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Posted: 5/18/2021 10:22:03 PM EST
I'm switching my pistols from quad rails to slimline handguards.
I tried angle grips and thumb stops but they were to fat for my hands. The close reach of a pistol handguard almost makes a vertical grip seem for comfortable, but of course we know that's a no go. Going with slimline handguards I find they get hot. I'm looking for ideas of plastic shields to block the heat and give a comfortable grip at the same time. I've got a Mlok and Key mod handguards. Wonder what folks are using for shielding the heat and providing a good ergonomic grip on a pistol. It would also be useful seeing what is being used mounted lights on this small amount of space. Pics are appreciated! Here a keymod handguard with shields on one pistol. Still need to figure out a QD sling and light setup.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/19/2021 4:48:30 AM EST
[#1]
The short gas system with the large gas port transfers a lot of heat through the gas tube and back to the BCG, but I found that short barrels expel a lot of heat and blast out of the muzzle.
This causes the short barrels to heat more slowly than longer barrels and the short barrels do heat the handguards as much. Rifle barrels can get really hot, but short barrels have a lot of the heat exit the muzzle, without heating the barrel as much. There isn't as much steel in the short barrel to dissipate heat, but much of the heat is leaving the muzzle without heating the short barrel as much. Of course the barrels get hot, so some shielding is desired, but it seems less of a factor with short barrels. You hand would end up nearer to the chamber end of the barrel with a short barrel, where the heat originates. |
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Posted: 5/19/2021 3:34:18 PM EST
[#2]
The previous quad rails had a larger ID, something like 2" where these slim line rails are much closer to the barrel. On one the adjustable gas block is almost touching the rail. Maybe a piece of paper would slip between them, but that's it.
The off hand seems to be located at the gas block with 8" and 8.5" barrels and I think most of the heat comes from that. I haven't had the same issue with carbines and thin profiled rails. I'm just looking for ideas on what folks are doing to provide a good hand hold on thin rails with the various options out there. What works and what doesn't. I'd rather do it |
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Posted: 5/20/2021 8:50:07 AM EST
[#3]
Maybe look at the suppressor covers/wraps that lace on.
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Posted: 5/20/2021 10:30:32 AM EST
[#4]
  
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Posted: 5/20/2021 3:39:53 PM EST
[#5]
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Posted: 5/20/2021 7:58:17 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryMust get F'n hot in there 
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Posted: 5/20/2021 10:30:33 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryLike the pressure pad at the 10:30 and light at 1:30. Seems like a natural position to trigger the light. I tried a rear button light switch but the hand position had to be too far to the rear to trigger it. Never mounted it because of that. I see you moved your heat shields/hand stop further forward then I've got mine. That makes sense. Nice pistols by the way. |
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Posted: 5/20/2021 10:33:43 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryExpensive is right... yikes! |
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Posted: 5/22/2021 12:33:22 PM EST
[#9]
deleted
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Posted: 5/26/2021 9:25:56 PM EST
[#10]
Quoted: Expensive is right... yikes! Manta Defense Tac-Wrap is an option that only costs 40 bucks. 
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Posted: 5/28/2021 3:25:27 PM EST
[#11]
I just ordered the Magpul mlok hand stop kit and rail covers to try out initially. https://magpul.com/m-lok-handstop-kit.html?mp_global_color=118
One of the challenges is the gas block sits so close to the bottom of the rail the Mlok slot isn't usable in that location. The Magpul hand stop kit appears to mount on the slots on each side and not in the middle. We shall see when it gets here.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/28/2021 3:56:24 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Manta Defense Tac-Wrap is an option that only costs 40 bucks. https://mantadefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TAC_Wrap_FlatDarkEarth.jpg That would seem to work if there isn't a desire for anything else mounted to the mloks in the area covered by the Tac-wrap. A picatinny mounted light could work if it fit between the mounting bars of the Tac-Wrap. Maybe a Cloud Defensive Owl? |
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Posted: 6/7/2021 10:24:48 AM EST
[#13]
OP you should install a handstop, an angled grip, a magwell grip.....
.....and..... .....a GRIPAZINE  
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Posted: 6/7/2021 10:44:23 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP you should install a handstop, an angled grip, a magwell grip..... .....and..... .....a GRIPAZINE https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-yck5k/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/2453/3534/yhst-49666507782127_2269_23169508__54248.1415723046.jpg?c=2 Now, that's funny right there! |
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Posted: 6/7/2021 5:00:21 PM EST
[#15]
I tried a Magpul Hand Stop kit because it attaches on the outside Mlok slots and not in the center, avoiding where the gas block is located.
Problem is the design doesn't take in account the head of the screw can/will pull through the plastic material when the screw is tightened. With lockset on the screw threads from the factory, there is little difference felt when tightening that the screw is being over tightened. There is no discernible stop felt and the pieces aren't tight to the rail before the screw pulls through. As you can see in the pic, the screw head cuts out the bottom of the hand stops into a washer that wedges inside the base piece. It's really a design flaw that could have easily been avoided. I have other Magpul accessories that are of good quality. They just missed the mark on this one.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 12:26:36 PM EST
[#16]
Keep your talk technical.
Save the silliness for GD. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 9:18:40 PM EST
[#17]
JUST PUT A CAN SOCK ON YOUR H/G. also wear a glove like the mil guys do.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:37:55 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried a Magpul Hand Stop kit because it attaches on the outside Mlok slots and not in the center, avoiding where the gas block is located. Problem is the design doesn't take in account the head of the screw can/will pull through the plastic material when the screw is tightened. With lockset on the screw threads from the factory, there is little difference felt when tightening that the screw is being over tightened. There is no discernible stop felt and the pieces aren't tight to the rail before the screw pulls through. As you can see in the pic, the screw head cuts out the bottom of the hand stops into a washer that wedges inside the base piece. It's really a design flaw that could have easily been avoided. I have other Magpul accessories that are of good quality. They just missed the mark on this one. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/Magpul_hand_stop_jpg-1970782.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/Magpul_hand_stop_2_jpg-1970801.JPG  I've had that same stop kit for years, swapped onto at least 3 rifles and never had an issue. You also don't have to use the plate. Depending on the shape of the rail it may not be required. I've used it with and without the plate. Not that it makes a difference now, but are you making sure the lug is rotated 90° before wrenching it down? In the early days of M-lock I know I marred up the inside of at least one rail not knowing that the lug had to rotate and I could never tell if it was tight enough. After I figured out the rotation, never had an issue. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 12:58:15 AM EST
[#19]
If you want great performance at a reasonable cost... muffler wrap over the handguards. Cheap, widely available, highly effective.
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Posted: 6/11/2021 1:33:22 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had that same stop kit for years, swapped onto at least 3 rifles and never had an issue. You also don't have to use the plate. Depending on the shape of the rail it may not be required. I've used it with and without the plate. Not that it makes a difference now, but are you making sure the lug is rotated 90° before wrenching it down? In the early days of M-lock I know I marred up the inside of at least one rail not knowing that the lug had to rotate and I could never tell if it was tight enough. After I figured out the rotation, never had an issue. Yep, I made sure the lugs turned initially as each screw was tightened. I didn't put a lot of torque on the screw that little allen wrench that comes with the kit. Did your kit have loctite dried on the screw threads? I think that caused the feel of the torque not to change much as the screw head pulled through the material. When it started to get easier to turn, I had a feeling it went too far. I didn't realize what had happened until I tried to unscrew the parts to swap around the hand stop positions on the rail. There's really not much material in the stops to the rail. I might try to epoxy the stops to the plate and drill out new screw holes after it dries. That will put more material under the screw heads and fill the gaps. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 3:54:28 AM EST
[#21]
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Posted: 6/13/2021 9:14:01 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want great performance at a reasonable cost... muffler wrap over the handguards. Cheap, widely available, highly effective. This. 10' for $40 should take care of it. Some zip ties and ur g2g. https://www.designengineering.com/products/heat-control/exhaust-wrap/ |
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Posted: 6/13/2021 9:20:49 PM EST
[#23]
A hand stop and a glove is your best option. The holes in the hand guard are there to allow for airflow and cooling.
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Posted: 6/24/2021 1:12:40 AM EST
[#24]
I epoxied filed the screw holes and drilled them out for the screws to fit. Screws can be tightened down firmly now and they don't pull through.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 6:27:33 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A hand stop and a glove is your best option. The holes in the hand guard are there to allow for airflow and cooling. This…… |
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Posted: 7/4/2021 6:38:46 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, I made sure the lugs turned initially as each screw was tightened. I didn't put a lot of torque on the screw that little allen wrench that comes with the kit. Did your kit have loctite dried on the screw threads? I think that caused the feel of the torque not to change much as the screw head pulled through the material. When it started to get easier to turn, I had a feeling it went too far. I didn't realize what had happened until I tried to unscrew the parts to swap around the hand stop positions on the rail. There's really not much material in the stops to the rail. I might try to epoxy the stops to the plate and drill out new screw holes after it dries. That will put more material under the screw heads and fill the gaps. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've had that same stop kit for years, swapped onto at least 3 rifles and never had an issue. You also don't have to use the plate. Depending on the shape of the rail it may not be required. I've used it with and without the plate. Not that it makes a difference now, but are you making sure the lug is rotated 90° before wrenching it down? In the early days of M-lock I know I marred up the inside of at least one rail not knowing that the lug had to rotate and I could never tell if it was tight enough. After I figured out the rotation, never had an issue. Yep, I made sure the lugs turned initially as each screw was tightened. I didn't put a lot of torque on the screw that little allen wrench that comes with the kit. Did your kit have loctite dried on the screw threads? I think that caused the feel of the torque not to change much as the screw head pulled through the material. When it started to get easier to turn, I had a feeling it went too far. I didn't realize what had happened until I tried to unscrew the parts to swap around the hand stop positions on the rail. There's really not much material in the stops to the rail. I might try to epoxy the stops to the plate and drill out new screw holes after it dries. That will put more material under the screw heads and fill the gaps. Magpuls stupid threadlocker strikes again. Slateback Industries Covers are decent. I use those to get around the gas block/mlok slot issues I honestly prefer type 2 covers |
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Posted: 7/9/2021 1:54:01 AM EST
[#27]
I think this is going to work out for now. Added a light and all the pieces seem to work together good. The hand is completely off the rail and the circulation vents are not blocked. The 12 oclock position for the switch seems to work and can be easily reached with either hand. Might find a more compact light at some point.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/9/2021 3:30:36 AM EST
[#28]
gloves and loctite 272.
its for small screws. removable. you cranked that screw
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Posted: 7/11/2021 12:04:52 AM EST
[#29]
I thought about removing the threadlocker Magpul put on the screws before installing, but figured their R&D must know what their doing...
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Posted: 7/11/2021 8:05:27 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this is going to work out for now. Added a light and all the pieces seem to work together good. The hand is completely off the rail and the circulation vents are not blocked. The 12 oclock position for the switch seems to work and can be easily reached with either hand. Might find a more compact light at some point. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/HL-X_1_jpg-2007114.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/HL-X_2_jpg-2007115.JPG We use the same panels (also same lights, switches, and hand stops except only the smaller part). It works well for us. Yours looks good and functional to me. ETA: We use the same configuration on everything here from 7.5" barrels on up. No problems so far and never needed a smaller light. It's nice because everything takes the same batteries, parts, and all works the same AR to AR, user to user. |
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Posted: 7/13/2021 4:41:01 PM EST
[#31]
Changed out the Streamlight switch mount hardware with a cloud defense mount. The cable routing is nice and since it's made from a glass filled nylon polymer it should shield the hand from heat coming off the rail. With these add-ons the support hand doesn't seem to make contact the aluminum rail.
 Attached File Attached FileMagpul bottom grip panel $25 Magpul side panels $20 Streamlight HL-X kit $80 Arisaka Mount $45 Cloud defense switch mount $40 QD mount - came with sling $210 total |
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Posted: 7/13/2021 8:51:55 PM EST
[#32]
I've tried all types of handstops and finger stops. Right now I have BCM's ANGLED Vertical grips on my pistols.
I've also set them all up to run a pressure switch mid rail at 6:00. I have the Magpul handstop you have, which is fine. Oddly enough, Strike Industries makes a really neat one that fits both MLOK and Keymod rails. You can run it either direction. I ran mine "backwards" (large in towards the front).  As far as rail covers go, I think the ERGO's (mlok slot covers) a bit. The rubbery texture is really nice. The one thing that bugs me is that each can only use a full mlok slot. You can't use "bridge" mlok slots like Magpul's can. Mine have the American Flag where it says ERGO.  |
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Posted: 7/14/2021 12:04:52 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've tried all types of handstops and finger stops. Right now I have BCM's ANGLED Vertical grips on my pistols. I've also set them all up to run a pressure switch mid rail at 6:00. I have the Magpul handstop you have, which is fine. Oddly enough, Strike Industries makes a really neat one that fits both MLOK and Keymod rails. You can run it either direction. I ran mine "backwards" (large in towards the front). https://op1.0ps.us/365-365-ffffff/opplanet-strike-industries-link-curved-foregrip-mcimage-spids-94567-94818-176588-94814-vids-new.jpg As far as rail covers go, I think the ERGO's (mlok slot covers) a bit. The rubbery texture is really nice. The one thing that bugs me is that each can only use a full mlok slot. You can't use "bridge" mlok slots like Magpul's can. Mine have the American Flag where it says ERGO. https://www.ergogrips.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/4332-ERGO-BK-1.jpg I was considering the Strike handstop, but it requires 2 consecutive M-slots. The gas block prevents the middle M-slot from being used cause the rail fits too close. How did you get around that? or does your rail have room under the GB to fit the Mlok?  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/14/2021 10:57:11 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was considering the Strike handstop, but it requires 2 consecutive M-slots. The gas block prevents the middle M-slot from being used cause the rail fits too close. How did you get around that? or does your rail have room under the GB to fit the Mlok? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/Strike_JPG-2013018.JPG I think I had room...it has been sometime since I had it on. It might have been able to bridge the block as well once the mlok "tabs" were turned and locked in. 
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Posted: 7/15/2021 2:16:03 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I had room...it has been sometime since I had it on. It might have been able to bridge the block as well once the mlok "tabs" were turned and locked in. https://i.imgur.com/XURqDW1.png It looks from the pic like you were able to squeeze the Mlok in the same slot where the gas block sits. Looks good! |
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Posted: 7/31/2021 2:19:43 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Changed out the Streamlight switch mount hardware with a cloud defense mount. The cable routing is nice and since it's made from a glass filled nylon polymer it should shield the hand from heat coming off the rail. With these add-ons the support hand doesn't seem to make contact the aluminum rail. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/CD_switch_2_JPG-2012414.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/375214/CD_switch_jpg-2012415.JPG Magpul bottom grip panel $25 Magpul side panels $20 Streamlight HL-X kit $80 Arisaka Mount $45 Cloud defense switch mount $40 QD mount - came with sling $210 total Very nice. Well done. 
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Posted: 7/31/2021 5:18:10 PM EST
[#37]
Quoted: Going with slimline handguards I find they get hot. Exact reason why I stopped using them on all my rifles. They get hot and they get hot quickly. I can shoot a ton with quad rails and it takes a bit for them to heat up. Then again, they have a ton of surface area to dissipate heat with. |
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Posted: 8/5/2021 2:11:15 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exact reason why I stopped using them on all my rifles. They get hot and they get hot quickly. I can shoot a ton with quad rails and it takes a bit for them to heat up. Then again, they have a ton of surface area to dissipate heat with. I had quad rails on the pistols and switched to the slimline to get a more ergonomic grip. I used the FAB Defense PTK angle grip with the addition of the thumb support, it provided a solid grip, but it was too fat for my hands. If there was an Mlok or Key mod version of the Fab Def grips it would be my preference. The rail attachment just stands them out too far. Maybe I'll try to modify a PTK grip to a Keymod attachment when I get some time. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 12:44:02 AM EST
[#39]
Cut the rail attachment off the PTK and used the mlok nuts and screws from the Magpul grip. Short screw in front and long screw in the rear. Seems to hold tight.
Much better feel than when the PTK is on a quad rails Thumb easily wraps around to activate the switch on the top rail. I've got medium size hands.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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