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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Suppressed 6.5 Grendel Velocity Tests-10 Factory Loads From 12.5" & 18" Barrels (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/21/2018 11:47:12 PM EDT
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I finally made it out for the 6.5 Grendel tests I've been planning for the better part of a year. 12.5" and 18" seem to be pretty common barrel lengths in this caliber so I built up two AR's around Ballistic Advantage barrels and BCG's. The loads tested are all first run factory rounds from several manufacturers. This test doesn't cover every single load available in the Grendel chambering but it does cover most of the more common loads. For this test, I made a choice to not test the relatively expensive boutique loads, focusing instead on what the average shooter can reasonably afford. That said, I did include a few of the less expensive options from Alexander Arms. It just seemed appropriate, considering Bill Alexander played a major role in creating the round. Using suppressors for this test was also a conscious decision. It's perfectly understandable to suppress the 12.5" but the 18" is a virtual musket with an Omega on the end of it. In the end, I chose to suppress both rifles for continuity. From a very general standpoint, a suppressor adds between .5% and 1% velocity to a round, although that can change based on a number of factors. In some cases there is no velocity increase but I've been well served by estimating a 1% increase with a suppressor. I'll be adding ballistic tables to this thread as I get a chance to create them and if there's demand for it, I can shoot the Wolf 100gr and Hornady American Gunner 123gr unsuppressed and post results, because I have a surplus of both loads on hand at the moment. As it stands now, I wanted to get something put up. Standard disclaimer: The data below can be useful as a guide, a starting point if you will, to find some loads you want to see if your barrel 'likes'. If you're depending on this ammo to perform in a self defense or hunting situation, it's always best to test it for reliability and performance in YOUR rifle(s). The Rifles: 12.5" BA Hanson Premium Barrel, BA BCG, Geissele SSA trigger, SiCo Omega suppressor/ASR FH, SLR Rifleworks 11.7" MLOK rail, LWRC Compact stock. Cerakoted in Haley Disruptive Gray and Magpul FDE. The glass on it for this pic is a Vortex Viper PST II 3-15. This is the scope used on both rifles for the test, but it lives on the 18". This one wears an ACOG for normal use. Attached File 18" BA SPR Premium Barrel, BA BCG, Geissele SSA-E trigger, SiCo Omega suppressor/ASR FH, Geissele MK13 15" rail, B5 Sopmod stock, Vortex Viper PST II 3-15. Cerakoted in Sniper Gray and Magpul FDE. Attached File The Ammo: Attached File The Chronograph: MasterChrony, 12 feet from the muzzle. Atmospherics: Air Temp: 74 degrees Humidity: 73% Dewpoint: 65 degrees Pressure: 29.90 Elevation: 1030' The Results: I calculated average velocity, extreme spread and standard deviation using Excel. Group size is a new line item for my tests and was calculated with a digital caliper reading plugged into an Excel formula. Attached File Attached File |
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These ballistic tables were calculated using a popular ballistics program on the internet. I inputted the known variables including the velocity, ballistic co-efficient, weight of the bullet and weather conditions with a 100 yard zero for both barrel lengths tested. BC's were all found on the manufacturer's or bullet maker's website. The windage in the charts was calculated using a 10mph wind at 90 degrees (full value). Bullet drop is highlighted in red for easy reference. The graphic chart depicts bullet drop in inches out to 1000 yards.
I still have inquiries out to a few companies about expansion thresholds for these rounds and will update as the information comes in. Wolf 100gr FMJ Ballistic Co-efficient .400 (G1)-Best guess Cannot find reliable fragmentation/expansion velocity for this round. Attached File Hornady American Gunner 123gr BTHP I have no chart for this round yet. I'm waiting to hear back from Hornady about the BC and can't find reliable info through open sources. Federal Fusion MSR 120gr SP Ballistic Co-efficient .340 (G1) Cannot find reliable fragmentation/expansion velocity for this round. Attached File Federal American Eagle 120gr OTM Ballistic Co-efficient .421 (G1) Cannot find reliable fragmentation/expansion velocity for this round. Attached File Federal Gold Medal Berger 130gr VLD Ballistic Co-efficient .560 (G1) Cannot find reliable fragmentation/expansion velocity for this round. Attached File |
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Hornady Black 123gr ELD
Ballistic Co-efficient .506 (G1) Cannot find reliable fragmentation/expansion velocity for this round. Attached File Hornady Custom 123gr SST Ballistic Co-efficient .510 (G1) 1600fps expansion floor??-Anecdotal Attached File Alexander Arms Hornady 129gr SST Ballistic Co-efficient .485 (G1) 1600fps expansion floor??-Anecdotal Attached File Alexander Arms 123gr Lapua Scenar Ballistic Co-efficient .527 (G1) Cannot find reliable fragmentation/expansion velocity for this round. Attached File Alexander Arms Nosler 120gr BT Ballistic Co-efficient .458 (G1) 1800fps expansion floor Attached File |
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You're all welcome! Honestly, I compile all this information for myself but am happy to share. I was going to work on ballistics tables this weekend but plans changed and I'm busy both days. I'll work on it in the evenings throughout the week and get them posted as they get done. |
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Faster than normal powder is my guess. Quoted:
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The 123gr bthp load is very odd to me, Idon't get how it can be nearly the same in both barrels. The other Hornady ammo is normal speed in the 18" but the bthp is so slow for some reason. 
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Quoted:
Faster than normal powder is my guess. Quoted:
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The 123gr bthp load is very odd to me, Idon't get how it can be nearly the same in both barrels. The other Hornady ammo is normal speed in the 18" but the bthp is so slow for some reason. Although I guess I'm comparing some of his numbers to mine and I get different speeds. My 18" shoots sst loads over 2500fps. |
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First of all, thank you so much for making this thread, I've been looking forward to it. Can you please tell us what kind of groups you've been getting with these loads and barrel lengths? Also, do you know what the weight of each rifle is? Thanks! |
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First of all, thank you so much for making this thread, I've been looking forward to it. Can you please tell us what kind of groups you've been getting with these loads and barrel lengths? Also, do you know what the weight of each rifle is? Thanks! See the OP for groups. The 12.5" weighed in at 8lb 5oz with an empty mag as configured for the test. The 18" is a pig and weighed in at 11lb 7oz with empty mag & as configured. Both were shot off a Lead Sled. |
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Great test! That wolf is shocking slow, expected it to be the quickest due to its bullet weight. |
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Quoted: It’s slow as fuck from the 12.5 especially relative to the higher grain stuff, but it also gained a ton of velocity relative to them out of the 18”. The exact opposite is true of the American Gunner. Please do the 90grain American eagle from the 12.5. Thanks for your work |
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Great work. I can appreciate the time and effort that went into this. I've been wanting to get a LabRadar to do the same thing. Since I have the same 12.5" barrel and can, this gives me good starting estimates. My 12.5" BA doesn't cycle the Wolf consistently even with the can. Glad to see it groups nicely for cheap ammo. Given your results I may want to open the gas port before pinning the gas block so I can reliably run the Wollf steel case. Thanks for posting this. |
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I'm shooting a 16" grendel with a Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel with a Sandman-K. My gun loves both the Gunner and the Hornady Custom SST.. I had contacted Hornady about the BC for the Gunner, to get a starting point for my strelok app. They told me it was the same as the SST. However in my trajectory validations it wasn't quite right. I played with the BC a bit and found a BC of 0.49 is dead on out to 500 yards so far. My gun is shooting the Gunner at a muzzle velocity of 2280FPS and the SST at 2320FPS |
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I'm shooting a 16" grendel with a Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel with a Sandman-K. My gun is shooting the Gunner at a muzzle velocity of 2280FPS and the SST at 2320FPS |
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Great work. I can appreciate the time and effort that went into this. I've been wanting to get a LabRadar to do the same thing. Since I have the same 12.5" barrel and can, this gives me good starting estimates. My 12.5" BA doesn't cycle the Wolf consistently even with the can. Glad to see it groups nicely for cheap ammo. Given your results I may want to open the gas port before pinning the gas block so I can reliably run the Wollf steel case. Thanks for posting this. |
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Quoted:
I'm shooting a 16" grendel with a Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel with a Sandman-K. My gun loves both the Gunner and the Hornady Custom SST.. I had contacted Hornady about the BC for the Gunner, to get a starting point for my strelok app. They told me it was the same as the SST. However in my trajectory validations it wasn't quite right. I played with the BC a bit and found a BC of 0.49 is dead on out to 500 yards so far. My gun is shooting the Gunner at a muzzle velocity of 2280FPS and the SST at 2320FPS |
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Quoted: Interesting, those numbers seem low compared to my 18". I haven't gotten my hands on the gunner ammo yet but I shoot SST ammo at 2550fps. It's been a while since I've tested it, but that's quite a difference. Pure speculation on my part, but it is possible I suppose. |
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Yes, it is quite a difference. I'm wondering if they changed the load somehow, either the powder or the charge. If that's true, you may have some of the "older", presumably hotter load. I wonder what a new box would do out of your 18" now. Pure speculation on my part, but it is possible I suppose. Quoted:
Quoted: Interesting, those numbers seem low compared to my 18". I haven't gotten my hands on the gunner ammo yet but I shoot SST ammo at 2550fps. It's been a while since I've tested it, but that's quite a difference. Pure speculation on my part, but it is possible I suppose. |
| If anyone would like, I can add more data points, albeit with a different barrel brand, and different suppressor. I'll be building my Grendel this weekend with a 16" faxon barrel. It'll have a Griffin recce 7 on it (until my TBAC ultra 5 breaks out of jail), and I can use a magnetospeed v3 for velocity readings. Not sure which ammo y'all would like tested, but I can try to procure a few different loads that OP used. |
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If anyone would like, I can add more data points, albeit with a different barrel brand, and different suppressor. I'll be building my Grendel this weekend with a 16" faxon barrel. It'll have a Griffin recce 7 on it (until my TBAC ultra 5 breaks out of jail), and I can use a magnetospeed v3 for velocity readings. Not sure which ammo y'all would like tested, but I can try to procure a few different loads that OP used. |
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Quoted: Interesting, those numbers seem low compared to my 18". I haven't gotten my hands on the gunner ammo yet but I shoot SST ammo at 2550fps. It's been a while since I've tested it, but that's quite a difference. Here's a validation group with the American Gunner.... I'm gonna say I'm good using my numbers haha 
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Just got back from the range today testing my 12" with the new TBAC Ultra 5 Ti Suppressor and a Bootleg adjustable bolt carrier.
I took 2 factory loads, 90gr TNT Federal AE and 120gr Federal AE OTM. Temp was 91°F. 
 
12" Unsuppressed 90gr TNT Federal AE, 91°F: 2702 2681 FTFeed 2670 2642 FTFeed 2654 FTLock on last round Avg: 2670fps Suppressed 90gr TNT 2675 2658 2660 2671 2685 2723 2700 2690 2682 Avg: 2683fps 
120gr American Eagle Suppressed, 12" Grendel 2360 2411 2384 2375 2398 2374 2397 2387 2349 2384 2406 Avg: 2384 fps Groups at 75yds using 1-4x GRSC: 
Now I know why Fortier likes his 12.5" so much. I think he had the first one. |
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Just got back from the range today testing my 12" with the new TBAC Ultra 5 Ti Suppressor and a Bootleg adjustable bolt carrier. I took 2 factory loads, 90gr TNT Federal AE and 120gr Federal AE OTM. Temp was 91°F. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/20180717_123738_zpshszrkkhk.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_113305_zpsyjkthkn0.jpg https://media.mwstatic.com/product-images/880x660/Primary/407/407415.jpg 12" Unsuppressed 90gr TNT Federal AE, 91°F: 2702 2681 FTFeed 2670 2642 FTFeed 2654 FTLock on last round Avg: 2670fps Suppressed 90gr TNT 2675 2658 2660 2671 2685 2723 2700 2690 2682 Avg: 2683fps http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-b7687/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6596/17363/Fed-AE-65Grendel-s-o__16120.1519949232.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on 120gr American Eagle Suppressed, 12" Grendel 2360 2411 2384 2375 2398 2374 2397 2387 2349 2384 2406 Avg: 2384 fps Groups at 75yds using 1-4x GRSC: http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_170156_zpsurtmn8ob.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_170203_zpsc5shwryr.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_171251_zpseasrwmha.jpg Now I know why Fortier likes his 12.5" so much. I think he had the first one. Thank you so much. I have a 12 inch and this was very helpful. |
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I want to see that 90 in a gel block so badly. Thank you so much. I have a 12 inch and this was very helpful. Quoted:
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Just got back from the range today testing my 12" with the new TBAC Ultra 5 Ti Suppressor and a Bootleg adjustable bolt carrier. I took 2 factory loads, 90gr TNT Federal AE and 120gr Federal AE OTM. Temp was 91°F. http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/20180717_123738_zpshszrkkhk.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_113305_zpsyjkthkn0.jpg https://media.mwstatic.com/product-images/880x660/Primary/407/407415.jpg 12" Unsuppressed 90gr TNT Federal AE, 91°F: 2702 2681 FTFeed 2670 2642 FTFeed 2654 FTLock on last round Avg: 2670fps Suppressed 90gr TNT 2675 2658 2660 2671 2685 2723 2700 2690 2682 Avg: 2683fps http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-b7687/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/6596/17363/Fed-AE-65Grendel-s-o__16120.1519949232.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on 120gr American Eagle Suppressed, 12" Grendel 2360 2411 2384 2375 2398 2374 2397 2387 2349 2384 2406 Avg: 2384 fps Groups at 75yds using 1-4x GRSC: http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_170156_zpsurtmn8ob.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_170203_zpsc5shwryr.jpg http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/65%20Grendel%20Reloading/20180727_171251_zpseasrwmha.jpg Now I know why Fortier likes his 12.5" so much. I think he had the first one. Thank you so much. I have a 12 inch and this was very helpful.  8 Hogs Down Including Twofer  Federal Speer TNT 90 gr. Grendel Hog Test #2 - 150 lb Sow  19 Hogs Down In North Texas He's been using 90gr TNT a lot lately, with very positive results. If you look at some of the recovered bullets, they were mushroomed like a soft point. |
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Just some additional info in regards to ammo chronographed by the OP. From testing it appears the expansion threshold for 123 grain A-Max, SST and ELD-M is 1800 FPS. I suspect the 129 grain SST would need at least 1800 FPS to expand. I tested the Wolf/Branual bimetal 100 grain FMJ in 1 gallon water jugs at 50 yards with a 16” 6.5 Grendel. In water testing the 100 grain FMJ had early yaw but did not fragment. The base of the bullet flattens out and the hollow tip gets bent over but the bullets were intact when recovered. The recovered bullet weighed 89.6 grains. The bullet penetrated five one gallon water filled jugs which is a minimum of 25” to a maximum of 30” of water. In water this bullet penetrated in a straight line but when I tested the 110 grain PPU FMJ the bullet yawed off to the side and likely would exit a normal gel block. In watching video gel testing it is fairly common for FMJ bullets to yaw and exit a gel block if the bullet does not fragment. I chronographed the Wolf 100 grain FMJ ammo at 2507 FPS out of this 16” 6.5 Grendel. I suspect the 100 grain FMJ bimetal Wolf 6.5 Grendel will prove effective on farel hogs at close range. The bullet construction is very similar to 7.62x39 123 grain FMJ but the 6.5 Grendel has a higher BC and a hollow bullet nose. It was posted on another forum Hornady conducted dopler radar test with the 123 grain BTHP American Gunner ammo. Hornady advised the AG G1 BC is .450 and .225 G7. Here is a link to a thread with a lot of additional information on the Hornady 123 grain BTHP American Gunner ammo. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?15344-Hornady-American-Gunner-compaired-against-Hornady-Black/page3 Here is a good video of 7.62x39 123 grain FMJ out of a 16” WASR, I’d expect similar performance out of the 6.5 Grendel 100 grain FMJ Wolf. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Y4ixQfWkI#fauxfullscreen |
The 6.5mm SSTs expand consistently down to 1800fps when we did calibrated gel testing on them. We did 10-shot samples, and consulted with Hornady on their results as well. They do testing on gel out to 400yds to maintain real-world RPM, which has an effect on behavior in the tissue.
The 123gr A-MAX expands down to ~1600fps, but isn't meant to be a controlled expansion bullet. At Grendel speeds, it works very well as a hunting bullet on broadside shots on deer. Its performance on hogs has been good, but not as good as the 123gr SST. Same for the ELD-M, which is basically an A-MAX with the new tip just to streamline production. Grendel never needed the new tips, but 123gr ELD-M got them anyway. Some newer projectiles with lower expansion threshold are: 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range-1300fps 110gr Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos-1500fps I think the Barnes 127gr LRX is supposed to expand down to 1600fps. It's quite long, and more ideal when fired from a 6.5-08 class of cartridge, but has been used successfully in 6.5 Grendel to hunt Oryx from a JP complete rifle. Several hunters with 6.5 Grendel SBRs or pistols are using the 129gr ABLR, with DRT or quick kill results as that bullet is extremely soft, but stays bonded. It works as advertised, and necropsy has shown immediate and rapid expansion on hogs, with full opening within an inch of penetration, then massive cavitation of the vitals, usually with exits on broadside shots. I have also been using modified Hornady GMXs cut down to 94gr in 6.5 Grendel. From an 18", it does 2750-2800fps, expands really well and retains 99% weight. 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Suppressed 6.5 Grendel Velocity Tests-10 Factory Loads From 12.5" & 18" Barrels (Page 1 of 2)
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