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Posted: 1/2/2015 3:45:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Augee]
[#1]
Well that deteriorated fairly quickly...
FWIW - to me, "the" recce is just one of many mission/user specific modifications evolving throughout and around the late-1980s up until about 2005-ish with a lot of non-standard, COTS, and purpose-built modifications being adapted before things really "settled down" more or less. While there are always and always have been the occasional "oddball" user specific modifications to individual weapons - the modifications that were going on during this time were what you might call... "semi-institutional," that is to say, they weren't "program" modifications like SOPMOD or the CQBR or SPR programs, nor were they "official" in terms of organizationally dictated modifications, etc. - but they were, by virtue of unit purchases, SOP, and a healthy dose of experimentalism. Of course, I also think that I personally tend to have a much more narrow view of the term "recce" in more than one aspect, and think that it's too broadly applied in general, but that's neither here nor there. Meanwhile, I would like to get a different optic on there - and unfortunately, at the moment at least, my "Kyle Lamb-ish" build is currently in pieces - while I would love to have a whole collection full of early, non-SOPMOD, special unit/mission modified M16A2 Carbines and M4A1s, but I just don't have the cash to tie up in a half-dozen different oddball evolutions of essentially the same weapon system... maybe one day. For those that are interested, rather than continuing to discuss it in this thread - I've used that handguard for both an M4A1 build and an RO727 build - and as I've said, I'm not certain how/where it will ultimately end up - but here's some further reading for those that might be interested: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/621955_New_Build___Sorta_retro__but_not_Retro__Kyle_Lamb_ish_M4A1_Clone.html https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=642404 In the meantime, I'll try to get some better pictures of the MRE "recce" in the near future. ~Augee |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 4:05:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
Well that deteriorated fairly quickly... FWIW - to me, "the" recce is just one of many mission/user specific modifications evolving throughout and around the late-1980s up until about 2005-ish with a lot of non-standard, COTS, and purpose-built modifications being adapted before things really "settled down" more or less. While there are always and always have been the occasional "oddball" user specific modifications to individual weapons - the modifications that were going on during this time were what you might call... "semi-institutional," that is to say, they weren't "program" modifications like SOPMOD or the CQBR or SPR programs, nor were they "official" in terms of organizationally dictated modifications, etc. - but they were, by virtue of unit purchases, SOP, and a healthy dose of experimentalism. Of course, I also think that I personally tend to have a much more narrow view of the term "recce" in more than one aspect, and think that it's too broadly applied in general, but that's neither here nor there. Meanwhile, I would like to get a different optic on there - and unfortunately, at the moment at least, my "Kyle Lamb-ish" build is currently in pieces - while I would love to have a whole collection full of early, non-SOPMOD, special unit/mission modified M16A2 Carbines and M4A1s, but I just don't have the cash to tie up in a half-dozen different oddball evolutions of essentially the same weapon system... maybe one day. For those that are interested, rather than continuing to discuss it in this thread - I've used that handguard for both an M4A1 build and an RO727 build - and as I've said, I'm not certain how/where it will ultimately end up - but here's some further reading for those that might be interested: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/621955_New_Build___Sorta_retro__but_not_Retro__Kyle_Lamb_ish_M4A1_Clone.html https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=642404 In the meantime, I'll try to get some better pictures of the MRE "recce" in the near future. ~Augee Good way to put it as always. I couldn't have typed up anything that coherent or intelligent if my life depended on it lol. What he said! ^ |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 2:40:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Nice reply and link. Love that retro field expiediant gear :). As a 45B back then i woulda used whatever i had...and those FF tubes and some rail sections wpulda done the trick.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2015 5:11:33 PM EDT
[#4]
After a range trip last week with my newly finished Recce, I found out that the mil-spec type trigger I had in it was just not going to give me the accuracy that I needed for this rifle. After a little research, I went with a GEISSELE Super Semi-Automatic (SSA) trigger from Primary Arms for $185 shipped. I may have to put one of these in my older Recce too.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2015 5:49:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
For me it's hard to call it one way or the other. If magnification is the factor, if his rifle had a magnifier (if they were even around back then) behind the EOTech, can you call it a recce? I think the best way i could call that weapon is a recce with a recce incorrect optic. Yeah, what makes it a recce? The optic or the way the gun is set up? I think you could go either way. I was thinking the magnifier thing too. I think it's a recce with a CQB optic. Throw a magnified optic on there, or magnifier and it's a FULL recce again. I think you could argue it either way, but being all hardlined about it is kind of silly, since the whole concept is a little loose on the details. It's a fricking carbine that is accurized. If the FF does some of the accurizing and allows one to shoot a bit more accurately with an eotech, then so be it. On the other hand, a recce is probably best used with magnified optics. Now that I've added a third element to the argument, well milspec did too, than why don't we all argue about how each perspective is the right one? Although I have to admit, some of these comments were funny. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2015 6:18:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA:
Yeah, what makes it a recce? The optic or the way the gun is set up? I think you could go either way. I was thinking the magnifier thing too. I think it's a recce with a CQB optic. Throw a magnified optic on there, or magnifier and it's a FULL recce again. I think you could argue it either way, but being all hardlined about it is kind of silly, since the whole concept is a little loose on the details. It's a fricking carbine that is accurized. If the FF does some of the accurizing and allows one to shoot a bit more accurately with an eotech, then so be it. On the other hand, a recce is probably best used with magnified optics. Now that I've added a third element to the argument, well milspec did too, than why don't we all argue about how each perspective is the right one? Although I have to admit, some of these comments were funny. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
For me it's hard to call it one way or the other. If magnification is the factor, if his rifle had a magnifier (if they were even around back then) behind the EOTech, can you call it a recce? I think the best way i could call that weapon is a recce with a recce incorrect optic. Yeah, what makes it a recce? The optic or the way the gun is set up? I think you could go either way. I was thinking the magnifier thing too. I think it's a recce with a CQB optic. Throw a magnified optic on there, or magnifier and it's a FULL recce again. I think you could argue it either way, but being all hardlined about it is kind of silly, since the whole concept is a little loose on the details. It's a fricking carbine that is accurized. If the FF does some of the accurizing and allows one to shoot a bit more accurately with an eotech, then so be it. On the other hand, a recce is probably best used with magnified optics. Now that I've added a third element to the argument, well milspec did too, than why don't we all argue about how each perspective is the right one? Although I have to admit, some of these comments were funny. A real Seal Recon Rifle "Recce" with any optic is still a "Recce" A 16" carbine with a SS barrel (not built to the same specs as an mil recce) with a red dot I wouldn't consider a Recce. Same way I wouldn't consider a 18" barreled gamer gun with a 1-6 optic a mk12/ SPR. The Recce was designed for "sniping", so in the essence of a "clone type" thread, a "recce style" rifle should be built to meet that requirement and have the appropriate optic with similar capabilities as to what was used in the mil. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 9:09:30 PM EDT
[#7]
I sighted in my 1-6 today. Now I just need to paint my scope.
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Posted: 1/2/2015 9:16:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HaveBlue83]
[#8]
"The SEAL Recon Rifle was initially built in-house with the only specifications being the ability to shoot any 5.56 x 45 mm cartridge in inventory (at the time this included the first iterations of the 77-grain (5 g) Mk 262 Mod 0 cartridge), and that the rifle have a barrel 16 inches (406 mm) in length.[1]
The barrel blanks have a 1:8 in (203 mm) twist and are stainless steel.[citation needed]They have a unique heavy barrel profile, starting with 0.980 in (25 mm) in diameter for the first 2.60 in (66 mm) of length, then narrowing down to 0.850 (22 mm) in diameter, 0.750 in (19 mm) in diameter underneath the front sight block, and 0.725 in (18 mm) in diameter to the muzzle. The barrels have the Ops Inc 12th model suppressors with the specified muzzle brake to mount the suppressor. A carbine-length gas system is used. These barrels were mated to flat top upper receivers, and back up iron sights (BUIS) from KAC (Knight Armament Corporation)." This seems to be the heart of the system. And a ff rail....KAC / DD styles, and 4x style scopes. So i guess if you dont have that, "go home". Mines a 1/8medcon ss batrel...but its a middy and not heavy profile. I dont have a 1-4 i run a 3-9. So thats a DQ. Now.....enter post 2000 era....... i built my rifle as I would have built a rifle for a current sniper/recon team that wanted a LW, portable but accurate for out to 500m shots kind of specs. Long FF rail, decent optic for longer shots, and a middy because its smoother. My idea of the rifle FITS the RECCE mantra imho. And isnt that what its about? Fitting the style of the RECCE Role? My gripe on my rifle? I need and want a 1-4 lol. So......fair game? (Just thinking out loud here) |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 12:31:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Augee]
[#9]
Notwithstanding the now popular "recce concept," which I won't comment on - in terms of "clones" and "military recces" and the unicorn-ish "NSW Recce" - I would consider it to be a very narrow classification that refers to a small number of unit and mission specific accurized carbines/rifles - IMHO - they are not general purpose, do-it-all, jack-of-all-trades rifles, but very specialized rifles built towards a particular end and application, which, while bearing a superficial resemblance to other rifles used by other people and other units at other times - are not the same.
If that all sounds vague... well, it's intentional - but I prefer not to be more specific about it - but in terms of "specs" - to me, a "true NSW Recce" almost always has a Lilja 16" M4 contour (Lilja's M4 - not USGI M4) barrel, a KAC FF RAS - Long, Short, Medium, or MRE, and either a B. E. Meyer's flash suppressor, KAC M4QD Comp, or AAC 18-Tooth "Blackout" suppressor mount. In my mind: An early configuration that would "lead" to the "Recce" (1990s): 
(1993): 
Recce: 
The Lilja M4 contour barrel (bottom barrel): 
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ar.htm What has largely taken the Recce's place - the "new" Recce, as it were: 
NOT a "Recce" (in, and only in my very personal, individual opinion - not for this entire thread): 
Both are Army modified M4A1s Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder whether it might be better off to let the "recce style" thread continue, and be devoted to "recce style" and "recce concept" rifles and carbines, as they're known in the general sense - and open a separate thread for non-SOPMOD, special mission/special unit specific modification rifles, to include, but not limited to the Recce, MRE M4A1s, Armalite FF tubes, etc. Personally, I think they're among the most fascinating rifles to look at - starting with the 1970 Son Tay Raiders and Singlepoint RDS, moving up through to various modified M16A2 Carbines and into early M4A1 adaptations and to the HK416. ::shrug:: Anyways, that's what I've got for now - back to your regularly scheduled programing. ~Augee |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2015 5:42:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dog_dad]
[#10]
First: Ok so I've asked Shrek aka Sheriff of Baghdad and it seems the Unit has also used 16" stainless steel rifles as well and perhaps even predates the SEAL recon rifle. I'll try and remember the year he mentioned.
Second: Can someone embed this video? http://youtu.be/0bwsVlqVtHc Third: I scraped together some cash and picked up a Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x. Holy shit it's awesome. I produced a 1 inch ragged hole with 10 rounds at 100 yards so I'm fairly happy this glass can meet my needs out to 600. I've also heard that the Vortex HD II 1-6x have seen some use with an Army SMU per a military rep from another company. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:46:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Jack]
[#11]
A friend reports that an Army SMU friend of his has used 16" Noveske barrels on a recce concept rifle since the early 2000s.
Asked how many barrels he had been through the estimate was low double digits. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 9:28:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patriot_man: First: Ok so I've asked Shrek aka Sheriff of Baghdad and it seems the Unit has also used 16" stainless steel rifles as well and perhaps even predates the SEAL recon rifle. I'll try and remember the year he mentioned. Second: Can someone embed this video? http://youtu.be/0bwsVlqVtHc Third: I scraped together some cash and picked up a Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x. Holy shit it's awesome. I produced a 1 inch ragged hole with 10 rounds at 100 yards so I'm fairly happy this glass can meet my needs out to 600. I've also heard that the Vortex HD II 1-6x have seen some use with an Army SMU per a military rep from another company.  |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 9:50:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Augee, i hear where you are coming from.....and the way you explained that made me think of something else.....RECCE might just be the newest style of "retro". With the block II M4A1's and MK12's and M110's and etc etc, RECCE is basically gone. So then this thread should be a history and replica build thread. Most of the rifles in here would fall under "1-4x/other low powered optic 16" SPR style rifles" category.
This thread should be retro section if anything. A fiberglass FF tube or 10" rail on a 16" SS barrel with a capped leupold low power scope is old scool. and so are the pics and gear posted above. Just my thoughts. I dont belong in here with my rifle, thats for sure.
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Posted: 1/3/2015 9:56:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: secretwheelman]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83: Augee, i hear where you are coming from.....and the way you explained that made me think of something else.....RECCE might just be the newest style of "retro". With the block II M4A1's and MK12's and M110's and etc etc, RECCE is basically gone. So then this thread should be a history and replica build thread. Most of the rifles in here would fall under "1-4x/other low powered optic 16" SPR style rifles" category. This thread should be retro section if anything. A fiberglass FF tube or 10" rail on a 16" SS barrel with a capped leupold low power scope is old scool. and so are the pics and gear posted above. Just my thoughts. I dont belong in here with my rifle, thats for sure. Y'all need to lighten the fuck up. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 11:03:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Jack: A friend reports that an Army SMU friend of his has used 16" Noveske barrels on a recce concept rifle since the early 2000s. Asked how many barrels he had been through the estimate was low double digits. Sounds suspiciously like a Holland. Those rifles used 16" mid-length Noveske barrels, but this was not any SMU outfit - it was within 5th Group. But who knows, the concept could've been carried along. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/3/2015 11:23:49 AM EDT
[#16]
I thinking having a separate thread for military/military-style Recces would be great, I think the history behind them is really interesting.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
Notwithstanding the now popular "recce concept," which I won't comment on - in terms of "clones" and "military recces" and the unicorn-ish "NSW Recce" - I would consider it to be a very narrow classification that refers to a small number of unit and mission specific accurized carbines/rifles - IMHO - they are not general purpose, do-it-all, jack-of-all-trades rifles, but very specialized rifles built towards a particular end and application, which, while bearing a superficial resemblance to other rifles used by other people and other units at other times - are not the same. If that all sounds vague... well, it's intentional - but I prefer not to be more specific about it - but in terms of "specs" - to me, a "true NSW Recce" almost always has a Lilja 16" M4 contour (Lilja's M4 - not USGI M4) barrel, a KAC FF RAS - Long, Short, Medium, or MRE, and either a B. E. Meyer's flash suppressor, KAC M4QD Comp, or AAC 18-Tooth "Blackout" suppressor mount. In my mind: An early configuration that would "lead" to the "Recce" (1990s): http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/akim85/navysoc2381V.jpg (1993): http://oi58.tinypic.com/28u7p5d.jpg Recce: http://images1.snapfish.com/347345299%7Ffp33%3A%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E4%3C2%3E696%3EWSNRCG%3D323383883%3B%3B36nu0mrj http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/ragincajun1919/RECCEFORREAL_zps6cefc6aa.jpg The Lilja M4 contour barrel (bottom barrel): http://www.riflebarrels.com/images/ar_images/ar_new_product_full.jpg http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ar.htm What has largely taken the Recce's place - the "new" Recce, as it were: http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9752/aa69.png NOT a "Recce" (in, and only in my very personal, individual opinion - not for this entire thread): http://www.laruetactical.com/sites/default/files/bob/12.jpg http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1679/13820.jpg Both are Army modified M4A1s Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder whether it might be better off to let the "recce style" thread continue, and be devoted to "recce style" and "recce concept" rifles and carbines, as they're known in the general sense - and open a separate thread for non-SOPMOD, special mission/special unit specific modification rifles, to include, but not limited to the Recce, MRE M4A1s, Armalite FF tubes, etc. Personally, I think they're among the most fascinating rifles to look at - starting with the 1970 Son Tay Raiders and Singlepoint RDS, moving up through to various modified M16A2 Carbines and into early M4A1 adaptations and to the HK416. ::shrug:: Anyways, that's what I've got for now - back to your regularly scheduled programing. ~Augee |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 12:55:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jax_Guns: I thinking having a separate thread for military/military-style Recces would be great, I think the history behind them is really interesting. ^^^^^^I agree. I mean we were keeping it "recce style", but it seems to have gotten kinda "clones only" vibe in the thread lately. i dunno. ARFCOM can get cray cray sometimes lol. I like the old skool ones. I just posted in here because I felt mine was a Recon style setup and if I was in Iraqistan doing recon walks I'd set my M4 like I did with mine .
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Posted: 1/3/2015 1:54:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: StevieJ309]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
You guys are delving too deep into this. If this were a clone thread, I would agree. However, it's the recce "STYLE" thread. Y'all need to lighten the fuck up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Augee, i hear where you are coming from.....and the way you explained that made me think of something else.....RECCE might just be the newest style of "retro". With the block II M4A1's and MK12's and M110's and etc etc, RECCE is basically gone. So then this thread should be a history and replica build thread. Most of the rifles in here would fall under "1-4x/other low powered optic 16" SPR style rifles" category. This thread should be retro section if anything. A fiberglass FF tube or 10" rail on a 16" SS barrel with a capped leupold low power scope is old scool. and so are the pics and gear posted above. Just my thoughts. I dont belong in here with my rifle, thats for sure. You guys are delving too deep into this. If this were a clone thread, I would agree. However, it's the recce "STYLE" thread. Y'all need to lighten the fuck up. For serious. This thread has been going along fine for the past 170 pages. No need to go changing it up now. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 2:40:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevieJ309:
For serious. This thread has been going along fine for the past 170 pages. No need to go changing it up now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Augee, i hear where you are coming from.....and the way you explained that made me think of something else.....RECCE might just be the newest style of "retro". With the block II M4A1's and MK12's and M110's and etc etc, RECCE is basically gone. So then this thread should be a history and replica build thread. Most of the rifles in here would fall under "1-4x/other low powered optic 16" SPR style rifles" category. This thread should be retro section if anything. A fiberglass FF tube or 10" rail on a 16" SS barrel with a capped leupold low power scope is old scool. and so are the pics and gear posted above. Just my thoughts. I dont belong in here with my rifle, thats for sure. You guys are delving too deep into this. If this were a clone thread, I would agree. However, it's the recce "STYLE" thread. Y'all need to lighten the fuck up. For serious. This thread has been going along fine for the past 170 pages. No need to go changing it up now. Just to be clear, here, I can't speak for anyone else - but it was never my suggestion to "change" the definition of a "recce" or "recce concept" or "recce style" or to turn this into a "clone thread" for military rifles. For whatever reason, two of my builds, without any comment on my part besides a fanciful "story" about my "recce" reignited the debate about what constitutes a "recce" and a discussion about various special mission/unit carbine modifications, so I felt it germane to chime in about what I personally believe constitutes an "NSW Recce," which the "recce style" is ostensibly inspired by, and was pretty explicit about the fact that I a) was not talking about "recce style" or "recce concept" rifles, but military rifles, and b) that it was my personal opinion, and should not be construed as any kind of intention to dictate the direction of the thread. I do not, and have never wanted to be the "forum police" or "junior mod" about what can or cannot be posted in what threads, nor am I the OP of this thread - I post about/respond to the things that interest me, and ignore the things that don't. What I will say, however - is that the Somalia carbine thread in the Retro forum is already kind of pushing it - this topic would not go over well in Retro-land. 
~Augee |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 2:53:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
Just to be clear, here, I can't speak for anyone else - but it was never my suggestion to "change" the definition of a "recce" or "recce concept" or "recce style" or to turn this into a "clone thread" for military rifles. For whatever reason, two of my builds, without any comment on my part besides a fanciful "story" about my "recce" reignited the debate about what constitutes a "recce" and a discussion about various special mission/unit carbine modifications, so I felt it germane to chime in about what I personally believe constitutes an "NSW Recce," which the "recce style" is ostensibly inspired by, and was pretty explicit about the fact that I a) was not talking about "recce style" or "recce concept" rifles, but military rifles, and b) that it was my personal opinion, and should not be construed as any kind of intention to dictate the direction of the thread. I do not, and have never wanted to be the "forum police" or "junior mod" about what can or cannot be posted in what threads, nor am I the OP of this thread - I post about/respond to the things that interest me, and ignore the things that don't. What I will say, however - is that the Somalia carbine thread in the Retro forum is already kind of pushing it - this topic would not go over well in Retro-land.
~Augee Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Augee, i hear where you are coming from.....and the way you explained that made me think of something else.....RECCE might just be the newest style of "retro". With the block II M4A1's and MK12's and M110's and etc etc, RECCE is basically gone. So then this thread should be a history and replica build thread. Most of the rifles in here would fall under "1-4x/other low powered optic 16" SPR style rifles" category. This thread should be retro section if anything. A fiberglass FF tube or 10" rail on a 16" SS barrel with a capped leupold low power scope is old scool. and so are the pics and gear posted above. Just my thoughts. I dont belong in here with my rifle, thats for sure. You guys are delving too deep into this. If this were a clone thread, I would agree. However, it's the recce "STYLE" thread. Y'all need to lighten the fuck up. For serious. This thread has been going along fine for the past 170 pages. No need to go changing it up now. Just to be clear, here, I can't speak for anyone else - but it was never my suggestion to "change" the definition of a "recce" or "recce concept" or "recce style" or to turn this into a "clone thread" for military rifles. For whatever reason, two of my builds, without any comment on my part besides a fanciful "story" about my "recce" reignited the debate about what constitutes a "recce" and a discussion about various special mission/unit carbine modifications, so I felt it germane to chime in about what I personally believe constitutes an "NSW Recce," which the "recce style" is ostensibly inspired by, and was pretty explicit about the fact that I a) was not talking about "recce style" or "recce concept" rifles, but military rifles, and b) that it was my personal opinion, and should not be construed as any kind of intention to dictate the direction of the thread. I do not, and have never wanted to be the "forum police" or "junior mod" about what can or cannot be posted in what threads, nor am I the OP of this thread - I post about/respond to the things that interest me, and ignore the things that don't. What I will say, however - is that the Somalia carbine thread in the Retro forum is already kind of pushing it - this topic would not go over well in Retro-land.
~Augee I don't think anybody thought you were trying to be the recce police, He was probably saying it towards TG. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2015 5:12:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Augee, it wasn't specifically your build that was pointed out as "not a recce". It was a real pic of the carbine you built yours after. So.....
I think it would be silly to start another thread. The whole thing has never been as clearly defined as some of the other builds in existence in the military. Now, there maybe be some that have had experience with what a recce should actually be, but it just seems there has been a variance of builds of a very similar type of carbine in the hands of shooters in the military. And since it has been somewhat hard to clearly define, it seems to make sense to keep it looser in here too. That's just how I see it. I've been following this thread since it's inception, and posts on the forum before this thread got started, and IMHO, there were different builders of a very similar type of carbine. MSTN is one of them I speak of. Now maybe they were just borrowing the name from Crane or whatever. Or the people they built them for were borrowing the name. I don't know. But whatever. As I see it there was always a bit of mystery to it. And I don't really feel like anybody has shown one way or the other what a recce exactly is. Now the Mk12's and 18's and and block II or whatever, are just more clearly defined. I still think some people go overboard when something isn't EXACTLY like they think it should be. But that will probably always happen. Anyways.... sometimes when we start breaking up things to please or appease the overly anal, I think one area suffers. I believe this is the case with the A2 and retro forum. Certain people just couldn't stand the thought of allowing A2's to be with them in the retro forum, and there isn't a LOT of interest in JUST A2's. Yet there is a thread that continues about Somalia builds in the Retro forum that clearly has a lot of A2 carbines represented. Feels a little ironic to me. So... I like to rant too. The intent is to not anger anyone but I've hung around here for a while and just talking about what I see. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 5:52:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Handling an A2 def feels "Retro" to meee
I was just saying it directed towards the group, nor lasering augie (his stuff is cool, so what we derailed the thread for some cool retro stuff!), but TG did ruffle feathers in a "actually that's wrong" soapbox kind of way. Yeah we have been pretty lax in here and I Guess we somehow took a "clone" view over the last page or so.....kinda got weird, and you get what we had here on the last page....lol. this and the MK12 page are my two most visited pages on ARFCOM. half of it is because of the fun in here. lol. I feel mine is closer to RECCE style and this is how I would have done a RECCE, so I guess all I can do is make this thread suck a lil less with some pics, since this is a pic thread.....Here is the "Non-Optic correct, civilian-railed RECCE style rifle of mine:  Teaching this miss to pew. she likes the AR and has hit the steel many times  |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2015 5:56:59 PM EDT
[#23]
 " />
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Posted: 1/3/2015 7:03:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SaltySourdough:
http://<a href=http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/midwestmarksman/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/50B0F5B5-906A-425D-AFFD-528FCA4504DB_zps7ixgsqw4.jpg</a>" /> Clean 
Needs moar A2 stockage tho! |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2015 7:19:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Clean
Needs moar A2 stockage tho! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By SaltySourdough:
http://<a href=http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/midwestmarksman/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/50B0F5B5-906A-425D-AFFD-528FCA4504DB_zps7ixgsqw4.jpg</a>" /> Clean
Needs moar A2 stockage tho! Here it is on an NDS A1 lower  [/
 " />
[imago]http://  " />
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KS, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2015 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Lol, sold the barrel to another member for a Mod H build so thats about all I got for pics. Gonna re-barrel to an 18" Douglas for a Mod 1 or a 16" Lilja for a "proper" recce clone. It's goin on the NDS A1 lower either way, so I'm leaning towards the Mod 1.
Here's the Block II clone in its current recce form  " />
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:33:30 PM EDT
[#28]
All this bs because one guy asked about a rifle, didn't like the answer he got, and wouldn't drop it.
If I've learned anything since then, no one has a definite answer as to what a recce is, just their personal expression of one. Making a whole new clone thread based on one-off military rifles seems utterly stupid, but this arfcom, so whatever. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:50:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurbineGuy: All this bs because one guy asked about a rifle, didn't like the answer he got, and wouldn't drop it. If I've learned anything since then, no one has a definite answer as to what a recce is, just their personal expression of one. Making a whole new clone thread based on one-off military rifles seems utterly stupid, but this arfcom, so whatever. I think we've all moved on and can now return to the regular scheduled programing.  |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:54:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
Funny how that works. I think we've all moved on and can now return to the regular scheduled programing. <a href="http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/secretwheelman/media/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/secretwheelman/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg</a> Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
All this bs because one guy asked about a rifle, didn't like the answer he got, and wouldn't drop it. If I've learned anything since then, no one has a definite answer as to what a recce is, just their personal expression of one. Making a whole new clone thread based on one-off military rifles seems utterly stupid, but this arfcom, so whatever. I think we've all moved on and can now return to the regular scheduled programing. <a href="http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/secretwheelman/media/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/secretwheelman/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg</a> We must have different definitions of "moving on" since over a page was dedicated to the bs, but whatever. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:55:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Everyone knows that RECCEs aren't cool anymore anyway. It's all about mini RECCEs now. Move along. Nothing to see here.
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:57:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurbineGuy: We must have different definitions of "moving on" since over a page was dedicated to the bs, but whatever. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TurbineGuy: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By TurbineGuy: All this bs because one guy asked about a rifle, didn't like the answer he got, and wouldn't drop it. If I've learned anything since then, no one has a definite answer as to what a recce is, just their personal expression of one. Making a whole new clone thread based on one-off military rifles seems utterly stupid, but this arfcom, so whatever. I think we've all moved on and can now return to the regular scheduled programing. <a href="http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/secretwheelman/media/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/secretwheelman/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg</a> We must have different definitions of "moving on" since over a page was dedicated to the bs, but whatever.  |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 8:58:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
Obviously... <a href="http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/secretwheelman/media/100_0940_zps67f5e3b9.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/secretwheelman/100_0940_zps67f5e3b9.jpg</a> Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
All this bs because one guy asked about a rifle, didn't like the answer he got, and wouldn't drop it. If I've learned anything since then, no one has a definite answer as to what a recce is, just their personal expression of one. Making a whole new clone thread based on one-off military rifles seems utterly stupid, but this arfcom, so whatever. I think we've all moved on and can now return to the regular scheduled programing. <a href="http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/secretwheelman/media/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/secretwheelman/100_0932_zpsf84732d6.jpg</a> We must have different definitions of "moving on" since over a page was dedicated to the bs, but whatever. <a href="http://s1008.photobucket.com/user/secretwheelman/media/100_0940_zps67f5e3b9.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af204/secretwheelman/100_0940_zps67f5e3b9.jpg</a> Good God bro, how many AR's do you have? I know i've seen at least like 15 of your clones.... |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 10:59:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556: Good God bro, how many AR's do you have? I know i've seen at least like 15 of your clones.... |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 12:49:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman: Currently 6. Although I definitely want to add a SAM-R to the safe at some point. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman: Originally Posted By MILSPEC556: Good God bro, how many AR's do you have? I know i've seen at least like 15 of your clones.... Compass lake can do mk12/recon/sam-r profiles. I already asked nice A1 lower! I want to get an 80% one and do either a GAU-5 restamp or A1 rollmarks. Love me some A1 goodness. My first was an NDS half fence A1
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2015 1:53:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Yeah, give us the SAM-R. Or SDM-R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are seriously lacking these. I tried to dig up an old thread about them and it's like archived or something. Poooof. I got some pics of them, but this probably isn't the place. Anyways.... Recce's are cool. Mini recces are just midget wanna be's. DOH. Just kidding. Actually it's a pretty darn good concept too. But I'm not sure if they're worthy of the super special "recce" name. 
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Posted: 1/4/2015 1:56:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA:
Anyways.... Recce's are cool. Mini recces are just midget wanna be's. Don't hate. 
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:14:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alaska511:
Don't hate. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Anyways.... Recce's are cool. Mini recces are just midget wanna be's. Don't hate. Yeah. Nothing your 16" 5.56 will do that our 14.5" and shorter rigs won't. 
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:48:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA: Yeah, give us the SAM-R. Or SDM-R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are seriously lacking these. I tried to dig up an old thread about them and it's like archived or something. Poooof. I got some pics of them, but this probably isn't the place. Anyways.... Recce's are cool. Mini recces are just midget wanna be's. DOH. Just kidding. Actually it's a pretty darn good concept too. But I'm not sure if they're worthy of the super special "recce" name. I dug up the sam-r thread too last mont when i wanted to learn more about em....shit just DIED. weird. Mini recce....dont hate....it's not the size that matters.....it's how u use it!
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2015 9:43:35 PM EDT
[#40]
I picked up a Bushnell 1-4x, so obviously it needs to go on a RECCE build, right?
I'll build it from either an Anderson or a Spikes Punisher lower that I have. So, VFG, Bipod, or Grip pod? |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2015 9:51:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mblades]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83:
I dug up the sam-r thread too last mont when i wanted to learn more about em....shit just DIED. weird. Mini recce....dont hate....it's not the size that matters.....it's how u use it!
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Yeah, give us the SAM-R. Or SDM-R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are seriously lacking these. I tried to dig up an old thread about them and it's like archived or something. Poooof. I got some pics of them, but this probably isn't the place. Anyways.... Recce's are cool. Mini recces are just midget wanna be's. DOH. Just kidding. Actually it's a pretty darn good concept too. But I'm not sure if they're worthy of the super special "recce" name. I dug up the sam-r thread too last mont when i wanted to learn more about em....shit just DIED. weird. Mini recce....dont hate....it's not the size that matters.....it's how u use it!
SAM-R would be sweet, I think the KAC FS/GB basically killed it for the cloners, prohibitively expensive, hard to find, and hard to install; I wish I would have picked one up when I had the chance. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2015 10:21:36 PM EDT
[#42]
My Recce-ish build. I'm happy with it, so to hell with non-clone haters.
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Posted: 1/5/2015 10:48:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MILSPEC556]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlueCollar_SD:
My Recce-ish build. I'm happy with it, so to hell with non-clone haters.
<a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg</a> I fucking love it. That foliage? If so, i think its the first foliage SOPMOD ive seen. And ive seen a metric fuck load of SOPMOD's |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2015 10:55:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
I fucking love it. That foliage? If so, i think its the first foliage SOPMOD ive seen. And ive seen a metric fuck load of SOPMOD's Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By BlueCollar_SD:
My Recce-ish build. I'm happy with it, so to hell with non-clone haters.
<a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg</a> I fucking love it. That foliage? If so, i think its the first foliage SOPMOD ive seen. And ive seen a metric fuck load of SOPMOD's Yes sir, that is an FG B5 SOPMOD. |
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Posted: 1/6/2015 12:51:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83: Sick. Live the rail and optic and the look. Nice pics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7568/15826929539_1dd19f1c80_k.jpg https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7531/15404739343_827c6cce04_k.jpg I'm shit at taking reticle pics, but the FC-2 is really startin' to grow on me. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7485/15838618917_4742003a96_k.jpg Sick. Live the rail and optic and the look. Nice pics. I wanna paint em......but i kike em black too. Utah, i have a dilemma!!! Your build has sold me on the SLR. |
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Posted: 1/6/2015 1:15:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: twitch1706]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556: I fucking love it. That foliage? If so, i think its the first foliage SOPMOD ive seen. And ive seen a metric fuck load of SOPMOD's Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556: Originally Posted By BlueCollar_SD: My Recce-ish build. I'm happy with it, so to hell with non-clone haters. <a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg</a> I fucking love it. That foliage? If so, i think its the first foliage SOPMOD ive seen. And ive seen a metric fuck load of SOPMOD's B5 has been making them in Foliage for two years now, albeit in teeny tiny batches. I got the one below back when they were still trying to get the formula figured out; in person you can see a slight marbling effect from blending the polymer beads in the mold... Come to think of it, this one may be one of the first ones released. Neat.  |
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Posted: 1/6/2015 1:26:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bantis: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bantis: Originally Posted By HaveBlue83: Originally Posted By secretwheelman: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7568/15826929539_1dd19f1c80_k.jpg https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7531/15404739343_827c6cce04_k.jpg I'm shit at taking reticle pics, but the FC-2 is really startin' to grow on me. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7485/15838618917_4742003a96_k.jpg Sick. Live the rail and optic and the look. Nice pics. I wanna paint em......but i kike em black too. Utah, i have a dilemma!!! Your build has sold me on the SLR. I really like it. I had to run an older Gen 2 SLR adj gas block for clearance (gen 3 hit on mine), but it fits regular Lo-Pro GB fine. Its super duper light and I like the Urx-esque look to it :). Thx. |
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Posted: 1/6/2015 1:29:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By twitch1706:
B5 has been making them in Foliage for two years now, albeit in teeny tiny batches. I got the one below back when they were still trying to get the formula figured out; in person you can see a slight marbling effect from blending the polymer beads in the mold... Come to think of it, this one may be one of the first ones released. Neat. http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt298/twitch1706/boomstick.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By twitch1706:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By BlueCollar_SD:
My Recce-ish build. I'm happy with it, so to hell with non-clone haters.
<a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074721-1_zpsb171d5a8.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/BlueCollar_SD/media/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah46/BlueCollar_SD/20150103_074808_zps8fd55acc.jpg</a> I fucking love it. That foliage? If so, i think its the first foliage SOPMOD ive seen. And ive seen a metric fuck load of SOPMOD's B5 has been making them in Foliage for two years now, albeit in teeny tiny batches. I got the one below back when they were still trying to get the formula figured out; in person you can see a slight marbling effect from blending the polymer beads in the mold... Come to think of it, this one may be one of the first ones released. Neat. http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt298/twitch1706/boomstick.jpg Damn! Yours and his are WAY different shades. But yea I mainly just see black and tan I went with black. but whenever I get around to a block II build i wanna find a taupe LMT. The gen 1 taupes arent easy to find but hopefully they still make that color on the current generation. Or maybe even another b5. Mine has been a good stock so far. |
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Posted: 1/6/2015 1:40:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Light sources will really change the way they look. My coyote B5 SOPMOD looks totally different indoors vs. out.
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Posted: 1/6/2015 1:42:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Much of the difference in apparent color is due to lighting. Look at how the stock compares to the pistol grip in both pics- not too dissimilar, really. That's the crux of outdoor diffused light versus indoor shitty light
Snap your photos outdoors under a lightly overcast sky and they'll look much better
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