Well more parts got ordered today. Ordered the Badger Ordnance MK12 GB and Colt rifle length gas tube from Brownells, and the long collar, AEMB, and thread protector from Adco. Need to slow down lol this is already getting expensive. Only main stuff left is AEM5 and glass. Eventually I’ll swap the Aero and Anderson receivers out. In the interest of putting money towards the big purchases for this, I’m gonna run a NiB Aim BCG. Don’t beat me too bad lol

Finally got a Mark 4 to replace the VX-R Patrol I was running on my rifle:





I know, it's not the clone correct Mark 4 either, but I wanted something in first focal plane and I'm going to see if I can get the turrets converted to mils:

What’s up with your barrel? Just asking. 20” with Ops contour?

He's up in Canuckistan, that's a 20". We've been twisting his arm to get an 18" Ops spun up since I think that's one of those really nice Colt HBARs.

Oh ok makes sense. I’m not that educated on Canadian gun laws.

Long time lurker, looking to pick up a used Mk12 Mod 0 clone(ish) from a local shop.
Here's the thing...I'm not a huge fan of the optic included, which is (from what I can discern) a Leupold MK 4 3.5-10 LR/T M3 (mildot, illuminated, 1 click = 1 min, m3 turrets).

Since this collective group is considerably more knowledgeable than myself on this historic rifle, can someone let me know if a) this optic would sell quickly on EE and b) the estimated value, assuming the optic is in good condition? What about the ARMS 22 Rings?

Thank you in advance for any insight y'all can provide.

EDIT -- Looks like a similar scope sold on EE last month for $825, still open to any feedback/insight anyone can provide. Thanks.

You won't have any problems selling the scope/rings on the EE.

Awesome, thanks!

To provide some further context on this, the confusion is largely coming from ADCO's website where they list the long collar as correct for a Mod 0 and short collar as correct for a Mod 1 (as previously pointed out).

Nobody knows why they did this but it's wrong.

Towards the end of the Ops 12th manufacturing (of actual Ops manufactured cans) as far as we know all production was shifted from the long collar to the short collar (for the reason BurtSaun mentioned in the quote).

It's the same idea as DD opening up the gas ports on their commercial uppers. Long collars worked for the military with a set of fixed barrels all manufactured the same way with the same tolerances. Try to sell that same part on the civilian market where everyone's using the latest wonder-barrel that was made with different specs, and you have problems. Shorten up the collar, the problems go away.

So there was this whole period in time where the only collar you could actually order & buy was the short collar. This was after military Mk 12 production stopped so every Mk 12 in the military already had a long collar on it (which was fine because they also used properly manufactured barrels on the Mod 0s / SPRs). And then Ops Inc went out of business and along with it the chance to have proper long collars manufactured again. (que up companies like Badger trying to help with this)

During this period of time, cloning started picking up and you had places like High Caliber Sales making clones and selling them as "Accurate Mk 12" clones even though they were largely substituting correct parts for modern, currently manufactured parts. As cloning continued throughout the years, people got more and more anal about details (and more and more information became available) and so things like NLS #22 rings, collar length, etc… started to be paid attention to.

Then Allen Engineering pops up with a new FFL and starts making Ops cans again. The community, now much more detailed in cloning, made requests for things like long collars and knurling on cans and he happily obliged. ADCO has stock of both the long and shorts and tried to differentiate the two on their website and sees a ton of Mod 1 clones out there with short collars and so that's how they organize them on the website. This is all just an educated guess but it's likely.

The point being, it's really nice that we actually have long collars available right now. That wasn't always the case which is why there are so many short collars and clones with short collars out there. But the long collar is the only correct collar for any Mk 12 clone and the only reason you'd ever want a short one is to deal with a messed up barrel on a Mod 0/SPR as BurtSaun said.

[Lol, yes, it's a 20" Colt HBAR and it shoots great so I was hesitant to chop it down to 18”.  
I would also have no idea what to do with the Colt barrel if I did end up getting the correct Ops/Douglas barrel.  I already have two other 20” ARs so I figured I’d just leave it and hope nobody would notice, lol!

How long is the long collar? I bought this from brownells (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/muzzle-devices/compensators-amp-muzzle-brakes/ar-15-12th-model-muzzle-brake-kit-22-caliber-prod55418.aspx) and assumed it was correct. Pictures make it look short though.

Edit: I measured it (the collar) and it is 1". That is the short?

Thanks

this is the one to buy - long collar , also far cheaper.

long collar brake kit

How hard is it to swap the collars?

an inconvenience to remove the brake more than anything.

So I couldn’t find it anywhere that said it specifically, so I guess I’ll ask. What optic would be most correct for a Navy Mod 1? Also, are there any other parts for the Mod 1 that were  seen on Navy rifles?

My Aem5 is currently on month 5 of a 12 month NFA jail sentence and when I went to visit it, I realized that It wasn’t knurled. Am I SOL?

Yup.

Short... long collar is noticeably longer, and measures 1.25" (Actually, 1.27 on my Brown&Sharpe).  I'm building up a Mod H now, and just ordered another kit from Operation Parts which specifies it includes the long collar - http://www.operationparts.com/allen-engineering-mk12-mod-1-threaded-muzzle-brake-and-collar-5-56-22-cal/

I wouldn't sweat it to be honest - knurled AE5's weren't readily available for a long time - there are plenty of guys running the non-knurled here.  Unless your dealer has one and will let you swap - not sure if that's even possible paperwork-wise, though.  But I wouldn't bother since you are already in wait period.

Here is a mk12 supposedly in service somebody on the Facebook group posted up. Pic came from somebody deployed. I'm thinking of cloning this. Not sure if I'll hack up my current mod 1, maybe a second mod 1?

In the SEALs museum, they have a TS30A2 with their MOD1 on display, so I'd assume that.

Interesting... M4 lower? Woodland MARPAT (on the left)?

Ah ok. And the 3.5-10 was never seen on Mod 1s? Cause if it was seen, that'd be awesome. I love the 3.5-10 range.

Or nightforce 2.5-10x24. In my mind, that's the most navy of the optics, even though the army used some of them as well

Ok sweet so I need either the 2.5-8 Leupy or the NF 2.5-10. I know the 24 is really hard to find so the 32 or the 40 are acceptable alternatives?

If you want an NSW Mod1 clone, go with the NF 2.5-10x24mm.

The x24s are still out there pretty regularly, you're just going to pay full price on them. Lots of guys using the 32, an acceptable alternative. Though I'd just not even think about another optic and go for the x24 NF, in low light it sucks, but otherwise it's fantastic. Hell, I did ONE click of adjustment on my mod 1 to right it in at 100 yards, total fluke thing but made me a believer in that optic

Yeah I've noticed that people are quite proud of their used x24s but the x32s and x42s are hundreds cheaper.

I've used all 3. The x24 is cool and looks badass on a rifle but the x32 and x42 are far more forgiving and enjoyable to be behind. I have the x42 on my recce now and wouldn't go back to the others.

Tangentially, we've been seeing more "Recce" rifles lately wearing x32 NFs, from same time frame Mod 1s were around. I'd say the past claims that 2.5-10x32s were used on Mod 1s have enough circumstantial evidence at this point to not sweat running one. We might never see a pic of one, or it might still be a few more years until one of those gentlemen decides to post one on Instagram.

I've not seen these pics, got any examples?

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Yeah ive never seen one as much as they are claimed to be used.  Not that i doubt anyone but it seems like the closest reasoning was that the mk17 had them equipped and someone took one off them and placed it on a mk12.

I am on the hunt for the "correct" ARMS 22 Rings. The ones issued were High no-stop, correct? I have a set of 22's on my M1A that are NS, but can anyone tell if they are highs or medium? Are using med's a clone sin?

No Hump/No Lever stop are correct - but hard to find, so you are ahead of the game :).

It depends - are you building a Mod 0 or Mod H - then you will need the Med Rings anyway.  If building a Mod 1 - High rings are used, but you could instead add an ARMS #36 sleeve (riser) and then use your Med's there as well.  Or source a set of High's - they pop up on the EE from time to time.

Hey guys, need some help here.  Besides the turrent knobs, what makes the 112633 the scope besides the TMR?  I have a line on a 2.5-8x36 but with incorrect knobs but has TMR reticle.  Also is it hard to get the correct knobs for it?  I have a 112633 but an looking to build a Mod H with one and dont wanna take it off my mk12

Is there an NSN number for the MK12 Mod 1 upper only?

...so no follow-up on my reply to this?

Thanks
I have a Mod1 and it has the later #22Highs on it now... I would like to replace them with a set that are "more correct".
So my Med's would would work with the #36? That may be the easier route it looks like #22H's are hard to come by and are costly when found. Unless I find a set of #22H's then sell my med rings to someone working on a mod0 or H to offset the cost of the #22H's.

Were any of the Mod1's issued with the leftovers from the Mod0's with the addition of the riser. If not,  will just find a set of NS #22H.

I'm not sure what you were wanting, but I understood your comments and got to work supporting them.

Yes I got some information this morning after getting a callback and it does look like that the Holland stock  is the 3rd gen.  Basically from what the person told me they made the changes Hoping to improve the design but it didn't which is why they went to this most recent design.  I guess they had a lot of problems with broken buffer tubes which doesn't surprise me having one.  I'll update pg 1 tonight when I get home and am not typing on a phone.

Feel free to IM me in the future if you think I'm ignoring you or not handling the page correctly.  Always open to criticism.

Here's a pretty famous Mod 1 with the extended riser... :)  There is also a shorter version, but I'm struggling to find an ITW pic - but it's on the ARMs website.

Thanks for digging that up... The riser looks pretty badass to me.

Kinda wish I'd have kept mine, especially after going with the big NF.

Oh man don't say that, how big of a NF?  I'm putting a 3.5-15x50 on mine, and moving the 2.5-10x24 to the Mod H/recce rail setup.

I am using a Badger UniMount on the Mod1 though, so I am thinking it will work ok with the 3.5-15

The Unimount is the ideal setup since there's less parts stuck together; you'll love it with that scope. I just went back to that exact mount with the 3.5-15x NF. I just like the look of the top-rail and lower rings.

I wish that you had sold it to me lol It looks like the #36s-ex 5.56 is just as hard to find as the 22H NS rings.

Is the same KAC 600M sight for the Mod 1 the same one that was occasionally seen on the M16A4s?

Don’t think so. The BUIS on Mod 1s should have the bigger profile. You’ll see two versions of it when you look it up. The USMC one has a smaller profile and isn’t clone correct I think. I can’t post pictures but included a link comparing the two versions. The left side one is the one you want.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?103186-KAC-buis-micro-or-standard-rear

It’s a thread but the pictures are close to the top of it.