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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2022 5:02:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Initial impression is that it is awesome! Significantly brighter reticle than I expected and great glass for the price point. Eyebox isn't bad at all if you have consistent head position. Weight savings compared to my Steiner in ADM mount is worth it, even if I end up adding an offset rds.
  A few shots comparing a few optics. As always, it is a pain to get a picture looking through. Primary Arms  Steiner @ 3X  Burris RT-6 @ 3X 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2022 10:15:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zaitsev9130]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spyderboy03: Initial impression is that it is awesome! Significantly brighter reticle than I expected and great glass for the price point. Eyebox isn't bad at all if you have consistent head position. Weight savings compared to my Steiner in ADM mount is worth it, even if I end up adding an offset rds. https://i.imgur.com/LJtx3kD.jpg?1 https://i.imgur.com/2kdlNme.jpg?1 A few shots comparing a few optics. As always, it is a pain to get a picture looking through. Primary Arms https://i.imgur.com/FZCpOoD.jpg?1 Steiner @ 3X https://i.imgur.com/nxvkLzi.jpg?1 Burris RT-6 @ 3X https://i.imgur.com/xoVo8k0.jpg?1 nice! did you happen to compare it or ever consider a burris rt-3? that was a close competitor for me. I like the burris reticle but it felt alitle small in their 3x prism. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:05:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: nice! did you happen to compare it or ever consider a burris rt-3? that was a close competitor for me. I like the burris reticle but it felt alitle small in their 3x prism. I did not. It looks nice too though. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 7:45:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capt_Destro]
[#4]
Honestly this sounds weird, I like my micro 3x. But I kind of hope they do an upgrsded full size with extended battery life.
The option of a better eye box and I relief would be great |
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USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 8:29:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capt_Destro: Honestly this sounds weird, I like my micro 3x. But I kind of hope they do an upgrsded full size with extended battery life. The option of a better eye box and I relief would be great I really think they should have a 3 and 5X micro prism, then a 2 and 4X GLX. I’d be all over all of them. Battery life is really good on them already. Surpasses any other non red dot illuminated optic I know of. But if they threw a 123 in a 4X GLX I sure wouldn’t complain. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 9:09:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olds442tyguy: I really think they should have a 3 and 5X micro prism, then a 2 and 4X GLX. I’d be all over all of them. Battery life is really good on them already. Surpasses any other non red dot illuminated optic I know of. But if they threw a 123 in a 4X GLX I sure wouldn’t complain. I got the SLx3 micro with the order a month ago or so, I liked it, but my eyes for whatever reason didn't like the magnification up close. And ironically, I went back to the Stiener P4. On my M4 I do have the GLX2 prism and love it. I would like to try the micro in a 2x if they ever make one. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 9:10:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olds442tyguy: I really think they should have a 3 and 5X micro prism, then a 2 and 4X GLX. I’d be all over all of them. Battery life is really good on them already. Surpasses any other non red dot illuminated optic I know of. But if they threw a 123 in a 4X GLX I sure wouldn’t complain. Yes that’s what I’m hoping for in the future. At least a 4x GLX micro prism and I’m done with ACOGs I’m putting a lot of rounds through my x39 and 9mm sbr with the Gemini Micro 1x up top.. nice to not have astigmatism affect POI … It’s a very durable clear optic Looking forward to acquiring the x39/300bo micro 3x |
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USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 9:31:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dotcombust: Yes that’s what I’m hoping for in the future. At least a 4x GLX micro prism and I’m done with ACOGs I’m putting a lot of rounds through my x39 and 9mm sbr with the Gemini Micro 1x up top.. nice to not have astigmatism affect POI … It’s a very durable clear optic Looking forward to acquiring the x39/300bo micro 3x Watch the AK Operators Union store. They seem to get the 39 versions off and on with no pre order. It’s a cool evolution to watch. The ACOG will always be the ACOG and I feel the first PA prisms were trying to emulate them and it showed. Despite Trijicon having their own micro prism, the PA is an entirely different evolution path, and dare I say it, a better one than what Trijicon chose. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 1:28:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olds442tyguy: I really think they should have a 3 and 5X micro prism, then a 2 and 4X GLX. I'd be all over all of them. Battery life is really good on them already. Surpasses any other non red dot illuminated optic I know of. But if they threw a 123 in a 4X GLX I sure wouldn't complain. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olds442tyguy: Originally Posted By Capt_Destro: Honestly this sounds weird, I like my micro 3x. But I kind of hope they do an upgrsded full size with extended battery life. The option of a better eye box and I relief would be great I really think they should have a 3 and 5X micro prism, then a 2 and 4X GLX. I'd be all over all of them. Battery life is really good on them already. Surpasses any other non red dot illuminated optic I know of. But if they threw a 123 in a 4X GLX I sure wouldn't complain. My only complaints so far are the mushy illumination control, and country of manufacture, but the design is fantastic and more than worth the price otherwise. In my opinion, the design evolution of PA's prisms is better than Trijicon's, and they are putting out some winners. Like Holosun with their dots, they are punching above their price point. Now if they could do a fiberoptic/battery illumination combo with an FO adjustment like an accupoint, mounting wings like an acog for a top mount dot, made anywhere but china...they could easily stomp out the acog as competition for the "end of the world" optic. But that's just dreaming 
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USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 2:30:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: If they even made the 3x, or a 4x micro, in the states or Japan, I would be all over that even at Trijicon prices. My only complaints so far are the mushy illumination control, and country of manufacture, but the design is fantastic and more than worth the price otherwise. In my opinion, the design evolution of PA's prisms is better than Trijicon's, and they are putting out some winners. Like Holosun with their dots, they are punching above their price point. Now if they could do a fiberoptic/battery illumination combo with an FO adjustment like an accupoint, mounting wings like an acog for a top mount dot, made anywhere but china...they could easily stomp out the acog as competition for the "end of the world" optic. But that's just dreaming I think the Philippines would be most likely. For some reason Japan doesn’t want to touch prisms. Start up costs are probably too high for casting/forging the bodies. I actually prefer electronic illumination to fiber optic. They do however need to figure out offset red dots. Their current resolution for it is kinda ghetto. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 3:09:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olds442tyguy: I think the Philippines would be most likely. For some reason Japan doesn't want to touch prisms. Start up costs are probably too high for casting/forging the bodies. I actually prefer electronic illumination to fiber optic. They do however need to figure out offset red dots. Their current resolution for it is kinda ghetto. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By olds442tyguy: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: If they even made the 3x, or a 4x micro, in the states or Japan, I would be all over that even at Trijicon prices. My only complaints so far are the mushy illumination control, and country of manufacture, but the design is fantastic and more than worth the price otherwise. In my opinion, the design evolution of PA's prisms is better than Trijicon's, and they are putting out some winners. Like Holosun with their dots, they are punching above their price point. Now if they could do a fiberoptic/battery illumination combo with an FO adjustment like an accupoint, mounting wings like an acog for a top mount dot, made anywhere but china...they could easily stomp out the acog as competition for the "end of the world" optic. But that's just dreaming I think the Philippines would be most likely. For some reason Japan doesn't want to touch prisms. Start up costs are probably too high for casting/forging the bodies. I actually prefer electronic illumination to fiber optic. They do however need to figure out offset red dots. Their current resolution for it is kinda ghetto. The 3x is easy for me to aim both eyes open, but I need to get to the range this weekend to really test it. Playing operator in the yard isn't a fool proof test  A top mount dot would really round it out for most people that can't use BAC or shift their eye dominance. I have found that moving your head just enough to get scope shadow makes it easier to swap dominance, and the tighter eyebox helps there. And no eyeball weld! The big boys no longer innovate. Maybe in another decade or two Trijicon will add a diopter to a 3 or 4x model. But even then, PA and the like will stay far ahead on the feature sets. I love that they actually innovate and put out optics that take advantage of modern tech and manufacturing. I kind of want another 3x for my 11.5... |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 5:14:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: I was just thinking of how they could surpass Trijicon in most aspects for the hardcore acog fans. Battery is definitely easier to deal with, and tritium is obsolete for low light illumination in my opinion. The 3x is easy for me to aim both eyes open, but I need to get to the range this weekend to really test it. Playing operator in the yard isn't a fool proof test A top mount dot would really round it out for most people that can't use BAC or shift their eye dominance. I have found that moving your head just enough to get scope shadow makes it easier to swap dominance, and the tighter eyebox helps there. And no eyeball weld! The big boys no longer innovate. Maybe in another decade or two Trijicon will add a diopter to a 3 or 4x model. But even then, PA and the like will stay far ahead on the feature sets. I love that they actually innovate and put out optics that take advantage of modern tech and manufacturing. I kind of want another 3x for my 11.5... I replaced the holosun 403b rds on my 10.5" with a 1x gen 2 cyclops, best decision ever! i do suffer from astigmatism though so red dots arent exactly ideal for me. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 5:41:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: I replaced the holosun 403b rds on my 10.5" with a 1x gen 2 cyclops, best decision ever! i do suffer from astigmatism though so red dots arent exactly ideal for me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: I was just thinking of how they could surpass Trijicon in most aspects for the hardcore acog fans. Battery is definitely easier to deal with, and tritium is obsolete for low light illumination in my opinion. The 3x is easy for me to aim both eyes open, but I need to get to the range this weekend to really test it. Playing operator in the yard isn't a fool proof test A top mount dot would really round it out for most people that can't use BAC or shift their eye dominance. I have found that moving your head just enough to get scope shadow makes it easier to swap dominance, and the tighter eyebox helps there. And no eyeball weld! The big boys no longer innovate. Maybe in another decade or two Trijicon will add a diopter to a 3 or 4x model. But even then, PA and the like will stay far ahead on the feature sets. I love that they actually innovate and put out optics that take advantage of modern tech and manufacturing. I kind of want another 3x for my 11.5... I replaced the holosun 403b rds on my 10.5" with a 1x gen 2 cyclops, best decision ever! i do suffer from astigmatism though so red dots arent exactly ideal for me. I am tempted to throw a 3x on it, or snag the 1x. I don't want to rip the DD fixed sight off of it, so perhaps a 1x on a qd mount is in the future. Or use the highest mount and spacer with the 3x and nest it above the sight. I already found that works with a chopped A2 style rear when I was messing around with the setup on my 14.5. Etched reticle is where it's at either way for me. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 6:02:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samwali]
[#14]
I believe the old version of the sig bravo 4 prism was actually made in Japan (not 100% on that) but yes for some reason not many manufactures want to touch prisms. They could still use Japanese glass at least. If they came out with a Glx or better yet a Plx prism with 4-5x magnification and top mounts for red dots I'd never need anything else.
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USA
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Posted: 5/20/2022 9:04:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samwali: I believe the old version of the sig bravo 4 prism was actually made in Japan (not 100% on that) but yes for some reason not many manufactures want to touch prisms. They could still use Japanese glass at least. If they came out with a Glx or better yet a Plx prism with 4-5x magnification and top mounts for red dots I'd never need anything else. Steiner does this. They claim it’s made in Germany but the body looks to be a slight modification to the Burris which is cast in China. So likely Chinese body with German guts. Leupold does this with their binoculars and spotting scopes too. Body cast in China, with Philippines or Japanese internals. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:02:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samwali: I believe the old version of the sig bravo 4 prism was actually made in Japan (not 100% on that) but yes for some reason not many manufactures don't want to touch prisms. They could still use Japanese glass at least. If they came out with a Glx or better yet a Plx prism with 4-5x magnification and top mounts for red dots I'd never need anything else. Yep, that is what I've been asking for. A 5x microprism w/ ACSS reticles, Autolive illumination, multiple mount heights, and provision for an RMR-footprint MRD would be a huge hit. It would even cover those of us who want useful magnification plus a sound passive NV aiming solution all in a relatively lightweight and compact package. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:49:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fordkicksass: Yep, that is what I've been asking for. A 5x microprism w/ ACSS reticles, Autolive illumination, multiple mount heights, and provision for an RMR-footprint MRD would be a huge hit. It would even cover those of us who want useful magnification plus a sound passive NV aiming solution all in a relatively lightweight and compact package. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fordkicksass: Originally Posted By Samwali: I believe the old version of the sig bravo 4 prism was actually made in Japan (not 100% on that) but yes for some reason not many manufactures don't want to touch prisms. They could still use Japanese glass at least. If they came out with a Glx or better yet a Plx prism with 4-5x magnification and top mounts for red dots I'd never need anything else. Yep, that is what I've been asking for. A 5x microprism w/ ACSS reticles, Autolive illumination, multiple mount heights, and provision for an RMR-footprint MRD would be a huge hit. It would even cover those of us who want useful magnification plus a sound passive NV aiming solution all in a relatively lightweight and compact package.  Attached FileThen come out with an rmr style dot, with top mounted tool less access for a 2032 battery. Would be a killer budget combo |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 1:49:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fordkicksass: Yep, that is what I've been asking for. A 5x microprism w/ ACSS reticles, Autolive illumination, multiple mount heights, and provision for an RMR-footprint MRD would be a huge hit. It would even cover those of us who want useful magnification plus a sound passive NV aiming solution all in a relatively lightweight and compact package. +1 I would buy that |
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USA
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:46:21 AM EDT
[#19]
I was telling someone at the range today that the biggest reasons I went with an ACOG over the micro 3x for my most recent optic purchase was only because of the lack of provision for piggybacking an RDS and reputation of the ACOG. If they got that and a dual illuminated fiber optic+battery in 4-5x in their plx line I'd pay trijicon money.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 12:31:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: The 1.64 is nice. In Strelok, the height difference doesn't change much in the bdc, but the feel when getting behind it is nice. If you don't mind going through Amazon, they have the ADM B2 qd mount in stock. Picture shows the original lever, but mine showed up with the tac lever. Damn nice for 80 bucks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Just got the 3x, where do i start. diopter is stiff but not hard to adjust. the brightness adjustment dial feel nice. my 1x cyclops has a mushy but functional dial, this one has nice clicks between each setting. its just as if not brighter than my 1x cyclops, plenty bright, though i usually use the black etching alone. the reticle size is totally useable. its not exactly large, but its not small either. to me it is easier to see the lines and dots and stuff than it was on either the vortex or burris 3x prisms, those both were small compared to this one. its also larger than the one in the 1x cyclops, which is a bit on the small side. eye box is little tight, but its really the main tradeoff or compromise when going to a prism. its not TOO tight and is comparable to other 3x micro prisms, but is smaller than the other options as well. glass is great, but to be honest i dont have alot of experience with super high-end glass. the image feels little brighter( more/ better light transmission) than the 1x cyclops, which is way better than my holosun RDS. I think im going to use the straight spacer. though if i want to run BUIS ill go with the 1.64 high cant mount. I may just run it clean with only the optic at least until i can get the QD mount. If you don't mind going through Amazon, they have the ADM B2 qd mount in stock. Picture shows the original lever, but mine showed up with the tac lever. Damn nice for 80 bucks. I might have some extra set screws from McMaster if anyone needs them. I had to buy a certain length for use with the spacer. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:45:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WhisperPickle]
[#21]
Anyone have a lead on a 556 version? I can preorder the 308 version on their site but I’m not sure how the holdovers would work.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:06:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By Capt_Destro: I might have some extra set screws from McMaster if anyone needs them. I had to buy a certain length for use with the spacer. Originally Posted By WhisperPickle: Anyone have a lead on a 556 version? I can preorder the 308 version on their site but I'm not sure how the holdovers would work. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:02:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Well got to the range today, forgot how much of a pain it is zeroing irons
I was just able to make out the little 5.56 holes at 50 yards with the 3x, so I was going back and forth till the irons were on, which took too many rounds, but the prism went easy. 1 inch right, 2 inches down. Irons were the same but 2 up, my eyes just suck. The long range section was booked for a competition, so I was stuck at the 100 yard section. Perhaps next trip I will confirm drops and fine tune the zero and bdc out to 500 0-100 yards was a breeze. Both eyes open plus the wide FOV is very quick. My light and handy carbine is finally light and handy again. About 6lbs 14oz unloaded with light, optic, and irons. About 7lbs 15oz with a pmag full of 55gr. Much better than almost 10! I am very pleased   Attached File |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2022 11:43:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capt_Destro: Honestly this sounds weird, I like my micro 3x. But I kind of hope they do an upgrsded full size with extended battery life. The option of a better eye box and I relief would be great battery life doesnt seem like an issue to me... |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2022 12:15:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Well got to the range today, forgot how much of a pain it is zeroing irons I was just able to make out the little 5.56 holes at 50 yards with the 3x, so I was going back and forth till the irons were on, which took too many rounds, but the prism went easy. 1 inch right, 2 inches down. Irons were the same but 2 up, my eyes just suck. The long range section was booked for a competition, so I was stuck at the 100 yard section. Perhaps next trip I will confirm drops and fine tune the zero and bdc out to 500 0-100 yards was a breeze. Both eyes open plus the wide FOV is very quick. My light and handy carbine is finally light and handy again. About 6lbs 14oz unloaded with light, optic, and irons. About 7lbs 15oz with a pmag full of 55gr. Much better than almost 10! I am very pleased https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/20220522_133755_20220522140113377_jpg-2393355.JPG Nice! man thats like almost the same as my buid, in theory at least, not so much looks. I think im also going to have to go with the qd mount and the angled mount, to allow for a rear buis. I like the clean look of no irons, but they would be nice as well and hardly increase the weight. |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 1:52:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Nice! man thats like almost the same as my buid, in theory at least, not so much looks. I think im also going to have to go with the qd mount and the angled mount, to allow for a rear buis. I like the clean look of no irons, but they would be nice as well and hardly increase the weight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: Well got to the range today, forgot how much of a pain it is zeroing irons I was just able to make out the little 5.56 holes at 50 yards with the 3x, so I was going back and forth till the irons were on, which took too many rounds, but the prism went easy. 1 inch right, 2 inches down. Irons were the same but 2 up, my eyes just suck. The long range section was booked for a competition, so I was stuck at the 100 yard section. Perhaps next trip I will confirm drops and fine tune the zero and bdc out to 500 0-100 yards was a breeze. Both eyes open plus the wide FOV is very quick. My light and handy carbine is finally light and handy again. About 6lbs 14oz unloaded with light, optic, and irons. About 7lbs 15oz with a pmag full of 55gr. Much better than almost 10! I am very pleased https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/20220522_133755_20220522140113377_jpg-2393355.JPG Nice! man thats like almost the same as my buid, in theory at least, not so much looks. I think im also going to have to go with the qd mount and the angled mount, to allow for a rear buis. I like the clean look of no irons, but they would be nice as well and hardly increase the weight. Then I added an lpvo and it was all down hill from there weight wise The irons and qd mount are worth the couple ounces for that purpose. Been waiting forever for the gen 3 mbus, but the pros are nice and small. Hardly notice them. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2022 2:29:38 PM EDT
[#27]
I went ahead and ordered the adm ad-b2 qd mount.
with the 1x i didnt feel the need for it, but i think with the 3x, IF i wanted to use the rifle for home defense or something I might want to just run irons instead of the 3x, and not really a fan of 45 offset irons. amazon says itll be here tomorrow, what a world we live in! |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 3:05:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: I went ahead and ordered the adm ad-b2 qd mount. with the 1x i didnt feel the need for it, but i think with the 3x, IF i wanted to use the rifle for home defense or something I might want to just run irons instead of the 3x, and not really a fan of 45 offset irons. amazon says itll be here tomorrow, what a world we live in! Took a minute to find the right tension, but mine is set up for easy removal and it doesn't shift when shooting. It's a fantastic little mount. |
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Posted: 5/29/2022 9:04:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#29]
Got to the range again today to confirm my zero since the long range area was open.
50 yard zero on a 14.5 is dead on to 500 yards. 600 is useless for m193. Loses too much energy to tell if there is a hit on steel without a spotter while 500 is a push with a quiet thwack. The energy on target at 500 is the minimum I would trust to wound, assuming a Red Dawn scenario. It's very quick on target. I was bouncing between the 3, 4, and 500 steel racks quicker than I could with an lpvo. I put up a shoot n see target at 50, the chevron is easy to stack holes on top of each other at that range; where you can just make out holes on regular paper targets in clear weather. Today was overcast with some rain so I needed that contrast. The adm mount also returns to zero nicely and doesn't shift with a moderate, easy to one hand, pressure for release on the lever. I removed it to confirm zero on my irons, slapped the 3x back on, and was whacking steel again without adjustments. I am very pleased with this set up. It's quickly become my favorite optic for a carbine. It will make a great little shtf piece. Here's the drops with the Frontier 55gr I'm burning through:  Attached File |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2022 12:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zaitsev9130]
[#30]
I got the American Defense AD-B2 STD yesterday, its pretty bad ass. fits perfectly and is a good size for these optics.
I need to figure out how to adjust the tension as its really hard to get off once its on there, but its tight and secure! Im going to rock the BUIS with the medium height swept back mount, which seems to work pretty well as far as eye relief and fit. it puts it just forward of the charging handle and juuust clears over the rear sight( UTG superslim), almost like it was made to do so! This is also my go to rifle so i want it to have the irons for back up. I have pretty high confidence in the micro prisms durability, but still its nice to have back ups and they hardly change the feel of the rifle. I need to find a nice lightweight light for it and its done! |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2022 12:50:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zaitsev9130]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Got to the range again today to confirm my zero since the long range area was open. 50 yard zero on a 14.5 is dead on to 500 yards. 600 is useless for m193. Loses too much energy to tell if there is a hit on steel without a spotter while 500 is a push with a quiet thwack. The energy on target at 500 is the minimum I would trust to wound, assuming a Red Dawn scenario. It's very quick on target. I was bouncing between the 3, 4, and 500 steel racks quicker than I could with an lpvo. I put up a shoot n see target at 50, the chevron is easy to stack holes on top of each other at that range; where you can just make out holes on regular paper targets in clear weather. Today was overcast with some rain so I needed that contrast. The adm mount also returns to zero nicely and doesn't shift with a moderate, easy to one hand, pressure for release on the lever. I removed it to confirm zero on my irons, slapped the 3x back on, and was whacking steel again without adjustments. I am very pleased with this set up. It's quickly become my favorite optic for a carbine. It will make a great little shtf piece. Here's the drops with the Frontier 55gr I'm burning through: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220529-180619_Strelok_Pro_j-2401342.JPG Any chance you can run that with the same ammo a 16" and 100 yard zero? Im looking into getting the app myself, strelok? is it? |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 12:56:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: I got the American Defense AD-B2 STD yesterday, its pretty bad ass. fits perfectly and is a good size for these optics. I need to figure out how to adjust the tension as its really hard to get off once its on there, but its tight and secure! Im going to rock the BUIS with the medium height swept back mount, which seems to work pretty well as far as eye relief and fit. it puts it just forward of the charging handle and juuust clears over the rear sight( UTG spuerslim), almost like it was made to do so! This is also my go to rifle so i want it to have the irons for back up. I have pretty high confidence in the micro prisms durability, but still its nice to have back ups and they hardly change the feel of the rifle. I need to find a nice lightweight light for it and its done! Tension wise, adjust it until you cannot move the mount back and forth on the rail, but can open it one handed.  Attached File Attached FileI adjusted mine to the point it was super easy to open, then tightened the nut one piston further and at was perfect. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/30/2022 1:58:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Any chance you can run that with the same ammo a 16" and 100 yard zero? Im looking into getting the app myself, strelok? is it? Not the person you were talking to but I have strelok pro. I had the free version and I felt the $10 for the full version was worth it. Mainly cause you pay once and always have this pretty useful tool available to you, even if you don't use it too often. |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 1:58:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Any chance you can run that with the same ammo a 16" and 100 yard zero? Im looking into getting the app myself, strelok? is it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: Got to the range again today to confirm my zero since the long range area was open. 50 yard zero on a 14.5 is dead on to 500 yards. 600 is useless for m193. Loses too much energy to tell if there is a hit on steel without a spotter while 500 is a push with a quiet thwack. The energy on target at 500 is the minimum I would trust to wound, assuming a Red Dawn scenario. It's very quick on target. I was bouncing between the 3, 4, and 500 steel racks quicker than I could with an lpvo. I put up a shoot n see target at 50, the chevron is easy to stack holes on top of each other at that range; where you can just make out holes on regular paper targets in clear weather. Today was overcast with some rain so I needed that contrast. The adm mount also returns to zero nicely and doesn't shift with a moderate, easy to one hand, pressure for release on the lever. I removed it to confirm zero on my irons, slapped the 3x back on, and was whacking steel again without adjustments. I am very pleased with this set up. It's quickly become my favorite optic for a carbine. It will make a great little shtf piece. Here's the drops with the Frontier 55gr I'm burning through: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220529-180619_Strelok_Pro_j-2401342.JPG Any chance you can run that with the same ammo a 16" and 100 yard zero? Im looking into getting the app myself, strelok? is it? I am using Strelok Pro though. Manual says to zero at 100 yards: 1 inch high at 1,000 ft, .5in at 2,000, dead on at 3,000. I used this calculator at Shooters Notes to estimate the velocity difference, which has been fairly accurate for me for non precision velocity estimates. This is using the velocity measurements I got at my elevation of just over 1,000 ft on a borrowed chronograph for calculations. 14.5" barrel calculated to less than 100 fps difference at 16" The mount you use I belive gives about a 2.75" height above bore. But the hight differences only seem to add or lose a couple yards. With 1" being about 1 moa at 100, and the 3x having .25 moa adjustments, that gave these results: 1/2 moa (2 clicks) up is a 70/172 yard zero  Attached File1 moa (4 clicks) is a 203, or can be a 60/200 yard zero.  Attached File100 even  Attached FileAnd 50  Attached FileThe 60/200 or 50 yard zero looks promising. M193 piddles out after 500 yards, so I generally focus on what's close at 500. 50 yard zero would be a slight hold under at 4-500, but put 300 yards at the inner point of the chevron and 600 dead on. 60/200 would put 500 yards dead on, and you would float around the bottom of the chevron legs for 300. Either one would be combat/steel effective like the sight was designed for. And either is more than close enough for gubmint work. It's not a precision optic, so either zero is perfect. Do note that I am not an expert, and these are estimates at a hobbyist level
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Posted: 5/30/2022 2:08:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: I don't know your elevation, nor do I have a 16". I am using Strelok Pro though. Manual says to zero at 100 yards: 1 inch high at 1,000 ft, .5in at 2,000, dead on at 3,000. I used this calculator at Shooters Notes to estimate the velocity difference, which has been fairly accurate for me for non precision velocity estimates. This is using the velocity measurements I got at my elevation of just over 1,000 ft on a borrowed chronograph for calculations. The mount you use I belive gives about a 2.75" height above bore. But the hight differences only seem to add or lose a couple yards. With 1" being about 1 moa at 100, and the 3x having .25 moa adjustments, that gave these results: 1/2 moa (2 clicks) up is a 70/172 yard zero https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-100604_Strelok_Pro_j-2401952.JPG 1 moa (4 clicks) is a 203, or can be a 60/200 yard zero. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-100613_Strelok_Pro_j-2401956.JPG 100 even https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-101758_Strelok_Pro_j-2401965.JPG And 50 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-100637_Strelok_Pro_j-2401967.JPG The 60/200 or 50 yard zero looks promising. M193 piddles out after 500 yards, so I generally focus on what's close at 500. 50 yard zero would be a slight hold under at 4-500, but put 300 yards at the inner point of the chevron and 600 dead on. 60/200 would put 500 yards dead on, and you would float around the bottom of the chevron legs for 300. Either one would be combat/steel effective like the sight was designed for. And either is more than close enough for gubmint work. It's not a precision optic, so either zero is perfect. Do note that I am not an expert, and these are estimates at a hobbyist level Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: Got to the range again today to confirm my zero since the long range area was open. 50 yard zero on a 14.5 is dead on to 500 yards. 600 is useless for m193. Loses too much energy to tell if there is a hit on steel without a spotter while 500 is a push with a quiet thwack. The energy on target at 500 is the minimum I would trust to wound, assuming a Red Dawn scenario. It's very quick on target. I was bouncing between the 3, 4, and 500 steel racks quicker than I could with an lpvo. I put up a shoot n see target at 50, the chevron is easy to stack holes on top of each other at that range; where you can just make out holes on regular paper targets in clear weather. Today was overcast with some rain so I needed that contrast. The adm mount also returns to zero nicely and doesn't shift with a moderate, easy to one hand, pressure for release on the lever. I removed it to confirm zero on my irons, slapped the 3x back on, and was whacking steel again without adjustments. I am very pleased with this set up. It's quickly become my favorite optic for a carbine. It will make a great little shtf piece. Here's the drops with the Frontier 55gr I'm burning through: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220529-180619_Strelok_Pro_j-2401342.JPG Any chance you can run that with the same ammo a 16" and 100 yard zero? Im looking into getting the app myself, strelok? is it? I am using Strelok Pro though. Manual says to zero at 100 yards: 1 inch high at 1,000 ft, .5in at 2,000, dead on at 3,000. I used this calculator at Shooters Notes to estimate the velocity difference, which has been fairly accurate for me for non precision velocity estimates. This is using the velocity measurements I got at my elevation of just over 1,000 ft on a borrowed chronograph for calculations. The mount you use I belive gives about a 2.75" height above bore. But the hight differences only seem to add or lose a couple yards. With 1" being about 1 moa at 100, and the 3x having .25 moa adjustments, that gave these results: 1/2 moa (2 clicks) up is a 70/172 yard zero https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-100604_Strelok_Pro_j-2401952.JPG 1 moa (4 clicks) is a 203, or can be a 60/200 yard zero. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-100613_Strelok_Pro_j-2401956.JPG 100 even https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-101758_Strelok_Pro_j-2401965.JPG And 50 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/Screenshot_20220530-100637_Strelok_Pro_j-2401967.JPG The 60/200 or 50 yard zero looks promising. M193 piddles out after 500 yards, so I generally focus on what's close at 500. 50 yard zero would be a slight hold under at 4-500, but put 300 yards at the inner point of the chevron and 600 dead on. 60/200 would put 500 yards dead on, and you would float around the bottom of the chevron legs for 300. Either one would be combat/steel effective like the sight was designed for. And either is more than close enough for gubmint work. It's not a precision optic, so either zero is perfect. Do note that I am not an expert, and these are estimates at a hobbyist level 50  Attached File60/200  Attached FileETA: the differences between the 14.5 and estimated 16" velocities seems negligible. Less than 10 yards difference per hash mark except at 600 yard line. 14.5, 50 yard zero for comparison  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 2:28:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Not the person you were talking to but I have strelok pro. I had the free version and I felt the $10 for the full version was worth it. Mainly cause you pay once and always have this pretty useful tool available to you, even if you don't use it too often. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Originally Posted By Zaitsev9130: Any chance you can run that with the same ammo a 16" and 100 yard zero? Im looking into getting the app myself, strelok? is it? Not the person you were talking to but I have strelok pro. I had the free version and I felt the $10 for the full version was worth it. Mainly cause you pay once and always have this pretty useful tool available to you, even if you don't use it too often. It's easy to get your estimate and compare. Saves ammo vs just shooting and looking for the splash
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USA
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Posted: 5/30/2022 4:14:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: I love it for zeroing purposes as well as learning drops. It's easy to get your estimate and compare. Saves ammo vs just shooting and looking for the splash Exactly, strelok enabled me to "calibrate" my acog to my 11.5 AR and now it's my favorite shooting experience |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 4:27:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Exactly, strelok enabled me to "calibrate" my acog to my 11.5 AR and now it's my favorite shooting experience Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: I love it for zeroing purposes as well as learning drops. It's easy to get your estimate and compare. Saves ammo vs just shooting and looking for the splash Exactly, strelok enabled me to "calibrate" my acog to my 11.5 AR and now it's my favorite shooting experience With 5.56 it's easy, since you can generally find the results online. In the calculator I linked in my previous response, you can get fairly accurate estimates for velocity differences in different barrel lengths. Just gotta make sure the charge weight and bullet weight stay the same between the reference load and new load section. It won't be perfect, so for a precision build, a chrono would be a good investment. For the microprism it's a good estimate. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2022 12:34:09 PM EDT
[#39]
I finally got this rifle out to the range!
shot pretty well on steel silhouettes out to 400, past that it was hard to verify hits. zeroed a little low at 100 because thats what i had to work with, and it while the bdc marks didnt line up perfectly with the ranges, it was pretty easy to use them to determine the proper hold at a given range. glass was great, to me at least. i was looking into the rising sun on a dry and brown background, so not exactly ideal conditions and i was still able to clearly see the targets and in most cases hits. take away, its waayyy better than 1x at anything over 100 yards. while at 400+ yards i wouldnt have minded some addtl magnification. fwiw the 1x also worked well out to about 300, past that it was hard to see the target or the hits. at 100 and 200 it was stupid easy to ring steel with my 10.5" and the cyclops. just put the chevron on the target and bam. with my 16" and 3x prism there was a moment when i was like, man if i had a 1-6 id probably be able to make 500 or more.. but then i had to remind myself, THATS NOT WHAT THIS BUILD IS FOR!! lol for what i wanted its almost perfect, light and effective to a few hundred yards, this is a "GP" type of build, you can only pick one, jack of all trades kinda thing.. its not perfect at super close ranges, or relatively long ranges, and thats ok, it excels in the intermediate ranges. I have other builds for cqb and long range. I do still want to get a "high end" lpvo down the road for a different build, probably my next major optic purchase later this year or next. I'd love to see some more compact lpvos like the new Primary arms plx 1-8, but on the slx or glx level lol. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 1:26:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zaitsev9130: I finally got this rifle out to the range! shot pretty well on steel silhouettes out to 400, past that it was hard to verify hits. zeroed a little low at 100 because thats what i had to work with, and it while the bdc marks didnt line up perfectly with the ranges, it was pretty easy to use them to determine the proper hold at a given range. glass was great, to me at least. i was looking into the rising sun on a dry and brown background, so not exactly ideal conditions and i was still able to clearly see the targets and in most cases hits. take away, its waayyy better than 1x at anything over 100 yards. while at 400+ yards i wouldnt have minded some addtl magnification. fwiw the 1x also worked well out to about 300, past that it was hard to see the target or the hits. at 100 and 200 it was stupid easy to ring steel with my 10.5" and the cyclops. just put the chevron on the target and bam. with my 16" and 3x prism there was a moment when i was like, man if i had a 1-6 id probably be able to make 500 or more.. but then i had to remind myself, THATS NOT WHAT THIS BUILD IS FOR!! lol for what i wanted its almost perfect, light and effective to a few hundred yards, this is a "GP" type of build, you can only pick one, jack of all trades kinda thing.. its not perfect at super close ranges, or relatively long ranges, and thats ok, it excels in the intermediate ranges. I have other builds for cqb and long range. I do still want to get a "high end" lpvo down the road for a different build, probably my next major optic purchase later this year or next. I'd love to see some more compact lpvos like the new Primary arms plx 1-8, but on the slx or glx level lol. For an easy zero that matches well, if you have steel to shoot, after the 100 yard zero use the 300 yard drop to tune it, and then the 400 if you feel the need. For my 14.5 it's around the bottom point of the chevron instead of the tip of the drop tree. I think a 16 inch barrel will be closer to the 50 yard of the 14.5. Manual does say inch high at 100 at 1,000 ft elevation, half inch high at 2,000, and dead on at 3,000. For the weight conscious folk, I snapped this pick last night 9.3 oz with the adm mount and high cantilever  Attached File |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2022 6:22:01 PM EDT
[#41]
I mocked up a 16" xm193 at 3150fps. I like the 50 yard zero. but do need to get out to a square range here i can paper it at 50 and 100. last time all i had was a 100 yard target stand as the closest thing, I got a rough zero kneeling at 50 then confirmed at 100 and just ran from there, so not ideal.
Im also hoping to see if i can get a good 68~ grain bthp or something load to supplement the m193. I mocked up a 68 grain Hornady bthp and its not very far off from the 55 gr out to 400, at 5 and 6 its more significant but that not really what its for anyways. |
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Posted: 6/13/2022 8:38:10 PM EDT
[#42]
I finally have a line on a RS Yugo AK Mount. Been sitting on the AKOT upper for like 3 months.
The whole setup should be atleast 12-13 oz. The mastermount felt like it was over 1 LB |
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Posted: 6/13/2022 8:44:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MonolithicRP: Coming back to this since I now have a 3x in my hands. Online 3x manual still says 10-32 thread, my hardcopy that came with the optic says m8x0.8. The screws included with the 3x are the same as the ones that came with my 1x optics based on my measurements. By measurement, I'd say the supplied screws are 10-32 and not m5x0.8, though its hard to tell since the thread specs are close between the two anyway. The included screws thread right into a 10-32 nut. The 10-32 screws I sourced elsewhere thread into both the 1x and 3x optics without any signs of a problem. I don't have any m5x0.8 screws on hand to check against. This whole thing just seems odd. I sent an email to PA to ask for clarification but if I can get some m5x0.8 screws I'm going to see how well they seem to fit the threads. ETA: I forgot to add...I don't think Magpul buis hardware is 10-32. Pretty sure its 10-24, so checking either 10-32 or m5x0.8 against those nuts isn't going to work. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MonolithicRP: Originally Posted By Capt_Destro: Using one of the spacers I don't care about: The 10-32 won't thread in at all. The M5 threads in but it is tight. No damage. Factory screws thread in nice and easy. Another easy test. Magpul BUIS Screws are 10-32. So i took the nut from one of these. The factory screws won't thread into a 10-32 nut. Factory Screws thread into an M5 nut but feel a tad looser than the Mcmaster Carr M5 screws I have on hand. These have to be metric. I just need some concave head screws that will work with this. Seriously weird. Honestly ran into the same issue with the Fullsize 3x. (10-32 Screws are from multiple sources) 10-32 screws from rs regulate and ak master mount don't thread in. Coming back to this since I now have a 3x in my hands. Online 3x manual still says 10-32 thread, my hardcopy that came with the optic says m8x0.8. The screws included with the 3x are the same as the ones that came with my 1x optics based on my measurements. By measurement, I'd say the supplied screws are 10-32 and not m5x0.8, though its hard to tell since the thread specs are close between the two anyway. The included screws thread right into a 10-32 nut. The 10-32 screws I sourced elsewhere thread into both the 1x and 3x optics without any signs of a problem. I don't have any m5x0.8 screws on hand to check against. This whole thing just seems odd. I sent an email to PA to ask for clarification but if I can get some m5x0.8 screws I'm going to see how well they seem to fit the threads. ETA: I forgot to add...I don't think Magpul buis hardware is 10-32. Pretty sure its 10-24, so checking either 10-32 or m5x0.8 against those nuts isn't going to work. You are right about the magpul hardware, my bad. However the 10-32 screws from Master Mount/RS Regulate were a no go. Glad we got clarification at least. Mc Master is the way to go. I noticed that my local menards stocks them. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 7:17:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capt_Destro]
[#44]
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USA
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Posted: 6/23/2022 9:04:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jamess396]
[#45]
I've ran this optic in around 7 multi gun matches and it still is kicking. there was an issue where my zero shifted mid-match but I believe it was because of my plastic pic rail. Rail is now aluminum and has held zero for the past 3 matches. Up close targets are easy to engage with both eyes open, and the 3x really shines for 200 yard steel targets. Illumination is fine even in bright sunlight.
 
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Posted: 6/23/2022 9:10:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jamess396: I've ran this optic in around 7 multi gun matches and it still is kicking. there was an issue where my zero shifted mid-match but I believe it was because of my plastic pic rail. Rail is now aluminum and has held zero for the past 3 matches. Up close targets are easy to engage with both eyes open, and the 3x really shines for 200 yard steel targets. Illumination is fine even in bright sunlight. https://i.imgur.com/zL2biOR.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VR3NgWI.jpg I've been heavily utilizing the auto off feature. Recent attempted break ins, among other criminal mischief, in my peaceful little community. And of course the coyotes and mountain lions. It's been great for grab and go at night. Also real good for shooting steel at 3,4, and 500 yards. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/23/2022 9:21:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jamess396]
[#47]
Yeah im curious how the auto-off/shake awake extends battery life. part of me wants to run the same battery until it dies just to see, but with my luck it will be in the middle of a match stage.
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Posted: 6/23/2022 9:38:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jamess396: Yeah im curious how the auto-off/shake awake extends battery life. part of me wants to run the same battery until it dies just to see, but with my luck it will be in the middle of a match stage. Mines been "on" since I got it so far About the same as manually turning it off. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 10:07:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: It works like the Holosun shake awake. Mines been "on" since I got it so far About the same as manually turning it off. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By jamess396: Yeah im curious how the auto-off/shake awake extends battery life. part of me wants to run the same battery until it dies just to see, but with my luck it will be in the middle of a match stage. Mines been "on" since I got it so far About the same as manually turning it off. The battery life has been excellent so far. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 10:21:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Liaztraht]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capt_Destro: The battery life has been excellent so far. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capt_Destro: Originally Posted By Liaztraht: Originally Posted By jamess396: Yeah im curious how the auto-off/shake awake extends battery life. part of me wants to run the same battery until it dies just to see, but with my luck it will be in the middle of a match stage. Mines been "on" since I got it so far About the same as manually turning it off. The battery life has been excellent so far. My HS503cu has been on for 2 years with the circle dot (less battery life) using its shake awake. It gets pulled put of the safe at least once a week to verify function, go to the range, or on occasion check on a bump in the night. It should be similar battery life wise if I remember right. Up to 50k with just the dot on a medium setting, less with the circle dot. I keep it bright enough to overcome a bright weapon light and function in noon lighting, which is setting 9 or 10 out of 12. The PA 3x is taking over the Holosun's duty though. |
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