrius. That's the first retailer I've seen. The battle hawk bundle for $250 with a drop in triggers looks to be a good deal. I think it's a rebadged Rise trigger. |
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I’m betting there are at least 100k frts (not counting the tx 22 and Glock things in circulation currently. Looking at atrius order fulfillment, I bet they’ve distributed 40k or more seeing how many were ordered during the initial 6k “order” launch. It didn’t have a cap on how many you could order so that’s what took them so long. They may have sent out 20-30k or more on the first wave once fulfilled. I placed two subsequent orders and got the 6 more. How many others did that on the recent waves? Then the super safety’s from DN and GMR along with the 3d printers going brrrrrrr. Add in how many those fags in Wichita Falls have sold and now the ARC is coming online. I’d say the # of FRTs in this country will be at 250k by Christmas. And that’s not counting those little chunks of stainless that any of us can produce for the pistols. None of this takes into account the smaller mfgs like 144.1 who are fighting hard and innovating to get into the game on a large scale. I hate to break it to the knuckleheads that want these banned, but I think the horses are already out of the barn. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: The battle hawk bundle for $250 with a drop in triggers looks to be a good deal. I think it's a rebadged Rise trigger. Per the site ... yes, rebadged RISE. And ... qued up for a flat trigger, NON ambi safety. Was surprised a couple days ago that Atrius did not have an open order window for the NON Ambi. |
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Originally Posted By dredeagle: Per the site ... yes, rebadged RISE. And ... qued up for a flat trigger, NON ambi safety. Was surprised a couple days ago that Atrius did not have an open order window for the NON Ambi. |
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost: I ordered it. Rise triggers feel pretty good. Hopefully they don't take too long to deliver. We will see. Per description - the safety's show to be a presale. But, no presale verbage on the bundle descriptions. At checkout, the claim is 7 days to ship on the outside with 2-3 day target. But, I expect I reviewed more thoroughly than their site developer. I won't get antsy till mid October. I will say that the terms and conditions you agree to are exhausting. |
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Originally Posted By dredeagle: We will see. Per description - the safety's show to be a presale. But, no presale verbage on the bundle descriptions. At checkout, the claim is 7 days to ship on the outside with 2-3 day target. But, I expect I reviewed more thoroughly than their site developer. I won't get antsy till mid October. I will say that the terms and conditions you agree to are exhausting. Currently I'm waiting on two Atrius safeties from Wise Arms, one from Atrius and one from Blackhawk. Hopefully the two ARC safeties I ordered in the first few minutes they went live will ship in the next week. |
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What the biggest or most established vendor/distributor we've seen selling anything interesting? Here was Atlantic Firearms with FRS for AR and FRT for AK, which I don't know if they can be called big but they've been around a long time. https://atlanticfirearms.com/ar15-frt-super-safety- |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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GD thread about everyone in the countryside having FRTs or other faux-auto. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Invasion-of-the-FRTs/5-2822007/ |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
| Rare Breed 3-pos in stock for $450 on their site, and there's EE people trying to sell for over $100 more? |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Originally Posted By mPisi: Rare Breed 3-pos in stock for $450 on their site, and there's EE people trying to sell for over $100 more? I'm not buying or selling an FRT on the EE, but I suspect there are people who don't want to have their name in Rare Breed's address book. |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: I'm not buying or selling an FRT on the EE, but I suspect there are people who don't want to have their name in Rare Breed's address book. Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Originally Posted By mPisi: Rare Breed 3-pos in stock for $450 on their site, and there's EE people trying to sell for over $100 more? I'm not buying or selling an FRT on the EE, but I suspect there are people who don't want to have their name in Rare Breed's address book. I figures, but via EE there's still the seller, Arfcom, and the payment processor ready to flip on you. Cash at a gun show, sure. |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Originally Posted By mPisi: I figures, but via EE there's still the seller, Arfcom, and the payment processor ready to flip on you. Cash at a gun show, sure. I’m buying everything online with my debit card. I’m posting to help others keep the momentum and get these more ubiquitous. I’m not worried about the future of these. If everyone had the same mindset, The List would have more names on it than not. Sadly, everyone is an owner/user when it’s convenient. 
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Originally Posted By ntxar15: Not to derail the thread, but you should never, EVER use a debit card online! That is a disaster waiting to happen. Carry on... Always have, always will. Never a problem with my CU when there were fraudulent charges. The credit card myth about it only being able to refund fraudulent charges is bullshit. Carrying on…
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Not me, they're in guns or waiting to be in guns. The areas where I shoot them can attest to this. I have no frear. |
An armed society is a polite society.
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With the proliferation of FRTs are binary triggers effectively dead?/ "Yep can't even sell mine. Might try trading for a super safety if I'm lucky" |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
Joined:
Nov 2022
Posts:
866
EE: 100% (16)
SD, USA
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Originally Posted By fulautotank: Where I shoot the neighbors would call the police every time we shot FA and tannerite. It was almost weekly and eventually they just quit coming. Now it is more FRT then FA but they cannot tell the difference. LOL! They can only cry wolf so much. Good on you for not acquiescing. |
| Added the Partisan at $300 to the 1. 3-Position FRT Cassette category |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
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Went to a gun show this weekend for the first time in a long time. Super Safeties everywhere, but none of the more advanced designs such as Atrius, Rarebreed, etc. prices were 50-100% higher than online retail. Interestingly enough I also saw "Solvent Traps", which I haven't seen since ATFs crack down on those a bit ago. |
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
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Originally Posted By mPisi: Are good H3 buffers still in short supply? Seem to be intermittent now. I don't think the parts side was ready for the influx. |
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen
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Originally Posted By mPisi: Are good H3 buffers still in short supply? https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kaw-Valley-Precision-H3-Tungsten-Carbine-Buffer-5-p/kvp-h3-5.4.htm |
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Random news: Binary triggers sticking around $150. News article that was being promoted by Google https://wjla.com/features/i-team/months-after-controversial-legal-move-forced-reset-triggers-are-being-sold-for-handguns-fully-automatic-ar15-semi-automatic-atf |
"And I never did get my lawnmower back!" - Bandit 6
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
"On the bright side, the money we saved by not going to Mars in the 1970s, we spent on welfare and public schools." - @MorlockP
FRT Visibility and Related AR Market Tracking (Page 1 of 2)
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