I don't need one, but I can't help the feeling recently that I want one. I am one of the AR15 members that doesn't hate shotguns, and have a few. Most often used are the 12" 870 SBS and the Franchi O/U for sporting clays. I'm in the suburbs and don't shoot shotguns much these days, more pistols. But I sold my old 3 gun shotgun so there's no semis in the stable at the moment.

I can't help shake the notion that I want a really nice benelli M2 or M4 to scratch that itch. There's money I could better spend elsewhere, and I won't shoot it much. But damn I want one.

Similar to yourself, I have an M4 that is somewhat of a project gun.  This photo was taken when I was just hanging stuff on it.  Excellent shotgun, which is a lot more comfortable to shoot than it's M1 entry gun brother.

Because Benelli M4.

That's what my wife was told when I got one back in 06 or 07.

Reason?  Because they are cool as fuck!

I'm trying to decide between the M4 and the new IWI TS12.

Absolutely loved mine in Fallujah. Made me a believer in the shotgun for a serious fighting weapon.

New phone doesn't have any old pics on it but ive posted me and my 1014 a few times.

Great shotgun

My M2 is great, the M4 must be greater.

It's a great shotgun.

Why?
Because it’s the most proven and reliable combat semi auto shotgun bar none.
They have the “cool factor”

Why not?
Stupid expensive
My braced Tac13 is more fun than my M4

do you like the Tac13? I see there are like 9 of them in the wild, and certainly the price is better than a Benelli.

I've owned a super nova tactical but that was forever ago. Was nice and ran well, but I know it's not on the same page as the M2 or M4.

@AvalonRifle that is pretty much my ideal set up. Light, rail, dot, seems like a powerhouse. How do you like that stock? My thought process is dumb, but it looks so damn cool. I've only ever shot traditional stocks and a few PG, but used to traditional for 3 gun and chest loading.

what's the going rate for one of these? Used would be fine.

Going rate used I've seen between $1200-1500 for unmodified guns. Closer to $1800-2000 for 922r compliant C-stock guns. The C-stock looks cool, but to be quite honest, it's not for everyone. Neither is the M4 for that matter. It's heavier than the average Benelli and just my opinion, but the gas system doesn't mitigate recoil as well as the Comfortech stocks.

If you plan to buy one I have a 922r compliant Surefire M80 railed forend for sale on the equipment exchange. I tracked down a different light mount and changed a couple of other 922r parts so I decided to let this go.

My advice, if you buy one, go easy on the mods. Do the 922r upgrades so you can get a full capacity mag tube on it. Beware of aftermarket parts like charging handles, bolt release buttons, and safeties. Try not to Gucci it out too much and it will remain incredibly reliable. Light mounts and sling swivels are OK, just don't get crazy with lightened bolts and that kind of stuff.

Here's an analogy of the aftermarket parts. It's like my Dad once told me about fishing lures. "90% of fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish." The same goes for lots of aftermarket parts.

@steviesterno16

This is the second M4 I've had that stock on.  I like it because it reduces the overall length of the gun for transport purposes.  However, it's only usable to fire from the hip when it is fully collapsed.  In that condition, you can't get your head down far enough to find the sights.  One notch in from fully extended works well for heavy outer clothing or with a plate carrier.

I'm OK with loading one or two rounds with a pistol grip stock.  Obviously, it makes tube loading much more difficult.

It has as Asgard Defense rail on it, which also utilizes a removable six round saddle.  Seven rounds in the tube, plus six in the saddle, plus two in the backup caddy makes for a heavy gun.  (11 pounds as you see it.)

Getting 922r compliance with the C-Stock means you need four parts for legality.  This particular gun has a Briley hammer, trigger, and disconnector; which along with the tube and a U.S. follower, provide the necessary parts.

EDIT:  I paid around $1,800 for the gun (new).  I have more than that in parts and accessories.

@AvalonRifle

thanks for the head's up. That is a heavy gun! I have an AR that I compete with that's about 12 pounds, and while it's heavy it's super steady. I am a good size dude and don't mind a heavy gun.

also how serious is the 922 stuff? I hear it mentioned but have never needed a gun that I had to switch parts around on to make legal. I do NFA and I'm up on all that, but I've never heard of anyone getting tagged for 922

@steviesterno16

Good question.  Personally I would rather not open that discussion on a public forum.  That gun garners a lot of attention at the range or at a match.

@bsp212

Link to rail?

If you're going to have a shotgun in the first place, why not have one of those?

saiga or vepr > m4.  mag fed, more compact, faster reloads.  if ya wanna run a heavy gun may as well have a buncha shells available...

when i see fudd type guns (shotguns with pg's) i just cant get into them.  saigas came in that way, but you can un-fudd them, then shorten length of pull/increase balance...  to me, THATS a cool shotgun.  if benelli could un-fudd it wiht new receivers etc i would be into it... other wise, hard pass

Absolutely love the Tac13. I put a mesa adapter with shock absorbing buffer and a SBA3 on it. Recoils is more manageable than my M4, its lighter ,  it holds 7 with one ghost loaded and they can be had for almost 1/3 the cost. What’s not to like.

Have you shot one before? Once you shoot them, there is no question as to if you need one, you'll know. :) Just picked one up myself a few months ago. I love mine. Carriercomp makes a great 7 round mag tube that is easy to install. I would highly suggest them if you pick one up.

Agreed.  I have a Ti CC tube on mine.

Did the M4 address the thumbnail ripping issue the M2 had?

Besides reloading a full magazine there's nothing that mag fed shotguns do better than a 1014.

Poor balance, fragile mags, safety in a less than ideal spot, and not great reliability(sure yours im sure has been flawless).

It sold this afternoon. They usually don't last long when they show up.

Probably one of the best (IMO) and proven shotguns in semi auto around.

That's the carrier.  I replaced  it with the Briley carrier and that problem is gone.

03RN is correct. ^^^

The M4 is a combat proven, reliable, conventional platform with aftermarket support and OEM spare parts availability from multiple vendors. This being said, the only differences between the issued gun and the version from the civilian market is the mag tube and the C-stock. These are easily obtainable, but really the only one that makes a big difference is the mag tube. You can swap this out with a heat gun and a pair of gloves. If you just have to have the C-stock, there's plenty of quality US made parts to swap for 922r compliance.

Also, the M4 doesn't have the diameter of a football. It's kinda big and unwieldily.

It's like comparing Kate Beckinsale to Rosie O'Donnell

I'll confirm this as well. About a year or so ago, I made a range trip with some friends, one of which had just bought some kind of really expensive Saiga clone "race gun" and wanted to "break it in". This gun was several thousand dollars and never fed a full mag without a failure. We tried multiple brands of ammo, not the cheap bulk Walmart crap, but good stuff like Winchester AA and Federal Top Gun. I'm not sure it's ever run reliably.

...is a good reason.

(Just completing the thread title).

I’m a fan, but the accessories are what will kill you. Add a Limbsaver to the M4 and it’ll cut down the recoil by about 40%.

@StrangerDanger damn that looks good! is it the limbsaver grip? the stock looks the same to me.

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/1301-tactical/
and
https://www.beretta.com/en-us/1301-comp/

Get one. I love my M4

ETA: Hogs hate it.

Unfortunately there hasn’t been a way to put a limb saver on without drilling/cutting your pad as you must have done there.
Until now ??

What's the best way to track down a C-stock?

Wait for a used one to pop up on the Benelli forum or the EE here, or go to Benelliparts.net and pay the $399 for a new one.

I had a 18” and loved it but when my Dept. authorized me to carry one on duty I switched to a 14”

Attached File

My LGS has two M4's that were apparently in a house fire. The trigger guards and stocks are melted. One has the collapsible stock, it's still useable but kind of ugly. They both are well used and looks like the factory magazine and block has been removed then replaced. They are asking $1000 out the door. Still seems kind of pricey.  $150 each for new trigger guard and stock and you've got a beater for $1300...

I wanted a M4 for the longest time before I finally decided to take the plunge. I bought a used one off Gunbroker last summer and paid $1350. I had said my max bid would be $1300 but obviously I went above that. I haven’t regretted buying it one bit.

So long as they didn't get too horribly hot that it damaged the hardness of the barrel and springs, I could probably rebuild them. They should be priced at around 500 dollars each though. It'll take several hundred dollars to replace all the damaged parts and possibly a refinishing.

Yea...They are a very dependable piece of equipment. You will not regret buying one...

I had one for awhile and had fun with it. Sold it for almost the same price I paid.  I used to go out on my front porch and shoot slugs as a stump that poked up about three feet out of the river. Blew the living shit out of that thing and it was mostly gone when I moved.

@AvalonRifle

What's the QD socket you on have the stock?
Thanks

To be fair, I’ve got both a M4 and Saiga 12. Neither has given me any trouble and ergos are more easily modified on the S12. The drum mags for the S12 are pretty bitchin, the 9-10 round stick mags are hilariously long, like a cartoon mag.  With 9 rounds in the Benelli capacity is pretty much a wash, but yeah reloads are way faster in the S12. Recoil management is much better in the Benelli. I hate shooting slugs through the Saiga.

@ankratz

IWC

Does require a little machine work to widen the slot in the stock.

Without a doubt.

Theres a whole lot of advantages to Saiga/Vepr 12s over most tube fed guns, and any tube fed semi, including the M4. For instance..

- Not reliant on fragile, and perishable wear parts (rubber o-rings/seals) that can degrade and leave you with a non functional firearm just due to age/chemical and UV exposure/dry rot etc. completely independent of use and round count. You can literally stash away a nib tube fed semi completely unfired, pull it out of the box some years later and have it fail on round 1 due to dry rotted o-rings/seals. Saiga/Vepr12 has zero rubber parts to fail.

- Unrivaled capacity. The Saiga/Vepr is king of open class competition. Show us a tube gun that can hold 20+ rnds..

- Ability to be radically shortened while maintaining full capacity. How many rounds can a 6" or 8" barreled M4 hold? Saiga/Vepr capacity is maintained at up to 20+ rnds at those barrel lengths.

- Foldable and collapsible stock. Saiga/Vepr maintains full functionality in the folded position. M4 will never have the ability to fold and neither will many if not all other tube fed semi's. Even if you could develop a folding mechanism similar to the law tactical on AR, you wouldnt be able to fire more than 1 rnd in the folded position.

So in essence with a Saiga/Vepr 12 you could have an 8" barreled semi with folding and collapsing stock and 20+ rnds on tap with the ability to nearly instant reload to full capacity (- 1 in chamber) or nearly instantly change ammo type at full capacity (- 1 in chamber).

To address your points specifically..

- poor balance? The majority of the weight in Saiga/Vepr 12 is at the center point (fwd to aft) creating a nearly neutral balance v.s. nose heavy far fwd weight of a loaded tube fed gun. The higher the capacity of the tube fed gun, the more exaggerated the effect becomes. For this reason the tube fed gun will without doubt point and transition between targets far less efficiently than a magazine fed gun.

- Fragile mags? Saiga/Vepr factory mags are military grade fiber reinforced polymer and are as tough or tougher than any polymer AR mag. Then there are CSSPECS nitrided steel magazines in case military grade fiber reinforced polymer isnt strong enough. The premier polymer 20 rnd drum from MD Arms can handle being run over by a truck as seen on video below..

Part 1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8WA2MjeBzU0

Part 2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zzU5naPQMbg

Part 3
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MF0SgmXHtgU

How would the Benelli M4's mag tube handle being run over by a truck multiple times or hit with 3lb hammer?

- Safety in less than ideal spot? Sure a bone stock Saiga 12 safety isnt as good as an AR and possibly a push button style but the Vepr 12 has been availible with ambi safety that is able to be manipulated with the thumb without breaking grip. There are also many aftermarket safeties that effectively accomplish the same thing for both Saiga 12 and Vepr 12.

- Not great reliability? Like this M4?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bzuC3SXXPl0

Or these M4's?
https://forums.benelliusa.com/topic/20397-new-benellli-m4-failure-to-feed-and-eject/

https://forums.benelliusa.com/topic/1678-benelli-m4-failure-to-fire/

https://forums.benelliusa.com/topic/7195-more-benelli-m4-reliability-issues/

And I can provide many many more..

No semi that can handle the cheapest, lowest powered bulk birdshot and also 3" magnum turkey loads without some compromise or destroying itself. The Saiga/Vepr 12's were designed to be military/leo shotguns from the get go and were never intended for use with cheap bulk pack birdshot. I have never seen a Saiga/Vepr 12 (multiple samples) fail to reliably function using full power buck or slugs as intended. The failures you hear of are people trying to cycle the absolute weakest, dirtiest and cheapest bulk pack trash they can get their hands on and I doubt any semi designed for defense would do any better consistently and even if they did..they still wouldnt have all of the advantages listed above ^. Did the .mil test the M4 with Winchester white box bulk pack?

Im not saying the M4 is a bad gun but it is far from the ultimate combat/defense/competition shotgun. The Saiga/Vepr 12 is simpler, more durably constructed with no rubber parts, as reliable and more capable in multiple categories. If it wasnt for the Russian stigma and was actually tested against the M4 and all factors were considered, I believe it would have and easily could have been the best choice for .mil.

I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously when your first video evidence of unreliable M4s is a dry gun using light target loads followed up with
"No semi that can handle the cheapest, lowest powered bulk birdshot and also 3" magnum turkey loads without some compromise or destroying itself. The Saiga/Vepr 12's were designed to be military/leo shotguns from the get go and were never intended for use with cheap bulk pack birdshot"

Over the last couple years i have not seen a single magazine fed shotgun go a 3 gun or shotgun comp without failing multiple times.

Just because all the weight is between the hands doesn't mean its better balanced.

Im actually not going to waste anymore time to rebute your cut and paste from saigaforums

Weird, my 16 year old 16,000 round M4’s fragile rubber o-rings are just fine. I know for a fact that you can drive over the titanium magazine tubes with a truck and not collapse the tube, I imagine the steel ones would hold up just as well. Then I can cycle low base value pack shit ammo and high dram 30 magnums without having to change anything. It just works and it isn’t beating the shit out of itself either.