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Official SAM-R and SDM-R photo and discussion thread.....yep we are doing this again. (Page 1 of 29)
Posted: 7/29/2015 12:54:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M249_junky][Edited]
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I know there have been a few threads on the USMC Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle over the years. Word is there were only about 100 ever fielded but it is still a cool build. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/389104__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Show_us_your_SDM_R.html&page=1 The SDM-R specs. Per Wiki that I can only assume some of the guys here contributed to. The original test weapon was a modified M16A4 rifle with a free-floated 1:7 stainless steel match grade heavy barrel, a "M1913 modular rail system" (this most likely implies the use of the Knight's Armament Company Free-Floating Rail Adapter System) and an M16A1 trigger assembly (semi and full-auto functioning). A number of day optics were used initially, which included Hensoldt Blitz, Leupold CQ/T, ACOG, Leupold TS-30A1 and ultimately the Leupold TS-30A2. The test night optic was the AN/PVS-17B, apparently now being fielded with USMC combat units though the AN/PVS-22 is preferred. The later SAM-R was roughly a modified M16A4 pattern rifle:
ETA Posted the wong pic and adding more info.  Per request I'm adding in the Army SDM-R rifle to the thread as well. Specifications[edit]
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Yay...a clone thread with an EVEN HARDER to find part than the MK12! 
Does anyone have any photo proof of this: The first SAM-Rs used a custom Quantico-built gas block with bayonet lug and Picatinny rail on top. A KAC flip-up sight was mounted on that rail. |
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Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Yay...a clone thread with an EVEN HARDER to find part than the MK12!
Does anyone have any photo proof of this: Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Yay...a clone thread with an EVEN HARDER to find part than the MK12!
Does anyone have any photo proof of this: The first SAM-Rs used a custom Quantico-built gas block with bayonet lug and Picatinny rail on top. A KAC flip-up sight was mounted on that rail. |
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Also, one note to add to the parts list:
If anyone can turn up a source, that would be great, but I *swear* I heard the Marine Corps used some recycled S&B 3-12x50mm Gen II Mil-Dot scopes from the scout snipers on a few of the SAMRs. |
"Every argument against machine gun ownership is, at its very core, an assault on the virtue and integrity of the men that would use them." --Undefined
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
I am by no means discouraging anyone from pursuing their SAMR dreams, there is some food for thought in this article: Marine brass endorses infantry plan to ditch M16 for M4 From the article (emphasis added): From Larry Vickers: IMHO, the SAMR is a platform that is trying to squeeze .308 performance out of a 5.56. For the kind of range it is intended for, I think a shooter would be much more better equipped with a precision .308 AR. If I were trying to clone a precision AR, I'd be looking to do the Mk11 Mod 0, but that's just me---sorry if that is too much of a tangent.
On the flip side, I do think the SAMR is a very sexy build and wish anyone interested in cloning it the very best of luck in finding the parts. Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
I am by no means discouraging anyone from pursuing their SAMR dreams, there is some food for thought in this article: Marine brass endorses infantry plan to ditch M16 for M4 From the article (emphasis added): To strike the enemy beyond the range of the M4 or even the M16, each Marine fire team already has an M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, which in semi-auto with its free-floating barrel and precision trigger also now doubles as the designated marksman's rifle. It's a role that will no longer be filled by the Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle, a match-grade M16 with a scope. From Larry Vickers: "Some argue beyond that the M4 carbine lacks effectiveness versus the M16, but the M16 is like driving a sports car with a six-cylinder engine," he said, because it is limited by the same small 5.56mm cartridge as the M4. "You can shoot 400 to 500 yards away, but you are still shooting a 5.56." A longer barrel would make sense with a heavier hitting round like the .308, but unless Marines are given a larger caliber Vickers said the M4 is "bringing so much more to the table." IMHO, the SAMR is a platform that is trying to squeeze .308 performance out of a 5.56. For the kind of range it is intended for, I think a shooter would be much more better equipped with a precision .308 AR. If I were trying to clone a precision AR, I'd be looking to do the Mk11 Mod 0, but that's just me---sorry if that is too much of a tangent.
On the flip side, I do think the SAMR is a very sexy build and wish anyone interested in cloning it the very best of luck in finding the parts. I feel compelled to tell you that you're a party pooper. 
Post your shit wheelman! Subbed. |
In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
If it aint a clone or the gun being cloned, it aint shit.
If it aint a clone or the gun being cloned, it aint shit.
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Found this going through an old thread Origonialy posted by R0N
From the Limited Tech Assessment SAM-R 1 • Olympic Arms FIRSH free float tube • Colt heavy barrel, chrome-lined, 1:7 twist • No flip-up sights • KMC scope riser rail • KMC low profile scope rings • Standard flash hider  SAM-R 2 • PRI specific parts (Free Float tube, charging handle, pop-up front sight) • A.R.M.S. rear pop-up sight • Krieger 20-inch Stainless barrel 1:7 twist • A.R.M.S. SPR full length rail • KMC low profile scope rings • Standard flash hider  SAM-R 3 and SAM-R 5 • KMC Free Float Tube (FFRAS) • Krieger 20-inch Stainless Steel Barrel with 1:7.75 twist • KMC riser rail • KMC scope rings • KMC front folding sight • KMC rear folding sight • Standard flash hider  SAM 4 • KMC Free Float Tube (FFRAS) • Douglas Chrome-moly Heavy Barrel with 1:8 twist • KMC scope riser rail • Badger low profile scope rings • Standard flash hider  |
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Originally Posted By cowboy: KAC should really make a few hundred dozen batches of the sights and rails for those. And just a thought 249, but we may get a little more traffic if you include SDM-R's as well. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
Jelly.... i haz it 
ETA: QUESTION: Did the USMC ever put carbine or SOPMOD stocks on the SAM-R? |
"Every argument against machine gun ownership is, at its very core, an assault on the virtue and integrity of the men that would use them." --Undefined
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Originally Posted By M249_junky:
I know there have been a few threads on the USMC Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle over the years. Word is there were only about 100 ever fielded but it is still a cool build. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/389104__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Show_us_your_SDM_R.html&page=1 The SDM-R specs. Per Wiki that I can only assume some of the guys here contributed to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle The original test weapon was a modified M16A4 rifle with a free-floated 1:7 stainless steel match grade heavy barrel, a "M1913 modular rail system" (this most likely implies the use of the Knight's Armament Company Free-Floating Rail Adapter System) and an M16A1 trigger assembly (semi and full-auto functioning). A number of day optics were used initially, which included Hensoldt Blitz, Leupold CQ/T, ACOG, Leupold TS-30A1 and ultimately the Leupold TS-30A2. The test night optic was the AN/PVS-17B, apparently now being fielded with USMC combat units though the AN/PVS-22 is preferred.
The later SAM-R was roughly a modified M16A4 pattern rifle:
ETA Posted the wong pic and adding more info. <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/USMC_M16_SAMR.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/USMC_M16_SAMR.jpg</a> Here's my contribution, the pic is old as it still had a Lauer lower on it that I sold to a friend, I and am currently milling out an FN A4 lower by member Braceman. Once I finish up milling/anodizing I'll post pics. Also, two things I'd like to add to the list/parts used: No SAM-R I ever encountered had a QDSS flash hider, they all wore an A2, and the Harris was also usually mounted via a Knight's bipod stud, the ARMS made it "ride to high." The parts used are as follows: Tactical Machinery lower w/ FN M16A4 engraving Knight’s Two-Stage Match Trigger Colt Lower Parts Kit minus FCG Colt “Tick” Safety Selector F/A Norgon Ambidextrous Magazine Catch Colt A2 Buttstock Assembly FN M16A4 Upper w/ FN Bolt Control Group PRI Gas Buster Charging Handle Compass Lake 20" Heavy SS NM Barrel Knight’s Flip-Up Sight Gas Block Knight’s Free-Float RAS Knight's 600-Meter BUIS Colt A2 Flash Hider Leupold Mk4 2.5-8x36 M2 Illum. P/N 112633 A.R.M.S. #22 High Rings PVS-14 NVG Mount PEQ-2 Mount Knight’s Push-Button Sling Mount Knight's Bipod Stud Harris Bipod 6-9” HBRMS w/ PODLOC Turner Saddlery 54” Tan NM Sling 
William |
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Jelly.... i haz it
ETA: QUESTION: Did the USMC ever put carbine or SOPMOD stocks on the SAM-R? None that I've seen. All A2's. |
In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
If it aint a clone or the gun being cloned, it aint shit.
If it aint a clone or the gun being cloned, it aint shit.
|
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
I am by no means discouraging anyone from pursuing their SAMR dreams, there is some food for thought in this article: Marine brass endorses infantry plan to ditch M16 for M4 From the article (emphasis added): From Larry Vickers: IMHO, the SAMR is a platform that is trying to squeeze .308 performance out of a 5.56. For the kind of range it is intended for, I think a shooter would be far better equipped with a precision .308 AR. If I were trying to clone a precision AR, I'd be looking to do the Mk11 Mod 0, but that's just me---sorry if that is too much of a tangent.
On the flip side, I do think the SAMR is a very sexy build and wish anyone interested in cloning it the very best of luck in finding the parts. Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
I am by no means discouraging anyone from pursuing their SAMR dreams, there is some food for thought in this article: Marine brass endorses infantry plan to ditch M16 for M4 From the article (emphasis added): To strike the enemy beyond the range of the M4 or even the M16, each Marine fire team already has an M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, which in semi-auto with its free-floating barrel and precision trigger also now doubles as the designated marksman's rifle. It's a role that will no longer be filled by the Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle, a match-grade M16 with a scope. From Larry Vickers: "Some argue beyond that the M4 carbine lacks effectiveness versus the M16, but the M16 is like driving a sports car with a six-cylinder engine," he said, because it is limited by the same small 5.56mm cartridge as the M4. "You can shoot 400 to 500 yards away, but you are still shooting a 5.56." A longer barrel would make sense with a heavier hitting round like the .308, but unless Marines are given a larger caliber Vickers said the M4 is "bringing so much more to the table." IMHO, the SAMR is a platform that is trying to squeeze .308 performance out of a 5.56. For the kind of range it is intended for, I think a shooter would be far better equipped with a precision .308 AR. If I were trying to clone a precision AR, I'd be looking to do the Mk11 Mod 0, but that's just me---sorry if that is too much of a tangent.
On the flip side, I do think the SAMR is a very sexy build and wish anyone interested in cloning it the very best of luck in finding the parts. All this also applied to the Mk12, so no real need to reiterate it. The SAM-R and Mk12 were just evolutionary steps along the way of the continuing story of the M16 platform. |
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman: What fun would that be. And just a thought 249, but we may get a little more traffic if you include SDM-R's as well. Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By cowboy: KAC should really make a few hundred dozen batches of the sights and rails for those. And just a thought 249, but we may get a little more traffic if you include SDM-R's as well. |
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Originally Posted By M249_junky: uuuggggg......fine....we will do both Originally Posted By M249_junky: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By cowboy: KAC should really make a few hundred dozen batches of the sights and rails for those. And just a thought 249, but we may get a little more traffic if you include SDM-R's as well.  I'm not even gonna look for a DD m4. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman: No, "we" will do SAM-R's, "they" can do SDM-R's. I'm not even gonna look for a DD m4. Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By M249_junky: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By cowboy: KAC should really make a few hundred dozen batches of the sights and rails for those. And just a thought 249, but we may get a little more traffic if you include SDM-R's as well. I'm not even gonna look for a DD m4. But the SAM-R is my priority. |
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Originally Posted By M249_junky: Haha. I've actually been looking for one for about a month now. I've found a few of the 9.0 FSP but that's about it. But the SAM-R is my priority. Originally Posted By M249_junky: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: <snip> I'm not even gonna look for a DD m4. But the SAM-R is my priority. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman: It's normally not my style, but I gave up looking for a old 12.0 a long time ago. Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By M249_junky: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: <snip> I'm not even gonna look for a DD m4. But the SAM-R is my priority. |
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Progress thus far. <a href="https://flic.kr/p/vCkqZg" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/505/19445531313_a3f1e9de9c_o.jpg</a> Barrel and gas block are en route to ADCO for pinning. Optics and a few small parts are still needed. 
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Originally Posted By M249_junky: Sweet how long till its done? Originally Posted By M249_junky: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Got an email from Steve this mornin'. Just posted a WTB for a Norgon ambi-catch and a KAC 200-600m rear sight. After that, it's time to save for a ts30a2. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By RadOP: Per request from wheelman. BCM SAM-R thats been in our "library" for a few years. Waiting on 22H's from ARMS. http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m580/rcmartin1/IMG_1536_zps4krbxauk.jpg Preferably "Librarian".  |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Tell Mr. H I'll trade him a pair of #22's for a job. Preferably "Librarian".
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By RadOP:
Per request from wheelman. BCM SAM-R thats been in our "library" for a few years. Waiting on 22H's from ARMS. http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m580/rcmartin1/IMG_1536_zps4krbxauk.jpg Preferably "Librarian".
[email protected]
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Originally Posted By nchapa: So where can i find a kac gas block front sight combo? Is there a substitute thats available? No substitute. Unless you want to build the early version, which I'm sure is probably harder to find. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By nchapa:
So where can i find a kac gas block front sight combo? Is there a substitute thats available? No substitute. I got mine from Operation Parts. Put my email in their notification. Can't remember how long it took, but I had completely forgotten about it. One day I get an email that it was in stock. There was only one so I pounced. |
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Originally Posted By RadOP: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By RadOP: Per request from wheelman. BCM SAM-R thats been in our "library" for a few years. Waiting on 22H's from ARMS. http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m580/rcmartin1/IMG_1536_zps4krbxauk.jpg Preferably "Librarian". [email protected] Put in a good word for me. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By StevieJ309: There's a 12" DD M4 rail for sale on TOS. ETA: After further review, I believe this is "octagonal" as well.  |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By Davey_Sickboy: I just ended up buying the 2-600 from Operation Parts. Tried getting it used for awhile, gave up. The offers I was getting, it was worth buying it new with their Military discount. Waitin' to see how it goes. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
PM sent. Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By M249_junky:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
There's a 12" DD M4 rail for sale on TOS. Wait until you have one with the correct collar and all the correct markings BUT has the website address as well....I took a while, but I traded someone for one that did not have the website on it...
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-Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. ~ One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
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Originally Posted By gunnut003: Wait until you have one with the correct collar and all the correct markings BUT has the website address as well....I took a while, but I traded someone for one that did not have the website on it... Originally Posted By gunnut003: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By M249_junky: Originally Posted By StevieJ309: There's a 12" DD M4 rail for sale on TOS. Wait until you have one with the correct collar and all the correct markings BUT has the website address as well....I took a while, but I traded someone for one that did not have the website on it... ...for now. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
If it had the right retaining ring, I probably would've bought it for that price. As it stands, I can live with a SAM-R being my only 20". ...for now. Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By gunnut003:
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By M249_junky:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
There's a 12" DD M4 rail for sale on TOS. Wait until you have one with the correct collar and all the correct markings BUT has the website address as well....I took a while, but I traded someone for one that did not have the website on it... ...for now. (NotSo)SecretDMRman So I see your WTB advert is still up for the FF RAS. Recce or Mod 1 next?
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Originally Posted By Hunterex: (NotSo)SecretDMRman So I see your WTB advert is still up for the FF RAS. Recce or Mod 1 next? Thinkin' about replacing my mk2 mod1 with it, slap on a BE Meyers and call it good. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Recce. Thinkin' about replacing my mk2 mod1 with it, slap on a BE Meyers and call it good. Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By Hunterex:
(NotSo)SecretDMRman So I see your WTB advert is still up for the FF RAS. Recce or Mod 1 next? Thinkin' about replacing my mk2 mod1 with it, slap on a BE Meyers and call it good. I kind of figured you were going to go that way. If I ever get tired of the Mod 1 it'll go that route. |
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Originally Posted By cmcflex: Isn't this the non-octagonal ring? There seem to be quite a few variations on these rails in terms of markings and retaining ring. http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/M16A4-AMU.245190550_large.jpg |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
That is what "they" refer to as octagonal. The round ring is the one I posted earlier. Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By cmcflex:
Isn't this the non-octagonal ring? There seem to be quite a few variations on these rails in terms of markings and retaining ring. http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/M16A4-AMU.245190550_large.jpg Damn, you're correct. The closer I look it's octagonal, not round. I scored a great-condition M4 12.0 FSP on Gunbroker a couple of weeks ago for $180. It has the round ring, though, and of course is not correct for this build. I thought about doing a DEVGRU recce with it and a Lilja barrel and the KAC FSB gas block, but that seemed a little too hodgepodge. Decided to just put it on my M4A1 PR and wait for a FF RAS to do recce right. |
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Originally Posted By cmcflex: Damn, you're correct. The closer I look it's octagonal, not round. I scored a great-condition M4 12.0 FSP on Gunbroker a couple of weeks ago for $180. It has the round ring, though, and of course is not correct for this build. I thought about doing a DEVGRU recce with it and a Lilja barrel and the KAC FSB gas block, but that seemed a little too hodgepodge. Decided to just put it on my M4A1 PR and wait for a FF RAS to do recce right. Originally Posted By cmcflex: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By cmcflex: Isn't this the non-octagonal ring? There seem to be quite a few variations on these rails in terms of markings and retaining ring. http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/M16A4-AMU.245190550_large.jpg Damn, you're correct. The closer I look it's octagonal, not round. I scored a great-condition M4 12.0 FSP on Gunbroker a couple of weeks ago for $180. It has the round ring, though, and of course is not correct for this build. I thought about doing a DEVGRU recce with it and a Lilja barrel and the KAC FSB gas block, but that seemed a little too hodgepodge. Decided to just put it on my M4A1 PR and wait for a FF RAS to do recce right. |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
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Originally Posted By gunnut003: Different angle https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/SquadDesignatedMarksmen.jpg  |
"Together we stand; never fall. No matter the trial. We will overcome."
Official SAM-R and SDM-R photo and discussion thread.....yep we are doing this again. (Page 1 of 29)
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