AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/11/2026 12:18:21 PM EDT
|
So I am looking at getting a piston gun and was looking at both the BRN180 and Jakl. But then I looked at just piston uppers like the PWS MK1, Caracal 816 or the BRN4. While I really wanted to go with a 180 the supply of uppers concerns me along with reported issues with the Gen3 uppers and poor customer service. I really wanted something in the 11.5 to 14.5 in range but of course the only way to get it is a stupid pin and weld. It's like the took a page out of the PSA play book there. How are guys with the Gen3 5.56 uppers fairing? I know PWS makes the BRN stuff but is there a reason that supply is lacking? Jakl seems OK, they are responsive to issues that do arise and i will have to piece together the setup I want. But once again for the most part anything in the 14.5 in range is pin and weld. Trying to chase down the one sku that is not pin and weld is like trying to catch a greased pig. So then Piston uppers piqued my interest. I have concern with Caracal with parts availability if something happens and not much info on them is out there. BRN4 once again suffers from availability and possible QA issues? And to chrome line or not to chrome line if you can even get it in stock. And not too sold on the self regulating gas block. Finally the PWS Mk1 seems to be supported very good and are available. Don't see many minuses with them but still not a BRN180 or Jakl that can fold.  So if you were starting as the beginning what would you go with? And no I don't want anything HK so don't even go there. |
Be a hard-ass. Every day should be like his first day in prison, and he's all alone in the yard without a shiv.
|
Have you considered the Wolf T91 upper? https://atlanticfirearms.com/wolf-t91-ar15-upper-14-5-sbr https://aimsurplus.com/products/wolf-a1-223-5-56-gas-piston-upper-receiver-14-5-in |
|
Originally Posted By Dex223: Have you considered the Wolf T91 upper? https://atlanticfirearms.com/wolf-t91-ar15-upper-14-5-sbr https://aimsurplus.com/products/wolf-a1-223-5-56-gas-piston-upper-receiver-14-5-in No mlok, so no. |
Be a hard-ass. Every day should be like his first day in prison, and he's all alone in the yard without a shiv.
|
I bought Caracal 816 A2 uppers in both 11.5” and 14.5” and they’ve been great. They share parts compatibility with the SIG 516 for the piston/proprietary parts, except for the gas block and upper receiver (height), and of course normal AR parts for everything else. Technically I think the gas block has the same piston/bore height as the 516, but on the 816 it’s rounded on top since their proprietary free float handguard is designed to go over the gas block (unlike the 516 pre-G3) and that’s why the upper rail of the 816 sits higher also. The only thing I don’t like is the barrel not being chrome lined. However it seems to me a standard chrome lined AR barrel can be made to work, once my current barrel dies and I transplant its gas block over to a new barrel. These appear to have a standard 0.750” barrel journal at the gas block. The barrel extension has a stud added internally (to support the extractor, for OTB capability) but I’ve read it’s otherwise a standard AR barrel extension. I went ahead and added a ported buffer tube to gain the full OTB capability I hope to never need. I’ve tried it suppressed (on the suppressor setting) and it’s very pleasant to fire that way. Their uppers are also full-auto capable for a MG lower (or FRT). If you’re LE they’ll give you a heck of a discount. |
|
Originally Posted By KitBuilder: I bought Caracal 816 A2 uppers in both 11.5” and 14.5” and they’ve been great. They share parts compatibility with the SIG 516 for the piston/proprietary parts, except for the gas block and upper receiver (height), and of course normal AR parts for everything else. Technically I think the gas block has the same piston/bore height as the 516, but on the 816 it’s rounded on top since their proprietary free float handguard is designed to go over the gas block (unlike the 516) and that’s why the upper rail sits higher also. The only thing I don’t like is the barrel not being chrome lined. However it seems to me a standard chrome lined AR barrel can be made to work, once my current barrel dies and I transplant its gas block over to a new barrel. These appear to have a standard 0.750” barrel journal at the gas block. The barrel extension has a stud added internally (to support the extractor, for OTB capability) but I’ve read it’s otherwise a standard AR barrel extension. I went ahead and added a ported buffer tube to gain the full OTB capability I hope to never need. I’ve tried it suppressed (on the suppressor setting) and it’s very pleasant to fire that way. Their uppers are also full-auto capable for a MG lower (or FRT). If you’re LE they’ll give you a heck of a discount. Can you get parts for a 516? I get the discount from Caracal but the street price of a PWS upper and a Caracal is pretty much a wash with shipping. Like less than a $100. |
Be a hard-ass. Every day should be like his first day in prison, and he's all alone in the yard without a shiv.
|
Originally Posted By 64tinc: LWRC for the win. Good solid components. Excellent company. Some on EE Good priced. I was going to get one but other things came up. I have an older model and it shoots like a 22 almost. Very accurate. I have an old M6A2 and find it to be very front heavy, unlike the Caracal. It also has worn out piston springs and I need to get some new ones. LWRC is the only source for those I think. |
|
Originally Posted By ridinshotgun:Can you get parts for a 516? SIG's old part # for the op-rod assembly (including spring) was 1700936-R and they wouldn't sell the spring separately back then. Caracal told me they'll sell parts. I bought 2 spare buffers from them when I ordered my uppers, but later learned my plain old H or H2 buffers work fine. I should've asked Caracal about the op-rod/springs, but I got a whole 10.5" SIG 516 SBR off of GunBroker for $550 and its spring is still good. I haven't actually heard of anyone wearing out a 516 op rod spring, but I'm sure that's a thing. Also I know you can buy a barrel nut wrench for the 516/816 but I don't think anyone sells one for the PWS. |
|
No consideration for the Sig MCX? That's a full ecosystem of different uppers you can get into that are ar18-style and bufferless I have several gen2 brn180s in 5.56 & 300blk and was an early adopter. Not particularly interested in the gen3. The gen2/2.5 can be found used relatively cheap and they're light, slim, and nice suppressor hosts... but PWS was bought out or sold a few years ago and neither they or Brownells have any more parts for them    I have a couple jakls too and I like them, but they don't drop right onto a milspec AR lower, are noticeably heavier than the brn180, and the original F5 stock is flimsy Great suppressor hosts as though, even more tunable gas than the brn180 |
|
Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: No consideration for the Sig MCX? That's a full ecosystem of different uppers you can get into that are ar18-style and bufferless I have several gen2 brn180s in 5.56 & 300blk and was an early adopter. Not particularly interested in the gen3. The gen2/2.5 can be found used relatively cheap and they're light, slim, and nice suppressor hosts... but PWS was bought out or sold a few years ago and neither they or Brownells have any more parts for them https://distortion.io/i/IMG_2160.jpg https://distortion.io/i/IMG_2305.jpg I have a couple jakls too and I like them, but they are noticeably heavier than the brn180 and the original F5 stock is flimsy Great suppressor hosts as well, even more tunable gas than the brn180 I looked at the MCX but even with a discount I get from SIG they are double the cost of anything else. They think awfully high of themselves on those and that is coming from a confessed SIG guy. I mean the upper alone is only less than $300 than a full rifle. I even eyed the new 516 G3 model but once again more than I want to shell out. Yeah some of the changes to the GEN 3 brn180 are kind of meh. With the JAKLs you have what length are you running? The weight is why I never got on the wagon for a 16in rifle because everyone and their brother said they were pigs in weight. But it seems like the shorter ones balance better and have better reviews. |
Be a hard-ass. Every day should be like his first day in prison, and he's all alone in the yard without a shiv.
|
Originally Posted By ridinshotgun: I looked at the MCX but even with a discount I get from SIG they are double the cost of anything else. They think awfully high of themselves on those and that is coming from a confessed SIG guy. I mean the upper alone is less than $300 than a full rifle. Yeah some of the changes to the GEN 3 brn180 are kind of meh. With the JAKLs you have what length are you running? The weight is why I never got on the wagon for a 16in rifle because everyone and their brother said they were pigs in weight. But it seems like the shorter ones balance better and have better reviews. I get you on Sig and the MCX The 3rd gen / LT series are pretty nice, and parts availability has gotten better (plus secondhand market is good) As for the JAKL, I've got 14.5" 5.56 & 8" 300blk uppers Even the 8" is heavy, especially w/ a Putnik  , but if you put a skeleton stock on there and a small optic like an Acro-C or similar it'd make nice small setup  |
AR Sponsor