AR Sponsor
MIL-SPEC, MIL-STD, TDP and More, Explained: Colt, KFC, and the Fried Chicken Theory of the AR15 (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 4/30/2014 3:41:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Augee][Edited]
|
So, I originally posted this analogy in the "FN-15" thread, then as a post in the AR Basics section, but it grew much more comprehensive than I'd originally planned and I figured it would be useful in here, too, given the general misunderstandings that people have about the meanings of things like MIL-SPEC ("military specification) and MIL-STD ("military standard") and TDP ("technical data package") - I figured this little analogy might be helpful in the AR Basics section to help some people understand some of the things that are at work here.
Here's what I originally posted: Originally Posted By Augee:
Let's make this simple: The TDP is like KFC's "secret blend" of herbs and spices. It has nothing to do with being better or worse. The fact that other people don't use the "secret blend" says nothing about whether some people make better fried chicken or worse fried chicken. But it's still not the same fried chicken. If you happen to be looking for KFC and someone says "just go to Popeye's, it's the same thing," you call bullshit. People may have varying opinions about whether or not Popeye's is "just as good," "better," or "worse," whether you can get "more for your money" somewhere else, or KFC charges too much for their shitty chicken, or KFC makes the best damned fried chicken under the sun - but none of those things will make Popeye's chicken KFC chicken. ~Augee ETA: As a corollary to that little analogy - if someone bought a lot of KFC fried chicken and had a pretty reasonable understanding already of how to make fried chicken, but having had never actually seen the KFC recipe, but then experimented with all sorts of spices and measurements and this and that and combined them together to make fried chicken in the style of KFC, maybe adding their own little changes here and there - using slightly different ingredients, or whatever - you'd have the current commercial AR market. That's still not a judgment call - chances are, you'd have a certain number of people who thought it was "close enough" to be indistinguishable, a certain number that thought it was "better," a certain number that thought it was "worse," and a certain number who just would rather know what they were getting without having to bite into a piece of chicken first to figure it out, and therefore would just choose to keep going to KFC. Meanwhile - you might also have some people who figured "people can't tell the difference anyways" and bought way cheaper ingredients or used less of or none of some things that they figured "would never be missed" to save some money. You might also have some people who once they got close enough, would think that they could still make it better - and using their reverse-engineered KFC recipe as a base could make gourmet fried chicken. That's the simple version above, and it sketches out the basics. Thinking about it some more, I figured I could use this analogy and go a little further - using fried chicken - something almost everyone understands (  ) to explain some of the more confusing concepts that are sometimes difficult for beginners to wade through.
So - I've summarized the history in rough form to try to make it easier for people to understand - so this is my Fried Chicken History and Fried Chicken Theory of the AR15. I've organized the post so it will be easier to read and find the things that you want to read more about: Chapter numbers are Red and Bold. Chapter headings are Bold and Underlined - Chapter sub-titles give you a little bit more detail about what's in that section - below is a Table of Contents organized so you can see which section(s) you want to read - and skip forward or around in the post by using the red chapter numbers to get to the subject you're looking for. Disclaimer:
After reading some of the responses, it occurs to me that perhaps not everyone has quite the same fried chicken situation as I do - probably shoulda thought about that earlier, but that's neither here nor there. There's a couple reasons that I used KFC as the analog for Colt, some of them practical - they have an acknowledged "secret recipe" that everyone knows about (which, by the way, if you google it - as others have pointed out about the TDP, it's not really that much of a secret) that they call "Original Recipe," - plus everyone is more or less familiar with KFC. That being said, where I am in South Carolina - NO ONE thinks that KFC makes the best fried chicken, I don't think that KFC makes the best fried chicken, and there are people around here who would slap you silly if you tried to imply that KFC makes the best fried chicken. There are also people that I know that absolutely think KFC SUCKS and would not DEIGN to eat KFC fried chicken. So that's where I'm coming from, so anyone that thinks that by using KFC as the analog for Colt, I'm implying that either Colt or KFC is the best of its type clearly does not understand fried chicken in South Carolina. It's also fairly well acknowledged that the best fried chicken tends to come from, frankly, dingy little local shops where, the proprietors are, no offense meant, but of a somewhat lower economic bracket, and have been making fried chicken using their own family recipes for generations - these are the places that make the best fried chicken that you can buy. A lot of times, if you look at the shop, you're frankly not even confident that all the health codes are being followed, and they take cash only, and their menu boards are those "moveable type" peg boards that you stick the letters in to spell whatever you want that ruffian kids rearrange regularly to say "TITS AND ASS," and the food is way cheaper than at any corporate place. So, by pointing out a few things about little local places, I'm not saying little local places suck - I was trying to point out certain realities about cost versus quality and what we know and don't know about how certain businesses are run and/or stay in business. Just like if you asked me, point blank would you be confident that (name of restaurant omitted to not slander any actual place) would pass a health inspection? I'd say... uhm... let me get back to you on that... On the other hand, if you asked me how the fried chicken was at that place, I'd say, I've eaten there, and damn, their fried chicken is great, and it's cheap - highly recommended. As you've mentioned - some people are not all like that - they'll hear my recommendation that I've eaten there and the food's good, but they don't know me, they don't know what I consider good, first of all, and they don't know what threshold of "acceptable" is to me. They know I didn't get food poisoning and die, at least (the rifle didn't blow up in my face) - but beyond that, they don't really know. Among that group of people, there is going to be a portion of people who say I'm not going to even bother, maybe it's the best fried chicken in the world, but if you can't promise me they're up to code, I aint going. That's fine, that's their decision - you're as honest as you can be with both the goods and the bads, they can make their decision. The Fried Chicken Theory of the AR15: Table of Contents: 1. Early Development: TDP, MIL-SPEC, and MIL-STDs 2. Military Adoption: The M16 vs. the Ordnance Corps, Vietnam, and the M16's Reputation 3. The Commercial Market: The Colt SP1 and Commercial Versions of the AR15-pattern Rifle 4. FN M16s and AR15s: Contracting and FNMI M16/M4s versus the FNH FN-15 5. The Modern Armalite: Mark Westrom, Eagle Arms, and the Armalite of Today versus the Original Armalite 6. Non-Manufacturer "Assemblers": BCM, PSA, etc. - OEM manufacturers versus Brand Names 7. Palmetto State Armory: Awesome or Terrible? also AR15.com and the Internet: Forums versus Real Life 8. "Pins and Springs," Forge Marks, and "Piston or DI?": Common Questions and Misunderstandings Explained 8a. Pins and Springs: 8b. Forge Marks: 8c. Piston versus DI: 9. Giving Advice to Total Beginners: "What brand should I buy for my very first AR?" |
|
The Fried Chicken Theory of the AR15:
1. Early Development: TDP, MIL-SPEC, and MIL-STDs So - let's imagine for a moment - not saying it's true - but just accept - for the purposes of this analogy, that someone working in the Food Service department of PanAm invented the "Original Recipe" for fried chicken that would one day become KFC fried chicken. This person just happens to have been a chicken farmer as well, so they actually slaughter their own chickens, cut 'em up, uses dried herbs from their own garden, etc. and makes a couple of batches of fried chicken and serves them on a couple flights - say... seventeen batches. A couple people try the chicken, and they're blown away, they think it's great, and they want more! Unfortunately, PanAm tells the guy, hey, love the chicken - but we're an airline, we're not going to suddenly become a fried chicken restaurant - we're not going to spend our money on you figuring out how to make enough fried chicken to serve on every single flight. Dammit! So - even though you've got a pretty good start on a hell of a fried chicken recipe, you can only make a little bit of it at a time, it take a long time, and it's hard to make - and you need to keep your day job. Along comes Harlan Sanders from KFC - he says "sell me the Original Recipe and every batch of chicken you have on hand and everything you have to make it." Reluctantly, the guy agrees - KFC now owns the Original Recipe and all the original batches of fried chicken invented by this guy. So - in this scenario - PanAm is Fairchild, an aircraft and engine company - PanAm Food Service is ArmaLite, a division of Fairchild - but not exactly their major business focus. KFC is Colt. So - KFC now has this recipe - it's damn good, but it requires just a little bit too much hands-on - you can make a couple batches for your family - but you can't exactly make enough fast enough for cheap enough to run a restaurant. So - KFC takes the Original Recipe and works with it - fiddling with it here, fiddling with it there, and finally figures out how to not only make good tasting fried chicken - but make it viable to actually open a fried chicken restaurant - the final recipe they come up with is what is now known as the KFC "secret blend" of herbs and spices for Original Recipe fried chicken. The "secret blend" is the TDP - the technical data package of exactly how much of what goes in to KFC fried chicken. Now - when KFC first starts selling fried chicken - they originally sell it under the name "PanAm Food Service Original Recipe Fried Chicken." That's the Colt Model 01 (R601) - rollmarked "COLT ARMALITE AR-15." By the second couple of batches, they've started dropping the whole "PanAm Food Service" and now they're just calling it "Original Recipe" - Original Recipe, if you haven't gathered by now - is "AR-15." So now - KFC is the only one that's got the actual "Original Recipe" that everyone recognizes - because they actually opened a restaurant - including the guy from PanAm Food Service. Now - no one's really ever had anything quite like KFC Original Recipe at this time - you get the president to try it, who loves it, not to mention the secretary of defense and the pretty important dude from the Air Force. The guy from the Air Force loves it so damn much that he's gonna buy it for his whole organization - so you start churning out Original Recipe for this guy. The SecDef one ups him, though - and says "I want to serve KFC at every mess hall in the entire military." So - the SecDef is...well, the SecDef, McNamara, the Air Force guy happens to be Curtis Lemay. Of course, in order to make sure that KFC fried chicken is consistent and properly prepared to serve in every military mess hall, they make sure to specify certain things - some of them make sense, like the internal temperature of the chicken has to be a certain temperature to make sure that it reduces the risk of food poisoning, that KFC has to use Grade A chicken, etc. KFC's already doing most of these things, anyways, but some of them can be downright weird - like you have to mix the batter mixture for exactly two minutes with a wooden spoon in a stainless steel bowl. These are military standards and military specifications, the MIL-STDs and MIL-SPECs. Some of them make sense, some of them don't, some of them are downright weird, but hey, it's what the customer wants, so it's what you're gonna do. Because not only are they going to require these things - but since you're making this fried chicken for the whole military, they're actually going to send government inspectors to hang out in your kitchen and make sure you follow all of the rules, and is periodically going to take a bite out of a random piece of chicken from every batch to make sure it tastes right. 2. Military Adoption: The M16 vs. the Ordnance Corps, Vietnam, and the M16's Reputation Of course - the Army Mess Hall Corps is not happy about this at all. Not only have they just spent a couple years and a boat load of money perfecting their newest hamburger recipe because soldiers liked hamburgers in the last war - they've forced the entire rest of Western Europe to serve only beef in their mess halls - now the SecDef is trying to force them to serve chicken. The Mess Hall Corps is actually the Ordnance Corps, while beef is 7.62 NATO, and the new hamburger recipe is the M14. So, obviously butt hurt - the Army Mess Hall Corps says - "well, we don't want your fried chicken unless you add this herb from our hamburger recipe to it." The guy at PanAm Food Service thinks it's kind of ridiculous, because it's not going to make the chicken taste any better - but hey, he's not even really in the picture any more - KFC says, "alright, dudes, whatever, we'll figure out a way to get that herb into the recipe." So, you make a slightly different recipe, call it "Original Recipe A1" and the Army begrudgingly decides to buy it. The Air Force is like "psh, we don't care, we like Original Recipe, we'll keep buying that." That extra herb is the forward assist. Now, meanwhile - KFC is making a bunch of fried chicken, mostly Original Recipe A1, but still a little bit of Original Recipe. One thing, though - the flour for the batter is provided by the government. The government happens to have a lot of baking soda left over from the last war, though, and they ask KFC if they can buy flour cut with baking soda. KFC says no, but the government says "fuck it, this stuff is way too cheap - we're gonna use it anyways." So, suspecting nothing, KFC keeps making fried chicken - but once it gets to the mess halls, servicemembers are complaining that it tastes like shit. It eventually gets so bad that some soldiers and Marines even start getting food poisoning and even die. It gets so bad that there's even a congressional hearing about how shitty KFC fried chicken is. It turns out that not only was the military using the wrong flour because it was cheaper - they were also serving the chicken out of old drip pans. Eventually things get sorted out, and not only does the government start buying the right flour that they should've been using in the first place - but they realize that they actually do need to tell the mess hall folks to serve the chicken out of the proper buckets. The wrong flour is the powder for the ammunition. The Congressional Hearing... well, they're the Ichord Subcommittee Hearings, and the drip pans are the lack of proper cleaning kits. Of course, by this time, even though the problems get fixed, a lot of people already have a bad taste in their mouth about KFC fried chicken. Even guys that have never eaten the shitty fried chicken begin to assume that all KFC fried chicken sucks and it might kill them, and swear that they're never going to eat KFC ever again, or if they're forced to, complain about it bitterly for years. That's the M16's "reputation." So - that's the KFC version of the M16's history. Using those same analogies, let's turn to the "civilian restaurant" business. 3. The Commercial Market: The Colt SP1 and Commercial Versions of the AR15-pattern Rifle So, KFC's Original Recipe happens to use this special oil to fry it with that the government only safe enough for it to use because it has too much cholesterol, and isn't safe for civilians to consume. At this time, you can still buy the same kind of Original Recipe that the government gets, but you can only get it at bars, where you'll be carded by the bouncer at the door, AND the fried chicken costs twice as much. That "special oil" is full auto, and the bouncer is the NFA. So, in order to open KFCs for everyone, they need to make another version using the "civilian safe" oil. That's fine, you still make the Original Recipe, use the same chicken, use the same batter, it's all still in made in the same kitchen by the same cooks using all the same ingredients - with the government inspectors still there - just, when you go to make it for the restaurant, you use one fryer, the ones for the military, you use the other fryer. It's all still Original Recipe. The "civilian safe" Original Recipe - that's the Colt SP1. So, KFC starts selling Original Recipe in restaurants and people fucking love it. People love it so much, in fact, that people start buying a bunch of KFC and trying to figure out what the recipe is and then opening up their own restaurants and selling their own fried chicken. They don't have access to the Original Recipe, but hell, they know a little something about making chicken, so they figure they can make it pretty close. The first batches are kinda rough, but eventually they pretty much get it close. That's the commercial AR market. Never had, don't use, the TDP, but they're able to figure it out pretty close. Just restating from the above on that point: if someone bought a lot of KFC fried chicken and had a pretty reasonable understanding already of how to make fried chicken, but having had never actually seen the KFC recipe, but then experimented with all sorts of spices and measurements and this and that and combined them together to make fried chicken in the style of KFC, maybe adding their own little changes here and there - using slightly different ingredients, or whatever - you'd have the current commercial AR market.
That's still not a judgment call - chances are, you'd have a certain number of people who thought it was "close enough" to be indistinguishable, a certain number that thought it was "better," a certain number that thought it was "worse," and a certain number who just would rather know what they were getting without having to bite into a piece of chicken first to figure it out, and therefore would just choose to keep going to KFC. Meanwhile - you might also have some people who figured "people can't tell the difference anyways" and bought way cheaper ingredients or used less of or none of some things that they figured "would never be missed" to save some money. You might also have some people who once they got close enough, would think that they could still make it better - and using their reverse-engineered KFC recipe as a base could make gourmet fried chicken. So - on the commercial market, you basically have: KFC Original Recipe - Colt ARs Shittier copies of KFC Original Recipe - some commercial manufacturers Just as good, but still not exactly the same copies of KFC - some commercial manufacturers Little bit better copies of KFC - maybe they use the best copy-cat recipe they can find - but only use organic chicken - some commercial manufacturers Gourmet fried chicken based on a copy-cat KFC recipe - better than mass-produced fast-food KFC could be - some commercial manufacturers - the converse to these guys is that there's no way they could make anywhere near as much fried chicken as KFC does as consistently, and it costs a lot more to get gourmet fried chicken than to buy KFC. KFC, of course, has to use all the MIL-SPECs and MIL-STDs we talked about to make their fried chicken - and while it might be "possible" for them to use a different kitchen for the military and for the commercial market - why would they? They've only got one kitchen to make fried chicken in, and all of the prep stations are already set up for fried chicken - why would they go through all the trouble of setting up another whole prep area just to use a different fryer? Just make all the chicken the same way, except for one or two specific steps. Those are Colt commercial ARs. 4. FN M16s and AR15s: Contracting and FNMI M16/M4s versus the FNH FN-15 Meanwhile: At some point, the government decides that they need more fried chicken than KFC alone can make for their mess halls. So they go looking for someone else to help out. They go to Wendy's, who doesn't make fried chicken - and asks them if they'll make KFC fried chicken. They agree, so the government gives them KFC's recipe, but tells them - "you're only allowed to make KFC for us, and you can't sell KFC fried chicken at any of your other Wendy's locations," also - you have to pay KFC a royalty for every piece of fried chicken you make. Because they're going to make so much money selling fried chicken to the government, though - they agree anyways - turns out Wendy's is so good at making fried chicken, that they can actually make KFC's fried chicken cheaper than KFC can, even while paying KFC a royalty, that Wendy's fried chicken - which is actually KFC's Original Recipe becomes more common in mess halls than KFC's chicken is. Wendy's, in this scenario, is FNMI. Of course, servicemembers least of all are aware of how all this works - all they know is that their fried chicken buckets say "Wendy's" rather than "KFC" - they start going to Wendy's locations off base, and asking "why can't you sell me fried chicken!" This puts Wendy's in a quandary... they can see the obvious profit they can make by their brand recognition, but they also know that according to their agreement with the government, not only can they not sell KFC at their restaurants, but they can't prepare it on the same prep line, and not only that - none of the cooks who've ever seen the KFC Original Recipe can have anything to do with their other fried chicken. Because it would be such a pain to try to set up a whole other prep line, it takes Wendy's twenty years to finally decide that maybe they can make enough profit to justify that - so they set up another prep line on the other side of the kitchen, with new cooks, that has nothing to do with their KFC fried chicken to make Wendy's fried chicken. But because those guys have no access to KFC's Original Recipe, they're basing their fried chicken off of the many copy-cat recipes that are out there already. That's the FN-15. 5. The Modern Armalite: Mark Westrom, Eagle Arms, and the Armalite of Today versus the Original Armalite So... remember the PanAm Food Services guy? Well, turns out, eventually he decided to go work for a gourmet fried chicken company, but he passed away a while back. As for PanAm - they went out of business years ago, but for the purposes of this exercise, let's assume that the name "PanAm Food Services" ended up being bought by another company... say a Filipino one. PanAm Food Services has actually never even sold fried chicken in a restaurant. They served it a couple times on a couple flights, but they never actually made fried chicken as a regular item, not that it matters, because they sold the recipe and everything they had to make fried to chicken to KFC years ago. But hey, there are still a couple of people out there that remember that KFC Original Recipe was originally KFC PanAm Food Services Original Recipe and that they guy that worked for PanAm actually invented the fried chicken recipe that Original Recipe is based on. So, PanAm Food Services operates for a short time more in the Philippines, they never make fried chicken again, and eventually they go out of business again. Along comes this guy Mark. Mark owns a little restaurant called "Falcon Wings" where he, like so many other little restaurants, makes fried chicken, but no one really notices him that much in the wide wide world of fried chicken. Mark realizes - "hey - I bet if I bought the name 'PanAm Food Services,' I could get people to notice me!" So Mark buys the rights to the name "PanAm Food Services" from the Filipinos, along with a couple spatulas and utensils that PanAm Food Services used to use that may or may not have been used to make a piece of the original fried chicken that PanAm served, or that may or may have at one point been touched by the guy who created the original fried chicken recipe, along with some pots and pans that are so beat to hell they're not worth the international shipping to bring them back to the U.S. Nevertheless - Mark starts replacing the Falcon Wings logo and name with "PanAm Food Services" and starts selling his fried chicken as "PanAm" fried chicken, and tells everyone who will listen - "PanAm Food Services was the original maker of Original Recipe fried chicken! We're PanAm Food Services!" It's not that Mark's fried chicken is bad, actually, compared to a lot of fried chicken out there, it's not too bad at all, some even think it's better than KFC. What it's not, however, is neither the original Original Recipe, nor is KFC Original Recipe. Mark, is well, Mark, and "Falcon Wings" is Eagle Arms... needless to say, PanAm food services is still Armalite. So that's today's Armalite. 6. Non-Manufacturer "Assemblers": BCM, PSA, etc. - OEM manufacturers versus Brand Names So, by now - so many people love fried chicken and so many people are buying it that it gets to the point that some restaurants are opening up that don't even have kitchens, but they're still selling fried chicken. So - where are they getting all this fried chicken you, ask? Well, they won't tell you exactly - but you know that they're actually using a caterer. You don't know which one they're using, but you know of a couple caterers out there that are known for making pretty decent fried chicken. And, in this scenario, even Wendy's has a private catering service. These big caterers with nice kitchens can churn out a bunch of fried chicken - they offer a kind of "basic" fried chicken based on a copy-cat original recipe, but they can also make you exactly the kind of fried chicken you want if you give them the specific recipe they want you to make. Not only that, some of the gourmet fried chicken companies are actually fried chicken partially prepared by a caterer, but that they finish before serving - so, maybe they'll get the chicken cut up and battered from a caterer, but then they'll do something "extra special" or use special frying oil or techniques to finish the chicken. These "kitchenless restaurants" are non-manufacturer resellers like BCM and PSA. The problem with this whole thing, though - is that at the end of the day, knowing that two restaurants use Wendy's as a caterer actually tells you nothing about what to expect from the fried chicken. Is it all the same basic fried chicken? Or is one restaurant providing one recipe while another is providing another recipe, and Wendy's is actually making two totally different fried chickens for restaurant "A" versus restaurant "B." The restaurant won't tell you, Wendy's won't tell you - you and a couple of your friends try a blind taste test of exactly one chicken wing a piece and you conclude that "well, they're pretty much the same thing..." because you can't taste a whole lot of difference - but in reality, you have no way of knowing if they're actually the same recipe, if they're different recipes, but so close that you can't tell the difference, if they're totally different - or even if one restaurant ordered 3,000 pieces of chicken but only decided to buy 2,500 pieces after Wendy's made it - so Wendy's, not wanting good fried chicken to go to waste started calling up other restaurants saying "hey, you want 500 pieces of fried chicken? I'll sell it to ya cheap!" The caterers are OEM suppliers - Wendy's is still FNMI. The point being that just because you know company "A" gets parts from FNMI and company "B" also gets parts from FNMI doesn't mean you know anything about the nature of those parts - all you can rely on is to have confidence in the restaurant that they're giving the caterer a good recipe or buying something worthwhile from the caterer. A caterer would make you goddamn mud pie if that's what you asked for and were willing to pay for it - the same goes for OEM suppliers - and since they aren't putting their name on it, they could give a shit about their reputation if you try to sell a goddamn mud pie as a cheese pizza. So, though, PSA gets some barrels from FNMI and BCM gets some barrels from FNMI, that does not mean that PSA barrels are the same thing as BCM barrels - symbolically: BCM =/= FNMI =/= PSA 7. Palmetto State Armory: Awesome or Terrible? also AR15.com and the Internet: Forums versus Real Life While we're on the subject of PSA: PSA is little fried chicken shop that just opened up in town. Now, they, like everyone else are making some variation of a copy-cat KFC Original Recipe, but they, like everyone else, have never actually seen KFC's Original Recipe. What makes PSA weird is that they claim to follow all the rules of fried chicken preparation that are required by the military, and they also claim that they use all high quality ingredients, better ones than most of the other fried chicken joints in town, and right there on the same level as the ingredients that KFC themselves use. What's weird, though - is that they're able to sell their fried chicken for 50% less than any other decent and comparable chicken joint in town. A couple people have tasted it, and they all say "as far as we can tell, it's great fried chicken!" They've made overnight converts that say their fried chicken is way just as good or better than other places' fried chicken, up to and including KFC - except it's way cheaper. Not only that, they run crazy as shit promotions like "five cent chicken wings as long as they last!" that people absolutely love. What no one can figure out for sure is if how they're able to sell chicken so cheap and it still be as good - how can they continue making a profit? If you ask them, you might get a variety of answers - about how they care more about their customers than other restaurants, about how they buy so much fried chicken at once that they're able to afford to sell it so low, that they don't have as many employees as other servers so they don't have as much overhead, etc. Not only that, but you notice that it turns out - Wendy's big catering kitchen is practically in their backyard - they can pretty much just walk over and pick up more fried chicken whenever they need it - no need for delivery vans, drivers, etc. - so you wonder if maybe that's how their chicken is so cheap. Problem is, no one can tell you for sure - they could also be using reject cancer chicken that the USDA "swears they got the whole tumor out," or they could be buying Grade D flour that's more sawdust than grain for their batter - but hey, it looks the same, and the people that eat there don't seem to really notice the taste difference. On top of that, a couple of people that went there early on got a couple of pieces of chicken that had obvious hairs in them or were only half-fried. Just so happens a couple of those customers were also the types that post reviews on Yelp! They go and post a review on Yelp! and everyone else ends up reading it - some of them start blasting the restaurant on the basis of the review and say "HA! I knew it! I knew there was something shady going on! This place sucks!" Thing is though, no one really knows how often this kinda thing happens - there are a couple of negative reviews on Yelp!, a couple of positive reviews, and a whole bunch of customers who've never even heard of Yelp! much less read or post fried chicken reviews there. Of course, you've also got to filter the fact that you have no idea who the reviewers are on Yelp! You might notice a couple of reviewers who tend to review restaurants you've been to and whose reviews you generally seem to agree with, but beyond those few reviewers, you have no way of knowing whether the guy writing the review is someone who has been eating fried chicken for decades and used to work in a fried chicken restaurant - or if it's a guy whose never eaten fried chicken in his life before, much less KFC - and would therefore probably, and accurately in their case - swear that the fried chicken they ate was the best fried chicken they'd ever had. The point, however, is that no one really has any idea why PSA's fried chicken is so much cheaper - and suspicions run the gamut from the way too "butterflies and rainbows" opinions of some folks, to the "cancer chicken" doom and gloom opinions of others - truth is probably somewhere in between. What we do know is that some of their catering is done through Wendy's, that they've sold a couple of pretty fucked up pieces of chicken a couple times that got written up on Yelp! - and unrelated, perhaps to the overall quality of their fried chicken - when you order it - their servers are usually slow as fuck, and it takes forever to get your fried chicken at your table. Whatever they are, what they are not is a fast-food fried chicken purveyor. But hey, for 50% cheaper - and five cent wing nights when you can catch 'em, some people are happy to deal with the slow service. Yelp! is AR15.com and sites like it on the internet. Meanwhile, there might be a couple of reviewers on Yelp! who consider themselves "serious fried chicken connoisseurs" who insist on "KFC or gourmet fried chicken only, if you're not going to eat fried chicken from one of those places, you may as well not even bother eating fried chicken at all." Well, they get sick of all the people on Yelp! saying things like "Wow! BI-LO fried chicken is the best chicken ever!" because they've only ever eaten... like... BI-LO and Hungry Man TV dinner fried chicken, and get pissed at them for "not being serious fried chicken eaters" because fried chicken isn't their be all, end all of existence, and they don't spend every spare moment and dime they have buying and eating fried chicken. So, they say "fuck you, Yelp!" and go off and start their own website, called "Extra Tasty Crispy.net," after a later (and some would argue better) variation of Original Recipe that most of the military is eating now, and aggressively run off, ridicule, and insult anyone whom they consider not to be a "serious fried chicken eater" who dares to open their mouth on ExtraTastyCrispy.net. 8. "Pins and Springs," Forge Marks, and "Piston or DI?": Common Questions and Misunderstandings Explained So - the final three things I'll talk about are "only a couple companies make pins and springs," "what are the forge marks?" and "piston or DI?" 8a. Pins and Springs: To address point one - "only a couple companies make pins and springs." Awesome. Only a couple of companies sell paprika. A lot of spice companies that sell paprika have a couple different "grades" of it ranging from "premium" stuff, to "bargain basement" stuff. Okay, so there are only a couple of spice companies that sell enough spices to make fried chicken. What's your point? Because KFC and Popeye's buy their paprika from the same supplier their fried chicken is the same? Even if they literally used the exact same brand and type and grade of paprika, are you seriously saying because they both use the same paprika KFC fried chicken and Popeye's fried chicken are the same? Paprika is important. Good quality paprika is important. Same goes for pins and springs - it is possible to get shitty quality of both, so you want to try to steer clear of those places that use the paprika that was swept off the floor of the bottling plant and re-bottled in their fried chicken - which may or may not be PSA - honestly, could you tell the difference? I'm not 100% certain that I could either - but it doesn't mean I want to be eating fried chicken made with paprika swept off the floor. At the same time - just because you know that two restaurants are getting their paprika from the same place - that tells you basically nothing about the quality of their fried chicken, other than they're not using shitty paprika. Same thing with "pins and springs." 8b. Forge Marks: Okay, so point two - "these two parts have the same forge marks, so they must be the same." The forge marks on your receivers is roughly equivalent to "what farm did this chicken come from?" Yeah - some farms raise better chickens than others - and it's pretty important that you start with a decent chicken. At the same time - between a live chicken at a farm (the raw forge) and the putting of fried chicken in your mouth (the completed part) there are so many more steps that go into the that transition between "clucking chicken at a farm" and "delicious fried chicken" that for all intents and purposes - as long you know that the chicken didn't come from a nuclear waste plant - what farm that chicken came from is meaningless in the grand scheme of "how good will this fried chicken be?" compared to pretty much every other step in between the two. Both Colt and I can get raw, Cerro forged lowers. Colt is going to finish it in their factory with all their tools, processes, and experience. I'm going to finish mine with Dremel, a cordless drill, and a rat tail file and spray paint it with barbeque paint. But hey - they both have Cerro forge marks - so they're like, practically the same, right? 8c. Piston versus DI: So - one day, someone decided that they kinda liked fried chicken, but they weren't into that whole frying in oil thing, event though it's like basically the center of the whole fried chicken concept, that's neither here nor there. It's messy and it's unhealthy. So, they decide to make fried chicken in one of those air-frying contraptions. Now, I'm not saying fried chicken made in an air-fryer can't be good, but most of that still has little to do with the actual method of frying compared to the cook who's preparing it and the ingredients they use, they just happen to prefer using an air-fryer, they think it has its benefits, and who knows, they may be right. If you want your fried chicken prepared by Chef H&K or LWRCi - well, for the most part, you're gonna have to eat air-fried chicken. It is what it is. On the other hand - there are a lot of these other little fried chicken restaurants that otherwise wouldn't really have anything to distinguish them from other fried chicken restaurants who say - whoa, air-frying! Air frying is awesome! They'll say things like - well it's way healthier, so you can keep running for longer without all the cholesterol, and dude- have you ever tried to clean up after making fried chicken? The oil splatters everywhere, makes a huge mess that takes forever to clean! Shit sucks! You and everyone else should totally only ever eat air-fried chicken instead of that stupid oil-fried chicken. And of course, they'll claim, nah brah, it's totally just as good as KFC even though it's not fried, or maybe even better! Of course - you might ask them or yourself - wait a second - it doesn't use the Original Recipe, it uses a totally different method of preparation - what could it possibly even have to do with KFC in the first place, much less being just as good or better? The two have nothing to do with each other. Some folks might prefer KFC, and some might prefer air-fried, but it's not really a comparison to compare fried chicken with not fried chicken. The thing about air-frying is that yes, it might be cleaner and easier to clean up after because you only use a tiny bit of oil... who really bases whether or not they're going to eat fried chicken on the clean up afterwards, anyways? To paraphrase the late Mitch Hedberg, that's like saying "I don't want to eat this apple, because then it will be a core." It may in fact be healthier, too. Okay, cool. It also requires you to buy this expensive, complicated air-frying machine that you have to figure out how to use - so there's a learning curve... when the only thing you need to fry real fried chicken is a pot, a jug of oil, and the capacity to make fire (or other form of heat). External piston ARs are air-fried chicken. "DI" internal piston ARs are actual fried chicken. Leading to my final thought on that account - somebody comes up to you and says "I've never had fried chicken, but I think I'll really like it, but I'm not sure what kind of fried chicken to get, where should I go?" First of all, even if you think air-fried chicken is better, if you'd really recommend that as a "first time fried chicken eater" please raise your hand. Who knows, the guy may try a couple pieces of fried chicken from here or there, and eventually decide that he does, in fact, like air-fried chicken best. But seriously - for that guy's first and possibly last piece of fried chicken ever, you're going to suggest air-fried chicken because it's healthier, easier to clean up after, and really, really cool? 9. Giving Advice to Beginners: "What brand should I buy?" and "Build versus Buy" Okay - second thought - same question: "I've never had fried chicken before, I think I'll really like it - I went on Yelp! and read some reviews, but all they really did was confuse me talking about a lot of shit I didn't understand like "grass fed free range chicken" and "premium blue ribbon flour" - and then they started getting real weird - talking about how this restaurant doesn't use the right kind of spatula or stir the batter for long enough ("milspec," TDP, batch testing, etc.)... so now, I'm way more confused - all I want to do is to eat a piece of fried chicken - help me!" Things you might say to such a person: Well, I've heard these restaurants here are pretty good - I've been to these, and of course there's always KFC - where at least you know what you're going to get and that it'll be pretty damned good. Or, possibly: Listen, dude, you may eventually settle into exactly the piece of fried chicken that you like best - but for now, for your first piece - just go to KFC, order Original Recipe, and enjoy. Later on, when you have a basis for comparison, you can start hitting up other chicken joints and figure out which one tugs at your heart strings, but right now - KFC is the best advice if you want to get good chicken that you're going to enjoy. Sure, there might be better chicken joints - but there are also worse ones - and there's a lot more of them around than the other kind! What you do not say to such a person would be: Dude, what you have to do is go buy this gourmet chicken. It's twice as expensive as any other fried chicken, but once you eat it, you will never love any other kind of fried chicken ever again. Sounds good in theory - but wait... this guy might not even end up liking fried chicken - or - maybe he would of liked fried chicken, but because you sent a guy to spend twice as much money to get gourmet organic peanut encrusted without knowing he had a peanut allergy - things do not exactly go well when he tastes that chicken, and now he's been soured on the whole experience of fried chicken and swears it off for life, and will never again try a piece of fried chicken. Another thing you would probably not say to this person is: Man, don't buy fried chicken at a restaurant - go to six different grocery stores over the period of a week, because BI-LO has the best price on flour, Publix has the best price on chicken, you can go to Costco to get the spices, and on and on down the line until you have all the ingredients to make fried chicken - and now, go ahead and make fried chicken - I know, you don't actually know anything about fried chicken, and have never actually eaten fried chicken - but don't worry, it's easy - you can watch youtube videos and fry chicken in your very own kitchen! I'm telling you, it's the best option - this way, you'll know you're only adding ingredients that you like, not paying for stuff that you don't like, and it'll make you really really familiar with what it takes to make fried chicken and you'll be a fried chicken expert in no time. Once again - the dude just wants to eat a piece of fried chicken - is this the advice you're going to give? Maybe eventually, after he decides he really likes fried chicken, and wants to get to know more about fried chicken, he'll learn to make his own, but for fuck's sake - how the hell is he even supposed to know what he likes in his fried chicken if he's never had fried chicken that someone else that knew what they were doing made? Whew... well, that was long... Hopefully it'll be able to help someone though. If you've stuck with me this long, thanks, and I hope you've enjoyed the "Fried Chicken Theory" of AR15s. ~Augee |
|
DISCLAIMER:
This is not meant to be a 100% accurate rendering of the exact history of the AR15/M16/M4 series - I have simplified some things, particularly things like the number of variants and the M4 and Sole Source and M4 Addendum thing has been completely omitted for clarity. So - if you read it and you think "well that's not exactly...." realize that I have laid some things out in a way that they will be understandable to total beginners without much background or knowledge - that being said - if anyone thinks that the basic understanding itself I'm conveying is "not quite right" feel free to let me know, and we can figure it out and get it edited for ease of use and clarity - I wrote most of this pretty much off the top of my head, so I may have foibled a couple dates or orders of events or something - once again - if they're material to the understanding for beginners - please feel free to point them out. SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY AND RECOMMENDED READINGS: For those that are interested in reading in more detail, minus the fried chicken analogy, on the history and development of the AR15/M16/M4 Family of Weapons, I have included several additional readings, including many of the sources from which much of the information in the above was taken. Bartocci, Christopher R. Black Rifle II: The M16 Into the 21st Century. Cobourg: Collector Grade Publications, 2004. Print. http://www.amazon.com/Black-Rifle-II-Into-Century/dp/0889353484/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1399270475&sr=8-4&keywords=the+black+rifle "Ekie" "0Colt's USGI M16 Series Variation Guide Edition IV." AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum. AR15.com, 29 June 2005. Web. <http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/296919_.html>. "Ekie" "USGI Colt Carbine Parts Variation Guide Edition IV." AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum. AR15.com, 21 Sept. 2006. Web. <http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/296919_.html>. Stevens, R. Blake, and Edward C. Ezell. The Black Rifle: M16 Retrospective. Vol. 3. Cobourg: Collector Grade Publications, 1992. Print. Modern US Military Small Arms Ser. http://www.amazon.com/The-Black-Rifle-Retrospective-Military/dp/0889351155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399270475&sr=8-1&keywords=the+black+rifle Watters, Daniel E. "A 5.56 X 45 mm "Timeline"" A 5.56 X 45 mm "Timeline": A Chronology of Development by Daniel Watters. The Gun Zone, n.d. Web. <http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html>. Watters, Daniel E. "The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy." Defense Industry Daily. Defense Industry Daily, LLC, n.d. Web. <http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/>. ~Augee |
|
I read it all, pretty good and interesting read.
Maybe have it moved to the AR Basics forum? |
Big thanks to FiftyCalAl for doing what he does!
TN Squire
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson
TN Squire
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson
|
I thinks it awesome. We should tack it so no one will ever read it.  |
The king of the vultures would be no less bent upon preying upon the flock than any of the minor harpies, it was indispensable to be in a perpetual attitude of defence against his beak and claws
|
Augee - thanks for this post. You know a lot more than I but what's your take on the below?
Keeping with the chicken analogy - when manufacturers make changes to the "recipe" - they are deviating outside of known performance envelope based on data and use collected over 40 years across climates and environmental conditions. Just like regression testing computer code, making small changes may have unintended negative consequences that may not be immediately clear. Unlike chicken, having a rifle not work under certain conditions isn't a matter of personal preference (like undersized gas ports in cold weather, or machining tolerances). All that said - new ideas is how the AR has progressed and none of my rifles are "mil spec". I'm just a late adopter as I'll let other people beta test for me. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
Isaiah 1:18 - "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD: "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"
|
One on-topic addition/question: Can you maybe explain on USGI replacements parts supply chain? While Wendy's and KFC might assemble and stamp all their parts in house, are there not also other guys supplying individual bits like chicken tits, the breading, flour, etc?
Specifically, when a bolt breaks, are the armorers only using Colt or FN parts, or is there stuff from LMT, CMT, or other suppliers in the spare parts bin? This relevant not only to "cloning", but to people who maybe own 6920's and wear out the bolt, and would wonder what the actual Military does when they break a bolt on an M4. |
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
May 2006
Posts:
5974
EE: 100% (35)
MO, USA
|
One HELL of a good thread!
The part about ArmaLite was dead on 
As usual, your posts are well thought out and damn accurate. One off the wall comment, there IS a restaurant serving the EXACT same recipe as KFC - Lee's Fried Chicken |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"Take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your clothes and buy one!" Jesus Christ - Luke 22.36
NRA Endowment Member
"Take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your clothes and buy one!" Jesus Christ - Luke 22.36
NRA Endowment Member
|
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
One on-topic addition/question: Can you maybe explain on USGI replacements parts supply chain? While Wendy's and KFC might assemble and stamp all their parts in house, are there not also other guys supplying individual bits like chicken tits, the breading, flour, etc? Specifically, when a bolt breaks, are the armorers only using Colt or FN parts, or is there stuff from LMT, CMT, or other suppliers in the spare parts bin? This relevant not only to "cloning", but to people who maybe own 6920's and wear out the bolt, and would wonder what the actual Military does when they break a bolt on an M4. Only replacements I ever saw in our supply lines/bins were Colt/Diemaco and FN, every now and then an old H&R/GM would pop up. William |
|
Originally Posted By Hydra-shokz:
I like chicken. Tag for later, can't read it all now. This. But thanks for the writeup in advance Augee, your stuff is always interesting 
|
Originally posted by broken_reticle:
"Second thing I learned on ARFCOM was to never google anything suggested. Ever.
Because the first thing I learned on ARFCOM was what a blue waffle was."
"Second thing I learned on ARFCOM was to never google anything suggested. Ever.
Because the first thing I learned on ARFCOM was what a blue waffle was."
|
Awww, you're against new cooks frying their own chicken? Even if it's buy this leg from PlasticLowerChicken.awk, they're running a special, and a wing from ReallyCheapUppers.chick, toss it in the oil for 5 minutes, and you've got fried chicken for under $500? I've heard there's even people who grow their own chicken, and there's one really weird chap that's trying to make chicken out of Legos...
Awesome work, Augee. |
Volunteer for the Feinstein project - help build a functional AR lower out of plastic building blocks! www.FeinsteinProject.org
|
Originally Posted By matticuski:
I enjoyed the read but using the whole article as an analogy is pointless, if someone couldn't understand the layman's terms and needed an analogy, then they probably shouldn't own a rifle period. I think the point was to tell a story in an entertaining way. |
I think the biggest flaw in the analogy is that Colt/KFC still has the secret recipe locked up in the vault. Since the AR specs and multiple decades of maintenace and improvement records are open sourced at this point Colt holds no inherent advantage to holding the original recipe. Their only logical claimed advantage would be their kitchen and staff. While their kitchen might be nice so are many others, as for the staff I'd prefer to avoid UAW workers.
|
|
Originally Posted By ArchInfidel:
I think the biggest flaw in the analogy is that Colt/KFC still has the secret recipe locked up in the vault. Since the AR specs and multiple decades of maintenace and improvement records are open sourced at this point Colt holds no inherent advantage to holding the original recipe. Their only logical claimed advantage would be their kitchen and staff. While their kitchen might be nice so are many others, as for the staff I'd prefer to avoid UAW workers. Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
|
"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking.
It's not me, it's the BRD talking.
| Very creative write up. That took some time. Most of the information isn't that hard to gather yet people don't or can't connect the dots. I appreciate the work and creativity involved in putting this post together. You did a great job man. Thank you. This is one of those few posts that deserve some permanent archiving, sticky, or top of page tack. |
The righteous man walks in his integrity; His children are blessed after him.
|
Thanks for the support, those of you who have offered it - this was written over the course of a couple little "study breaks" in the past couple days that I've basically been camped out at the library writing term papers, which might engage with some of the verboseness.
Don't have time to engage with every question or clarification that has been asked for, but I will get around to it. I will say that as much as possible, I tried to keep it as judgment neutral as possible, though I can't say I resisted the temptation to throw in a jab here or there - otherwise, I feel like my opinions are generally well know enough that it was best to keep the tone neutral if light. That being said, just because it's the most recent one posted - and I can't resist jabbing back (I like Colt. Not exclusively, and I don't own them exclusively, but I like 'em and respect what they've done with the AR since 1959). Originally Posted By ArchInfidel:
I think the biggest flaw in the analogy is that Colt/KFC still has the secret recipe locked up in the vault. Since the AR specs and multiple decades of maintenace and improvement records are open sourced at this point Colt holds no inherent advantage to holding the original recipe. Their only logical claimed advantage would be their kitchen and staff. While their kitchen might be nice so are many others, as for the staff I'd prefer to avoid UAW workers. Originally Posted By ArchInfidel:
I think the biggest flaw in the analogy is that Colt/KFC still has the secret recipe locked up in the vault. Since the AR specs and multiple decades of maintenace and improvement records are open sourced at this point Colt holds no inherent advantage to holding the original recipe. Their only logical claimed advantage would be their kitchen and staff. While their kitchen might be nice so are many others, as for the staff I'd prefer to avoid UAW workers. One might consider in this case the question of the Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 PMags: this statement from MagPul not long after the first PMags were released to wide distribution speaks a bit to what I'm talking about: Well, yes and no. From almost the very beginning we've been individually gauging every single PMAG that leaves the warehouse to fit in the Colt M16 magwell. However, we have tightened up our gauges over time to help the PMAG drop from an ever wider variety of smaller-than-spec magwells. Basically, the older PMAGs are in-spec and will still drop from a Colt M16 but the newer ones are a slight bit smaller.
What is causing all these issues in the first place is two fold: 1. The Colt TDP (Technical Data Package) has never been made available and consequently all AR lowers have been reversed engineered with a wide variety of tolerances. 2. Marketing factors. The in-vogue thing today for manufacturers is to make their magwells smaller and smaller so that USGI alloy mags don't rattle around so much. If mags rattle less in your lower versus the competition then it gives the impression that you build a higher quality product. Hence the incentive to make a tight well. The question has also been asked in the past of why a PMAG may not drop when most of the time a USGI alloy mag will? The reasoning is that aluminum sheet metal can be made pretty thin which gives a decent amount of room to work with. However, due to the increased wall thickness necessary for a robust polymer magazine along with our smoother-feeding constant-curve internal geometry we need all the magwell space we can get as afforded by the Colt design. Justin Beard Magpul Industries Tech Support / Customer Service ~Augee |
|
Magpul continuing to advance their magazines only somewhat has to do with the fact that there are numerous tolerance differences between AR manufacturers.
This all gets back to the vast amount of different companies machining AR lowers now as well. Just because Billy Bob of Garage Tactical has vastly different tolerances does not mean that BCM does as well. The point is that this "secret recipe" is far from entirely a secret to everyone. Even a guy with history nostalgia of the platform has gotta know with certainty that's the case, and that today's "best" offerings in the platform not only meet, but also exceed the "original recipe." On a related note to the original recipe as a company...unions, just like liberal politicians - destroying this country a little bit more each day from within. No one should be supporting that. |
"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking.
It's not me, it's the BRD talking.
|
I'd like, as much as possible, to preserve the neutrality of this thread, I don't want it to turn into either a Colt bashing or Colt cheerleading thread.
I'd ask as much as possible that others refrain unnecessary comments regarding "Colt worse/Colt better" - we've already got plenty of those threads. ~Augee |
MIL-SPEC, MIL-STD, TDP and More, Explained: Colt, KFC, and the Fried Chicken Theory of the AR15 (Page 1 of 3)
AR Sponsor