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Posted: 12/30/2023 8:06:32 PM EDT
I found 28.0gr CFE to be MAX under 62gr Gold Dots. The head swipes were similar to Razorcore, the velocity was a stone toss from "M855", and there was almost or a little compression.
Hodgdon .223 maxes are 28.5gr under 50/53gr bullets of ~0.680" length vs the 62gr 0.810" Gold Dot and 55gr 0.740" FMJ. Has anyone else pushed this combo and found it to be limited by powder bulk/case capacity? |
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Posted: 12/30/2023 9:12:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: I found 28.0gr CFE to be MAX under 62gr Gold Dots. The head swipes were similar to Razorcore, the velocity was a stone toss from "M855", and there was almost or a little compression. Hodgdon .223 maxes are 28.5gr under 50/53gr bullets of ~0.680" length vs the 62gr 0.810" Gold Dot and 55gr 0.740" FMJ. Has anyone else pushed this combo and found it to be limited by powder bulk/case capacity? FMJBT's get Tac or H-335. |
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Posted: 12/30/2023 10:31:04 PM EDT
[#2]
I don’t use CFE, but what kind of velocity are you getting on the 62GD and what barrel length?
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Posted: 12/30/2023 10:36:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: I don't use CFE, but what kind of velocity are you getting on the 62GD and what barrel length? https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Range-Report-5-56-62gr-Gold-Dot-CFE223-Others-data-welcome-/42-527201/ |
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USA
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Posted: 12/30/2023 11:49:56 PM EDT
[#4]
What velocity are you looking for?
You can try a different powder. AA2520 comes to mind. |
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Posted: 12/31/2023 12:50:54 AM EDT
[#5]
3100fps would be nice, maybe 3050 during winter.
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Posted: 12/31/2023 8:15:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: 3100fps would be nice, maybe 3050 during winter. Speed doesn't impress me much, I would prefer small groups over velocity any day. Ball powders tend to be a problem on hot summer days, especially if your ammo is stored in a locked car or sitting in direct sunlight for long. IMO 2950 fps with 62 grain bullets from a 16" barrel is plenty hot. I wouldn't expect to get to 3100 from a 16". |
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USA
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Posted: 12/31/2023 10:19:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Speed doesn't impress me much, I would prefer small groups over velocity any day. Ball powders tend to be a problem on hot summer days, especially if your ammo is stored in a locked car or sitting in direct sunlight for long. IMO 2950 fps with 62 grain bullets from a 16" barrel is plenty hot. I wouldn't expect to get to 3100 from a 16". As a paper puncher I will trade speed for accuracy nearly every time. In the .223 5.56 I find better accuracy with the .223 level loads than the duplication of full military powder. Edit, this also usually keeps me from popping primers on a hot summer day with a ball powder. I had to learn that lesson once moving a safe load in my HBAR to my carbine on a hot day. The carbine in the heat of August did not like the load. It cost me a firing pin tip. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2023 11:50:27 AM EDT
[#8]
The Barnes CFE223 load data for both 55 gr TSX and TTSX bullets shows .223 max at 28.0 grains. The 55 gr TTSX bullet lists a lenth of 0.898" with an OAL of 2.180". They do not list 5.56 data with CFE 223 for either of the two 55 gr bullets. I assume that is because the load is already compressed at 28.0 gr (per the literature).
I load 28.0 gr of CFE223 with virgin Starline brass, CCI 41 primers at a COAL of 2.190". From my 16" Bushmaster, it averaged 3040 fps. That was around 80°F after a few warm up shots. The case heads and primers didn't give me any cause for pressure concerns. There were no excessive ejector swipes or primer issues. YMMV. 
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Posted: 12/31/2023 1:36:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Husky629: The Barnes CFE223 load data for both 55 gr TSX and TTSX bullets shows .223 max at 28.0 grains. The 55 gr TTSX bullet lists a lenth of 0.898" with an OAL of 2.180". They do not list 5.56 data with CFE 223 for either of the two 55 gr bullets. I assume that is because the load is already compressed at 28.0 gr (per the literature). I load 28.0 gr of CFE223 with virgin Starline brass, CCI 41 primers at a COAL of 2.190". From my 16" Bushmaster, it averaged 3040 fps. That was around 80 F after a few warm up shots. The case heads and primers didn't give me any cause for pressure concerns. There were no excessive ejector swipes or primer issues. YMMV.  Extruded powders crunch quite a bit before actual compression. How do ball powders behave? A quicker curve of resistance, given their density? My last measuring of case capacities with water was a little tedious. I think I'll charge with CFE, trickle to the mouth, and scrape the excess off. Then compare to the web thickness. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2023 4:02:00 PM EDT
[#10]
This combination is the only compressed load that I make, so I don't have any experience with others. I didn't notice any crunching sounds when seating the bullets. I didn't hear anything different with any of them as I started low (26.5) and worked up to 28.0 of CFE223. I also wasn't intentionally listening for it either.
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Posted: 1/2/2024 1:23:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bandit432]
[#11]
Speer says 27.8gr of CFE223 is max for a 62gr Gold Dot using 5.56 data and is not compressed. Link:
Speer 62gr Gold Dot 556 data Sorry, just saw you are quite aware of this in your old thread you referenced. Disregard. |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 1:49:46 AM EDT
[#12]
With Lake City cases made in this decade, 29.0gr fills up to the neck. I have fired 5 rounds of 28.5gr through a new Criterion barrel with no sign of peril. I may have chronograph data tomorrow.
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Posted: 2/19/2024 5:31:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony]
[#13]
55*F, low humidity. Chronograph reference at 15ft: AutoMatch .22LR from 20" Savage Mk1 - 1225fps.
Criterion 16" carbine. 28.5gr CFE223 Foulers - 3124, 3170, 3143, 3176, 3159 fps. 3136, 3157, 3173, 3170, 3149, 3195, 3148, 3185, 3178, 3149 fps. Avg - 3164, ES - 59, SD - 19. 29.0gr CFE223 - no perceptible powder shake. 3186, 3207, 3174, 3148, 3165 fps. Avg - 3176, ES - 59, SD - 22. The last one was with a CCI 400. It flattened a little like the 450s, but started to flow back against the firing pin. No swipes. The extractor pulled the rim a tiny bit on all cases. An H3 buffer may be recommended. I think 28.5gr will be my year-long max in more voluminous cases like LC. Now to test precision. |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 5:59:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: Criterion 16" carbine. 28.5gr CFE223 3124, 3170, 3143, 3176, 3159, 3136, 3157, 3173, 3170, 3149, 3195, 3148, 3185, 3178, 3149 fps. 29.0gr CFE223 - no perceptible powder shake. 3186, 3207, 3174, 3148, 3165 fps. The last one was with a CCI 400. It flattened a little like the 450s, but started to flow back against the firing pin. No swipes. The extractor pulled the rim a tiny bit on all cases. An H3 buffer may be recommended. I think 28.5gr will be my year-long max in more voluminous cases like LC. Now to test precision. I missed which 55gr FMJ? Hornady or other? I've got a lb of CFE223 that needs testing with 55gr hornady FMJBT w/c through a 16" Hanson barrel. Interested in precision results.... |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 6:31:56 PM EDT
[#15]
CFE 223 is one of the most temperature sensitive powder there is. CFE 223 is listed as 1.70 FPS per degree.
My go to load for 62 grain Speer Gold Dots was Alliant Reloader 12, but I'm down to my last lb of it. It was listed as 0.29 FPS per degree. So very stable. I'm currently working up loads for the 62 grain Gold Dots with TAC. My goal is to work up to a safe load somewhere between 25.0 and 26.2 grains of TAC, at summer temperatures. Quickload says 27.0 of TAC is about tops, and TAC's temperature sensitivity is listed as 0.91 FPS per degree. Not great but better than CFE 223, and I have 8 lbs of TAC, but less than lb of CFE 223 Accurate 2460 is listed as very stable @ 0.29 FPS per degree, and take charge weights similar to TAC. H4895 is also a good powder and listed as 0.23 FPS per degree. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/19/2024 8:23:32 PM EDT
[#16]
I understand looking for max velocity’s with these.
I use them as a hunting bullet with 2000mr pushing them because from all acounts it does it the best. The flipside is I don’t want a load that’s pushing into danger land in the wrong weather. Im not changing loads summer vs winter. Be realistic run your numbers in a balistic calculator see if u have enough velocity to achieve max desired distance these should expand to 2k- 2100 fps and be happy. Everyone is grown and can do what they want but if ur seeing case issues like that u gotta know its to hot. |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 8:39:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: I missed which 55gr FMJ? Hornady or other? I've got a lb of CFE223 that needs testing with 55gr hornady FMJBT w/c through a 16" Hanson barrel. Interested in precision results.... |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 9:15:20 PM EDT
[#18]
I am going to say that running TAC is probably going to be what you settle on. It's less temp sensitive, has what one would call a "variable burn rate" that depending on what's happening ranges between a slow H335 and Varget if you look at it from the point of view of how applicable it is to a weight range of bullets in a given caliber. I mean, with 62 grains, you can load up H335 and if you do it more consistently than lake city you should be able to get groups down as tight as the bullet will let you. All the 3 gun blasting ammo I crank out sits at about 1 moa with H335 and Hornady FMJBTs, or good enough to hit 10 inch plates at up to 550 yards, on first shot, consistently.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 4:25:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BobinNC: CFE 223 is one of the most temperature sensitive powder there is. CFE 223 is listed as 1.70 FPS per degree. My go to load for 62 grain Speer Gold Dots was Alliant Reloader 12, but I'm down to my last lb of it. It was listed as 0.29 FPS per degree. So very stable. I'm currently working up loads for the 62 grain Gold Dots with TAC. My goal is to work up to a safe load somewhere between 25.0 and 26.2 grains of TAC, at summer temperatures. Quickload says 27.0 of TAC is about tops, and TAC's temperature sensitivity is listed as 0.91 FPS per degree. Not great but better than CFE 223, and I have 8 lbs of TAC, but less than lb of CFE 223 Accurate 2460 is listed as very stable @ 0.29 FPS per degree, and take charge weights similar to TAC. H4895 is also a good powder and listed as 0.23 FPS per degree. Where are you getting this data? I’d love to see it. |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 6:57:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stevelish: Where are you getting this data? I'd love to see it. https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/temperature-sensativity-of-cfe-223.3969612/ |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 2:07:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/temperature-sensativity-of-cfe-223.3969612/ Nice, thanks. |
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Posted: 3/2/2024 6:37:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Cases sized fine.
It seems my chamber has slight annular ridges on the front half of the body. Can't feel it, but you could see the little amount of carbon form the pattern on the cases. That doesn't help extraction. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:06:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Hornady 2267s have a thicker jacket than M193, correct?
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