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Posted: 6/28/2024 1:35:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomac]
Just got back from the range testing the M&P 12 w/a friend.
Pros: Compact, large capacity (12+1 3", 14+1 2.75", 20+1 1.75"), fast/easy to switch between mag tubes, factory vertical foregrip (well-made and firmly attached to the forearm), loaded chamber indicator, easy to open action w/lever on the front of the trigger guard, long optics/lights/sights/accessories rail, optional M-Lok slots, easy to unload w/o cycling the action, easy enough to strip/clean/lube, hefty (9.25lbs unloaded as shown below) but balances well which helps soak up recoil & you don't really feel the weight (I can definitely feel the weight out front of, say, an 870 Police magnum), fully ambidextrous w/downward ejection & AR-style safety on both sides, different size backstraps for the pistol grip ala the M&P pistols, very manageable recoil even w/9 pellet 2.75" OO Buck (authoritative, but I didn't find it punishing), QD sling swivel cups on buttstock, action cycles smoothly, the bullpup design transitions quickly between targets and I had no difficulty learning the manual of arms.

Cons: Slow to reload (tactical reloads are nigh-impossible for me, ymmv) but that's not a deal-killer for my HD role, right-side safety lever can painfully impact your trigger finger when firing if you let your grip slide up at all (which leads me to wonder if I can safely remove the right-side safety lever w/o difficulty), grip texturing is aggressive, almost too aggressive but didn't cause any real harm, sling swivel cups on the buttstock are positioned too high and aren't anti-rotational, optics rail is AR-height so either irons or an optic is an absolute necessity as it will shoot *very* high at close range w/o them (using only the front flip-up sight made it point-shoot much more accurately). M-Lok slots are my only serious complaint, they're at a strange angle and positioned too close to the optics rail so you can't attach anything to an M-lok picatinny rail section installed there (or the optic rail right next to it, for that matter), a regular offset scout mount won't work, I had to use a cantilever mount to successfully attach the Olight PL Turbo I'm experimenting with. So, the M-Lok slots are pretty much limited to what you can use them for (an M-Lok QD sling swivel cup did mount successfully). It has a long LOP (surprisingly it didn't bother me, but some find it objectionable). Action cycled smoothly when firing both 1.75" #4 buck & 2.75" birdshot but hesitated unlocking after firing 2.75" 00 buck (perhaps from the gun being new, more testing is in order). Difficult to mount a WML that's quickly/easily accessible.

While my friend is more of a traditionalist when it comes to shotguns ("it's just not my cup of tea" as he put it), I'm impressed w/the overall design and performance. Nothing I experienced today was a deal-breaker for me, and the quibbles I do have can either be fixed or worked around w/the exception of the 00 buck post-firing unlock hesitation (which I hope is just a break-in issue, time will tell). I haven't decided yet if I'm going to stay w/irons or try an RDS of some kind.
Barring some still-hidden fatal flaw, this is a keeper for me.

ETA: Hit the range again to try and discover the cause of the post-firing unlock hesitation. Turns out it was the old 00 buck I was using. I've had it for years and it's spent time chambered, in mag tubes and on side saddles and I wanted to shoot it up and replace it w/fresh ammo. I tried the exact same ammo that had been stored in the original boxes and it functioned w/o problem.

ETA2: Fixed the painful right-side safety problem by removing the lever then reinstalling it rotated 180 degrees, now the lever points up on the right side when firing. As an additional benefit, it's now easy to use my trigger finger to push the right-side lever to the 'safe' position.

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 6/28/2024 1:42:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Great review, please keep us posted on this one if you do more shooting with it.

I'd love to have a reliable bullpup shotgun, and S&W is definitely more reputable then turks and 'tec.
Link Posted: 6/28/2024 1:49:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomac] [#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By spydercomonkey:
Great review, please keep us posted on this one if you do more shooting with it.
I'd love to have a reliable bullpup shotgun, and S&W is definitely more reputable then turks and 'tec.
View Quote


Oh, I *will* be doing more shooting w/it in the near future, possibly a night shoot as well to see if my cobbled-together WML setup is actually practical or not. I did a lot of research before settling on the M&P 12.
I forgot to mention that the 1.75" Federal 15 pellet #4 buck mini-shells were a pleasure to shoot, recoiling perhaps the same if not a little less than the birdshot I used. Very fast to cycle and get back on-target, #4 buck should also reduce overpenetration concerns so I'm seriously considering making these my HD go-to for the first M&P 12 tube w/the other loaded w/00 or slugs in case 11rds of the #4 buck mini-shells isn't enough to get the job done.

ETA: With the Modified choke tube installed, generic 9 pellet 00 buck patterns 8" at 10yds.
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 1:48:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomac] [#3]
I was not happy w/the M-Lok cantilever light mount, the light would flex under pressure (thin barrel shroud?) so I tried a Magpul Rail Mount for picatinny/scout/1" lights and normally attaches to a side rail to position the light at 11 o'clock or 1 o'clock.
However, I got the bright idea to mount it to the M&P 12's top optic rail and it's worked out nicely w/the Olight much better secured than w/the M-Lok mount.
It's still a bit of an awkward stretch to reach the Olight's switch, but at least I can do so w/o completely removing my support hand from the vertical grip. Short of using a remote switch on the vertical grip, I'm unaware of any better setup for the M&P 12.

Magpul Rail Light Mount

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Link Posted: 6/29/2024 3:43:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Size comparison w/the Tavor X95:
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Link Posted: 6/29/2024 4:05:25 PM EDT
[#5]
So S&W has just given up on developing guns and is straight up copying Kel-Tec now?
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 4:19:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
So S&W has just given up on developing guns and is straight up copying Kel-Tec now?
View Quote


Either you're trolling a tech forum, or you haven't directly compared the KSG & M&P-12.
Similar concepts but very different under the hood w/superior execution going to the S&W.
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 9:08:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomac] [#7]
I have the Streamlight HLX Pro on all my rifles and wanted something similar for the M&P 12. Went with the similar peformance Streamlight HLX because of the dual tailcap setup; a dedicated clicky tailcap and a captive remote tailcap (so no remote plug to back out of the port from 12ga recoil ).

Initially I'd planned on trying the remote on the vertical foregrip, but the latching remote switch is too long and the grip itself is contoured in such a way as to make attaching a flat remote switch very difficult w/o resorting to a permanent adhesive.
Then, remembering a remote placement experiment I'd tried on one of my X95's, I tried the remote switch on the left side of the foregrip. Due to the length of the switch, there was only one possible way to place & orient the switch.
I would have preferred a less textured area and a shorter switch so it could be mounted parallel to the mag tube, but this turned out surprisingly well.

Cable management was another possible problem, but it worked out very nicely with a small zip tie loosely holding the cable close to the barrel shroud. After some dry firing I have no concerns about the cable snagging or wearing when cycling the action.
This is an experiment, only time will tell if this configuration is worth keeping. If it isn't, my only other option I can think of is to replace the remote tailcap w/the clicky tailcap then take my hand off the front grip to reach the switch.
For anyone who plans on mounting a WML on an M&P 12 I strongly suggest using a mount that attaches to the M&P 12's top optic rail.

ETA: There is a tendency to hit high using just the front MBUS, so I've slapped a couple of cheap 1/2" risers on the MBUS front & rear to see if that corrects the problem. I'll probably head to the range tomorrow morning to test this and patterning.

ETA2: The 1/2" risers on the MBUS did the trick. I can now snap-shoot accurately out to 20yds easy using only the front sight. I'm using the included Modified choke which produces about an 8-9" group w/00 at 20yds and really tightens up patterns with the birdshot I use for training (w/the Cylinder choke, birdshot opens up so much and so fast as to be basically useless for training, ymmv). Still not decided on whether or not to try an RDS on this.

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Link Posted: 7/9/2024 10:09:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Patterned 3 loads this morning. From left to right, #2 (Fiocchi Defense Dynamics 9 pellet #1 buck), #4 (S&B 9 pellet 00 buck) and #5 (S&B 12 pellet 00 buck).
While technically 2.75" shells, the S&B's have the longer European crimp which reduces mag capacity by 1. All shots were at 20yds using the Modified choke.

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Fiocchi #1 buck, appx 3.5" pattern, lighter recoil than std birdshot:
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S&B 9 pellet 00 buck, appx 6.5" pattern:
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S&B 12 pellet 00 buck, 11 of 12 on the silhouette, appx 12" pattern, a little disappointed with this load:
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Link Posted: 7/15/2024 5:03:46 PM EDT
[#9]
PA SLx 1x prism & Streamlight TLR RM2 make a surprisingly good combo. The SLx's etched reticle is fast and doesn't need batteries for daytime use. The RM2 is slightly visible at the bottom of the SLx's FOV (not enough to bother me) but is centered over the bbl w/no shadow and its remote switch is a tap for constant-on or press & hold for momentary (best WML setup I could come up w/for the M&P-12).

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