User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/20/2016 4:48:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sarah Palin skinny dipping?!?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Speaking of even more vids, we have another video in the works coming very soon showing something not ever filmed before in the lower 48 states. Sarah Palin skinny dipping?!? Why am I waiting for the lipstick punchline given the topic at hand?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2016 2:28:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why am I waiting for the lipstick punchline given the topic at hand? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Speaking of even more vids, we have another video in the works coming very soon showing something not ever filmed before in the lower 48 states. Sarah Palin skinny dipping?!? Why am I waiting for the lipstick punchline given the topic at hand? I was just responding with the humorous thought I had when I saw the post, David. Before I read through 100 increasingly tense comments. My $ 0.02? A group of very knowledgeable, well meaning people are talking past each other and some are getting caught up in semantics. From my experience of three weeks, I haven't seen anyone intentionally trying to mislead anyone while you and Harlikwin are the two applying the science in similar fashion with slightly different approaches. Semantically, recognition "there is SOMETHING there" is the major difference between IIT and thermal - which is what I would say everyone is pointing out and then going into specific discussions of what that means to them. A new universe is opening up for lots of people with the increasing choices in thermal optics/scopes and people are expressing their enthusiasm in differing terms.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2016 4:57:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Damn ! I never thought a post asking how you like the HD19A would turn into 5 pages. As I said I have one. Don't have any wild pigs where I am located. I do see varmints and bunny's on a regular basis. Much past 75 yards and you can't ID but you can still detect. These are small creatures though. I can tell a deer is a deer at about 200 yards.
I am not up on the science as some others but this is my observations. Much past 200 ID is possible under ideal conditions but you still have questions. As I said it is a good scope taking into consideration the cost. Mine has the Oled screen which I hear they don't produce anymore on that unit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2016 7:02:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Damn ! I never though a post asking how you like the HD19A would turn into 5 pages. See what you started?!? 
These boyz do seem to carry on with some "dick-n-degree waving" sometimes. 
Which is only bested by sporadic "toy wagging" ala Skypup (I can only aspire to that level currently). Pretty amusing and occasionally informative. Reminds me of a nerdy Fiddler Crab community sometimes.  d:^) Jake..
Yeah, yeah. Blow it out yer azz, jock-strap. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2016 7:09:50 PM EDT
[#5]
My .02 on all of this is that real world video trumps any made up figures i've presented. Those numbers are math under ideal conditions, I'm and experimentalist at heart, and if some guy posts an actual vid at a verified distance showing something at 500yds when the math says it should only work at 400 or 450 then who am I to argue. As I've mentioned probably ad nauseum, i have a ancient 160x120 core thermal unit that shouldn't be able to pick up deer sized targets, but it did. Mind you it was literally one shiny pixel in the FOV, but it got me interested enough to point my simrad at it and id the target as a deer (didn't shoot deer, wasn't hunting deer, saw deer). The math works out to 1.4x0.9 pixels for a 3x5' target at that distance, but clearly it worked and conditions were pretty much optimal. I don't own a pulsar HD19, but I do own a HD38 (better optics for long range is the difference) and i'm pretty confident the 38 could detect hogs at that distance, probably not ID them tho. The 19 might detect them too, and certainly not ID them. Honestly its not rocket science, the better optics your thermal has the better for long range detection and ID, the higher res detector the better too none of that is in dispute.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2016 9:29:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See what you started?!?
These boyz do seem to carry on with some "dick-n-degree waving" sometimes.
Which is only bested by sporadic "toy wagging" ala Skypup (I can only aspire to that level currently). Pretty amusing and occasionally informative. Reminds me of a nerdy Fiddler Crab community sometimes. d:^) Jake..
Yeah, yeah. Blow it out yer azz, jock-strap.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:Damn ! I never though a post asking how you like the HD19A would turn into 5 pages. See what you started?!?
These boyz do seem to carry on with some "dick-n-degree waving" sometimes.
Which is only bested by sporadic "toy wagging" ala Skypup (I can only aspire to that level currently). Pretty amusing and occasionally informative. Reminds me of a nerdy Fiddler Crab community sometimes. d:^) Jake..
Yeah, yeah. Blow it out yer azz, jock-strap.
Indeed ! Been around a long time and seen it all. I still enjoy all the bickering though. It is a fun forum and folks learn a lot. You have to overlook stuff at times but I learned to not make much of it 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 12:47:01 AM EDT
[#7]
I'll just leave this here
  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 5:11:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll just leave this here
 http://youtu.be/NPIOGUNZ-mg
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8153/29713718442_762f2f526f_b.jpg Gotta love a video where pigs die at the end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 6:50:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Nice looking video. 1/3 fake pixels and all. What were the measurements of that dead hog. It looks like it was smaller than a typical Texas 18" hog? Assuming you do what we all do. Shot the biggest one first?
Guessing the left side was of the hog was the dirty side, right side in photo looked pretty clean?? Thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 9:11:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll just leave this here
http://youtu.be/NPIOGUNZ-mg
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8153/29713718442_762f2f526f_b.jpg 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 12:57:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll just leave this here
http://youtu.be/NPIOGUNZ-mg
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8153/29713718442_762f2f526f_b.jpg https://media.giphy.com/media/14ceV8wMLIGO6Q/giphy.gif ^ Favorite post of the day! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 1:32:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just responding with the humorous thought I had when I saw the post, David. Before I read through 100 increasingly tense comments. My $ 0.02? A group of very knowledgeable, well meaning people are talking past each other and some are getting caught up in semantics. From my experience of three weeks, I haven't seen anyone intentionally trying to mislead anyone while you and Harlikwin are the two applying the science in similar fashion with slightly different approaches. Semantically, recognition "there is SOMETHING there" is the major difference between IIT and thermal - which is what I would say everyone is pointing out and then going into specific discussions of what that means to them. A new universe is opening up for lots of people with the increasing choices in thermal optics/scopes and people are expressing their enthusiasm in differing terms. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Speaking of even more vids, we have another video in the works coming very soon showing something not ever filmed before in the lower 48 states. Sarah Palin skinny dipping?!?
Why am I waiting for the lipstick punchline given the topic at hand?
Before I read through 100 increasingly tense comments. My $ 0.02? A group of very knowledgeable, well meaning people are talking past each other and some are getting caught up in semantics. From my experience of three weeks, I haven't seen anyone intentionally trying to mislead anyone while you and Harlikwin are the two applying the science in similar fashion with slightly different approaches. Semantically, recognition "there is SOMETHING there" is the major difference between IIT and thermal - which is what I would say everyone is pointing out and then going into specific discussions of what that means to them. A new universe is opening up for lots of people with the increasing choices in thermal optics/scopes and people are expressing their enthusiasm in differing terms. Nice post. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 1:34:57 PM EDT
[#13]
And I was able to ID hogs using the internal laser ranger finder @ 5,000 yards with the Recon V's excellent 1280x720 OLED display, detection was easy at 12,000 yards!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 1:41:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Cool.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 2:01:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Ah Wah, it was a long hike to kill those bastards though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 2:37:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And I was able to ID hogs using the internal laser ranger finder @ 5,000 yards with the Recon V's excellent 1280x720 OLED display, detection was easy at 12,000 yards! You're not fooling us, Skypup. You ID'd those hogs with the millimeter band radar feed from your Predator drone that goes straight to your OLED display. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 2:44:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Aye, I was just wishing I'd had a heat seeking shoulder fired missile to take them out with instead of hiking for miles through the swamps!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 2:47:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Looking to get into a thermal handheld with a budget of about $2000. I was really interested in the Thor Hd line but i'm not spending my money on a unit that hasn't worked out the bugs yet. Does anyone have the Pulsar? Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance! OP, here is your chance to get one of those outstanding super long range heat seeking instruments for FREE!
http://www.ar15.com/nightgoggles.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_1/1910652_.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 5:57:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Maybe Johnson need to reevaluate his Critera.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 5:59:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe Johnson need to reevaluate his Critera. Yeah, just think, a HD19A with a 640 core would ID hogs at 2,000 yards based on internet lore!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 6:31:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Maybe Johnson was just erring on the side of caution? Conservative with his model calculations? I guess we would be in deep shit if he went the other way?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 6:57:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe Johnson was just erring on the side of caution? Conservative with his model calculations? I guess we would be in deep shit if he went the other way? It is conservative imo.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 7:23:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is conservative imo.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe Johnson was just erring on the side of caution? Conservative with his model calculations? I guess we would be in deep shit if he went the other way? It is conservative imo.... Not when you have Perimeter Defense Sexurity to be concerned about installing electronic cameras to detect bad guys invading your space and differentiating good from bad. Fortunately the same technical science applies to all thermal devices though. But here in the GD NV forms anything goes!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 7:30:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not when you have Perimeter Defense Sexurity to be concerned about installing electronic cameras to detect bad guys invading your space and differentiating good from bad. Fortunately the same technical science applies to all thermal devices though. But here in the GD NV forms anything goes! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Maybe Johnson was just erring on the side of caution? Conservative with his model calculations? I guess we would be in deep shit if he went the other way? It is conservative imo.... Not when you have Perimeter Defense Sexurity to be concerned about installing electronic cameras to detect bad guys invading your space and differentiating good from bad. Fortunately the same technical science applies to all thermal devices though. But here in the GD NV forms anything goes! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 7:51:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Actually, software generated fake pixels are kinda nice, you don't have to pay extra for them, you get them for free.
They do affect the Johnson criteria in a negative way though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 7:56:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, software generated fake pixels are kinda nice, you don't have to pay extra for them, you get them for free. They do affect the Johnson criteria in a negative way though. Skypup, I'm curious to know whether you consider the video I posted to be conclusive evidence that the HD19A is capable of detecting hogs at 500 yards. If the answer is no, could you explain specifically why it isn't? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 8:07:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Skypup, I'm curious to know whether you consider the video I posted to be conclusive evidence that the HD19A is capable of detecting hogs at 500 yards. If the answer is no, could you explain specifically why it isn't? http://youtu.be/NPIOGUNZ-mg
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually, software generated fake pixels are kinda nice, you don't have to pay extra for them, you get them for free. They do affect the Johnson criteria in a negative way though. Skypup, I'm curious to know whether you consider the video I posted to be conclusive evidence that the HD19A is capable of detecting hogs at 500 yards. If the answer is no, could you explain specifically why it isn't? http://youtu.be/NPIOGUNZ-mg
Those damn free fake pixels, they're always looking like hogs and shit! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 8:20:00 PM EDT
[#28]
I would love to see this thread get back to the original topic.....opinions and/or feedback of actual owners and users of the HD19a....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 8:30:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those damn free fake pixels, they're always looking like hogs and shit! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, software generated fake pixels are kinda nice, you don't have to pay extra for them, you get them for free. They do affect the Johnson criteria in a negative way though. Skypup, I'm curious to know whether you consider the video I posted to be conclusive evidence that the HD19A is capable of detecting hogs at 500 yards. If the answer is no, could you explain specifically why it isn't? http://youtu.be/NPIOGUNZ-mg
Those damn free fake pixels, they're always looking like hogs and shit! Hmm, perhaps Pulsar has a patented algorithm to turn fake pixels into little hoglets that defies the Johnson Criteria ?
UNVRich, yes the video you posted is conclusive evidence that you can detect heat signatures at 495 yards with your thermal device under ideal conditions. Many times I have detected heat signatures with many of my 320-338 core devices with 19mm and 35mm lenses out twice that distance under ideal conditions too, it is not a big deal or a big marketing ploy, that's how it works sometimes. Other times I am lucky to detect at 1/4 those distances if at all. When someone one asks me about maximum ranges of the devices, I tell them that too, I have plenty of good videos and plenty of bad videos since that is how thermal works. What device did you use to ID those animals before shooting at them since I could not ID any of them in your video at 95 yards, you must have had a more powerful device on your rig, no? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 9:27:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What device did you use to ID those animals before shooting at them since I could not ID any of them in your video at 95 yards, you must have had a more powerful device on your rig, no? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 9:29:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What did you think they were when you saw them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What device did you use to ID those animals before shooting at them since I could not ID any of them in your video at 95 yards, you must have had a more powerful device on your rig, no? I had no idea, you do not give a name to heat signatures. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 9:48:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had no idea, you do not give a name to heat signatures. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What device did you use to ID those animals before shooting at them since I could not ID any of them in your video at 95 yards, you must have had a more powerful device on your rig, no? I had no idea, you do not give a name to heat signatures. I figured with your vast experience you might have said they at least had the behavior of hogs? Or resembled hogs? If you were hog hunting on your place and saw those heat signatures what would you have done in response? Thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 10:06:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? I figured with your vast experience you might have said they at least had the behavior of hogs? Or resembled hogs? If you were hog hunting on your place and saw those heat signatures what would you have done in response? Thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What device did you use to ID those animals before shooting at them since I could not ID any of them in your video at 95 yards, you must have had a more powerful device on your rig, no? I had no idea, you do not give a name to heat signatures. I figured with your vast experience you might have said they at least had the behavior of hogs? Or resembled hogs? If you were hog hunting on your place and saw those heat signatures what would you have done in response? Thanks. Wow, your kidding right?
I never go blasting at heat signatures I think could be/might be hogs, apparently that is not UNVRich's personal property either, it is someone else's property. Look, I've got a lot of responsibility to look out for hunting hogs and coyotes at night on my properties and other private and public properties with firearms, and shooting bear cubs, fawns, calves, dogs or kids is not something I'd like to get involved with. I have numerous State Contracts signed by the State Attorney General in the State Capitol with the Fish and Game Commission, Department of Natural Resources, State Park System, State University Board of Regents, etc. with millions of dollars of liability insurance provided through the National Rifle Association, and you think I am shooting at heat signatures that I think might be/could be swine? 
Nope, not me, never have and never will, I consider that unethical hunting and anyone that pulls that stunt hunting with me is not invited back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 10:33:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Really? Your experience of recognizing hog behavior would have sent you away in this way example rather than getting closer? I'm disappointed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 10:38:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Your experience of recognizing hog behavior would have sent you away in this way example rather than getting closer? I'm disappointed. Really, did I say that?
What I said is I cannot ID those heat signatures in this video at 95 yards, so what was used for Positive ID for all the shooting to start? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 10:41:27 PM EDT
[#36]
I never suggested you betray your ethics or local laws by shooting something you were not sure of. I wouldn't either and hope no one else here would either. I simply asked what you thought it was based on your experience and wanted the know what you would have done in that same situation if unsure. Can you answer your that question instead?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 10:44:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Sure, I'd check out the heat signatures until I could make positive ID, if they were positively IDed as deer, I'd walk away, if they were swine and there was a clear backdrop I'd snipe them out.
What is so difficult about that? I always check out heat signatures to make positive ID or not on them. A heat signature has no name until Positive ID has been made. I could not make Positive ID in that video when the shooting commenced so I assumed there was another more potent NV/Thermal device being used for that determination? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 11:03:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: UNVRich, yes the video you posted is conclusive evidence that you can detect heat signatures at 495 yards with your thermal device under ideal conditions. Many times I have detected heat signatures with many of my 320-338 core devices with 19mm and 35mm lenses out twice that distance under ideal conditions too, it is not a big deal or a big marketing ploy, that's how it works sometimes. Other times I am lucky to detect at 1/4 those distances if at all. When someone one asks me about maximum ranges of the devices, I tell them that too, I have plenty of good videos and plenty of bad videos since that is how thermal works. What device did you use to ID those animals before shooting at them since I could not ID any of them in your video at 95 yards, you must have had a more powerful device on your rig, no? Fair enough, although I would go further and say the video proves that the HD19A is capable of detecting hogs at 500 yards under average conditions, quite easily in fact. The weather conditions last night in Henderson, Texas at 8:30 PM were: 82.5 °F and 64 % humidity. When you consider the other video I posted showing the deer at 500 yards in much tougher conditions (75°F, 90% Humidity, drizzling rain, and moderate wind) I would say that's pretty good evidence that the HD19A is capable of detecting hog-sized animals at 500 yards under most conditions. With that said, I don't think there's anything particularly amazing about the performance of the HD19A compared to other 320/336/384 units. As you can see in the deer video, all of the 320 units I tested were able to detect the deer at 500 yards in tough thermal conditions. The thing that stands out the most to me about the HD19A is that it was the first unit to offer that type of performance for under $2,000. I don't think my testing in any way invalidates the Johnson Criteria, but I do think it sheds some light on the appropriate measurements to use when determining the critical dimension of a hog. Additionally, I think it's fair to say that thermal detection range for hogs is roughly equal to detection range for human-sized targets. To answer your question, I used a rifle-mounted Zeus 336 3X scope to shoot the hogs while I held the HD19A with my left hand. I also had pictures emailed to me from my game camera which showed the pigs. Even without the Zeus or the game camera, I can unequivocally say that it would have been no problem spotting the pigs from 500 yards or ID'ing them from 95 yards with the HD19A.   |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/21/2016 11:03:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could not make Positive ID in that video when the shooting commenced so I assumed there was another more potent NV/Thermal device being used for that determination? I'm sure you're a great guy and would be a lot of fun to hunt with. I know you have a wealth of knowledge that you can contribute to most every topic in this sub forum. I don't understand why you're so reluctant to give any concession here? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 12:08:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure, I'd check out the heat signatures until I could make positive ID, if they were positively IDed as deer, I'd walk away, if they were swine and there was a clear backdrop I'd snipe them out. What is so difficult about that? I always check out heat signatures to make positive ID or not on them. A heat signature has no name until Positive ID has been made. I could not make Positive ID in that video when the shooting commenced so I assumed there was another more potent NV/Thermal device being used for that determination? "What is so difficult with that" seems to be your incredible reluctance to come out and say it. Wildfowler had to practically drag that answer out of you while you answered all but his main question. I was reading your initial response and thinking "What BS! I don't believe for a second that he'd give up at 95 yards in this instance but stalk 12000 yards through the swamp in another." |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 12:24:18 AM EDT
[#41]
This thread is bordering on sureal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 7:30:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, a rifle like that provides a reasonable basis for size estimation. http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-pig-cross-section-heartgirth-1.jpg I don't know who you're trying to fool here - but that pig is not 18" cross-section diameter across the chest. Maximum reliable detection range for that pig, with a HD19A, is 213 yards. Looks like the 200~300 yds estimate is holding up pretty well. Regards David. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know about down under, but the pigs in Texas are bigger than 18 inches. You know, a rifle like that provides a reasonable basis for size estimation. http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-pig-cross-section-heartgirth-1.jpg I don't know who you're trying to fool here - but that pig is not 18" cross-section diameter across the chest. Maximum reliable detection range for that pig, with a HD19A, is 213 yards. Looks like the 200~300 yds estimate is holding up pretty well. Regards David. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 8:22:33 AM EDT
[#43]
I realize that every single post I make in the NV forms is offensive to all the players who take offense to everything I say here, if I post a hundred words the players will all quote one of the words they take offense with and go off on a tangent on that. The great thing about all the offended players is that I do not have any responsibility for their anger and hatred about what they get offended at all time,
I thought it was common knowledge that any 320-338 core thermal scanner with a 19mm lens was adequate for maximum detection out to 500 yards under ideal conditions and half that under more challenging conditions, adding a 35mm lens to the same unit with less FOV increases those ranges by about 25-30%. I also thought that these units were primarily to be used for detection and not identification purposes, as their Positive ID range is about 100 yards under ideal conditions and less when conditions are not ideal. If I was selling one to someone, that is what I would tell them about it, it's no big secret to anyone who understands much about uncooled thermal microbolometers or has much experience in the field, i.e. You do not have to be an expert to realize that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 9:35:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: UNVRich, yes the video you posted is conclusive evidence that you can detect heat signatures at 495 yards with your thermal device under ideal conditions. Many times I have detected heat signatures with many of my 320-338 core devices with 19mm and 35mm lenses out twice that distance under ideal conditions too, it is not a big deal or a big marketing ploy, that's how it works sometimes.Other times I am lucky to detect at 1/4 those distances if at all. Quoted: I thought it was common knowledge that any 320-338 core thermal scanner with a 19mm lens was adequate for maximum detection out to 500 yards under ideal conditions and half that under more challenging conditions, adding a 35mm lens to the same unit with less FOV increases those ranges by about 25-30%. So is it 1000 yards under ideal conditions or is it 500? What about typical conditions? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 9:47:56 AM EDT
[#45]
The fact is that if you were in the same place with the same kit at a different time that night you may have not seen anything due to the constantly changing conditions and the diurnal thermal emissivity changing over time.
I'm not an employee selling any gear while you most certainly are, why don't you tell us what you would tell a customer about the capabilities of the kit you would sell them? Generally marketing videos and commentary from companies selling this gear are held to a higher standard than those of us who use the gear, generally those companies and their employees tend to be conservative about the claims of the products they are selling to us consumers. Just tell us here like you would to a potential customer about the maximum and minimum detection range and Positive ID range of the kit you are selling. I am not selling anything and would like to hear your honest assessment. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 10:20:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Hi Rich, Thanks for posting the video - it highlights what you're saying really well. I'm really impressed with the thermal as well. You're probably not going to agree with me on this, but I do think you're still overestimating the range of the unit. I'm not questioning the video - it's pretty well made and I'm going to trust the supplied measurements as verbatim - however, the following points were noted. 1) Pigs fade in and out at over 500 yds. 2) Several pigs sometimes fit within the same angular detection range. This improves detection when it happens. 3) You know exactly where to look for the pigs without even detecting them - this does improve detection. ( updates to thermal theory post-johnson criteria in recent years allow for other factors such as time on target while scanning, and attention to the area scanned ) 4) The pigs are constantly moving, aiding detection when they are on the edge of image noise. 5) At times, the unit also seems to detect pigs that don't seem to be there - that is, false positives. I also note that the image improved quite a bit at the 50% detection mark as specified by the Johnson criteria, especially on the larger pigs. So while I accept your video, I still think the Johnson criteria needs to be accepted and used when range is specified, and the figures for the detection range are still in the original range claimed, and that was demonstrated based on the target sizes you originally specified. You've done a good job demonstrating your point, although I would still call that detection unreliable - I guess we may see differently on that point, even looking at the same video. David. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 10:30:24 AM EDT
[#47]
I can't ever imagine seeing deer out to 500 yards. I am sure it can happen under ideal conditions but is not my observations. I mostly use my scope on the water while boating. You can see for miles on the water. About 200 yards is my max detection range under "normal" conditions.
Things are just to fuzzy and blurry much past that. I don't have many pigs running around on the top of the Chesapeake Bay but there are plenty of fishing vessels (some small and some large with people and dogs meandering on deck). Mine even has the Oled display. I don't understand the science of thermals like I do intensifier tubes. This is just my real world observations. I like the unit and it does what I need it to do. 500 yards ? Maybe on a great day but no way I could ever tell what I was looking at with any real certainty. I am not doubting Rich as he puts out some nice videos. Just has not been my experience with this unit.
Both companies sell the same unit and most seem to think it is a good deal for the cost. Everyone can have different experiences. Don't really know what the argument here is.
ETA: If I were selling this unit (which I am not) I would state reliable max detection range of pig,man or something similar size to be 200 to 300 yards. That has been my real world experience with this unit. I would need to be much closer to positively ID if I were hunting. That is a job I leave to my intensifier based gear. Thermal is just a tool (for me) to tell me something I am interested in is out and about. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 11:17:11 AM EDT
[#48]
I shot this video last night with the 384 core ThorHD at base 1.25x. 0 to 611 yards, I am 5'10", 225lbs (yup, I am just as sexy as you imagined). I am going to do this video over as the unit really needed to settle to ambiant temp and get NUC'ed a few more times as you can see the image degrades pretty bad over time. I would also like to see it in back/hot as well.
Can someone get the video to work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJDcDXma70&feature=youtu.be |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 11:26:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shot this video last night with the 384 core ThorHD at base 1.25x. 0 to 611 yards, I am 5'10", 225lbs (yup, I am just as sexy as you imagined). I am going to do this video over as the unit really needed to settle to ambiant temp and get NUC'ed a few more times as you can see the image degrades pretty bad over time. I would also like to see it in back/hot as well. <a href="http://s83.photobucket.com/user/caver101/media/long%20walk%20photo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/caver101/long%20walk%20photo.jpg</a> Can someone get the video to work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJDcDXma70&feature=youtu.be Your video works but if you were not jumping around and waving your hands I could easily think you were a bush or small tree. I would not call that reliable detection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/22/2016 11:36:24 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact is that if you were in the same place with the same kit at a different time that night you may have not seen anything due to the constantly changing conditions and the diurnal thermal emissivity changing over time. I'm not an employee selling any gear while you most certainly are, why don't you tell us what you would tell a customer about the capabilities of the kit you would sell them? Generally marketing videos and commentary from companies selling this gear are held to a higher standard than those of us who use the gear, generally those companies and their employees tend to be conservative about the claims of the products they are selling to us consumers. Just tell us here like you would to a potential customer about the maximum and minimum detection range and Positive ID range of the kit you are selling. I am not selling anything and would like to hear your honest assessment. While that is certainly true with regard to inanimate objects and the image quality of the scene in general, the temperature of hogs and other animals is going to remain stable. I hunt at night with these devices 2-3 times per week and when I hunt, I often don't quit until the sun comes up, so I'm pretty familiar with how they look throughout the course of the night. Based on my experience, unless it was pouring down rain and/or thick heavy fog, I would have been able to detect those hogs with the HD19A at that distance. I'm perfectly fine with some additional scrutiny on the videos I post. I'm happy to answer any questions relating to my videos and I welcome all feedback whether positive or negative because it helps me make improvements going forward. So far, the people who seem to disagree with me on this thread have hardly mentioned the videos at all. I think I've been pretty straightforward about what I believe is the typical detection range of this unit. The post below sums up pretty well the type of answer I would relay to a customer: Quoted: Fair enough, although I would go further and say the video proves that the HD19A is capable of detecting hogs at 500 yards under average conditions, quite easily in fact. The weather conditions last night in Henderson, Texas at 8:30 PM were: 82.5 °F and 64 % humidity. When you consider the other video I posted showing the deer at 500 yards in much tougher conditions (75°F, 90% Humidity, drizzling rain, and moderate wind) I would say that's pretty good evidence that the HD19A is capable of detecting hog-sized animals at 500 yards under most conditions. With that said, I don't think there's anything particularly amazing about the performance of the HD19A compared to other 320/336/384 units. As you can see in the deer video, all of the 320 units I tested were able to detect the deer at 500 yards in tough thermal conditions. The thing that stands out the most to me about the HD19A is that it was the first unit to offer that type of performance for under $2,000. If a customer asks about the absolute maximum and minimum range of a particular unit I will give them my best estimate, but it makes much more sense to me to tell them what they can typically expect for their intended use. The stated absolute maximum and minimum distances you have provided (250-1000 yards) don't seem unreasonable to me, but I would say they are quite far from the norm and are much too broad to be of much practical use to the typical hunter wanting to know how far he can detect hogs. That's the reason I wanted to know what you would consider as the typical detection range for hogs with a unit like the HD19A, Scout 320, etc. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
