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Posted: 7/1/2024 10:25:28 PM EDT
What is the heaviest bullet in a MIL 5.56 cartridge?
What is the cartridge designation? Thanks! |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 11:43:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Mk 262 77gr
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ID, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2024 1:06:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Boisestatefan]
[#2]
Magic bullet, magic powder, just plain magic.
Mk262 stuff is amazing. I have a couple boxes left and don't want to shoot em. I'm not sure why I'm still hanging on to them, what are 40 rounds going to do for me? |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2024 1:19:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sigman68]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boisestatefan: Magic bullet, magic powder, just plain magic. Mk262 stuff is amazing. I have a couple boxes left and don't want to shoot em. I'm not sure why I'm still hanging on to them, what are 40 rounds going to do for me? @Boisestatefan Amazing how? |
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Posted: 7/2/2024 7:51:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Shooting teams, SoF or General Purpose Forces
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ID, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2024 10:29:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Very, very accurate with great velocity.
I've shot them through multiple rifles and they all 5 shot sub minute groups regularly. In the 1/2 to 3/4 range. It's by far the best factory ammo I've shot. |
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Posted: 7/19/2024 8:31:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#6]
Tested was a 100 gr powder frang bullet but withdrawn around 10-15'. Actual issued is the 77 gr OTM Mk 262 Mod 1. Shoots great in every barrel I've shot it from (10.3", 14.5", 18" and 20") I've taken 3 deer with it, used it in All Army Matches and carry ammo while in Astan and Iraq.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2024 10:14:31 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Tested was a 100 gr powder frang bullet but withdrawn around 10-15'. Actual issued is the 77 gr OTM Mk 262 Mod 1. Shoots great in every barrel I've shot it from (10.3", 14.5", 18" and 20") I've taken 3 deer with it, used it in All Army Matches and carry ammo while in Astan and Iraq. /thread |
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Posted: 7/21/2024 12:32:52 PM EDT
[#8]
For the OP... Mk262 77gr is a great round for "vermin" , but doesn't do so well against hardened targets.
For more hardened targets, consider "Blind Barrier" loads. |
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Posted: 7/21/2024 4:59:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06: For the OP... Mk262 77gr is a great round for "vermin" , but doesn't do so well against hardened targets. For more hardened targets, consider "Blind Barrier" loads. Barrier blind ammunition is the common terminology, in an effort to not confuse. |
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Posted: 7/21/2024 5:26:56 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 7/24/2024 12:29:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Barrier blind ammunition is the common terminology, in an effort to not confuse. Thank You |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 12:51:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Actual issued is the 77 gr OTM Mk 262 Mod 1. Shoots great in every barrel I've shot it from (10.3", 14.5", 18" and 20") I've taken 3 deer with it, used it in All Army Matches and carry ammo while in Astan and Iraq. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Actual issued is the 77 gr OTM Mk 262 Mod 1. Shoots great in every barrel I've shot it from (10.3", 14.5", 18" and 20") I've taken 3 deer with it, used it in All Army Matches and carry ammo while in Astan and Iraq. The Marine Corps Rifle Team also bought moly-coated 77s for Camp Perry National Match competition. CARTRIDGE, CALIBER 5.56MM, USMC SPECIAL MATCH, MOLY COATED MK 294 MOD 0 1. SCOPE 1.1 Scope. This specification establishes the requirements for the 5.56mm USMC Special Match, Moly Coated, MK 294 MOD 0 Cartridge (hereafter referred to as "test cartridge" or "cartridge"). The cartridge is intended for use in the National Match M16A2 Weapon System, however this cartridge may be used in any magazine fed 5.56mm weapon system. The Marine Corps Marksmanship Training Unit uses the cartridge as a match round. |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 12:55:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Tested was a 100 gr powder frang bullet but withdrawn around 10-15'. Actual issued is the 77 gr OTM Mk 262 Mod 1. Shoots great in every barrel I've shot it from (10.3", 14.5", 18" and 20") I've taken 3 deer with it, used it in All Army Matches and carry ammo while in Astan and Iraq. You might know this… wasn’t there a subsonic round tested in the 80-90gr range? Or did I just pull that out of my rear? And another +1 for mk262. From the PSA 77gr load all the way up to black hills factory and .mil loads, it’s a fantastic round. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/24/2024 1:14:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: CARTRIDGE, CALIBER 5.56MM, USMC SPECIAL MATCH, MOLY COATED MK 294 MOD 0 1. SCOPE 1.1 Scope. This specification establishes the requirements for the 5.56mm USMC Special Match, Moly Coated, MK 294 MOD 0 Cartridge (hereafter referred to as "test cartridge" or "cartridge"). The cartridge is intended for use in the National Match M16A2 Weapon System, however this cartridge may be used in any magazine fed 5.56mm weapon system. The Marine Corps Marksmanship Training Unit uses the cartridge as a match round. I'm intrigued. . . . I thought moly coated bullets had fallen out of favor in the shooting competition community? Can you shed any light on the Marine Corps decision for coated bullets in this or other cases? |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 1:27:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#15]
It was a while ago. I don't think Sierra even carries them any more.
 Attached FileI shot maybe 1500 moly 77 Black Hills and handloads. Meh. Seemed like snake-oil. |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 1:36:17 AM EDT
[#16]
I’ve seen 87gr powdered tungsten loaded by Black Hills.
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Posted: 7/24/2024 2:34:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy: You might know this… wasn’t there a subsonic round tested in the 80-90gr range? Or did I just pull that out of my rear? And another +1 for mk262. From the PSA 77gr load all the way up to black hills factory and .mil loads, it’s a fantastic round. I don't know of any subsonic or sonic 80-90 gr loads |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 3:58:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Powell River Laboratories.
Blue used them. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 11:13:49 AM EDT
[#19]
We had 80gr ammo for camp Perry training
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Posted: 7/25/2024 11:40:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#20]
80s are a handload. National Guard and Army Reserve Teams load them at home station or at the AMU on our machines.
  87-grain Powell River Lab "Bubba Bullet" sintered-tungsten loads were not a military ammunition program of record. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 11:47:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HomeAtLast]
[#21]
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Posted: 7/25/2024 1:44:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: 87-grain Powell River Lab "Bubba Bullet" sintered-tungsten loads were not a military ammunition program of record. No doubt, but the Navy was shooting people with them. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 3:37:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HomeAtLast: https://blackarcmunitions.com/products/77gr-serria-match-king-shell-shock 2920 FPS 77gr at 2,920. Damn |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 12:27:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boisestatefan: Magic bullet, magic powder, just plain magic. Mk262 stuff is amazing. I have a couple boxes left and don't want to shoot em. I'm not sure why I'm still hanging on to them, what are 40 rounds going to do for me? Especially if you don’t know how it will perform for YOU in YOUR rifle. Practice with what you shoot and shoot what you practice with. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 5:01:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: 80s are a handload. National Guard and Army Reserve Teams load them at home station or at the AMU on our machines. http://www.usarshooters.org/images/loading5.jpg http://www.usarshooters.org/images/loading1.jpg 87-grain Powell River Lab "Bubba Bullet" sintered-tungsten loads were not a military ammunition program of record. @Sinister In the second photo, is That Joe Carlos ? |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 11:55:59 AM EDT
[#26]
It certainly is
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/28/2024 12:00:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By SteveOak: What is the heaviest bullet in a MIL 5.56 cartridge? What is the cartridge designation? Thanks! I don't understand why 77gr and other slightly heavier bullets in 5.56 are the new big thing. I'm sure you can eek out a couple percentage points improvements in effectiveness, but this wouldn't be an issue if 11.5" barrels weren't the new hot thing in the first place. If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 1:36:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Heavy bullets double the supersonic range of the bullet.
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Posted: 7/28/2024 6:50:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Heavy bullets double the supersonic range of the bullet. What is considered 'heavy' in this case? Double the supersonic range of what bullet/load/designation/MV? What is the bullet/load/MV/SS range of the one that is doubled? |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 7:59:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Compare M193 to Mk262. It’s not quite double but close enough. Half again at least.
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Posted: 7/28/2024 8:09:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? What? 77gr were originally designed for 20" service rifle matches |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 11:07:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: It certainly is Thank You ! |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 11:14:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: akethan]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boisestatefan: Magic bullet, magic powder, just plain magic. Mk262 stuff is amazing. I have a couple boxes left and don't want to shoot em. I'm not sure why I'm still hanging on to them, what are 40 rounds going to do for me? I have some old MOD 0 
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Posted: 7/29/2024 12:04:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Is the Black Hills version available anymore? Seems to have been OOS everywhere for the last few years.
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Posted: 7/29/2024 5:23:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteveOak: 77gr at 2,920. Damn Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteveOak: Originally Posted By HomeAtLast: https://blackarcmunitions.com/products/77gr-serria-match-king-shell-shock 2920 FPS 77gr at 2,920. Damn  The FASTEST 5.56 77gr ammo for your AR ? |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 2:16:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I don't understand why 77gr and other slightly heavier bullets in 5.56 are the new big thing. I'm sure you can eek out a couple percentage points improvements in effectiveness, but this wouldn't be an issue if 11.5" barrels weren't the new hot thing in the first place. If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? I don’t really love either of them, but there is no debating that they are suitable choices, together or separate, military or not. |
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Posted: 8/1/2024 5:11:29 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I don't understand why 77gr and other slightly heavier bullets in 5.56 are the new big thing. I'm sure you can eek out a couple percentage points improvements in effectiveness, but this wouldn't be an issue if 11.5" barrels weren't the new hot thing in the first place. If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? IMHO, the 77gr isn't just about terminal performance... it is also about far less wind drift ( better BC ) compared to 55gr and 62gr "Ball" ammo. So far better hit probability at distances , with cross winds. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235144241/figure/fig15/AS:340579327201324@1458211847453/Cross-wind-drift-for-10-m-s-cross-wind-vs-projectile-mass-for-ranges-of-150-300-450.png |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2024 11:56:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I don't understand why 77gr and other slightly heavier bullets in 5.56 are the new big thing. I'm sure you can eek out a couple percentage points improvements in effectiveness, but this wouldn't be an issue if 11.5" barrels weren't the new hot thing in the first place. If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? The 77gr rounds are better for all barrel lengths, at least from a terminal ballistics perspective. They are more accurate, have better BC's (hold velocity longer), hit harder, and have lower "cough cough" fragmentation thresholds, thus extending their range over M193 and M855. Biggest confusion I have with 77gr rounds is: Does the military issue 77gr SMK's or 77gr OTM's, or both as Mk262? (Not getting into 77gr TMK's). |
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Posted: 8/2/2024 2:34:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: The 77gr rounds are better for all barrel lengths, at least from a terminal ballistics perspective. They are more accurate, have better BC's (hold velocity longer), hit harder, and have lower "cough cough" fragmentation thresholds, thus extending their range over M193 and M855. Biggest confusion I have with 77gr rounds is: Does the military issue 77gr SMK's or 77gr OTM's, or both as Mk262? (Not getting into 77gr TMK's). Believe it's the same bullet, just different names. Commercially 77 gr SMK bullet Military calls it the 77 gr OTM and loaded ammo is Mk262 Mod 0/1 |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 8/2/2024 4:02:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Believe it's the same bullet, just different names. Commercially 77 gr SMK bullet Military calls it the 77 gr OTM and loaded ammo is Mk262 Mod 0/1 Ok, that makes sense. I was digging a bit more and I think I now understand the commercial difference is basically who makes the projectile itself. On the military side, I read that OTM is used instead BTHP to avoid to use of "hollow point", but they are the same thing. On the commercial side, SMK is just Sierra's 77gr BTHP Match bullet. Looks like just manufacturer nomenclature and minutia. I had to go look at the actual 77gr Nosler and Hornady projectiles to see if they offered Match grade Boat Tailed Hollow Points. Didn't realize Hornady only offers a 77gr BTHP to PSA. That is interesting. I was just looking at PSA's 77gr OTM vs their 77gr SMK. Their OTM is made by Hornady while their SMK's (and TMK's) are made by Sierra. https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-5-56-nato-77-grain-sierra-matchking-hpbt-20rd-box.html  https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-5-56-nato-77-grain-otm-20rd-box-ammunition.html  In the end, Match Grade BTHP = OTM (assuming the OTM has a BT). Not fully understanding the differences had been bugging me for years. |
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Posted: 8/3/2024 8:17:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Ok, that makes sense. I was digging a bit more and I think I now understand the commercial difference is basically who makes the projectile itself. On the military side, I read that OTM is used instead BTHP to avoid to use of "hollow point", but they are the same thing. On the commercial side, SMK is just Sierra's 77gr BTHP Match bullet. Looks like just manufacturer nomenclature and minutia. I had to go look at the actual 77gr Nosler and Hornady projectiles to see if they offered Match grade Boat Tailed Hollow Points. Didn't realize Hornady only offers a 77gr BTHP to PSA. That is interesting. I was just looking at PSA's 77gr OTM vs their 77gr SMK. Their OTM is made by Hornady while their SMK's (and TMK's) are made by Sierra. https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-5-56-nato-77-grain-sierra-matchking-hpbt-20rd-box.html https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/a/a/aac556smk1-20.jpg https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-5-56-nato-77-grain-otm-20rd-box-ammunition.html https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7af8331bf1196ca28793bd1e8f6ecc7b/a/a/aac556otm1-20.jpg In the end, Match Grade BTHP = OTM (assuming the OTM has a BT). Not fully understanding the differences had been bugging me for years. @panthermark FWIW... apparently BHA also uses the Hornady 77gr OTM in the D556N9 load. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Current-Black-Hills-5-56-77gr-OTM-D556N9--uses-a-77gr-Hornady-Bullet-/16-784981/ |
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Posted: 8/7/2024 2:34:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HomeAtLast: https://blackarcmunitions.com/products/77gr-serria-match-king-shell-shock 2920 FPS Out of an 18" barrel, still good though. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/7/2024 9:15:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: The 77gr rounds are better for all barrel lengths, at least from a terminal ballistics perspective. They are more accurate, have better BC's (hold velocity longer), hit harder, and have lower "cough cough" fragmentation thresholds, thus extending their range over M193 and M855. Biggest confusion I have with 77gr rounds is: Does the military issue 77gr SMK's or 77gr OTM's, or both as Mk262? (Not getting into 77gr TMK's). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I don't understand why 77gr and other slightly heavier bullets in 5.56 are the new big thing. I'm sure you can eek out a couple percentage points improvements in effectiveness, but this wouldn't be an issue if 11.5" barrels weren't the new hot thing in the first place. If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? The 77gr rounds are better for all barrel lengths, at least from a terminal ballistics perspective. They are more accurate, have better BC's (hold velocity longer), hit harder, and have lower "cough cough" fragmentation thresholds, thus extending their range over M193 and M855. Biggest confusion I have with 77gr rounds is: Does the military issue 77gr SMK's or 77gr OTM's, or both as Mk262? (Not getting into 77gr TMK's). Interesting point. Thank you. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/12/2024 6:31:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Nick_Adams]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: 11.5” barrels are nowhere near “new”….they’ve been on ARs since around the 60s. 77gr ammo became the “new hot thing” like 2 decades ago, probably more. I don’t really love either of them, but there is no debating that they are suitable choices, together or separate, military or not. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: Originally Posted By VersaceDesertEagle: I don't understand why 77gr and other slightly heavier bullets in 5.56 are the new big thing. I'm sure you can eke out a couple percentage points improvements in effectiveness, but this wouldn't be an issue if 11.5" barrels weren't the new hot thing in the first place. If 16" to 20" were the standard barrel lengths everyone used would anybody even care about heavier bullets? I don’t really love either of them, but there is no debating that they are suitable choices, together or separate, military or not. What’s the optimum OTM/HP for my 10.5” SBR run suppressed? ….. Or should I just stick with 55grn M193? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2024 7:33:08 PM EDT
[#45]
77gr Sectional Density is .219 , so that helps .
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USA
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Posted: 8/12/2024 8:15:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Had some 100 grain subsonic loads that appeared to be moly coated in Fallujah. Passed down from another Unit, not sure where they got them.
They cycled in the MK12 Mod 1. |
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Posted: 8/12/2024 9:22:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote History@HomeAtLast Most enlightening, thank you for the vid! |
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Posted: 8/12/2024 10:30:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nick_Adams: What’s the optimum OTM/HP for my 10.5” SBR run suppressed? ….. Or should I just stick with 55grn M193? https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/?page=1 Lotta damn good info there. ^^^^ |
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