Long stroke gas piston vs short stroke gas piston. Which of the two would have less felt recoil? Carrier tilt? I will get a roller cam pin regardless of which one. I think that's everything that's important to think about or what may have a problem in the future. If there's anything I'm missing or should also take into consideration, feel free to tell me.

LWRC - not paying gucci prices
LMT - not paying gucci prices
Adams Arms - want something better than entry
Wolf T91 - want something better than entry
POF - heard a lot of issues with puritan and minuteman
HK/Sig - nah (caracal is basically anyway)

So I'm left with those 2. Hmm

VKTR Industries Vk-1. I believe it’s a licensed lwrc piston system

The parent company is a big OEM manufacturer.  I have a 10.5” complete gun that k like so much I sbred and have shot the hell out of.  I did remove the ambi mag release cause I’m not wrong handed and it would bump on gear.

https://www.vktrind.com/

Have PWS 16" and 11.85" and both are great, reliable, accurate.  Would recommend.

PWS has the best piston system on the market in my opinion.   Have a 7.62x39 (11”) and it runs as good as an AK

I've owned all of these and of what I still own my preference is

LMT
LWRC
Caracal

LWRC and Caracal would be a tie, but the quality of all parts on the LWRC are observably nicer so it gets the tie breaker. The Caracal is very nice and runs, but handling and eyeballing it there isn't anything particularly impressive about it.

My feeling on PWS vs Caracal is basically consumer gun vs gun with a military pedigree. If that doesn't matter to you, then the PWS will have a better quality of fit and finish. I've owned two PWS and there's nothing wrong with them, they just felt like hobby guns to me.

Since you've owned them all. Out of the PWS and Caracal which would you say has softer recoil and ease for follow up shots? Thanks

Since you've owned them all. Out of the PWS and Caracal which would you say has softer recoil and ease for follow up shots? Thanks

short stroke systems have a sharper recoil impulse than long stroke. But we're talking 5.56 so do you even notice?

The PWS has a recoil impulse that feels odd. It's like you can feel that action doing it's thing. It feels slow and mechanical and it draws attention to itself because it's so different than any other AR you've shot. You won't notice what I just mentioned in an 11", but you will in a 14.5 or 16".

That said, the 11" PWS is a really excellent suppressor host. I gave mine to my son out of spite when the whole pistol brace thing went down and he loves it.

So the recoil would be less on the PWS, but yeah, 5.56 so it kind of doesn't really matter anyway?

I'm deciding on the 11.85" from PWS or 11.5" from Caracal. I am suppressing it. So you would say go with the PWS?

Thank you.

I owned two PWS and my son has both of them now. I own a Caracal and it's not going anywhere. Draw your own conclusions :)

here's mine on the PWS lower it used to sit on. Fit was sloppy so I got an LMT Defender lower for it and it fits like a glove, no pic.

If you should ever need customer support, PWS has been fantastic.   That was a few years ago and they took care of the issue without any fuss.  

I also give the best to my kids, and I do without.   Good on you sir.

I got the PWS for the softer recoil impulse. Also better CS thanks all

I’ve had Sig, POF, Wolf, and PWS.  All have been fine but the 11” PWS remains my go to rifle.

I have a PWS 11.85 mod 2, love that thing, and I'm an LWRC whore... my PWS is setup for Surefire cans, have a RC1 and RC3 that I've run on it. Gun shoots laser beams and has been completely reliable.

I have two, a LMT and a PWS with a 14.5" barrel and they are both fantastic.  If I had to pick one, would be the LMT.

Can you elaborate why?

I can, they're the absolute best. Worth every penny. It's the last gun I'd ever get rid of.

Buddy. The dude who posted about the VKTR is the rifle you want. It's the softest shooting because it bleeds off gas. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignorant as in they never shot a VK1.

The PWS is also soft shooting as it also bleeds off gas, and is adjustable.

I would be  interested in tangible reasons other than “it’s the best” on upgrading to an LMT though

I guess I don't understand when we talk about soft shooting 223s. They're all soft shooting. It's the softest shooting rifle you'll ever handle. The actions work differently. Subjectively, the LWRC to me feels like it has the sharpest recoil impulse. The most noticeable recoil impulse out of all of them is the PWS. It's moving more mass. You feel it. It also feels like the amount of time the action takes to cycle is slower, so you have this large mass moving in a way that really draws attention to itself. It feels mechanical. It is a weird recoil impulse, not bad, just weird, and you'll feel it on anything longer than the 11.5".

All of these piston guns "bleed off gas". PWS does so above the barrel. LWRC does so right at the gas block. Caracal and LMT both vent back to the barrel, which makes the gun run cleaner than the PWS and LWRC, which are venting barrel gas under your rail and require a little extra cleaning every few trips out. Does this make those two recoil harder because they're not venting before the op rod and piston returns? ffs I don't know, it's 223 it barely recoils as is lol