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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 3:04:19 PM EDT
First off, I’m well past the 500 round break-in period, but much of that was 115 Federal and CCI. I ran some 124 NATO with no difference in results. It seems to be multiple MKE mags (I have no H&K German ones yet). But to be honest, I’ve not put 500 NATO rounds through this gun yet. About the gun, its a registered SBR with a H&K/Choate side folder, and I got most of my 922 parts from a Timney MP5 trigger pack. I bought a real H&K 3rd gen ejector and the copper MP5 spring. I was careful to slide it in without any upward torque, so I’m not thinking I bent it out of spec on install. I took it out this morning with 3 mags, and nothing has changed. 150 rounds (100 were 124 Monarch NATO). Anyone have any ideas what to try next? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 3:18:31 PM EDT
[#1]
That blows, how much play does the mag have when inserted? What type of jams are you having? Assume gun well lubed. Try a German mag. If that’s not working you may have warranty it.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 3:27:39 PM EDT
[#2]
I would also number your mags and then try them again with the hottest ammo you have. Then, see if you can isolate the problem to any particular mag(s). As mentioned, also try another brand, especially German HK.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 4:26:17 PM EDT
[#3]
If it’s going back for warranty, every non factory part would have to be removed before it goes back. Have you tried the gun in 100% factory stock condition? GARY.
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Posted: 9/14/2024 4:33:01 PM EDT
[#4]
My ZENITH USA guns run perfectly with an ATI (Turkey) mag and an Hk Extractor, and I use the black springs.
with the KCI "Zenith" mags the third from the last round gets loose during the unloading cycle and causes a traffic jam. two rounds still in mag, the third from the last gets loose. Pretty much EVERY time with the KCI/Zenith magazines. Both a ZF5-P and a ZF-5... |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 7:50:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Is the extractor tight? If you hook it with a fingernail, can you wiggle it? Maybe try a black rifle extractor spring. It's hard to diagnose without knowing the malfunction. Is the chamber.cleaned? Carrier well lubed?
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Posted: 9/14/2024 9:33:24 PM EDT
[#6]
One of my three MKE guns had similar problems. Tried new extractors and springs and that helped a little. Then I found the ejector lever was dragging on the bolt. Cleaned it up with some light filing and it has been flawless since then.
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Posted: 9/14/2024 10:12:04 PM EDT
[#7]
What type of "jamming" issue are you having?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 10:12:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ARowner]
[#8]
The malfunction is either a loose spent case in the chamber preventing the next round from chambering, or less often, the case getting stuck above the bolt between the bolt and the cocking tube. Pretty much the normal complaints for MKE guns.
The extractor is tight and can’t be moved with a finger. If I put an empty case in, it’s snug and does not wiggle loose. I marked the mags and it happened in all 3 of them today. I have 7 total so I can try the others. The barrel chamber flutes are clear of anything obstructive. I can see the grooves clearly. Lube is a different story, because the manual only says wipe down exposed areas with a thin coat of lube. I usually put a coating of oil on each metal surface, but not enough to run while sitting in the safe. But the bolt, rollers, and moving parts get kind of lathered in it and patted with a patch to get the pooling or drips off. The parts have a wet look to them, but no dripping. This is probably more than needed? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2024 10:13:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Factory locking piece? Suppressed?
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Posted: 9/15/2024 11:15:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Does it run with the MKE trigger group in it?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2024 11:24:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Have you tried shooting it in it's stock configuration? I would try that and then isolate where the problems are coming from.
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Posted: 9/15/2024 5:02:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Replacing the ejector lever with the HK 3rd Gen version is what cured the FTE’s for my AP5-P. I left the factor extractor in place.
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Posted: 9/15/2024 5:47:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARowner: The malfunction is either a loose spent case in the chamber preventing the next round from chambering, or less often, the case getting stuck above the bolt between the bolt and the cocking tube. Pretty much the normal complaints for MKE guns. Exact problem I was having and cleaning up the factor ejector so it stopped dragging on the bolt resolved it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2024 12:31:51 PM EDT
[#14]
I’m starting to wonder about something. I cleaned it well and noticed it’s still a little rough to run the bolt back and forth with the charging handle. Looking in the ejection port, I see the finish is still spotty on the rails where the rollers run. I am starting to wonder if the break-in needs to be with another 400 or so rounds of NATO spec ammo. Even though I’m past the round count for break in, I wonder if the weaker ammo being most of it is not wearing things in properly.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2024 12:39:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triode: Exact problem I was having and cleaning up the factor ejector so it stopped dragging on the bolt resolved it. Mine doesn’t seem to be dragging the bolt, and I’m checking it by sticking my finger up the mag well while pulling the bolt back and pushing up on the ejector. It seems to have some slight air gap, because I can push it up a tiny bit along the way. There is no finish missing off the top of the tip. I can’t find it, but I think my old one did drag. |
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Posted: 9/16/2024 1:03:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARowner: I’m starting to wonder about something. I cleaned it well and noticed it’s still a little rough to run the bolt back and forth with the charging handle. Looking in the ejection port, I see the finish is still spotty on the rails where the rollers run. I am starting to wonder if the break-in needs to be with another 400 or so rounds of NATO spec ammo. Even though I’m past the round count for break in, I wonder if the weaker ammo being most of it is not wearing things in properly. I'd swap in another extractor spring and then try some HK mags. I'm pretty sure that I read here or heard from one of the HK youtube gurus that any FTF, FTE, Double Feed results in damage to your extractor spring. The only 2 full mags I was able to get to fire out of my Zenith K was with a new extractor spring and HK mags. You needed 922r parts to SBR it, that's done. I'd swap out the Timney trigger for MKE pack and see if that helps. I'm debating either contacting Timney and getting a refund out of them for my non-resetting Timney trigger or sending it to this guy: https://triggerwork.net/hk-91%2c-93%2c-94%2c-psg-1%2c-mp5%2c---all-clonesvariants%2c-mr556762%2c-cetme.html#untitled Edit you can test your extractor spring by snapping in a live cartridge under the extractor. If you shake it and the cartridge falls out, your extractor spring is bad. A good extractor spring will hold a live cartridge under the extractor when shook. Pulling the extractor spring from the bolt damages it. Putting more rounds down range with a bad extractor spring wont help anything. Since you're somewhat committed to it (SBR'd) you might research / get an RCM E-Bolt for it. You probably already have a RCM 80 degree locking piece, like I do. https://hkparts.net/rifle-smg-parts/rcm-hk-mp5-e-9mm-bolt-head/ Will it fix it? I don't know. |
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Posted: 9/16/2024 1:10:21 PM EDT
[#17]
You could try coating friction surfaces with flitz metal polish and working them smooth. Chamber mop with flitz spun by a drill in the chamber until smooth helps feeding and extraction. This worked well on some Century built rifles. Also filed burrs off some SAR1 rails prior to break in.
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Posted: 9/16/2024 4:34:09 PM EDT
[#18]
All of my MKE guns got the following:
HK Ejector HK Extractor spring HK Extractor I had similar issues you did, the above parts fixed both of mine and as of this point I would have no problems using either in a defensive situation. If the extractor isnt holding on to the casing long enough, that could explain why its not allowing the ejector to knock it out. The extractor may be worth a try, especially since you already SBR'ed it. Unfortunately, when you do, you'll need to re-do the spring as well. |
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Posted: 9/16/2024 5:49:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Is the recoil spring guide in straight and seated into the end cap of the Choate stock?
I had a Choate stock for a reverse stretch and was confused as to why when I used it it had ejection problems. The recoil spring would not sit into the small dimple and hold it straight - it was sort of crooked. I used a drill to open up the pocket/dimple so the recoil rod would fit easily and straight - it fixed is. |
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Posted: 9/16/2024 6:12:50 PM EDT
[#20]
How does it work with the stock ejector ? I thought the gen 3 was for the F bolt .
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Posted: 9/16/2024 6:18:27 PM EDT
[#21]
had a very expensive dakota tactical that would not go thru a mag with out jamming , even after return to cust svc?? dropped in this bolt a few years ago and has been flawless.
https://atlanticfirearms.com/m-a-d-bolt-head |
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Posted: 9/16/2024 6:27:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wiskey_33: Factory locking piece? Suppressed? This fixed mine. |
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Posted: 9/16/2024 7:53:01 PM EDT
[#23]
my full size shot great supressed or not right from the start. i got some monarch steel and it doesnt really like that, got fte on a few mags. brass shoots perfect. probably have 400 rounds or so in it
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2024 10:44:19 PM EDT
[#24]
My Ap5-p is also giving me fits. Jamming all the time. Was thinking of getting a rcm mp5-evhead. Is for the answers!
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2024 11:19:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Sorry to hear you are all having problems with your AP5-Ps, even with HK parts installed. Just an FYI, my HK SP5K-PDW is full of HK parts and it has never jammed even though it has thousands of rounds through it.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2024 11:30:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Having the same problem with my K
Ordered the rcm e bolt and 80deg Hopefully this fixes it |
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Posted: 9/17/2024 12:08:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: My Ap5-p is also giving me fits. Jamming all the time. Was thinking of getting a rcm mp5-evhead. Is for the answers! Are you shooting suppressed? I changed out my locking piece to the HK #28 and shoot 147gr and it runs like a top suppressed and unsuppressed. |
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Posted: 9/17/2024 1:16:11 PM EDT
[#28]
what sub ammo are you guys shooting? i have the 80 locking piece and use an omega 9k but it doesnt like syntec or flat nose 147grn
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2024 2:36:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pogmothoin: had a very expensive dakota tactical that would not go thru a mag with out jamming , even after return to cust svc?? dropped in this bolt a few years ago and has been flawless. https://atlanticfirearms.com/m-a-d-bolt-head I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2024 3:08:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HK-Slap]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? . |
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Posted: 9/17/2024 3:42:33 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 9/18/2024 5:40:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK-Slap: Sorry to hear you are all having problems with your AP5-Ps, even with HK parts installed. Just an FYI, my HK SP5K-PDW is full of HK parts and it has never jammed even though it has thousands of rounds through it. This isn't the first time you've come into an AP-5 thead and did this. This isn't GD, it's a tech thread. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 6:06:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: Originally Posted By pogmothoin: had a very expensive dakota tactical that would not go thru a mag with out jamming , even after return to cust svc?? dropped in this bolt a few years ago and has been flawless. https://atlanticfirearms.com/m-a-d-bolt-head I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? That looks to be a different company. Rim Country Manufacturing (RCM) makes the E bolt which is sold by HK Parts. https://rimcountrymfg.com/product/rcm-mp5-e-9mm-bolt-head/ Moore Advanced Dynamics (MAD) makes the MAD MAX bolt, which is sold by Atlantic Firearms. https://madkc.com/ |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 6:07:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog1911: This isn't the first time you've come into an AP-5 thead and did this. This isn't GD, it's a tech thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog1911: Originally Posted By HK-Slap: Sorry to hear you are all having problems with your AP5-Ps, even with HK parts installed. Just an FYI, my HK SP5K-PDW is full of HK parts and it has never jammed even though it has thousands of rounds through it. This isn't the first time you've come into an AP-5 thead and did this. This isn't GD, it's a tech thread. Ignore the TROLL. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2024 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog1911: This isn't the first time you've come into an AP-5 thead and did this. This isn't GD, it's a tech thread. Yes it is. The takeaway is that if y'all would have bought the real thing, y'all wouldn't be having all these issues. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 10:36:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK-Slap: Yes it is. The takeaway is that if y'all would have bought the real thing, y'all wouldn't be having all these issues. There’s at least one other thread here you’re shitting up. Looking forward to the mods HK slapping you right off of this website. |
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Posted: 9/18/2024 10:52:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK-Slap: Yes it is. The takeaway is that if y'all would have bought the real thing, y'all wouldn't be having all these issues. |
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Posted: 9/28/2024 7:51:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Surprised that no one has mentioned bolt gap yet.
Have you checked it? A YouTube search can show you how. Also, did this gun have failures out of the box before you changed any parts? I agree with what others have said about extractor springs. One jam and you should probably replace them. That part sucks. Lastly have you tried sending it back for warranty repair? If it fails with all factory parts, Atlantic should fix it. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/28/2024 9:22:58 AM EDT
[#39]
I would warranty this one, way too much time and $ chasing a fix that may never come. It seems the P model has more issues than the full size, I have a 5 MKE, 2 full sized, 2M, one P. All run, but can be mag sensitive, tried a US 15 rd. Works most of the time but MKE and HK mags work 100%. I would send it back.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2024 11:42:21 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mini14jac: Surprised that no one has mentioned bolt gap yet. Have you checked it? A YouTube search can show you how. Also, did this gun have failures out of the box before you changed any parts? I agree with what others have said about extractor springs. One jam and you should probably replace them. That part sucks. Lastly have you tried sending it back for warranty repair? If it fails with all factory parts, Atlantic should fix it. This… bolt gap is the first thing that should be checked before any parts are swapped. |
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Posted: 9/30/2024 1:17:02 PM EDT
[#41]
yesterday I took the Zenith's out again and tested a few mag options.
I took a Zenith KCI Brand New Magazine a "Hybrid" Hk Tube, with the Zenith KCI follower and spring... and KCI floor plate and retainer a Zenith KCI tube with an HKP red follower and Hk Spring, an ATI//MKE mag ETS polymer mag AC-Unity Polymer Mag so the Zenith Mag was a miserable failure as usual. the Hybrid Hk Tube mag with KCI internals functioned 100% the Zenith Tube with aftermarket follower and Hk Spring failed miserably The ATI functions flawlessly the ETS Polymer mag functioned 99% there was a fail to fire in the middle you can't blame the mag for that. the AC-unity had no failures. so the Zenith mag feed lips on every one of the 6 that I have the feedlips are .020" wider than the Hk or ATI feed lips. also .030 higher from the latching surface to top of the feed lips and there is evidence of the bolt hitting them on every mag. Need to make a mandrel of the Hk profile and see if I can reform these to match I did tap some down with a body hammer and it didn't work then either. So I did the initial testing with Federal 124 Gr FMJ which has historically worked fine. I loaded the Hk Tube with 115 WWB and it worked fine that ammunition has been historically fail prone. These two guns a ZF-5 and a ZF5-P also have a german extractor and a Black Extractor spring and the Ejectors are OEM. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2024 4:58:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HK-Slap: Sorry to hear you are all having problems with your AP5-Ps, even with HK parts installed. Just an FYI, my HK SP5K-PDW is full of HK parts and it has never jammed even though it has thousands of rounds through it. Who cares really, if you have no useful info then why even bother commenting, this isn’t a flex your HK thread. With that said I’d put the factory trigger pack in and try. I had issues with my AP5-P after the 500 rnd mark, changed out the same 3 parts, extractor, extractor spring and ejector with HK parts and have gone past 4k rnds without a malfunction. Definitely put everything back to stock with the exception of the 3 HK parts and see what happens. |
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Posted: 10/11/2024 5:18:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lil_Sig]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By osprey21: You've make your point, and the "takeaway" is.. if you continue down this path you'll be blocked from this subforum. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By osprey21: Originally Posted By HK-Slap: Yes it is. The takeaway is that if y'all would have bought the real thing, y'all wouldn't be having all these issues. I've always liked you osprey21.  And for what it's worth. I love HK stuff. Only I ain't paying $2000 plus dollars on a simi auto SP5 or SP5K. So every now and then someone has to fix a AP5 or AP5-P or warranty one. In for updates OP. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2024 2:30:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wubaru]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: Originally Posted By pogmothoin: had a very expensive dakota tactical that would not go thru a mag with out jamming , even after return to cust svc?? dropped in this bolt a few years ago and has been flawless. https://atlanticfirearms.com/m-a-d-bolt-head I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? Well, that mad bolt did not fix the issue. Same thing happened where the first 7 cases ejected nicely and then the brass dribbled out just forwards a bit and then bam….it jams to the point i have to take it all apart. I probably will just end up buying a rcm complete bolt carrier and bolt since it isn’t the smoothest. It was a FTE on good milspec MEN 124 9mm. It seems like the bolts starts to lose speed. I will try to see if the ejector is dragging. |
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Posted: 10/22/2024 11:58:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: Well, that mad bolt did not fix the issue. Same thing happened where the first 7 cases ejected nicely and then the brass dribbled out just forwards a bit and then bam….it jams to the point i have to take it all apart. I probably will just end up buying a rcm complete bolt carrier and bolt since it isn’t the smoothest. It was a FTE on good milspec MEN 124 9mm. It seems like the bolts starts to lose speed. I will try to see if the ejector is dragging. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wubaru: Originally Posted By Wubaru: Originally Posted By pogmothoin: had a very expensive dakota tactical that would not go thru a mag with out jamming , even after return to cust svc?? dropped in this bolt a few years ago and has been flawless. https://atlanticfirearms.com/m-a-d-bolt-head I just bought one this morning. Is this the same as the MP5-e on the hkparts website? Well, that mad bolt did not fix the issue. Same thing happened where the first 7 cases ejected nicely and then the brass dribbled out just forwards a bit and then bam….it jams to the point i have to take it all apart. I probably will just end up buying a rcm complete bolt carrier and bolt since it isn’t the smoothest. It was a FTE on good milspec MEN 124 9mm. It seems like the bolts starts to lose speed. I will try to see if the ejector is dragging. @Wubaru I would recommend sending it in for Warranty if it is giving you problems to this point. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2024 11:03:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Send it back, you have done your part, sometimes you just need to warranty it.
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FL, USA
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Posted: Today 10:11:33 AM EDT
[#47]
I know it’s been a few, but I’ve not been out to try it with different ammo yet. I did buy a feeler gauge, and found that the 0.014” slipped in with little resistance, but was not loose. The 0.015” was tougher to push in, and 0.016” pushed the bolt forward to force its way in. I assume that all points to having a 0.014” gap from the bolt head to the carrier, when locked in battery.
I hope to try some 124 WIN NATO this weekend. I can run hundreds of Federal AE and have maybe one jam. Flat point 115 is a no-go, and believe it or not, 147 HST feeds all the way to the last round, which dives. I may need to buy at least 1 HK mag and test it. |
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