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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2024 7:53:11 PM EDT
I have an existing lower registered as an SBR - I originally built a 7.62x39 SBR on it. I was thinking of building a second upper of different caliber for use on this lower, since it's already registered. I already have AR-15 SBR platforms in 9mm, 300BLK and the aforementioned 7.62x39.
This new build will be shot both suppressed and unsuppressed. It should be a build for punching paper but also capable as a SHTF SBR (i.e. capable of being more than a range toy). What are your recommendations and why? |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:05:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#1]
The most practical SBR is the 12" 6.5 Grendel. It hits with 1000 ft-lb at 100 yards and will nail gongs out to almost 600+ yards still supersonic. Yet tiny-handy.
When you could get Russian steel for 25 cents a shot, it was also a cheap plinker all day long. That's harder, but PSA has announced their next introduced steel cased round is going to be 6.5 Grendel.  110? yards - 1 shot - DRT - 12" 6.5 Grendel. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:46:37 PM EDT
[#2]
458S, because why the hell not?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:51:18 PM EDT
[#3]
.458 SOCOM
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MN, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:59:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: s4s4u]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: 458S, because why the hell not? No reason not to. Bigger holes aren't affected by barrel shortage as much as small bores. How short, OP? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2024 9:29:00 PM EDT
[#5]
I was in the same boat and went with the 10.5" 277 Wlv. It's as quiet as my 8.5" 300 BO if not quieter with subsonic ammo. I did 10.5" and 16" barrels but wish I had 18" instead of 16" and 8.5" instead of 10.5
I wanted different ammo choices and velocities to be able to reach out to 300+ yards and still be able to take down an animal ethically and with enough force in both supers and subsonic. http://ar15hunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/277-Wolverine-comparison.jpg I was also looking at 6.5x40mm (.aka 264 Warrior Magnum) or 6.5x43mm but can not find enough info on them that is current. My requirement was being able to just change barrel and maybe a bolt, maybe mags. Want to keep same AR15 foot print and quick changes. I really want to be able to to reach to 800 yards with a 18 or 20" barrel and still be to run a short barrel and be quiet with SUBS. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2024 10:31:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: No reason not to. Bigger holes aren't affected by barrel shortage as much as small bores. How short, OP? I would say how short just depends.... different calibers have different optimal (or sub-optimal) barrel lengths right? I'd say nothing longer than 12.5". |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2024 1:38:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: s4s4u]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former_Navy: I would say how short just depends.... different calibers have different optimal (or sub-optimal) barrel lengths right? I'd say nothing longer than 12.5". Correct. It's all about internal volume and how much powder can "burn" before the bullet exits the muzzle. There will be variations on that theme based on the the burn rate of the powder, but for the most part bigger holes will have less loss per inch of barrel than smaller holes. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2024 5:19:29 PM EDT
[#8]
As mentioned above, 6.5 Grendel does decent from shorter barrels. Parts can be found fairly cheap. A 12.5" is also in my short list to build for my SBR lower.
7.62x39mm does well, but I see you have one. PSA is bringing out some decent ammo options that will hopefully bring down the cost of ammo a little. I'd imagine another country would fill the void the Russian left. While you may not want to take them head on, now that they are gone, I'm sure somebody sees an opening. As a side note, I put together a 18" DMR style build in 6.5 Grendel right before the Ruger SFAR came out. I wanted a lightish rifle with some bite to it. The Ruger does that for me. So I will eventually switch out my 18" barrel for a 12.5" set up. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2024 7:49:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Since your lower is SBRed, maybe not an issue for you, but I put together a 12.5" Every time I look at it, I ask myself what I was thinking. It isn't any more handy than my 13.9. In fact, when the 12.5 is next to the 13.9, I almost can't tell them apart without really looking at them.
If you want short, go 11.5 or less. Whatever barrel length you go for, the 6.5 Grendel sounds good to me. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2024 8:19:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9D1Alpha]
[#10]
I have grendel , wolverine , and 375 socom under 12.5" .
- 10" grendel - 12" grendel - 9.25" wolverine - 10" socom The Grendel is by far my favorite( also have a 14.5") ... though I'll never part with the other two . I'm tinkering with an idea for a 6.5 grendel based on 400 legend brass trimmed down and an LMT bolt . * I like the 90gr Varmageddon, 95gr vmax , and 100gr wolf in the 10" ** the 95gr vmax has a bc of .365 and sd of .195 . |
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Posted: 6/3/2024 8:32:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Magoo6541]
[#11]
8.6BLK?
ETA: Nevermind, just noticed you want to keep it on the already registered AR15 SBR, not a new one. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 5:36:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Magoo6541: 8.6BLK? ETA: Nevermind, just noticed you want to keep it on the already registered AR15 SBR, not a new one. Yeah all my NFA stuff is in a trust, from before they changed the rules. Now it's a pain having to get all the trustees approved for anything new. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2024 5:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Chipper44mag]
[#13]
10mm with 33 round Glock mags. Just buy a CMMG pistol and forget the paperwork.
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USA
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Posted: 6/5/2024 5:06:56 AM EDT
[#14]
I'll be that guy. I would do a 6.8 SPC. I have 2 Grendels and an 6ARC. I've broke 2 bolts and an extractor with the Grendels. That gets really annoying. The second bolt was a JP.
The 6.8 is a better round within 300-350 yards. It hits harder.. Even ringing steel you can tell. 300 yards is pretty far and well past where it's ethical to hunt with either round.. I've also never broken any bolts with it either . It's a little better out of a short barrel on top of it being faster. I know you'll have super snipers arguing but science doesn't lie. The bore ratio makes it faster not to mention it's loaded at a higher pressure Honestly I haven't shot either of my 6.5s for over a year. I don't have the money to keep buying bolts and extractors. When ypu actually shoot them side by side you see most info you hear about both is bullshit but one definitely has more energy at any normal hunting distance and beyond. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2024 11:10:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Another vote for a big bore because why not. Being that you already have 5.56, 300blk, 9mm, and 7.62x39 covered and you want something short....go big.
BIG BORES SHOOT BIG HOLES! |
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Posted: 6/5/2024 11:36:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Coyote-conquest: I'll be that guy. I would do a 6.8 SPC. I have 2 Grendels and an 6ARC. I've broke 2 bolts and an extractor with the Grendels. That gets really annoying. The second bolt was a JP. The 6.8 is a better round within 300-350 yards. It hits harder.. Even ringing steel you can tell. 300 yards is pretty far and well past where it's ethical to hunt with either round.. I've also never broken any bolts with it either . It's a little better out of a short barrel on top of it being faster. I know you'll have super snipers arguing but science doesn't lie. The bore ratio makes it faster not to mention it's loaded at a higher pressure Honestly I haven't shot either of my 6.5s for over a year. I don't have the money to keep buying bolts and extractors. When ypu actually shoot them side by side you see most info you hear about both is bullshit but one definitely has more energy at any normal hunting distance and beyond. Nothing wrong with 6.8 - it's a good round. At the time, 6.8 was dying while 6.5 Grendel had common 25 cent factory ammo. Combined with the longer legs - made that a very easy decision. Things have changed. The loss of 25 cent Grendel blasting ammo is quit impactful, and that advantage is now gone. From the testing and field reports I've seen, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC efficacy in the 0 - 300 yard range was essentially the same. There was even a "test" where two brothers (or whatever) went and shot 100 hogs each, and thr kill count was basically the same, with 1 more kill for the 6.8 than the Grendel (sorry, don't have a link and going out of memory, so if you want to call bullshit I got nothing; but i do buy it.) DNS uses Grendel and has a almost 1000 hog kills. And prefers the 6.5 Grendel as his round for it - it hits hard (with the right ammo) and is a little more forgiving to range estimation errors. All that said, 6.8 isn't materially any worse than Grendel out to 300 yards - and actually I agree that I prefer it's higher pressure rating. So nothing wrong with using the SBR for a 6.8 build. I just like Grendel better, and think it's a slightly better general purpose round. Bolt breakage has gotten a lot more rare. Especially if you get one of the later ones from 65Arms or such- but sure. FWIW, PSA is going to be making 6.5 Grendel ammo, before they start making 6.8. But agreed - nothing wrong with an SBR'd 6.8. I just have bias for Grendel. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2024 12:13:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Nothing wrong with 6.8 - it's a good round. At the time, 6.8 was dying while 6.5 Grendel had common 25 cent factory ammo. Combined with the longer legs - made that a very easy decision. Things have changed. The loss of 25 cent Grendel blasting ammo is quit impactful, and that advantage is now gone. From the testing and field reports I've seen, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC efficacy in the 0 - 300 yard range was essentially the same. There was even a "test" where two brothers (or whatever) went and shot 100 hogs each, and thr kill count was basically the same, with 1 more kill for the 6.8 than the Grendel (sorry, don't have a link and going out of memory, so if you want to call bullshit I got nothing; but i do buy it.) DNS uses Grendel and has a almost 1000 hog kills. And prefers the 6.5 Grendel as his round for it - it hits hard (with the right ammo) and is a little more forgiving to range estimation errors. All that said, 6.8 isn't materially any worse than Grendel out to 300 yards - and actually I agree that I prefer it's higher pressure rating. So nothing wrong with using the SBR for a 6.8 build. I just like Grendel better, and think it's a slightly better general purpose round. Bolt breakage has gotten a lot more rare. Especially if you get one of the later ones from 65Arms or such- but sure. FWIW, PSA is going to be making 6.5 Grendel ammo, before they start making 6.8. But agreed - nothing wrong with an SBR'd 6.8. I just have bias for Grendel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By 1Coyote-conquest: I'll be that guy. I would do a 6.8 SPC. I have 2 Grendels and an 6ARC. I've broke 2 bolts and an extractor with the Grendels. That gets really annoying. The second bolt was a JP. The 6.8 is a better round within 300-350 yards. It hits harder.. Even ringing steel you can tell. 300 yards is pretty far and well past where it's ethical to hunt with either round.. I've also never broken any bolts with it either . It's a little better out of a short barrel on top of it being faster. I know you'll have super snipers arguing but science doesn't lie. The bore ratio makes it faster not to mention it's loaded at a higher pressure Honestly I haven't shot either of my 6.5s for over a year. I don't have the money to keep buying bolts and extractors. When ypu actually shoot them side by side you see most info you hear about both is bullshit but one definitely has more energy at any normal hunting distance and beyond. Nothing wrong with 6.8 - it's a good round. At the time, 6.8 was dying while 6.5 Grendel had common 25 cent factory ammo. Combined with the longer legs - made that a very easy decision. Things have changed. The loss of 25 cent Grendel blasting ammo is quit impactful, and that advantage is now gone. From the testing and field reports I've seen, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC efficacy in the 0 - 300 yard range was essentially the same. There was even a "test" where two brothers (or whatever) went and shot 100 hogs each, and thr kill count was basically the same, with 1 more kill for the 6.8 than the Grendel (sorry, don't have a link and going out of memory, so if you want to call bullshit I got nothing; but i do buy it.) DNS uses Grendel and has a almost 1000 hog kills. And prefers the 6.5 Grendel as his round for it - it hits hard (with the right ammo) and is a little more forgiving to range estimation errors. All that said, 6.8 isn't materially any worse than Grendel out to 300 yards - and actually I agree that I prefer it's higher pressure rating. So nothing wrong with using the SBR for a 6.8 build. I just like Grendel better, and think it's a slightly better general purpose round. Bolt breakage has gotten a lot more rare. Especially if you get one of the later ones from 65Arms or such- but sure. FWIW, PSA is going to be making 6.5 Grendel ammo, before they start making 6.8. But agreed - nothing wrong with an SBR'd 6.8. I just have bias for Grendel. I was leary of the bolt breakage but I've had atleast 2 grendels at any given time in the past 10 years ( now have 3) and haven't had any . My younger brother did have a broke extractor but his he decided was a repurposed generic 5.56 bolt that he picked up on a sale . I think reloaders have come to know that you don't push Grendel past SAAMI . On the other hand , SPC comes alive with handloading because unfortunately Remington botched SAAMI and most commercial loads are hobbled . One other plus for the SPC is you can get an aermet bolt from LMT . Performance between the two is mostly a wash , even under 300 yds . SPC has flatter trajectory up close ... not really noteworthy though. The Grendel has better sectional density and bullet weight .... They're basically two sides to the same coin . My shortest bbl is the 277wolverine at 9.25" . In longer bbls it's 9/10ths 6.8spc ...in the short bbl it's 99/100ths . Uses std bolts , mags , and brass . Compared to the 300blk I'd call it 11/10ths . Druid Hills Armory has 50rd boxes of 90gr maker tipped-Rex for $50 right now ....175gr maker 50/$85 I think .... MDW still has barrels and other wolverine components. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2024 9:37:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#18]
I’ve got two 12”-12.5” Grendel uppers to accommodate two optics.
One was built by PSA. Shot both Wolf steel & Hornady Black decently. Around 1.5 MOA for Hornady & 2.5-4 MOA with Wolf steel case (often that ammo throws a flier). With a 1-6X SFP hits on steel out to 500 yards were easy. PSA has bolt & barrel for $200. Built a second upper with a 2.5-10X , BA barrel and with good ammo that upper can hit silhouettes more easily out past 700. With muzzle velocities around 2300-2350 fps at my 3,000’ elevation my wind calls seem similar to a .308. It makes for a good truck gun. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2024 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: I’ve got two 12”-12.5” Grendel uppers to accommodate two optics. One was built by PSA. Shot both Wolf steel & Hornady Black decently. Around 1.5 MOA for Hornady & 2.5-4 MOA with Wolf steel case (often that ammo throws a flier). With a 1-6X SFP hits on steel out to 500 yards were easy. PSA has bolt & barrel for $200. Built a second upper with a 2.5-10X , BA barrel and with good ammo that upper can hit silhouettes more easily out past 700. With muzzle velocities around 2300-2350 fps at my 3,000’ elevation my wind calls seem similar to a .308. It makes for a good truck gun. My 12" is a PSA . Good upper . Similar moa . |
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Posted: 6/5/2024 10:30:03 PM EDT
[#20]
6.5 or 6.8 make great SBRs.
Whatever you go with, it's wise to stock up on spare parts, mags and ammo. The more oddball stuff seems to dry up or climb in price a lot easier. Goodluck. |
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Posted: 6/6/2024 2:40:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former_Navy: Yeah all my NFA stuff is in a trust, from before they changed the rules. Now it's a pain having to get all the trustees approved for anything new.  |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2024 9:10:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Being that your in Ohio, I assume that’s correct, are you going to hunt deer? If so go with a straight wall cartridge. I went with the Beowulf.
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VEN
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Posted: 6/8/2024 8:43:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jd2395]
[#23]
Grendel. I have 18" for long range, 12" for medium range, and just did a 10.5 for short/medium range. I found a Satern/Liberty barrel for $125 and gave it a shot, glad I did, it's accurate as hell, even with 100gr wolf. It's a 6.5 Mk18 clone :)
eta: I have a 16" 450BM that's fun as hell, that might be fun in an SBR |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2024 1:55:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gone_rabid: Being that your in Ohio, I assume that’s correct, are you going to hunt deer? If so go with a straight wall cartridge. I went with the Beowulf. 350 Legend is another popular straight wall round in Ohio, Iowa, Illinois, and half of Michigan. |
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Posted: 6/8/2024 2:31:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: racer765]
[#25]
350 legend or 6.8 spc in that order
350 legend ammo is everywhere in deep stacks and wide variety in states that require straight wall cartridges for hunting. NOT a long distance round. 6.8 spc I was afraid was dead and gone by the time I got my rifle built, but every lgs has the Hornady Black 110gr VMAX on the shelf. I buy s&b and ppu fmj from sgammo. can't seem to find it on the shelves locally. not a high round count rifle for me, I'm collecting all brass and will start reloading for my range ammo. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2024 8:33:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9D1Alpha]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: 350 legend or 6.8 spc in that order 350 legend ammo is everywhere in deep stacks and wide variety in states that require straight wall cartridges for hunting. NOT a long distance round. 6.8 spc I was afraid was dead and gone by the time I got my rifle built, but every lgs has the Hornady Black 110gr VMAX on the shelf. I buy s&b and ppu fmj from sgammo. can't seem to find it on the shelves locally. not a high round count rifle for me, I'm collecting all brass and will start reloading for my range ammo. I think 6.8SPC will be viable for many years ahead . https://www.druidhillarmory.com/store1/6-8-Remington-SPC-II-c47204016 Wilson Combat carries loads too , but they tend to be pricier . https://wilsoncombat.com/accessories/ammunition/ammo-68mm-remington-spc.html |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2024 8:52:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9D1Alpha]
[#27]
On sale ... I'm sweating here ...
https://wilsoncombat.com/barrel-6-8-spc-ii-sbr-11-3-round-stainless-glass-bead-1-11.html ...big sale on 300hamr too . That's a good one . * I need to grab some of that sweet 375 socom ! ** my 10" 375 socom I liken to a short , light , and handy 35 rem |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 6:33:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9D1Alpha: On sale ... I'm sweating here ... https://wilsoncombat.com/barrel-6-8-spc-ii-sbr-11-3-round-stainless-glass-bead-1-11.html ...big sale on 300hamr too . That's a good one . * I need to grab some of that sweet 375 socom ! ** my 10" 375 socom I liken to a short , light , and handy 35 rem that's a good price, but when I had funds available and was ready to buy a 11" 300hamr barrel from Wilson they refused to sell to me, sales agent in chat session said I needed to run it through an ffl because it was sbr parts. fuck that. IF someday I do get a Wilson barrel it will be through a reseller who dgaf. more likely I will buy a different brand 10-11" barrel in 6.8 spc. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2024 10:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9D1Alpha]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: that's a good price, but when I had funds available and was ready to buy a 11" 300hamr barrel from Wilson they refused to sell to me, sales agent in chat session said I needed to run it through an ffl because it was sbr parts. fuck that. IF someday I do get a Wilson barrel it will be through a reseller who dgaf. more likely I will buy a different brand 10-11" barrel in 6.8 spc. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: Originally Posted By 9D1Alpha: On sale ... I'm sweating here ... https://wilsoncombat.com/barrel-6-8-spc-ii-sbr-11-3-round-stainless-glass-bead-1-11.html ...big sale on 300hamr too . That's a good one . * I need to grab some of that sweet 375 socom ! ** my 10" 375 socom I liken to a short , light , and handy 35 rem that's a good price, but when I had funds available and was ready to buy a 11" 300hamr barrel from Wilson they refused to sell to me, sales agent in chat session said I needed to run it through an ffl because it was sbr parts. fuck that. IF someday I do get a Wilson barrel it will be through a reseller who dgaf. more likely I will buy a different brand 10-11" barrel in 6.8 spc. That's weird. I don't think I'd bother with a chat session. * you're gonna cause me to load up my basket over there haha |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:16:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9D1Alpha: That's weird. I don't think I'd bother with a chat session. * you're gonna cause me to load up my basket over there haha it wasn't letting me check out. so I fired up a chat session. support dude said I had to fill in ffl info. I was very disappointed. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:16:35 PM EDT
[#31]
What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39.
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the rade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic because the heavies don't fit right in the long case and OAL. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:51:06 PM EDT
[#33]
I’ll be that guy and say if you don’t have a 5.56 SBR then you need one. If I had to do it all over again on my builds I’d go 12.5 Criterion Core; so close in velocity to a 14.6, and yet such a handy length. Really dig my 12.5 build with a Daniel Defense barrel but government profile is lame.
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:53:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By networkguru: .458 SOCOM came here to post this. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:54:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1iviper: your thinking on how to use a trust or trusts is lacking Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By Former_Navy: Yeah all my NFA stuff is in a trust, from before they changed the rules. Now it's a pain having to get all the trustees approved for anything new. Please elaborate... |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:56:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. It is a hair stronger than 7.62x39 (it is basically 7.62x41), but more importantly, it is a native AR-15 caliber that uses .308 bullets. Uses a 5.56 bolt and 300blk mags. Very popular down south (especially TX) for hog hunting. The problem is that it competes with 350L, 6.8spc, and 7.62x.39 while having ammo only coming from one place, and the ammo isn't cheap. Nothing wrong with the caliber other than it has a lot of competition, so it struggles to get a foot hold. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 12:49:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the unfortunate trade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the unfortunate trade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. 6.5 and 6.8 ammo is virtually the same price. Is AAC going to come out with some steel case stuff? If not, I assume that it will be very similarly priced. Both 6.8 and 6.5 already have ammo options that are similarly priced to most of the 77gr 5.56 loads. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 12:55:22 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: . Is AAC going to come out with some steel case stuff? If . Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the unfortunate trade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. . Is AAC going to come out with some steel case stuff? If . Yes |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 1:04:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former_Navy: Please elaborate... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former_Navy: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By Former_Navy: Yeah all my NFA stuff is in a trust, from before they changed the rules. Now it's a pain having to get all the trustees approved for anything new. Please elaborate... It’s common post Rule 41F when a trust submits a new Form 1 or Form 4 registration to amend the trust, removing all responsible persons (RP) except the grantor(AKA settler) listing grantor as sole trustee and sole responsible person needing photo & finger prints. This only works if trust doesn’t give beneficiary any implied authority prior to inheritance (some trusts got too clever there). On those trusts beneficiary also must submit photo & prints or empowering language for beneficiary needs to be removed. Some trusts can be amended with a simple notarized statement. Contingent trustees aren’t RPs. If you share your stuff constantly with trustees, just create (copy & revise) or buy another trust with only you as a RP. A lot depends on how your trust was created, and how comfortable you are with the roles. Buying a new simple trust is an alternative going forward. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 1:11:38 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Yes Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the unfortunate trade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. . Is AAC going to come out with some steel case stuff? If . Yes That's great news. I saw the thread, but somehow missed that detail. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 11:17:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: It is a hair stronger than 7.62x39 (it is basically 7.62x41), but more importantly, it is a native AR-15 caliber that uses .308 bullets. Uses a 5.56 bolt and 300blk mags. Very popular down south (especially TX) for hog hunting. The problem is that it competes with 350L, 6.8spc, and 7.62x.39 while having ammo only coming from one place, and the ammo isn't cheap. Nothing wrong with the caliber other than it has a lot of competition, so it struggles to get a foot hold. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. It is a hair stronger than 7.62x39 (it is basically 7.62x41), but more importantly, it is a native AR-15 caliber that uses .308 bullets. Uses a 5.56 bolt and 300blk mags. Very popular down south (especially TX) for hog hunting. The problem is that it competes with 350L, 6.8spc, and 7.62x.39 while having ammo only coming from one place, and the ammo isn't cheap. Nothing wrong with the caliber other than it has a lot of competition, so it struggles to get a foot hold. The sectional density doesn't get great for .308 until over 130gr . The hamr does ~200 more fps over the x39 in 150gr where SD is exceptional. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 4:10:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: that's a good price, but when I had funds available and was ready to buy a 11" 300hamr barrel from Wilson they refused to sell to me, sales agent in chat session said I needed to run it through an ffl because it was sbr parts. fuck that. IF someday I do get a Wilson barrel it will be through a reseller who dgaf. more likely I will buy a different brand 10-11" barrel in 6.8 spc. Strange, I've never had an issue simply ordering from their website. I didn't know they even had an on-line chat option. I've called or e-mailed to ask questions. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 4:19:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: It is a hair stronger than 7.62x39 (it is basically 7.62x41), but more importantly, it is a native AR-15 caliber that uses .308 bullets. Uses a 5.56 bolt and 300blk mags. Very popular down south (especially TX) for hog hunting. The problem is that it competes with 350L, 6.8spc, and 7.62x.39 while having ammo only coming from one place, and the ammo isn't cheap. Nothing wrong with the caliber other than it has a lot of competition, so it struggles to get a foot hold. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. It is a hair stronger than 7.62x39 (it is basically 7.62x41), but more importantly, it is a native AR-15 caliber that uses .308 bullets. Uses a 5.56 bolt and 300blk mags. Very popular down south (especially TX) for hog hunting. The problem is that it competes with 350L, 6.8spc, and 7.62x.39 while having ammo only coming from one place, and the ammo isn't cheap. Nothing wrong with the caliber other than it has a lot of competition, so it struggles to get a foot hold. I started using the 300 Ham'r 5+ years ago, and still think it is a good choice. Lately however, I've become more interested in 6.8 SPC and 30 HRT. They are the SBRs I have been shooting the most lately. The 30 HRT is a 30 cal that uses the 6.8 SPC case. The only disadvantage to it is you have to hand load, and spend the time to convert the brass. It's too bad nobody took it mainstream. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 5:01:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: It’s common post Rule 41F when a trust submits a new Form 1 or Form 4 registration to amend the trust, removing all responsible persons (RP) except the grantor(AKA settler) listing grantor as sole trustee and sole responsible person needing photo & finger prints. This only works if trust doesn’t give beneficiary any implied authority prior to inheritance (some trusts got too clever there). On those trusts beneficiary also must submit photo & prints or empowering language for beneficiary needs to be removed. Some trusts can be amended with a simple notarized statement. Contingent trustees aren’t RPs. If you share your stuff constantly with trustees, just create (copy & revise) or buy another trust with only you as a RP. A lot depends on how your trust was created, and how comfortable you are with the roles. Buying a new simple trust is an alternative going forward. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Originally Posted By Former_Navy: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By Former_Navy: Yeah all my NFA stuff is in a trust, from before they changed the rules. Now it's a pain having to get all the trustees approved for anything new. Please elaborate... It’s common post Rule 41F when a trust submits a new Form 1 or Form 4 registration to amend the trust, removing all responsible persons (RP) except the grantor(AKA settler) listing grantor as sole trustee and sole responsible person needing photo & finger prints. This only works if trust doesn’t give beneficiary any implied authority prior to inheritance (some trusts got too clever there). On those trusts beneficiary also must submit photo & prints or empowering language for beneficiary needs to be removed. Some trusts can be amended with a simple notarized statement. Contingent trustees aren’t RPs. If you share your stuff constantly with trustees, just create (copy & revise) or buy another trust with only you as a RP. A lot depends on how your trust was created, and how comfortable you are with the roles. Buying a new simple trust is an alternative going forward. Thank you for the explanation. I have considered doing this on mine, but I wasn't sure if I was being too "cute" by going back and forth. I don't personally believe that successor trustees should need to be fingerprinted/photo'd as they aren't trustees until I die, the way I understand it. But a lot of the online places seem to disagree, so removal and re-add would be the way to go. Again, wasn't sure if I was being too cute by doing that, thank you for the detail. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 6:28:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwlaxton: I started using the 300 Ham'r 5+ years ago, and still think it is a good choice. Lately however, I've become more interested in 6.8 SPC and 30 HRT. They are the SBRs I have been shooting the most lately. The 30 HRT is a 30 cal that uses the 6.8 SPC case. The only disadvantage to it is you have to hand load, and spend the time to convert the brass. It's too bad nobody took it mainstream. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwlaxton: Originally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. It is a hair stronger than 7.62x39 (it is basically 7.62x41), but more importantly, it is a native AR-15 caliber that uses .308 bullets. Uses a 5.56 bolt and 300blk mags. Very popular down south (especially TX) for hog hunting. The problem is that it competes with 350L, 6.8spc, and 7.62x.39 while having ammo only coming from one place, and the ammo isn't cheap. Nothing wrong with the caliber other than it has a lot of competition, so it struggles to get a foot hold. I started using the 300 Ham'r 5+ years ago, and still think it is a good choice. Lately however, I've become more interested in 6.8 SPC and 30 HRT. They are the SBRs I have been shooting the most lately. The 30 HRT is a 30 cal that uses the 6.8 SPC case. The only disadvantage to it is you have to hand load, and spend the time to convert the brass. It's too bad nobody took it mainstream. 30HRT would've been an excellent commercial offering . Still would be . |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 5:42:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former_Navy: Thank you for the explanation. I have considered doing this on mine, but I wasn't sure if I was being too "cute" by going back and forth. I don't personally believe that successor trustees should need to be fingerprinted/photo'd as they aren't trustees until I die, the way I understand it. But a lot of the online places seem to disagree, so removal and re-add would be the way to go. Again, wasn't sure if I was being too cute by doing that, thank you for the detail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former_Navy: Originally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Originally Posted By Former_Navy: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By Former_Navy: Yeah all my NFA stuff is in a trust, from before they changed the rules. Now it's a pain having to get all the trustees approved for anything new. Please elaborate... It's common post Rule 41F when a trust submits a new Form 1 or Form 4 registration to amend the trust, removing all responsible persons (RP) except the grantor(AKA settler) listing grantor as sole trustee and sole responsible person needing photo & finger prints. This only works if trust doesn't give beneficiary any implied authority prior to inheritance (some trusts got too clever there). On those trusts beneficiary also must submit photo & prints or empowering language for beneficiary needs to be removed. Some trusts can be amended with a simple notarized statement. Contingent trustees aren't RPs. If you share your stuff constantly with trustees, just create (copy & revise) or buy another trust with only you as a RP. A lot depends on how your trust was created, and how comfortable you are with the roles. Buying a new simple trust is an alternative going forward. Thank you for the explanation. I have considered doing this on mine, but I wasn't sure if I was being too "cute" by going back and forth. I don't personally believe that successor trustees should need to be fingerprinted/photo'd as they aren't trustees until I die, the way I understand it. But a lot of the online places seem to disagree, so removal and re-add would be the way to go. Again, wasn't sure if I was being too cute by doing that, thank you for the detail. sorry just saw this KalmanPhilter laid it out pretty good there are multiple ways to stay compliant without alot of hassle , and alot of approval times are crazy fast compared to years ago |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2024 1:42:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lilMAC25]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the rade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic because the heavies don't fit right in the long case and OAL. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the rade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic because the heavies don't fit right in the long case and OAL. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. That has nothing to do with the reasoning behind the 300 HAMR design. It was designed to be a hotter 300 BLK pushing heavier projectiles faster than 300BLK can. The fact that the longer case won’t fit into a 5.56 chamber is a side effect, nothing more. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2024 4:42:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: That has nothing to do with the reasoning behind the 300 HAMR design. It was designed to be a hotter 300 BLK pushing heavier projectiles faster than 300BLK can. The fact that the longer case won’t fit into a 5.56 chamber is a side effect, nothing more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By fgshoot: What is the point of the 300 Hamr? It looks weaker than 7.62x39. I believe it was intended to be a supersonic .30 cal round that fits AR platform including bolt and mags; but wont' Kaboom like .300 BO. the rade-off is to do that, it has have a longer case that will hit the shoulder of a 5.56 chamber, if mischamberd, and be truely impossible to lock and fire (unlike .300kaBOoom). So it's kind of a funny round. It's much higher pressure than 7.62x39, so performance is close, even though smaller - but it's an exotic .30 cal round that's pretty weak by supersonic .30 cal standards; that doesn't readily shoot subsonic because the heavies don't fit right in the long case and OAL. To me it's a fairly pointless round and I'd just go 6.5 Grendel or 6.8, if you want supersonic ass heavier than a 5.56. JMHO. For a while there, the difference between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was HUGE, when you could get Wolf steel for cheap; making Grendel the obvious overall choice. Then, after Russia ammo ban, they both got pretty close - with 6.5 Grendel still having some performance advantages, but so too does 6.8. Now that AAC is starting to make very cost-effective attractive 6.5 Grendel ammo (and not 6.8); Grendel is getting really attractive again. That has nothing to do with the reasoning behind the 300 HAMR design. It was designed to be a hotter 300 BLK pushing heavier projectiles faster than 300BLK can. The fact that the longer case won’t fit into a 5.56 chamber is a side effect, nothing more. I think the sweet spot where the Cfe blk powder comes alive for the hamr is the 135-150gr . Puts it more of an equal to the 30-30 as opposed to being trailed by the x39 ....which is in turn trailed by the 300bo . https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammunition/ammo-brief-why-the-300-hamr-nails-it-for-hunting/amp |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:01:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drewthebrave]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhon: I’ll be that guy and say if you don’t have a 5.56 SBR then you need one. If I had to do it all over again on my builds I’d go 12.5 Criterion Core; so close in velocity to a 14.6, and yet such a handy length. Really dig my 12.5 build with a Daniel Defense barrel but government profile is lame. Couldn't agree more. I love my Grendels (18" & 12") but a 10-12" 5.56 is still plenty capable with the right ammo (70gr TSX, 77gr SMK, 62gr Gold Dot, etc) and uses the mags & ammo you already have stockpiled. Get a 5.56 upper in your desired length (I prefer 11.5") and run it hard. Parts are plentiful, and Flannel Daddy just said 5.56 is better than .300 BLK anyway. If you really want a shorty with more reach, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and 6mm ARC are close enough that you could go with any of them and be happy. 6ARC is more aerodynamic for target shooting, 6.8SPC hits a little harder at close range, and 6.5G splits the difference nicely. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:37:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewthebrave: Couldn't agree more. I love my Grendels (18" & 12") but a 10-12" 5.56 is still plenty capable with the right ammo (70gr TSX, 77gr SMK, etc) and uses the mags & ammo you already have stockpiled. Get a 5.56 upper in your desired length (I prefer 11.5") and run it hard. Parts are plentiful, and Flannel Daddy just said 5.56 is better than .300 BLK anyway. If you really want a shorty with more reach, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and 6mm ARC are close enough that you could go with any of them and be happy. 6ARC is more aerodynamic for target shooting, 6.8SPC hits a little harder at close range, and 6.5G splits the difference nicely. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewthebrave: Originally Posted By jhon: I’ll be that guy and say if you don’t have a 5.56 SBR then you need one. If I had to do it all over again on my builds I’d go 12.5 Criterion Core; so close in velocity to a 14.6, and yet such a handy length. Really dig my 12.5 build with a Daniel Defense barrel but government profile is lame. Couldn't agree more. I love my Grendels (18" & 12") but a 10-12" 5.56 is still plenty capable with the right ammo (70gr TSX, 77gr SMK, etc) and uses the mags & ammo you already have stockpiled. Get a 5.56 upper in your desired length (I prefer 11.5") and run it hard. Parts are plentiful, and Flannel Daddy just said 5.56 is better than .300 BLK anyway. If you really want a shorty with more reach, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and 6mm ARC are close enough that you could go with any of them and be happy. 6ARC is more aerodynamic for target shooting, 6.8SPC hits a little harder at close range, and 6.5G splits the difference nicely. I have a 10", 12" , and 14.5" grendel . I also have a 9.25" 277wolverine. I've got 90tnt , 90golddot, 95ttsx , 100accubond . .. just saw Hawk Bullets 130gr RN FB ...that would be nifty . |
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