Where are you guys getting SAN or SAN dimension 552 handguards? I must know!

If you are looking for real Sig SAN 552 handguards there are tons of them around. I've personally seen three different sets on Gunbroker in the last month, one is still listed for around 90 bucks. You can also order them brand new directly from Rolf at Gunfactory in Switzerland.

But you need to keep in mind those only fit the short 552/553 action weapons, which would be the new import pistols (that already come with a set) or a custom build that used a real 552 or 553 kit.

The Sig USA P556 pistols and 556 Patrol rifles use a different, unique length gas system that makes them about an inch LONGER than the real 552/553 which renders the original handguards unusable on them. If you are in THAT boat (with the rest of us) then you have three options... leave the handguards that came with your 556 on it, buy a set of the thin toylike MFI handguards or do a native american medicine man rain dance and pray to the spirits a set of DDLES 552 handguards fall out of the sky.

I've been rain dancing like a madman and nothing fell out of the sky, so I decided to just order a set of real 550 handguards from Rolf and have my friend's dad cut them down and drill them out for me. I'll be posting pictures of the before and after when the parts roll in in a few weeks.

I'm in the SAN boat. The only handguards I can find are the MFI ones, like these. Could you please show me a link of the ones on gunbroker? You will have earned yourself a new best friend.

The last set on gunbroker looks like it sold last night around 10:30pm. It was these: Here

There is a good chance that seller might have more sets. There are a few sellers on gunbroker who seem to have quite a lot of 552 parts for sale on and off.

I have been enjoying this thread, as I have been on a similar journey  with my two 551 projects.  I just got a new factory black semi Swiss lower and mated it with a excellent condition 556 upper.  I was wondering where you got your Aurora sights?  It seems Top Gun supply was the distributor, but none to see on their site currently.  Any leads?

Aurora sights are out of production to my understanding and no retailers carry them anymore. They are pretty much only available used at this point. Your best bet is to do like I did and pepper the internet with WTB ads. I got mine from a guy who saw my listing on Sturmgewehr. I've had a few folks IM me looking for them as well and I tried to pass on any possible hits I got from my ads after I had my set, but I didn't really get any more responses... truth be told it was sheer luck that I got my set.

Manticore is working on some HK style diopter sights for the 556 platform right now, I'm not sure when those will be available though.

It seems like a lot of the 55X stuff is drying up right now, or at least it does to me.

An interesting update:

I actually got an email back form DDLES! JBeaurdy emailed me back saying that DDLES still offers the remaining handguard end caps they have in stock for sale, but they no longer offer the handguard cutdown service. So if anyone else is in my boat, there is the answer. DDLES cutdown handguards are an officially endangered species.

Project update:

My upper is at Orion being engraved with my LLC info this week so my Sig is pretty much a box of parts at the moment.

My Sig 550 handguards tracking says they are sitting in new york right now, most likely in some customs warehouse. I hope to have them some time next week. In the meantime I gave my friend's dad my MFI handguard set as well as my P556 handguard set so he can get measurements and "practice" on the p556 set. So there is a chance I will have a P556 handguard set with drilled 552 holes in it. Depending on how it turns out I might turn around and sell it if someone wants it.

I found a set of Swiss rail sections and ordered those to "complete the look" and sheeit are those things expensive. Two little bolt on rails with screws cost more than the 550 handguards.

I'm also debating having my bolt carrier stripped and refinished black. I'm thinking Robar Poly T2 or Roguard if they offer it.

I'm also STILL LOOKING FOR an original angled charging handle as well as an original three bolt top rail that DOESN'T have the flip up popsicle sight if anyone has those.

The Sig 550 handguards from Rolf at Gunfactory.ch arrived today. I can't say enough nice things about Rolf. If anyone is doing a build similar to mine Rolf has nearly every part you can imagine in stock, he speaks english perfectly, the shipping costs are not that bad (and the shipping is fast), they take paypal and best of all the parts are BRAND NEW. Not beat to shit stupid expensive police trade ins and parts kit piecemeal you find on Gunbroker.

I promised before and after photos, so here are the 550 handguards and the rail sections "before".



My friend will be picking them up to give to his dad once we have a test run using the P556 handguards as guinea pigs.

I have a lead on an angled charging handle and I heard back from Robar that they will refinish my bolt carrier to manganese phosphate black for only $30.

Home stretch now... just need the upper back from engraving at Orion, then the wait for the form 1 to come back then the final barrel cut at ADCO.

And I guess it is official that this is a SG 553 clone now.

So what will be your total cost compared to buying a real 553 from GunBroker?

Well, lets see...

Sig 556 Patrol NIB $1000
Sold the original lower -$275
Sold the original handguards -$50
Sold the original sights -$120

So initial cost of the host weapon $555

Aurora Sight Set $250
Sig SAN Lower with pins $950
MFI Handguards with Flash Hider $200 (these will most likely be sold once my real handguards are fabricated)
US Swiss Folding Stock $100 (estimate, I bought a 551A1 lower and sold it but kept the stock)
Zurich Wedge $20
Sig 550 Handguards $170 (does not include "beer and pizza" as payment to friend's father for machine work on them)
Manticore 552 Charging Handle $55 (to be sold when my angled handle is in, so not included in price total)
Angled Charging Handle $? (still waiting for price from seller)
Refinish Bolt Carrier Black at Robar $30 (will most likely cost more for return postage, waiting for full quote)

Cost of parts so far in the build $1720

Costs incurred in SBR process:

Form 1 $200
Orion ATF engraving $70
ADCO barrel cut down $200 (estimate, on the high side and will possibly be less)

SBR costs $470

Options:

Sig 552 Rail Sections $210
10 20 round SAN magazines from CDNN $310

Mags and rails $520

So... totalling up all my current expenses, my running project cost to date including estimates is $3265. That number includes all the NFA costs as well as the stupidly expensive 552 rail kit and ten SAN magazines.

Had I gone the imported Swiss Sig 553 pistol route I would be in a different boat however as when I would go to SBR it I would encounter 922r and I would have to buy a bunch of US sourced parts to up my parts count. PLUS I would have to buy an expensive B&T Swiss detatchable top rail (if I went with the fixed sights model) or buy a rail mount rear diopter (plus front) like the Auroras again if I went rail top.

Yes the overall cost is close, but I think in the long run it will be cheaper.

The receiver is back from the engraver and ready for it's final trip to ADCO in a few months when the form 1 comes back.

I got back the "test mule" handguards from my friend's dad last night. While they are odd looking (a half set of 552 holes drilled into a set of Sig Sauer P556 handguards) they are not nearly as rough as I was expecting. My friend's father is actually building a custom jig fixture for his drill press to properly align the air holes so the "real handguards" should be an identical match to the MFI set's air hole size and locations. He also properly deduced the drill bit size for the mounting screws for the rails as well.

I'm still on the fence with whether to actually mount the rails or leave them off. I mean, I won't be putting a vertical grip or a light on this thing. I probably won't make up my mind until I have the parts in hand.

I also recently found out that Michael's Machines still has some of their clone 1/2x28 SG553 Rotex flash suppressors for sale, so I'm scooping up one of those as well to complete the package.

I decided against refinishing my original Sig USA bolt carrier and instead I found a nice original dark gray 551 carrier with an original angled charging handle to use. To stay on the good side of 922r I'm going to order and install the American made Sig 556 match trigger assembly.

Finally I'm thinking of getting a Zeiss Z Point for this project but I don't know if I should go that route or with an Aimpoint T1 instead. They are about the same price give or take fifty bucks or so.

In a week or so when the last of my parts trickle in and the build is in the final stages I'll post some more pictures. About that time I'll also be shedding the remaining surplus and redundant parts that I've accumulated from the build.

When you SBR 922R goes out the window as I recall.

I've seen conflicting ATF opinion letters on the matter. Better safe than sorry in my mind... plus starting with a domestic 556 makes it easier to stay on the good side of 922r.

I also just found out the P553 Imports have Alloy Lowers .. not Steel ..   so I wouldn't even want one anyway.    Does have a welded Diopter though.

The 553 pistols are also available with welded top rails and flip sights... but all of them appear to have the same lower.

There are contradictory letters from ATF on this subject. I personally abide by 922(r) just to be safe.





The Swiss aluminum lowers are great. I personally really like the design. It is much nicer than the 551-A1 lower.

Does anyone have experience with the Zeiss Z Point?

I'm looking for a micro optic for this build and I'm trying to decide between the Z Point and a Trijicon RMR.

Also, does anyone know what type of rail these US 556 top rails are? I mounted a spare Primary Arms micro last night just to get a feel for size and sight picture and it was loose on the rail, which makes me think either the PA micro is not to picatinny spec or the rail isn't... and this PA micro has fit on everything else I've had it on... sooooooooo...

The other point of concern with the PA Micro (and by extension an Aimpoint T1) is that with the original Sig angled cocking handle you bang your fingers right into the intensity knob no matter how far back or forward you mount it. I like the sight picture, but cocking the weapon is a PITA... which is why I'm considering the Zeiss as it doesn't have a big protruding intensity knob.

I had a Z-point mounted on a Valmet 62 with the cheese grater hand guard and Galil gas tube rail. The Z-point was a pain to turn off and the field of view small.  I have a Trijicon RMR and think it's a much better sight. Don't have it mounted on my Sig though. I'm currently using a Kahles 1-4x in a Larue mount. It's a fantastic set up; but, lately I've been thinking of switching to a TA44 Acog 1.5x.

You think Rulf can get a 3 or 4 setting gas valve?

If you know the part number or ask they might be able to. They've had every part I've asked about so far... of course all of the parts are dipped in gold and washed with unicorn tears, so bring your wallet.

Lol

This weekend I decided to test out a Trijicon RMR on my clone build and I have to say that while the size was right, the feel was kind of wonky.

It could just be my own preferences but it didn't feel like it added enough to the equation to warrant buying another one for this project. What I mean by that is that the RMR sits so low to the sights that you inevitably wind up looking down the sights to use it... and at that point the only benefit it adds is the two eye open red dot... which becomes quite hard to use if you are on anything but the open "1" field sight. The diopters block too much of my right eye when trying to go two eye using the red dot and it feels very awkward.

So I think I'm just going to stick with the iron sights for the immediate future.

As for the build it hasn't progressed much further. Still waiting on handguard fabrication to get underway and waiting on the form 1.

I did get in one of the M&M SG553 clone Rotex flash hiders though and it is a nice piece. I think it is superior to the MFI 552 flash hider in both finish and detail. And an interesting quirk is that the M&M 553 flash hider "rings" like a tuning fork but the MFI 552 flash hider doesn't... I wonder why that is?

Similar experience with my P556 with lower 1/3 cowitness and a Aimpoint Pro. I'm having the top of the hood removed from the front iron sight so you don't have to basically be looking down the sights in order to use the RDS.

The only thing needed is to have it painted with the correct paint, which I have. I get it directly from Swiss Arms/ Sig Sauer in Switzerland. Just got a gallon in 3 weeks ago. It is the correct Sig Umbra Grey Ilaflon two part paint. You can contact me at [email protected] for more info. I am also a warranty repair center for Sig with direct connection to them. Also have 55x parts access like new diopter rear sights, wipers, gas blocks, etc...

Is it the glossy stuff or the newer semi-flat? There are others who use the IIaflon, but it's the new flatter stuff. I purchased a factory (Black) 55X Swiss lower with a production date of 2012 and it too is rather flat. Nothing at all like the older finish, and not as durable while comparing the two IIaflon finishes side by side.

It is the same paint, it is just how it is prepared, applied, and cured. I can get either finish, just by changing the process. Ilaflon is available commercially, but not the factory Sig paint. That is proprietary to Swiss Arms. It all in the prep. I can make it shine or have it be satin. 550/551 are all satin finish. I am doing two 55x guns, one X5, and a couple other Sig guns for customers. The X5 is being done for Sig in NH.

Rough cost?

ETA: for instance, I had my 556R receivers painted entirely in Cerakote Sig Dark Gray (looks pretty good), so it would need to be stripped before being painted.

Thanks for the offer but I decided to keep my clone black like the current gen SG553 SOW export models that I'm trying to emulate. I like the gray Sigs but I think that color works best on the larger 551 types with green furniture. And I'm at my limit for import parts, I already have all the parts I needed... just waiting on my handguards to get finished at this point.

Got any pictures of that?

This is before small parts were added back on.





This is after small parts, with ARFCOM approved toes.

Sig 556R Gen II with SureFire G6 in a Thorntail mount and a VTAC Padded sling.  556R was Cerakoted with Sig Dark Grey (receivers) and OD Green (furniture) by a local smith. Mags are (10)  Waffle, Finnish M63 mag (factory OD) and Korean 20 rd.

I may have asked this already, but does anyone know of a domestic company that makes "clone" Sig top rails? Every now and then I see real "take off" 552/553 top rails come up for sale but their bolt pattern doesn't match my US receiver (bolt locations wrong).

It would be nice to have a replacement top rail that had the low SAN height popsicle sight (or a reasonable facsimile) and that had the two rear sling loops welded in like the real SG part but with the correct bolt pattern for US rifles.

Iirc, someone has to weld the top rail on for it to be correct (could be wrong though)

You are correct that the SAN top rails are welded on (they also have the common euro market "missing" middle rail lug sections which our American mounts dislike), but when you find one of the top rails as a part in the wild the tack weld spots appear to be capable of being used as bolt locations. If I was going to have someone weld something I would have just had a rear diopter sight housing welded on rather than a rail. But both avenues have the same problem, which is the removal and either filling or relocating of the bolt sleeves on the US 556 receiver.

I just feel like the closer and closer I get to having my build finished, the more the tiny niggling nit picky things that are lacking or incorrect bother me more and more. I figure my clone when finished will be as close as I can get to a black SG553-2 SOW Picatinny Export model. The only visible deviations between mine and a real rifle will be the slightly longer barrel (which is kind of an optical illusion that most people might miss anyway), the top rail, the sights and the markings. There is nothing I can do about the barrel length (and I'm already locked into it on the form 1 and the rest of my build) but I figure if I wanted to be as close as I could be I would remove my Aurora sights and get one of the MFI clone flip blocks that are height matched to the US popsicle sight. That would remedy most of the appearance except my rail would noticeably lack the two rear sling loops (ignoring the fact that the sights would be taller as well). Which is why I thought it would be neat if some domestic builder offered a three bolt clone rail with the sling loops and flip sight (or at least with the hole for the parts from your existing flip sight to transfer over).

I can't do anything about the 556 markings but I'm planning on infilling them in a light gray, trying to match the color of the SAN markings on the lower and bolt carrier I have. I'm hoping that will be enough to give them a "10 foot away correct" appearance if that makes any sense.

If you're planning on USING the sling loops, you'll want it welded, I'd think.  The bolt sleeves are notorious for how easy they strip out, YMMV

I'm not really planning anything at this stage. The part that I want doesn't exist and again I lack the tools and skills to fabricate one. Plus I have so much damn money in this thing at this point that my "price to return" sensor only trips if the part is mission critical... which adding sling loops that I will never even use to a rail that I will probably never even mount anything to is very low on the list. I'm more or less just "blue sky-ing" at this point.

... and thinking that I probably should have just bought one of the Sig 553 pistols to begin with.

Then again once the dust settles and I sell off all the surplus parts I'm still hanging on to, I bet I'm under the total cost of one of those pistols.

Plus the fun of actually finding the parts/building the gun yourself...

You could probably get a smith to weld some loops onto a rail for you, shoot, a good Sig Smith could probably make it look factory.

Might cost you some more $, but at this point, who cares?

Needless to say it is an option that I can live without for now. I figured if the part was already available then why not? But if it is yet another thing I will need custom fabricated for this job I can live without it. If there is a fabricator reading this who thinks they can make me the part for less than a shit ton of cake then by all means let me know.

And does anyone know when the Swiss SAN magazines changed from clear amber to smokey amber? I have a few 30 round magazines now and all of them are smokey rather than clear like my 20 rounders. Or is this just how the 30 round magazines are?

The newest generation of welded optic rail is solid in the center and the sight flips up from rear to front. It is an improvement over the previous rail. As for a steel rail that mimics the SAN welded variant, but which bolts into the receiver's nutserts, that would be aesthetically interesting, but likely functionally lacking if you were to use the sling mounts. Why not just go all the way and have a SAN rail welded in place by Jim at Blue Ridge Arsenal?

I'm not going to have anything welded on. I decided early on that if I absolutely had to go the welding route I was just going to have a rear sight base welded on and be done with it... but I passed that point a while back and I'm really willing to back up and dump even more large sums of money into this project again.

I figured if someone out there had actually made a bolt on part like what I was looking for then GREAT, easy peasy. At this stage of the game if it doesn't bolt on, snap on or thread on I'm not really interested in doing it.

The big concern I have is that while I love these aurora sights, the look they have is all wrong. The "more correct" look would be to get an MFI flip up front that matches my popsicle sight and go like that. But I don't like the popsicle sight so I'm most likely just going to keep my auroras in place.

Honestly the only gripe I have about the aurora sights is the lack of the flip up tritium night sight in front and the tritium vials in the rear. Had the aurora sights had those singular missing features they'd be perfect. Or if I could find a black clamp on rear and a black hooded front... but the only clamp ons Gunfactory has are the gray rail mount jobs that sit too high.

If you ever decide to ditch those Unicorns (the Aurora sights), PM me. I want em.

I have often wondered if the "take off" top rails with the sling loops would work as well.  I have also noticed that when removed, the mounting holes seem to have a clean appearance with a stepdown that appears to be for a flat head screw or similar.  I always found it odd that they looked so clean, since they were welded on, and you would think that it would just be a jagged hole with bits of weld in there.  As for the hole placement, I have an earlier SIg 556, that had four mounting points on the top of the receiver, opposed to three that they switched to early in production.  It would be interesting to see if they lined up.  One would think yes, since they were copying the Euro guns.
         As for you sight choice concerns, there is a sight that is sold by Waffen-Hiendlmayer (www.sg550.de) and is called in German "TROMMELVISIER USA"  The caption says "Der Diopter ist für die US-Ausführung (SG 556) mit kurzer Schiene angepasst." If you click on the picture itself, you will see different views of it as well as the short rail you use with it. I just purchased a used 556 on gunbroker that is comming with these sights put on it by the previous owner.  I did some interweb searches and came up with where the seller posted about the sights on the 556 forum with pictures of the exact same 556 rifle I happened to buy (I matched up his name and state.  It is amaizing what kind of shit you can find on the internet) He had posted them two years ago, and said he bought them on a message board somewhere.  He showed where he had to remove the rear top rail threaded stud to make the sight fit correctly.  He said that no instructions came with  the sights, but that they work fine and dial in at the respected meter adjustments.  I have just sent the funds for the auction, so I do not have the rifle in my possession yet.  I wish I had better computer skills, or I would post links and pictures, but I think I gave enough clues to get there.  
       Does anyone else have an opinion from my first paragraph concerning the weld on rail being screwed on or fitting the eariler four mount hole 556 rifles?

       Does anyone else have any experiece or knowledge with the rear sight mentioned in paragraph two.

EDIT Apparently this sight does not let me indent for paragraph change, but you get the picture

Thanks

Just looked up Blue Ridge Arsenal in Virginia and "Jim" is listed as the gunsmith.  Does anyone have any experience with his custom work on Sig 556 rifles?

I have seen posts in the past about the "Drum Sight USA" (Trommelvizier) before and always assumed they were just the SAN short rail sight or a close clone of one built by a different manufacturer. The main thing that keeps me away from it is the requirement to hammer out the rear screw sleeve. I figure if I'm going hammertime on my receiver then I might as well just get a weld-on rear at that point. And considering that that "Trommelvizier" sight is like 450 euros (or like 620 bucks) it would probably be cheaper and easier to just weld and repaint a domestically sourced rear sight from a parts kit.

I'm pretty much just going to keep my Aurora sights for now. Depending on how much I shoot this clone I may purchase one of the MFI flip up fronts and switch over to a dedicated red dot with no fixed rear sight, but that is pretty far down the line. As I said my main gripe with the Aurora sights is that the front has no flip up night sight... or at bare minimum the ability to swap the sight post for like an AR sight post with a big dot or something like that. My HK MP5/40 clone has a trijicon big dot front sight installed and I'm just so used to how its diopter sights look that I keep feeling like these Auroras are missing something.

I wish the Auroras were not their own special snowflake height and I could just put a SAN front sight on...

As for the rail, the 552 / 553 top rails that I've seen have hole positions that do not match the US 556 receiver. The rear hole looks like it lines up but the other holes don't. If you count rail slots up from the back of the receiver you'd see that the holes in the 552 / 553 rail are not in the right places. Plus from the look of them the rail is thinner and sits lower, which means the taller screw sleeves on the US receiver would need to be shimmed in order to get their screws to fit, and then you'd have screw heads sticking up into the rail trough.

I think the only way to get a 552 / 553 rail onto a US receiver is to pull the screw sleeves and weld it on. And if you are going that far why not just have a trunion transplant while you are at it and have a correct receiver. And by the time you've spent all that money you might as well just buy one of the 553 railed top pistols and be done with it.

Then again at this stage a lot of this is such nit pickery that only purists and hardcore fanatics will notice the difference.

This thread has me considering whether or not I should start saving for a Swiss Sig pistol (or preban rifle).

I've taken the leap and am working on a clone too....weeeeeeeee.

Prepare thy patience and open thy wallet for the god of abraham has forsaken you.

But in all seriousness, which clone road are you going to follow / what type of clone are you building?

Working on a 552 and yes, I know the addiction.

Starting with an original Swiss Arms lower and a 556 upper.


BTW, Crom thinks Abraham is a pussy

How deep down the  rabbit hole are you planning to go? Trunion transplant, 552 parts kit? Have you developed a road map yet?

In hindsight the one thing I wish I had from the beginning was a solid idea of where I was going and what it was going to take to get there. I could have saved a lot of time, money and hassle. But instead I have a box full of parts I'm planning to sell off here shortly that constitute a bunch of false starts, misdirection and just plain poor choices on my own little path.

Like you said farther back, folks don't know what a 55x looks like beyond the basics and with that in mind, I'm going for about a 70% replica.  There isn't a smith for 5hrs in any direction that could work even begin to work on real Sig let alone change the trunion and I do not have a shop.   I am, however considering the purchase of a 552 kit as the donor for hard to find parts. I realize the SAN HG will not fit w/o a trunion due to length but a spacer might fit the bill. The other options are cutting down Sig New Hampshire HG or MFI...based on your review and a few others, SIg NH might be the best of the two options.

Starting with a 556P upper should give me the option of working on the upper before obtaining the Form 1 as the lower is in a different location-on the 551. I suspect finding the proper top rail with loops with be an exceiting journey as will the FH. Gunbroker has both listed but at a premeium.  Finding the SAN stock is impossible outside of CH so I expect to use a Sig NH variant.