User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2024 12:07:02 AM EDT
They have not put out any new civilian products for a while. Unless I have been sleeping and have missed something? The FLIR Breach has been around since 2018 and they have not updated it. Still has 320 resolution. Do they just not care? |
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Posted: 7/23/2024 8:06:10 AM EDT
[#1]
More importantly why haven't they address the myriad of problems with the Breach, while also raising MAP and wholesale prices to laughable levels. I believe they are stuck in 2019 when their wasn't many other choices... RH25 and MH25 units blow the breach out of water, from a manufacturer that is responsive and with it.
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AUS
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Posted: 7/23/2024 8:23:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: More importantly why haven't they address the myriad of problems with the Breach, while also raising MAP and wholesale prices to laughable levels. I believe they are stuck in 2019 when their wasn't many other choices... RH25 and MH25 units blow the breach out of water, from a manufacturer that is responsive and with it. FLIR have been a disgrace. |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 2:38:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Didn't they pull anything that has a reticle from the market?
Screw those bootlickers (to be fair the boot clearly offers much better margins than us plebians). |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 3:10:05 AM EDT
[#4]
I'd wager the civ market is not worth doing to them. They've got all the whiz-bang .Mil contracts.
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Posted: 7/24/2024 9:39:18 AM EDT
[#5]
I see FLIR products on the walls of most hvac and electrical wholesale houses.
Probably a bigger market then civilian hunting ir optics 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 2:13:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lowdown3: More importantly why haven't they address the myriad of problems with the Breach, while also raising MAP and wholesale prices to laughable levels. I believe they are stuck in 2019 when their wasn't many other choices... RH25 and MH25 units blow the breach out of water, from a manufacturer that is responsive and with it. Good points. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 9:26:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Although they didn’t entirely abandon the outdoor market, they certainly haven’t produced any new products intended for the outdoor recreational user for a while, but it is more complicated than whether they care or not.
Their annual reports are publicly available. You may be surprised that their total sales in “Defense” have been going down year over year with sales are growing in other areas. As for their price increases, as we all know, this is happening to every company across all American industries. In 2023 they call out inflation, increases in labor costs, higher interest rates, etc. requiring price increases affecting their competitiveness. IMHO unfortunately it doesn’t take very much market research etc. to dissuade any interest in developing new products for the civilian outdoor market which is heavily saturated with lower cost systems from overseas when your costs are rising unpredictably. I'm not a FLIR "apologist". It just is what it is. I do hope they will jump back into the civilian sector with new products as FLIR is one of our American-born brands with monster name recognition like Kleenex or Windex. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 9:59:31 AM EDT
[#8]
I would think an updated breach would be a winner. Would a 640 sensor fit in the existing housing?
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Posted: 7/25/2024 3:07:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mah827: I would think an updated breach would be a winner. Would a 640 sensor fit in the existing housing? That product is essentially the Armasight Sidekick 640. The Breach was originally an Armasight product that became a FLIR product when they acquired them. They parted ways a few years ago. I don't expect that FLIR will do anything with the Breach. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 4:50:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Daggertt]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC_Will: Although they didn't entirely abandon the outdoor market, they certainly haven't produced any new products intended for the outdoor recreational user for a while, but it is more complicated than whether they care or not. Their annual reports are publicly available. You may be surprised that their total sales in "Defense" have been going down year over year with sales are growing in other areas. As for their price increases, as we all know, this is happening to every company across all American industries. In 2023 they call out inflation, increases in labor costs, higher interest rates, etc. requiring price increases affecting their competitiveness. IMHO unfortunately it doesn't take very much market research etc. to dissuade any interest in developing new products for the civilian outdoor market which is heavily saturated with lower cost systems from overseas when your costs are rising unpredictably. I'm not a FLIR "apologist". It just is what it is. I do hope they will jump back into the civilian sector with new products as FLIR is one of our American-born brands with monster name recognition like Kleenex or Windex. As I posted previously, my beef with FLIR isn't about any of that though. They didn't abandon the civilian outdoor market. They actively pulled any thermal optics with reticles off the market, leaving non-weapon thermals on the market (and then doing what you described above). They abandoned the civilian defense/hunting market, and apparently not because of economics of supplying thermals to that market segment (they were still happy to sell us spotting devices). Smells like ideology to me. I read elsewhere that they discontinued weapon-mounted thermals a couple days after the Las Vegas shooting, but didn't announce it until after the holiday season later that year. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 5:50:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TNVC_Will]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Daggertt: All of that may be true. and it likely applies to other companies as well. As I posted previously, my beef with FLIR isn't about any of that though. They didn't abandon the civilian outdoor market. They actively pulled any thermal optics with reticles off the market, leaving non-weapon thermals on the market (and then doing what you described above). They abandoned the civilian defense/hunting market, and apparently not because of economics of supplying thermals to that market segment (they were still happy to sell us spotting devices). Smells like ideology to me. I read elsewhere that they discontinued weapon-mounted thermals a couple days after the Las Vegas shooting, but didn't announce it until after the holiday season later that year. To be honest, I have no idea why they decided to ditch their scopes, but it's likely mostly due to financial reasons as their sales have been moving into industrial applications etc. I don't know if the Vegas shooting played a role but that happened in 2017 and FLIR shut down that division in 2020. ETA: And when they shut it down it was a total surprise. Nobody knew it was coming including all of the employees they let go 
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 6:05:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Probably supporting B2C business vs B2B business. B2C business definitely has not been a part of Teledyne. They've always been enterprise business (B2B) and I wouldn't be surprised that divesting/abandoning B2C business was a term for the FLIR acquisition ('21).
Teledyne makes state-of-the-art sensors (and many we don't know about) - case and point, Teledyne SI in Thousand Oaks, CA. They went on acquisition spree with e2v, Dalsa, etc....and lastly FLIR. They wanted to expand imaging business beyond Scientific Imaging, but not get into consumer market. SI has high-end bespoke sensors. FLIR Systems acquisition fills in the low/lower end sensor market. Appears that Thousand Oaks is now the HQ, which supports my point here - imaging systems became the core business. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 6:07:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC_Will: To be honest, I have no idea why they decided to ditch their scopes, but it's likely mostly due to financial reasons as their sales have been moving into industrial applications etc. I don't know if the Vegas shooting played a role but that happened in 2017 and FLIR shut down that division in 2020. ETA: And when they shut it down it was a total surprise. Nobody knew it was coming including all of the employees they let go The Vegas connection is tenuous at best. They also got hit with huge ITAR violation fines in 2018. Again, word on the block (in this case, snipershide) is that some FLIR products ended up on the wrong end of our boys and got some of our guys killed. But I have no additional info about that and again, it was 2 years prior to the decision. I am still skeptical that it was a purely financial decision since they discontinued weapon mounted civilian stuff but kept non-weapon mounted civilian stuff. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 7:00:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Daggertt: Fair enough. The Vegas connection is tenuous at best. They also got hit with huge ITAR violation fines in 2018. Again, word on the block (in this case, snipershide) is that some FLIR products ended up on the wrong end of our boys and got some of our guys killed. But I have no additional info about that and again, it was 2 years prior to the decision. I am still skeptical that it was a purely financial decision since they discontinued weapon mounted civilian stuff but kept non-weapon mounted civilian stuff. Your last point has merit although the last outdoorsy product they released was the SCION and that was in 2019 so they are probably just on cruise control with those products as they are easier to support/service vs scopes. |
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Posted: 7/31/2024 8:29:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Have ya'll seen the prices they slashed recently on their website?
Having owned one, the Scion OTM366 for $900 is a steal. They slashed prices on a BUNCH of handheld thermals. |
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Posted: 7/31/2024 8:47:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0627Devildog: Have ya'll seen the prices they slashed recently on their website? Having owned one, the Scion OTM366 for $900 is a steal. They slashed prices on a BUNCH of handheld thermals. Just grabbed one….. here’s the other thread on FLIR deals https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/FLIR-Scion-OTM366-thermal-deal-updated-/5-2738678/ |
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Posted: 8/1/2024 6:58:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0627Devildog: Have ya'll seen the prices they slashed recently on their website? Having owned one, the Scion OTM366 for $900 is a steal. They slashed prices on a BUNCH of handheld thermals. Hell yeah, that is a steal 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:18:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC_Will: Hell yeah, that is a steal Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC_Will: Originally Posted By 0627Devildog: Have ya'll seen the prices they slashed recently on their website? Having owned one, the Scion OTM366 for $900 is a steal. They slashed prices on a BUNCH of handheld thermals. Hell yeah, that is a steal I jumped on their fire sale and grabbed a couple LS-XR handhelds, didn’t need them but figured I could trade my way to a NV setup |
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