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Page AR-15 » AR Variants
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 7/13/2024 2:16:36 PM EDT
I have a 16" AR10 that I've had an issue with.

Purchased the rifle from a small mom&pop shop that has their own roll mark.  I have a couple of their guns which are made to order, not rocket science and decent parts.

This AR10 consists of the following components:

16" Wilson Combat Ranger profile .308win barrel.  416 stainless, 1:11 twist, intermediate gas.

Superlative arms adjustable gas block

Unsure what BCG it is, it's black and my guess just a regular dpms pattern bcg.

Griffin Armament maritime buffer tube.

AR15 H1 buffer and flat spring

Griffin Snatch charging handle and Griffin Palidin can.

When I first got the gun, it would not function and was shooting 4" groups at best. Sent it back.  A new barrel nut was put in, everything retorqued.  Initially it had the Griffin SOB buffer and matching spring but the H1 and AR15 flat spring seems to have solved function issues.

He claims the twist is too slow to stabilize heavy bullets and that it only shoots 150-155grn ammo MOA. Also said unsuppressed it ejects properly.

Prior to doing any range work, is there anything that needs to be checked?  I've not had a WC barrel that didn't shoot MOA with good ammo and that twist and barrel length should be good for 168s.  Probably going to check headspace and gas system.  Likely buying a NiB WC BCG too.

Any thoughts?  I don't want to burn a bunch of ammo needlessly
Link Posted: 7/13/2024 2:35:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I guess this is an apples to oranges comparison, but my .308 bolt gun has 1/12” twist and it shoots 175 grain bullets best out of everything I’ve shot. Granted it’s a 26” barrel, but still I can’t see the 1/11” twist as the problem.
Link Posted: 7/13/2024 2:44:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I guess this is an apples to oranges comparison, but my .308 bolt gun has 1/12” twist and it shoots 175 grain bullets best out of everything I’ve shot. Granted it’s a 26” barrel, but still I can’t see the 1/11” twist as the problem.
View Quote


I seriously doubt the twist is the problem, I'm betting it's the BCG and shooter.
Link Posted: 7/13/2024 5:03:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I guess this is an apples to oranges comparison, but my .308 bolt gun has 1/12” twist and it shoots 175 grain bullets best out of everything I’ve shot. Granted it’s a 26” barrel, but still I can’t see the 1/11” twist as the problem.
View Quote


From the Chrono:

16" LMT ~2400 fps with 175SMK
25" 700  ~2750 fps with 175SMK

350+ fps will make a difference when it comes to stabilizing a bullet.
Link Posted: 7/13/2024 5:16:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


From the Chrono:

16" LMT ~2400 fps with 175SMK
25" 700  ~2750 fps with 175SMK

350+ fps will make a difference when it comes to stabilizing a bullet.
View Quote


I've had other 308 AR10 rifles with this twist and their FPS is similar to your numbers posted.

My question for the group is about Wilson Combat barrels. Has anyone else had accuracy issues with one using heavier pills?  

Or has anyone had accuracy issues that turned out to be a headspace issue?
Link Posted: 7/13/2024 6:26:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I've had other 308 AR10 rifles with this twist and their FPS is similar to your numbers posted.

My question for the group is about Wilson Combat barrels. Has anyone else had accuracy issues with one using heavier pills?  

Or has anyone had accuracy issues that turned out to be a headspace issue?
View Quote


Have you shot the barrel naked, without any muzzle device attached?  Be sure to take a good look at the crown, as that can make a difference in accuracy.
Link Posted: 7/13/2024 6:40:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Have you shot the barrel naked, without any muzzle device attached?  Be sure to take a good look at the crown, as that can make a difference in accuracy.
View Quote


Good point, I have not done that. It was sent back to WC and they said it met their QC, but I will inspect the crown before shooting it this week.
Link Posted: 7/14/2024 3:18:52 AM EDT
[#7]
1:11 is good for up to 1.35" long ~190gr lead core bullets.
Link Posted: 7/16/2024 1:53:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Is the end of the gas tube centered in the cam pin cutout of the upper receiver?
Link Posted: 7/16/2024 9:09:43 AM EDT
[#9]
There is nothing wrong with the twist rate.  For .308 Win. you will normally see twist rates from 1-10 to 1-12.
I have eight rifles with barrels from Wilson Combat and no complaints about any of them.  A few took 50 to 150 rounds to get the best accuracy out of them, but all of them will shoot MOA.

I noticed that you did not say what ammo you were shooting.  That is always the first place I look to solve a problem.
Link Posted: 7/16/2024 11:45:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Took it to the range and got it sorted out.

Mounted a Leupold MK6 3-18X44 with Tremor 2 in a Reptilia mount.

I started with a box of Gorilla 175grn SMK for zeroing.  First 2 rounds caused a stove pipe and double feed.  The gun was so clearly overgassed.

Turned the gas off and fired a round.  No movement of the bolt, so gas block was working. Opened it up 5 clicks and fired a round.  It did not fully cycle the bolt. Opened the gas 3 more clicks and it was money. Brass made a nice little pile and ejected in the optimum angle.

At the same time I was making gas block adjustments I was watching poi.  Shot a 1/4" 5 shot group with the Gorilla. Finished the zero and shot groups.

Today was over 100 degrees with lots of humidity. I noticed the gun was hot and my time was limited.  

It was MOA with:

Hornady Precision Hunter 178grn

Speer Gold Dot 150grn

Federal GMM 175grn

Hornady Black 155grn

1.5 MOA with Hornday Black 168grn

The gun really liked the 150grn Speer GD, I'm buying some 168 Speer GD to see if it likes it too.

Saw groups open up significantly with heat as the day went on. Also, when I let it cool, the first round was consistently 1.5" high and 1" left, very consistent.

The gun is fun to shoot. The recoil impulse is manageable. And with it zero was a lot of fun smashing steel.  

Thank you for the help.  I suspected the gas was the issue and who I got it from was not using quality test ammo.

Original functional issues were caused by multiple factors including the Griffin buffer and buffer spring.  The flat wire and H buffer resulted in zero issues once the gas was tuned.
Link Posted: 7/18/2024 4:13:25 PM EDT
[#11]
I have the same barrel on a .308 I built. It is sub MOA. ARs in .308 are not as inherently accurate as a 5.56 gun. There are a lot of factors. I would take the rail off, take the barrel nut off and install it correctly.
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 9:12:12 PM EDT
[#12]
I also have a 16" WC barrel in a mostly Wilson build. More accurate than my LMT, DD, or KAC, just as accurate as my JP.

Wilson Combat uses a proprietary gas length for this barrel, so make sure you've got the correct tube. I haven't found barrel nut torque matters too much.
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