AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/26/2024 2:58:34 PM EDT
 Dwell Time Podcast #81: Griffin Enhanced Gas Pocket BCG  Griffin Armament Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group Griffin Enhanced Gas Pocket AR-15 BCG Available Now The Griffin Enhanced Gas Pocket BCG is a product that was inspired by a desire to reduce right ear sound signature of the AR-15 platform when used with suppressors. This BCG is designed to improve any suppressed AR-15, with its benefits becoming more pronounced on longer gassed systems. This BCG is constructed of 17-4 stainless steel, a stronger material than the 8620 steel material that most BCGs are made of currently, to increase BCG lifespan. The main design feature is a proprietary gas pocket where gas is vented into on the left side of the receiver. This pocket captures escaping gas increasing dwell time and reducing sound signature at the shooter's right ear, a near-unsolvable problem inherent and well-known to suppressed AR-15 shooters. This gas pocket is capable of reducing sound signature at the shooter's ear by 10.5 dB on 18" barrel rifle gas platforms. Sound reduction is correlated to the length of the gas system, but even on an 11.5" barrel with a carbine-length gas system, users can expect to see a minimum of 3.5 dB sound reduction at the shooter's ear - even when used with "high-flow" printed silencers. Other notable design improvements include a .060" increase in cam pin travel length, which allows the bolt to remain locked for longer, further reducing escaping concussion blast traveling back down the barrel and out the ejection port. This bolt carrier is sold as a bundle with Griffin's M4 CAR +15% buffer spring and shortened buffer which allows increased travel of the BCG in conjunction with a shortened nickel-boron plated proprietary gas key, reducing recoil impulse and improving bolt lock reliability by allowing more time for the bolt catch to actuate. This BCG features a physical stop for the carrier key, protecting carrier key screws from shearing off, as well as a .980" anti-tilt diameter for reducing upper receiver and bolt lug wear introduced by bolt carrier tilt. Carbon scrapers are included for people who like the carbon and debris-removing feature set. Pressure-relief features are included to reduce the risk in the event of a case-head separation. 17-7 extractor and ejector springs are used for higher temperature resistance in the bolt. .030" radius at the left and right edges of the lugs, as well as .040" at the rear of the lugs enhances the safety factor even further. MSRP: GA Gas Pocket BCG Bundle (17-4 Carrier, Bolt, Short Buffer, and CAR +15% Spring): GA Gas Pocket BCG (17-4 Mil-Spec Carrier Only - NO BOLT): Use code "MERRY15" for 30% Off until January 2nd at Midnight! Features: -17-4 SS Carrier Construction -Gas-Nitride Carrier Finish with Plasma-Nitride Bolt Finish -Proprietary Gas Pocket Design reduces right ear signature by up to 10.5 dB on suppressed AR-15s -Proprietary Nickel-Boron Gas Key with Physical Stop -Increased Cam Pin Travel Length for delayed bolt unlock -Increased BCG travel length for softer recoil impulse -Carbon Scraper Geometry Cuts -Can be used with or without gas rings (For best sound performance we recommend, and include, two gas rings installed in the rear-most groove of the bolt)        
|
www.griffinarmament.com-----Combat Vet Owned/Operated Firearm, Silencer, and accessory manufacturer.-----Designed, Engineered, and Built in Wisconsin with American Pride. 3% for life.
Joined:
May 2023
Posts:
163
EE: 0% (0)
WI, USA
|
May I ask why the complete BCG alone (w/o buffer) isn't an option for purchase, while the stripped BCG is? And is there's any chance you'll offer for purchase the complete BCG w/o the buffer extras at some point? I ask because I'm considering how to best set it up to with a lower with an A5 or rifle length buffer tube. Otherwise, it looks great and made it to my "to buy" list. eta reasoning |
|
The complete bcg right now allows the bolt to stroke .06” forward of normal and that reduces bolt catch time, and as a countermeasure we have provided an additional.250” of stroke with the buffer. The stripped carrier is intended to take your internals from a standard carrier, and we have a bcg in production for Q1 release that will be mil-spec however with the gas pocket and anti-tile features and that will have a c158 bolt, and will use normal buffers on account of a normal cam pin track. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
Joined:
May 2023
Posts:
175
EE: 0% (0)
WI, USA
|
Originally Posted By Green0: The complete bcg right now allows the bolt to stroke .06” forward of normal and that reduces bolt catch time, and as a countermeasure we have provided an additional.250” of stroke with the buffer. The stripped carrier is intended to take your internals from a standard carrier, and we have a bcg in production for Q1 release that will be mil-spec however with the gas pocket and anti-tile features and that will have a c158 bolt, and will use normal buffers on account of a normal cam pin track. Huh. Before I posted, I had watched your videos, read all your product specs and posts about the product. I wasn't confused before, but after reading that, I am. 1) Are you saying you currently have for sale two different carriers? (one that allows the additional .06" forward of normal, and one that doesn't?) 2) Or are you saying if I get just the carrier, and drop a mil-spec bolt, it will not follow your elongated cam shaft path the additional .06" forward? 3) Does your bolt travel a different distance within this carrier than a mil-spec bolt would? Before your post , I would have assumed the answers were: 1) no, just one carrier is currently for sale; 2 & 3) a mil-spec bolt would travel the full length of the cam path, just as the Griffin proprietary one would. I understand the carrier is designed to travel further back by .250". I understand your buffer is an appropriate length to accomplish that that in a carbine buffer tube. They would not be the right length if dropped into an A5 or rifle tube, right? They'd require spacers or a different (atypical) length buffer. I do not think I misunderstand the needs of the additional travel distance and the limitations created by the a standard carbine-length buffer. If I wanted this new carrier in a gun with an A5 buffer tube, then with an A5 tube, 1/2" rear spacer, carbine buffer length would give the correct overtravel, no?. (+.75" tube length -.25" extra travel = 0.5" spacer at rear). But if I want your bolt in your carrier, I have to buy your buffer and spring, too... which aren't designed for A5 length. Or did I miss something? Does that clarify why I'm interested in the complete BCG w/o proprietary buffer? ETA: typo fixes |
|
Originally Posted By PreacherOfGadget: Huh. Before I posted, I had watched your videos, read all your product specs and posts about the product. I wasn't confused before, but after reading that, I am. 1. No we have a carrier being sold by itself, that takes a mil-spec bolt and normal buffer- it has a normal cam pin track, but still has the short key so itcan stroke further if the end user uses a .250” shorter buffer. Then we have the complete bcg with buffer kit and it has the differently mapped cam pin and short buffer. Those are two related but different carriers. We also have in production a mil spec bolt carrier group with c158 bolt, that has the right side carrier ports deleted, gas pocket and left side ports added, and anti-tilt added. That BCG is going to be ~$199.95 msrp and released around mid to end of q1 2025. So 3 products- 2 of which have been released and are available. You would have the right stroke length with a AR10 car extension (3/4” longer than 5.56), and a 1/2” spacer and normal car buffer, but the spring would be .250 less compressed with the bolt closed. That might not cause any issues. We haven’t decided to sell the bcg without the buffer, so it isn’t available that way right now. Your easiest option would be to buy the carrier you put your parts into or wait- buy the more mil spec bcg complete and run your A5 buffer in your A5 tube (AR10 Car tube). |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
Joined:
May 2023
Posts:
180
EE: 0% (0)
WI, USA
|
Thanks for your reply and clarifying some of that. I really appreciate your patience, and how fast the responses are. FWIW, your product page could be much clearer on there being two different carriers, and what the differences are. https://www.griffinarmament.com/griffin-enhanced-gas-pocket-ar-15-bcg/ -- there description of which features are and are not in the "mil-spec" compared to the "proprietary" carrier. Both "mil-spec" and "proprietary" are used in reference to multiple different parts (and features of parts). To wit, both your mil-spec carriers and proprietary carriers contain a proprietary gas pocket. But the proprietary carrier has a proprietary cam pin path and the mil-spec does not. On the other hand, both the proprietary and mil-spec carriers have the same proprietary gas key and proprietary supporting carrier geometry. "Mil-spec", "proprietary" and "enhanced" are over-used. If I've learned correctly, the fundamental functional difference between these carriers is that 1 is "long-lock" and 1 is "standard-lock", regarding bolt lock time. The long-lock version requires a proprietary bolt + cam pin and has related proprietary alterations. Maybe using names that don't also apply as descriptors to multiple features on both products (and have crossover with other products you sell) would clear this up. Like "gas pocket bcg, long-lock" and "gas pocket bcg, standard-lock" to differentiate from your "enhanced mil-spec bcg". Separated product descriptions would be a nice to see. Side by side feature lists for the two carrier versions would clarify everything. Trust me, I still feel like a real idiot for missing some of these details, but product page could also be much clearer. I read that page first, mistakenly assumed there was just 1 carrier version, then took that misinterpretation into watching the videos. Thanks again for your & Griffin's time, patience, and creativity in product design. |
| Sorry about that. We have people who do their best to make the pages, but maybe we didn't do the best job of that. When they are back to work from the Shot show travel, I'll bring that up and let them read your message. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
Joined:
May 2023
Posts:
571
EE: 0% (0)
WI, USA
|
Hope Shot show went great. -------------------- I found the patent a good read for helping me understand the intent of the design. Videos are informative, surely. Personally, I find a document/diagram easier to digest than videos most of the time. For anyone else that enjoys reading patents: Bolt carrier with gas exhaust pocket |
|
Thanks. I see some companies write patents that teach nothing, or show something that is not the actual patented item, or many items that may or may not be the item, and we try to explain in greater depth. The patent is supposed to be able to allow someone with ordinary skill in the art to re-create the item, because the patent is a period of protected time in exchange for the disclosure. That's a double edged sword, but the patent shouldn't be a game- it is a disclosure. So we try to be faithful to that. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
AR Sponsor