I received my order from Ar500 Armor today after exactly 1 month.
I ordered the Banshee pc set with plates and ordered the extra side plates in 6x8 all coated.
Everything is great but ive noticed a discrepancy in the actual weight vs advertised weight of the plates.
The10x12plates come in at 9lb 11.8oz and 9lb 10.6oz. And the side places are 4lb .4oz and 4lb .3oz.

They're advertised as 7.5lb plates with 3/4lb build up. And 2.5lb side plates with probably a 1/4lb build up.
Where did the extra 5.5lbs come from?


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Where on the banshee bundles is the plate weight listed?

These are the plates.
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-curved-trauma-plate-advanced-shooters-cut-10x12.html#.UypUaZEpAuo
http://www.ar500armor.com/a500-armor-side-trauma-plate-6-x-8.html

So what did ar500 say on the phone today when you called them and asked about the weight difference?

I wasn't sure if I was the only one that also noticed the weight difference.  I purchased a set about 5 months ago and weighed myself with my plate carrier concluding 20 extra pounds.  I'd say they are around 9 pounds and a few ounces as well.  I don't have side plates, just the chest and back which make no difference.  I must say they are on the heavy side.  I couldn't tell you where the extra weight come from, but maybe I misunderstood it as the 7.5 pound weight was measured with the steel without the coating.  I could see how the coating can be heavy enough to weigh what it is now.

Wow.  They really rounded down on their webpage.    

I don't see how that can be two pounds of polyurea on that plate.  We coat our plates pretty good and it goes from a quarter to half pound.
CHRIS

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice the weight difference. But the weight does seem to be stated on their website as 7.5lbs with the base layer of coating added.

Did you measure the thickness of the plates?  Maybe more coating than advertised that adds the weight?

I just did with a shitty ruler and came out with 9/16-5/8' thickness. Ararmor said they should be about 3/4" with the added coating.
I can only assume that the 7.5lb plate thickness is the actual plate metal before any coating.
Im going to give them  call when they wake up there.

Still lighter than mine. I have some from The Target man and they are a little over 11 pounds each. (10x12)

My guess would be the weights listed are for the steel plates before being coated but im not sure if even that would account for a 5 lb difference, they probably rounded down a bit as well. Steel rifle plates are unfortunately known for being extremely heavy so anything they can do to downplay the weight will obviosuly help them sell plates, the average Joe probably never weighs them either.

Just one more reason to go with ceramic plates

My guess would be that the weights given are total bullshit.

I have never believed the weights of 7.5 pounds. The area of a 10"x12" plate in that cut is going to be very close to 109.5 square inches. At 0.25" thickness, the steel by itself would weigh 7.91 pounds. With a thick coating of Line-X, it's going to weigh a lot more.

So even if they're rounding down slightly and only considering the weight of the steel, that's still misrepresenting the final product weight (i.e., bullshit). If they're going to do that, why not advertise that they only weigh 2 pounds until you add the steel?

Lugging around 22 pounds of steel is just stupid. Misrepresenting a life protection device is just asking for a class action lawsuit.

Grow Stronger

its steel... not a ceramic / composite material

if it is not to your expectations, ship it back as not as advertised

steel was the common plate material for a long time, they are an inexpensive and extremely durable option.

To answer the OP, my plate carrier w/AR500 loaded is about 26lbs.  I figure there is extra weight in the plates/lining.

I am IRONMAN!!!  being that the OP was *sold* on one bill of goods and the recieved product was not as advertised

he should send it back

Steel was the common plate material for a long time? Not in the context of personal armor for defeating modern rifle round unless you consider the barely used experimental armor systems from WWI-Korea to be common or in use for a long time. Ceramic rifle protection plates rolled out in the late 60's and the industry has hardly looked at steel for personal body armor since then.

Heavy

I think the OP was trying to skimp out on actual body armor, and he wanted to try and trust his ass with steel plates covered in truck bed liner.

OP, keep the plates. Think of them as a training tool. If anything use them for range beataround plates so when you eventually save up enough for ceramics you'll be set.

Steel will stop bullets.  Nothing wrong with it.  Heavier, yes, but can withstand multiple hits better and is not as fragile as level iv.  Cost effective too.  Just have weigh all your options and choose what is best for you.

I think steel plates definitely go against the gear queer mentality.... your stupid if you have them, you might as well throw them in the trash etc etc.  You didn't spend as much as me, you're an idiot.  I hope I don't ever have to move far and fast in plates... I mostly think of them as a "fixed defensive" or vehicular asset.  It's all cost vs benefit... steel plates save me a couple of hundred towards new NODs, ammo, replacing the Celox in all my kits with combat gauze, another spare rifle and more hidden precious metal.  Once I get to happy places with all that I will revisit my plates.

I know one thing, I'm gonna be in great shape from carrying them around and the will be at my son's house 40 years from now still good whether they get used or not..  

Really? When? And for whom?

Knights.  

lmao, nice

Funny how steel armor suits quickly disappeared when firearms hit the scene. And they haven't had much of a stay in the modern age, either.  

OP: Get some ceramic plates and use the steel for cardio/resistance training. Chalk it up as a lesson learned.

russian body armor

And I know a person who wear metal plates in Astan simply because they can be low profile.

You're trying really hard to be a smart ass, but just turn out to be a dumb ass.

And I'm on a break between doing sets of burpees in my armor.  See, it doesn't matter what gear you have nearly as much as how hard you train.

 

Modern day steel like AR500 is hundreds of times better than what was produced during the time of knights. The only reason OUR military doesn't use it is because of weight and a lack of care for cost.

exactly. I may not have ceramic plates, but I do have nice rifles and nightvision.

A couple vests and a "guy I know" does not equal to "common".  

And I don't have to try hard to be a smart ass, it's really easy actually.

I calculated the difference in cost between steel plates and good level IV ceramics and determined that I could almost afford the night vision equipment below:

Buy an extra set of Level IV plates as they will fail long before AR500 after multiple hits.  Better yet, buy some AR500 plates to use when the Level IV's fail.

Is that you in the picture?  Because you seem to understand money about as well as my 9 year old son.  You see, it adds up... the difference between steel and ceramic plates = the difference between high def and standard def NODs = a day of instruction = almost 1K round of 9mm to train with = 2-3 good BOKs = Saloman boots = a million other things that could save your life.

You didn't think at all before you posted but no, you just want to post tarded pictures that make no contribution, in a tech forum no-less.

If someone wants some armor for shtf or training use or whatever, but wants to go bare budget.....steel is your go to armor. Willing to spend a couple hundred more? Ceramic.

The point of the night-vision comment was was that some things have more priority than others. Armor is cool and all....but I don't wear it more than once or twice a month. That's usually just in the house. My night-vision? I put my helmet on and use it at least a few times a week for hiking, star-gazing, and on a rare occasion: shooting.

It's hilarious because Layer60 was actually in the personal body armor industry and is one of most knowledgeable people about armor on this forum. You, on the other hand, are some steel plate buying goober who thinks your decision actually makes sense despite every professional voice on the opinion telling you otherwise. You're clearly soooo much smarter than every one else, right?

And here is some math for you, skipper:

2 formed and coated AR500 10x12 plates weighing about 11 pounds from TTM: $190+ shipping
2 single curve ceramic hybrid level IV stand alone 10x12 plates weighing 7.2 pounds directly from HighCom = $223.50 + shipping (4SAS-7, coupon code "FIREARMS" for 25% off).

I guess NVG upgrades, good boots, a day of instruction, and 1k rounds of 9mm all cost about $33.50 in your AO. I would ask where you live so I can come take advantage of these great deals, but I already know where you live - a fucking fantasy land.

To further drive home the fact that you are so unambiguously wrong here, those children's NVGs cost $130

Man, there are some folks with heavy flow days in this thread.

you are forgetting taxes.....

Either way you are missing the point. No one is arguing that steel is the best shit there is for body armor. What we are arguing is that for someone who wants armor but wants to spend the least amount possible, it is a viable option. You make it sound like people who buy steel are stuck with it forever....nothing says that I can't sell it or keep it and then buy ceramic later on down that road. But to tell the truth....I hardly use it as is so who bother upgrading?

Curahee, you should know better.

Posting the kid's night vision was mostly meant to be funny.

If people look at all the facts and think steel is the right choice for them, that's fine. But what bothers me is that we're not actually comparing facts when pro-steel arguments are made. There are three arguments typically used in persuading people to be walking gong targets:

1. Steel is a lot cheaper.
2. Steel is just a little bit heavier.
3. Steel is less fragile and can take a bajillion shots.

So let's address those with real facts and then, if someone feels that it's a good choice to go with steel, they can at least make an informed decision and I can respect that.

1. Steel is not really cheaper, to any meaningful degree, than good quality level IV ceramics. It is not hundreds of dollars more, to be sure.

2. Steel does not weigh "just a little" more than ceramics. It weighs a lot more. No matter what people advertise their product weight at, you can't change physics.

3a. Steel is less fragile than ceramics, but level IV ceramics are typically around 0.4" - 0.5" thick. In most cases, they are bonded with additional materials. You can throw them on the ground all day from chest height and they won't break, unless they are hitting sharp, hard objects. They are not mom's tea cups. If they were that fragile, they would be completely useless in the military and every branch of the military uses ceramic-based armor.

3b. Steel has been shown to yield when 7.62NATO (the standard for level III) strikes the same area twice. Will it yield every time? No. Will you be lucky enough to have 87 hits strike directly on your armor plate, while not getting killed or having slivers of bullets in your arteries, over months of firefights on your journey to becoming an apocalyptic warlord? I'm guessing the answer is "no". Also, ceramic is not automatically useless even if it's fractured.

So there are the facts. This is not about "gear queers" or how much money someone spends - at least not for me. It's about helping people make an informed decision for a product that may be needed to save their life. Posting recommendations about armor should be taken very seriously.

I paid $169-ish for my steel plate set (F/R/S/S) SHIPPED.

2x Guardian 4SAS-7 - 10" x 12" Single Curve Shooters Cut = $298
2x Guardian 4SAS-7 - 6" x 6" Single Curve                             = $218

Total= $516 + shipping.


Lets compare apples to oranges. I'd love to get a set and maybe I'll grab some when I am more able to throw some cash at the situation, but 3x the price is a steep difference.

You must really have a problem with reading comprehension if you missed the fact that HighCom's products are 25% off listed retail. There are at least two different 25% codes floating around, one of which is in my post which you quoted.

And which set of plates did you buy for $170? Coated or uncoated? Flat or formed in some way? Reputable manufacturer or eBay dice roll?

I had to spend some of the money I saved on steel plates so that I could get my ignore button back.

No doubt, you clearly don't deal well with facts or reality and would rather insulate yourself in an echo chamber.

Forum vendor coated.

Even at 25% off you are still twice the price after shipping.

Who did you ignore?

I'm going to go back to GD and hang out, where it is more clearly defined what and how to like something....

Forget the lying about the weight thing for a minute...(Not me!)



As long as that target/"armor" supplier can give some lot testing data for that specific batch of steel that you guys bought as body armor, you should be good.

They sent that, right?  Their insurance will cover it if something horrible happens, right?  



I'm at 3.5 years of shooting and testing this stuff every day.We don't even mess with steel for NIJ.06 armor. Not an option.

Other stuff:  Each steel heat should be tested.  COC and Ballistic Test Report should be supplied from the manufacturer for each run.  We test each lot in house after that.  



These target guys should be able to give you a test report for the steel that they are selling as armor.  Each heat/lot is different. It should be traceable.

If they can't,...well, you saved a few dollars.



CHRIS

Your trying very hard to be to be obtuse, but I think I get your point.

"AR500 armor isn't tested to the same standard and isn't as reliable"

Am I right?

I will continue my defense of using AR500 plates, for whatever reason I ended up doing so.  (I readily admit that the weight sucks)

I have personally shot individual pieces of AR500, from different manufactures, more times than ANY ceramic plate  has ever been shot in testing. My AR500 plate carries a rating from the same agency as any body armor, I watched many videos of people trying to destroy my plates (the same ones I was thinking about purchasing) prior to purchase- some from people I hold in high regard. Lastly,  I have an AR500 plate (from the same manufacturer) I plan to test myself.

All of that trumps, to me, anything I read in an internet thread.

Exactly which plates do you use?

Currahee, let me say up front, I refer to your website several friends from different walks of life, whether civilian or other LEO friends from work, when they're looking for information beyond firearms or a tac rig, for a great deal of other things they ought to know, to include other items they ought to have, and reading materials.

That's to say, your site is a very detailed and informative collective resource that I've been confident in referring others to.

With this plate business, you're better than this. The information showing ceramic Level IV plates to be the superior option over coated AR500 steel plates is out there, in large amounts and in great depth. They are lighter in weight and offer greater protection than the steel plates.

I was in your shoes once. I bought coated steel plates first. I figured they were better than nothing, were bargain priced (something to watch out for,) and that they were more durable and would stand up to more abuse, and last longer over time. Then I ran with them in a course and I really felt the weight. Then I saw how affordable Level IV plates were. Then I did the comparative research. I read ballistic reports. I watched videos. I've seen the steel plates defeated.

I thought, what was I thinking? I searched and read around, and ended up with Midwest Armor GUARDIAN IV plates at less than 300 for the pair. I tried em on, and you could feel the difference, and it was backed by the confidence in the science behind them that made them the better choice.

I know Layer60 might be abrasive in his approach. When I was a steel plate guy, before I knew who he was or what his background was, I thought he was a dick. So I know how you feel. Then I shut up and read what he had to say, paid attention, and followed up on what he said with my own research. He's right, man. He's right. Don't blow him off. Give it some good thought. You owe it to yourself and your readers to have the best information in mind and on hand. Every citizen a soldier would be a worthless effort if they were all cut down in the first volley because they were weighed down by inadequate protection.

Thing about bargain priced... you get what you pay for. Think about it.