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Posted: 5/27/2025 1:29:45 PM EDT
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Found this going through my late father’s stuff, he would have been 12 at the time so I’m assuming it was saved as part of a school project.Attached File |
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Cool find! Taiwan (Republic of China aka Formosa) produced the M14 as the Type 57 starting in 1969. Looks like the article is basically saying the U.S. provided them with the technical data package for the rifle, which I believe is correct. Of course there is no “AK-7”. Some sources claim Springfield Armory Inc. obtains some of their M1A parts from Wayne Machine in Taiwan as well. https://www.m14forum.com/threads/taiwan-type-57-rifle.90526/ |
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A long time ago I was in the LGS looking at M1A's, I can't recall if it they were Norinco or Polytech, a customer in the shop came up to me an whispered, "if you want one, I have a NM Springfield that I'm willing to part with". After a 30 minute drive, I was the proud owner of a National Match Springfield M1A at less cost than the foreign made rifles being sold. |
America is at that awkward stage, it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards....Claire Wolfe
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Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. I don’t know about the subject of article in first post. The Taiwanese guns aren’t seen here. Chicom’s semi auto clones imported here I’ve always understood to have good receivers but soft bolts leading to issues. Replace with USGI bolt and good to go. |
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Nationalist Chinese was referring to Taiwan government at that time. Nationalist Chinese government led by Chiang Kai-shek retreated to the island after losing Chinese Civil War against Communist Chinese Party in 1949. Formosa was the Dutch colonial era name. Taiwan bought H&R equipment and tooling to make indigenous T57 (M14) and T57A1 (M14A1/E2). It was interesting read on that news said M14 was the best at that time. In fact the Americans were transiting to M16 and trying to dump the M14 production to Taiwan that had nothing but old WWII and pre-WWII small arms at the time. The average Asian men in general were shorter than Caucasians, M14 was definitely not the best choice for Taiwan. Less than 10 years later, Taiwan also developed its own M16 style with piston upper (T65) that proof M14 was not the wonder rifle Americans sold to them merely a decade ago. Taiwan didn't completely phase out T57 until 1990s. Enough of the history. Let's see some fun T57A1 in full auto.  ??57? & 57?? M14 & M14E2 Authorized Taiwan Made Version |
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Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. Grossly over hyped. A few early ones had issues. The vast majority are solid rifles though sometimes a bit rough around the edges. Rear sights are best replaced, sometimes a better stock. I finally put a real deal M14 flash hider on mine but that was for cosmetic reasons. |
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I ran across a Norinco M14 in a small local shop about 10-15 years ago. I think I paid $550 for it. I put it in a GI walnut stock and replaced the dummy flash hider with a USGI flash hider. This rifle shoots as well as my Springfield M1A. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. I think those were the Norinco M14S's that were imported some years ago. Bolts were found to be a little soft on some rifles. People in the know swapped the Norinco bolt for a USGI M14 bolt and all was good. The Norinco M14S were coming in about the same time the Norinco 1911's came in. The 1911's are very good pistols. I have one I bought for $250 long ago. I cut the slide for Bomar sights. That slide was made from tough stuff. Broke the first HSS cutter and had to get carbide cutters to cut the slide. After parkerizing, the slide turned out black as the ace of spades. After cutting the frame for a beavertail safety, it turned out just as black when parkerized. For a time, custom 1911 smiths would only do custom work on Colt, Springfield Armory and Norinco frames and slides. |
I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me and say "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
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Originally Posted By dusty3030: I don’t know about the subject of article in first post. The Taiwanese guns aren’t seen here. Chicom’s semi auto clones imported here I’ve always understood to have good receivers but soft bolts leading to issues. Replace with USGI bolt and good to go. This. They are some of the best receivers out there. Bolts are absolute crap. Screw on a GI barrel and head space a GI bolt and you're in business. |
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Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. While there were a few issues of them developing excessive headspace due to soft or out of spec bolts (far, far less than the issue was overblown to be), the main issue was that the Red Chinese M14s came over headspaced for 7.62 NATO not .308 (exacerbating the issue was that many of the receivers were marked ".308"). When the guns would swallow .308 headspace gauges people freaked out and declared all of the Chinese M14s to be dangerous junk. |
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Originally Posted By TommyChong: While there were a few issues of them developing excessive headspace due to soft or out of spec bolts (far, far less than the issue was overblown to be), the main issue was that the Red Chinese M14s came over headspaced for 7.62 NATO not .308 (exacerbating the issue was that many of the receivers were marked ".308"). When the guns would swallow .308 headspace gauges people freaked out and declared all of the Chinese M14s to be dangerous junk. Originally Posted By TommyChong: Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. While there were a few issues of them developing excessive headspace due to soft or out of spec bolts (far, far less than the issue was overblown to be), the main issue was that the Red Chinese M14s came over headspaced for 7.62 NATO not .308 (exacerbating the issue was that many of the receivers were marked ".308"). When the guns would swallow .308 headspace gauges people freaked out and declared all of the Chinese M14s to be dangerous junk. I had both Polytech and Norinco M14's. Great rifles. The bolt issue was internet hype. Has anyone ever posted a failure due to this? Not that I could ever find in 25 years of looking. |
| I just traded for a polytech m14s with a gi stock, scout mount, gi handguard and gi flash bayo lug hider. Came with the mystery wood factory stock hand guard and a fiberglass one that needs finishing. |
“‘It ain’t dying I’m talking about, it’s living,’ Augustus McCrae
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Originally Posted By 0351: I had both Polytech and Norinco M14's. Great rifles. The bolt issue was internet hype. Has anyone ever posted a failure due to this? Not that I could ever find in 25 years of looking. Originally Posted By 0351: Originally Posted By TommyChong: Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. While there were a few issues of them developing excessive headspace due to soft or out of spec bolts (far, far less than the issue was overblown to be), the main issue was that the Red Chinese M14s came over headspaced for 7.62 NATO not .308 (exacerbating the issue was that many of the receivers were marked ".308"). When the guns would swallow .308 headspace gauges people freaked out and declared all of the Chinese M14s to be dangerous junk. I had both Polytech and Norinco M14's. Great rifles. The bolt issue was internet hype. Has anyone ever posted a failure due to this? Not that I could ever find in 25 years of looking. |
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I had a polytech back in the early 90’s. The serrations on the receiver for the elevation knob were crap. So I decided to mount a scope. The hole and notch were misaligned and I had the modify the mount to get it to fit. When the 94 ban went through I sold it for a good price. |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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I bought a used Norinco for about $600 about year 2000. I stripped it and sent the receiver to Smith Enterprise and had them install my USGI bolt and barrel. It’s a great rifle. Wardawg. It’s the tiger stripe one. The stock I got from WamoCamo when they was around. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter: Ron Smith of Smith Enterprises described the bolt issue not as a hardness issue, but rather a geometry issue in the lug engagement. Keeping in mind that he did sell a service that included installation of a USGI surplus bolt. I remember Fulton Armory being much louder and less than kind about the "issue" (and how willing they were to fix it). I bought my Polytech around 2002. I then spent 10 years collecting USGI parts. Then, after a business meeting, I made the mistake of stopping by Geoff Corn's (before he left Indiana) to have my headspace checked. Fifteen minutes later things escalated to a full build. Probably good for my pocketbook he moved to Colorado. |
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I have a Polytech M14 that was worked over by Smith Enterprises. I bought it off someone when it only had about 500 rds. I sent the rifle off to SEI to verify that it was worked on by them, perform an overall inspection and that it had their chrome lined barrel (P/N 2027) that was made to shoot heavier 7.62 rounds. It has a lot of SEI parts. I have been the fence about selling it as I don’t shoot it much. Cool rifle, though! Attached File |
Change is the only constant. - Heractilus
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Ive had mine since 2008. H Through all the guns I've sold when money was tight, it stayed. Mine is all original. Never had any bolt issues. Its rare but sometimes the op rod jumps out of the receiver on recoil. I need to send it in for rework. It is an absolute tack driver. I find myself shooting it a lot more than anything else I own. |
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Originally Posted By Villafuego: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/55482/T57_M14-3728410.jpg |
I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me and say "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
Exceptionally Thick Member
Joined:
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EE: 100% (22)
NM, USA
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I’d love to see Taiwanese forged receivers imported someday. Fulton built a very nice, all USGI (save the Norinco receiver) M14 for me years ago. Great shooter. I am now curious about the headspace issue on PRC M14s. An in spec 7.62 NATO rifle will swallow a .308 FIELD gage (stole this from Forster’s website): Attached File |
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Originally Posted By SSG-69: I am now curious about the headspace issue on PRC M14s. An in spec 7.62 NATO rifle will swallow a .308 FIELD gage (stole this from Forster’s website): https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/597879/IMG_7174_jpeg-3783676.JPG |
The voices in my head say I’m just being paranoid
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This was written six months after the M16A1 was adopted, but “U.S. officials have in- sisted the M-14 is the best rifle for the close combat, quick-fire type of war against guerillas in Southeast Asia”
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If you aren't representing Jesus in a way that makes people want to hang out with you, you're doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: That article is garbage-tier journalism. Has there ever been any other kind? It's always been propaganda, against the Spanish, the Germans, the japs, the Germans again, for the Soviets, for the Communists, against the Soviets, for the Soviets again, etc. |
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From what I’ve gleaned about the Chinese made M14s, this is a list of things that should be checked. Done can be fixed by the owner, one, depending on your skill level, may need a gunsmith. 1. Bolt issue is over blown. I’ve not heard of a Chinese M14 blowing up due to the bolt. However, it you’re a reloader, the excessive headspace may shorten the already short care life of the brass fired in a Polytech/Norinco. Fix is to replace the bolt. Winchester made bolts are probably the easiest to do, with TRW bolts being more difficult. 2. Chinese made springs are not the best. The recoil spring is a bit undersized in diameter and length. Fix is a simple replacement with a new one. 3. The flat spring in the elevation knob may be weak, causing an inability to hold zero. Fix is to replace the knob. DO NOT replace the knob with another knob marked “WCE”. You might be getting another Chinese knob. Garand knobs work, and may be a bit cheaper. 4. Hammer and trigger may be soft. Fix is to replace with USGI. Garand parts will work. While you’re at it, replace the trigger pin and spring. 5. An original Polytech/Norinco stock is probably “Chu” wood. With is soft and ugly. Fix is to replace. With a USGI stock, one must add either a “popsicle stick”, or a blob of epoxy, in the stock where the disconnected lock pin is. USGI stocks are cut for full auto parts, and the Chinese connector lock pin is shorter than USGi, and the extra space of the USGI stock can allow the connector lock pin to walk out , and the gun to have problems. |
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Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. Great receivers but some had soft bolts iirc. Swap in a USGI bolt and check headspace and drive on was a thing in the 90’s with them. They had some other qiriks too, soft wood stocks that were nicknamed chu wood. metric threads on the front of the barrel that forced you to keep the chinese parts (gas lock and FH nuts iirc) unless you did a USGI barrel swap. They forged. Those were the Norinco and Polyteks but I thought those came out of Mainland. |
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Originally Posted By MarkHatfield: I remember reading of them having dangerous headspace. As I recall there were some serious issues with the bolt heat treat. And maybe some soft receivers too? |
ProTip: Never pick a fight with a tree planter. He swings a hoedad for 9 hours a day, carries 30-40 pounds of seedlings on his back, and has 12-14 friends just like him hiding out on the other side of the junk butt pile. They will fuck your shit up.
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The Republic of China, aka Taiwan, manufactured its version of the M14, the T57, from 1969 until 1979. Total production was 146,596 T57 rifles. The T57 was replaced by the T65 (Taiwan's M16 copy) starting in 1976. The T57 was used in Taiwan Army recruit training as late as 1997. There was no collaboration between Taiwan and the People's Republic of China regarding the T57. |
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Originally Posted By farmer-dave: I have a polytech , it will take a .308 no go gauge. I honestly haven't shot it much since I found that out, but I know 7.62 is probably fine to shoot in it. I keep thinking I should send it to someone to make it right, but not sure who at this point. |
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. - Dwight D. Eisenhower
| I have an IDE polytech side stamped gun. I've owned it for many years but haven't shot it much at all. I want to change that. But the stories of soft bolts and such are in the back of my head. On one hand I think I should just shoot the gun and not worry about it but it would be nice to get it checked out for piece of mind. |
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Originally Posted By Surfgun: I had a polytech back when I was in University, it made me nervous as while manipulating the action the operating rod would occasionally come off the track. Sent it down the road for cash between University and starting a career. Anyway, that's part of the reason the whole op rod dismount interface was redesigned on the real M14 rifles to be held in place by the connector assembly. |
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