AR Sponsor
Posted: 5/5/2018 11:05:36 AM EDT
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(TLDR: Heavy ejector smear, carbon tracking around primers, primers blown out, case bodies dented, case mouths split)
Picked up 400 rounds of 223 at a good deal locally (4.85 per box of 20) and ran in 6 different rifles. It's consistency in failure was present in all 6 rifles. Accuracy varied. All rifles sighted for 100 yards, 2 (spikes crusader and black rain ordinance) shot 6-8 inches high at 100  but shot spot on with other ammo (Federal 193 Wolf Gold Federal 855 and range bought armscor 62gr 223)
Heavy ejector smear on hornady frontier out of 5 ARs, if you reload there is no saving this spent brass. Cases also bulged near head, some deep dents in the middle of brass from slamming into shell deflector. I would say about half of the spent cases show obvious signs of over pressure with carbon residue around primers and onto case head. About 2 dozen primers blown out across 6 rifles. However, When cycling manually absolutely no ejector smear on cases. No signs of case damage whether racking slowly or when yanking the charging handle as fast as you can rearward. Brass from the mini 14 is only good for scrap. Spikes Crusader 14.5 with R2 brake pinned and welded heavy ejector smear on case and some signs of carbon around primer. One spent case had a bulge near the base and shouldn't have ejected. Cases dented in the middle slamming into the deflector is my best guess... Palmetto build, same thing as above with ejector smear, carbon on case head some primers not flush with case head (about to blow out) but with brass tumbling/falling out when ejected. Tore upper apart immediately after 10 rounds and inspected bolt face, locking lugs, ejector, gas rings and no signs of any issue what so ever. Slapped back together and ran it to have 1 failure to eject from a bulged case. Would make sense not enough gas to throw brass if gas is exiting case around primer... Ruger AR 556 throws that brass hard enough to bounce off of Bay divider at the range and back in front of my face over the top of the upper landing on the left side of the bench and floor. Had 5 cases missing primers, they fell out into the lower. Didn't cause a stoppage nor trigger failure. Found them while cleaning. All case bodies from Ruger have dents in the middle possibly from smacking the shell deflector. 2 cases were split at the mouth where the bullet seats... Mini 14 had a few double feeds. Tried 8 different magazines. Original OEM mags and a couple cheapo pro mags. Soon as I switched to wolf gold double feed issue stopped. Had a couple short strokes where the bolt and op rod only came back half way. Only time it ever did that was with piston erosion years ago. Also had brass shavings on my right eyebrow and on shooting glasses. That was the Only rifle that did that one... It threw brass almost perfectly vertical. A few were missing primers, one was found in a magazine when it had a failure to feed, the remaining missing primers may have found their way into orbit? It literally functioned like a rifle sized Glock 
Aero 18 inch build (Aero upper Mlock and Aero lower Hiper touch 24 3G trigger), 3 failures to eject. 2 cases were bulged near the head. 1 appeared fine aside from ejector peeling the case head open. Had to kick start the charging handle to eject. (Not fond of slamming stock on bench/ground to wreck buffer tube and damage scope from shock) Fail Zero nickel boron bolt carrier, BA Hanson barrel. Found 1 primer in barrel extension where locking lugs engage to cause the total stoppage... Switched to wolf gold rifle ran great. At first thought a possible head space issue. No issues exhibited in wolf gold. (Old faithful) Black Rain Ordinance bought new when I was 18, failure to go into battery. Thought buffer spring may have been worn out (that rifle has had 1,000s of rounds put through it ranging from tula steel case to black Hills 77gr) swapped buffer spring from the original to one that was included with a double tap trigger. Same result. Bolt does not seat fully. Must use forward assist. Reconfigured back to OEM buffer spring ran wolf gold No issue. Switched back to Hornady every other shot had to use forward assist. Total stoppage on round 25. Failure to eject. Almost as if no gas got to the BCG to strip the case. Removed magazine removed take down pins had to use a rod to pop case and BCG out. Ejector was elevated off of the case, primer fell out when removing casing from bolt. Tore bolt carrier down inspected bolt and ejector. Ejector seated once casing was removed wanted to make sure ejector wasn't bent/damaged from the blow out. Cleaned, lubed, reassembled, functioned fine for remaining 5 rounds just heavy extractor smear... 2nd magazine of Frontier round 3 or 4 dropped a primer and failed to feed. Must have landed just right to catch a lug on the bolt and wedge against the right lip of the magazine, shearing the lip off of a Pmag. Did not know that until I went to rack another round and had a glorious double/triple feed with a cartridge fling out the ejection port removed the magazine and cartridges scattered all about on the bench.
Ohwell. Ran fine on all other ammo. Had 500 rounds of Federal 193 and 855 (250 rounds each) ran in all rifles even the mini 14 issue free. No ejector smear, no primers blown out, no double feeds no failure to extract, no failure to go into battery, no dents in the case bodies. Had 500 rounds of wolf gold. Absolutely 0 issues what so ever. Even ran some cheap range ammo (180 rounds) Armscor 62gr 223. Only issue with armscor is blue/green residue in muzzle devices. I thought Frontier was lake city brass with Hornady projectiles and powder? I had 2 cases that ejected from the Ruger 556 That split at the mouth and some with a slight bulge near the base of the case. In theory those ones shouldn't have ejected... if it was a head space issue, the problem should have been in every cartridge fired from 193, 855, Wolf gold, and armscor. What are the odds in that across 6 rifles at once? Cleaning all of the rifles this morning and inspecting components. No issues found aside from alot of brass shavings in uppers, lowers, and on bolt faces even at the range with quick inspections/repairs I noticed a ton of brass shavings more than "normal" None of the rifles had any obstruction in their bores. All of the above rifles are meticulously and religiously cleaned, lubed, and a bore mop ran through barrels before heading to the range. No chance in hell for oil/solvent being present in barrel. I will repeat, none of the rifles repeated the same when cycling manually by hand, nor with other ammo. Only when fired did ejector smear become present on Frontier casings. My advice, inspect your brass if you run it. Hopefully it was a fluke on that lot of ammo. Not bashing it. Shit happens. I chalk it up as a bad lot. Will try again eventually. Still amazed the old Black Rain takes a knockin, and keeps on rockin. Aside from having changed gas rings twice in its lifetime and ejector O-rings at the same time upon the 1,000s possibly 10s of 1,000s of rounds run through it, that old whore keeps chugging right along. As for the Frontier ammo, I shot it all. 
Only other time I experienced the above with primers blown out, was with gun show reloads but not nearly that frequently. If I had to guess at how many cartridges were issue free, I would say... 50-60 tops.
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I've gotten 1 or less MOA from my rifles using the T2 or Hornady M193, both in 5.56. They all went bang in semi. The ammunition is loaded by LC using their brass, powder, primers, and the only thing that is Hornady is the Hornady projectiles. And I've reloaded the brass already, no dents, cracks, whatever, the brass is perfect. Not even a blown primer. I think either that your gun or guns is bad, or just maybe a bad lot. What is the lot number, OP? |
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Quoted:
Why did you not quit shooting and immediately contact Hornady? Quoted:
Why did you not quit shooting and immediately contact Hornady?  Can't piss on my parade. I'm a pretty easy going dude. I'd only ring Hornady if something serious happened. Then I turn into a prick. Ask Kimber. (1700 dollar paper weight) I figure... everyday someone answers the phone and has to deal with some overzealous perfectionist who claims their product is shit and demands a full refund because boohoo I had 1 jam or 1 popped primer... or in the extreme and say all 400 rounds are shit. Otherwise I'd be out doing hood rat stuff with my friends in the backyard opposed to debating chili with or without beans. Whether to FO or not to FO. Deciding if a chick is guilty, or not guilty. Offering advice on when to eject. Or trolling the local newspaper TCPALM with 9mmcarbine. (If you aren't giggling by now then perhaps some memes are in order) Just a PSA if you will, to check your brass if you run it. Hopefully I'm the only one who had issues. Quoted:
I've gotten 1 or less MOA from my rifles using the T2 or Hornady M193, both in 5.56. They all went bang in semi. The ammunition is loaded by LC using their brass, powder, primers, and the only thing that is Hornady is the Hornady projectiles. And I've reloaded the brass already, no dents, cracks, whatever, the brass is perfect. Not even a blown primer. I think either that your gun or guns is bad, or just maybe a bad lot. What is the lot number, OP? I've had great success with other Hornady products in the past. Most of their ammo is sub MOA no matter what rifle it's fired from, just not an affordable go to the range all day and shoot type of ammo... When 193/855 can be had for 299.99 for 1k rounds, wolf gold 270 per 1k, when midway runs their sale on IMI 55 or 62gr can't go wrong there... accuracy can suffer some as long as I'm able to go bang every time my booger hook engages the bang switch. Doh I didn't write it down. (I know. I know. You had one job OP)
I just loaded stripper clips then mags, flung the boxes in the trash and went to the range. When I came home (trash day) garbage cans were empty. Next time I will write it down. If I can still score some locally I will do again tomorrow and report back with findings. That armscor stuff, my only complaint is the blue/green crud it left behind in all of the muzzle devices... That was the last batch of ammo I ran and that car battery terminal corrosion looking crap started showing up only after shooting that stuff. That shit is relentless. Seems non chlorinated brake clean a .17 Cal brass bore brush followed quickly with WD40 (to prevent flash rust) then Hoppes/CLP/mobil1 (whatever lube is handy at that time) is the only thing that busts that shit up. Having torn every single bolt and carrier down from every single rifle nothing appears damaged. No signs of scratches, gouges, dents, chips, dings, dents, cracks. Just typical carbon deposits in the typical areas and normal appearing carriers bolts and cam pins. |
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Quoted:
I would have if damage occurred-upper ballooned or kaboomed. I'm not letting malfunctions ruin my fun. When an opportunity exists aside from sunday gun day, to get out and shoot such as work closing Friday-Tuesday, I get out and shoot since I don't have acreage Can't piss on my parade. I'm a pretty easy going dude. I'd only ring Hornady if something serious happened. Then I turn into a prick. Ask Kimber. (1700 dollar paper weight) I figure... everyday someone answers the phone and has to deal with some overzealous perfectionist who claims their product is shit and demands a full refund because boohoo I had 1 jam or 1 popped primer... or in the extreme and say all 400 rounds are shit. Otherwise I'd be out doing hood rat stuff with my friends in the backyard opposed to debating chili with or without beans. Whether to FO or not to FO. Deciding if a chick is guilty, or not guilty. Offering advice on when to eject. Or trolling the local newspaper TCPALM with 9mmcarbine. (If you aren't giggling by now then perhaps some memes are in order) Just a PSA if you will, to check your brass if you run it. Hopefully I'm the only one who had issues. I'm leaning with a bad lot as none of the other ammo I had with me exhibited the same issues. Even 193/855. Literally 0 issue with any of the other ammo. Was just that particular ammo that had issues. Strange as federal 193/855 is lake city as well. I've had great success with other Hornady products in the past. Most of their ammo is sub MOA no matter what rifle it's fired from, just not an affordable go to the range all day and shoot type of ammo... When 193/855 can be had for 299.99 for 1k rounds, wolf gold 270 per 1k, when midway runs their sale on IMI 55 or 62gr can't go wrong there... accuracy can suffer some as long as I'm able to go bang every time my booger hook engages the bang switch. Doh I didn't write it down. (I know. I know. You had one job OP)
I just loaded stripper clips then mags, flung the boxes in the trash and went to the range. When I came home (trash day) garbage cans were empty. Next time I will write it down. If I can still score some locally I will do again tomorrow and report back with findings. That armscor stuff, my only complaint is the blue/green crud it left behind in all of the muzzle devices... That was the last batch of ammo I ran and that car battery terminal corrosion looking crap started showing up only after shooting that stuff. That shit is relentless. Seems non chlorinated brake clean a .17 Cal brass bore brush followed quickly with WD40 (to prevent flash rust) then Hoppes/CLP/mobil1 (whatever lube is handy at that time) is the only thing that busts that shit up. Having torn every single bolt and carrier down from every single rifle nothing appears damaged. No signs of scratches, gouges, dents, chips, dings, dents, cracks. Just typical carbon deposits in the typical areas and normal appearing carriers bolts and cam pins. Quoted:
Quoted:
Why did you not quit shooting and immediately contact Hornady? Can't piss on my parade. I'm a pretty easy going dude. I'd only ring Hornady if something serious happened. Then I turn into a prick. Ask Kimber. (1700 dollar paper weight) I figure... everyday someone answers the phone and has to deal with some overzealous perfectionist who claims their product is shit and demands a full refund because boohoo I had 1 jam or 1 popped primer... or in the extreme and say all 400 rounds are shit. Otherwise I'd be out doing hood rat stuff with my friends in the backyard opposed to debating chili with or without beans. Whether to FO or not to FO. Deciding if a chick is guilty, or not guilty. Offering advice on when to eject. Or trolling the local newspaper TCPALM with 9mmcarbine. (If you aren't giggling by now then perhaps some memes are in order) Just a PSA if you will, to check your brass if you run it. Hopefully I'm the only one who had issues. Quoted:
I've gotten 1 or less MOA from my rifles using the T2 or Hornady M193, both in 5.56. They all went bang in semi. The ammunition is loaded by LC using their brass, powder, primers, and the only thing that is Hornady is the Hornady projectiles. And I've reloaded the brass already, no dents, cracks, whatever, the brass is perfect. Not even a blown primer. I think either that your gun or guns is bad, or just maybe a bad lot. What is the lot number, OP? I've had great success with other Hornady products in the past. Most of their ammo is sub MOA no matter what rifle it's fired from, just not an affordable go to the range all day and shoot type of ammo... When 193/855 can be had for 299.99 for 1k rounds, wolf gold 270 per 1k, when midway runs their sale on IMI 55 or 62gr can't go wrong there... accuracy can suffer some as long as I'm able to go bang every time my booger hook engages the bang switch. Doh I didn't write it down. (I know. I know. You had one job OP)
I just loaded stripper clips then mags, flung the boxes in the trash and went to the range. When I came home (trash day) garbage cans were empty. Next time I will write it down. If I can still score some locally I will do again tomorrow and report back with findings. That armscor stuff, my only complaint is the blue/green crud it left behind in all of the muzzle devices... That was the last batch of ammo I ran and that car battery terminal corrosion looking crap started showing up only after shooting that stuff. That shit is relentless. Seems non chlorinated brake clean a .17 Cal brass bore brush followed quickly with WD40 (to prevent flash rust) then Hoppes/CLP/mobil1 (whatever lube is handy at that time) is the only thing that busts that shit up. Having torn every single bolt and carrier down from every single rifle nothing appears damaged. No signs of scratches, gouges, dents, chips, dings, dents, cracks. Just typical carbon deposits in the typical areas and normal appearing carriers bolts and cam pins. I can see you couldn't care less, though. |
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Quoted: It's a safety issue that could impact other shooters, and that's exactly why Hornady would appreciate your feedback. I can see you couldn't care less, though. I even zyglowed the bolts and carriers. No cracks found. Short of sending everything out to a machine shop to be magnafluxed (MPI) there were no issues found... Hence why I suggest inspecting brass should you run into a problem. |
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Pics... and you should notify Hornady. If not for your sake, then for others sake... just because none of them ka-boomed in your firearms, doesn't mean it wouldn't in some one elses. Seriously,.... knowingly allowing potentially unsafe ammo to go unreported... is not acting responsibly. It really doesn't take much time on your end. |
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