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Posted: 9/24/2024 4:44:08 PM EDT
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How important is visible override for 2A civlian LAM purposes? How important is it to be able to come off the IR laser and target something with a visible laser so quickly that it makes a visible override button good to have or even a necessity? |
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I'd say the question here is - can you use your day-time optic with the NODs on your head? Example scenario: You are in a hallway / alley and on the other end you have a person using white light. Since your (even FP) IR laser will hardly overpower any half decent flashlight, you are forced to switch to WL for ID and whatever follows. IF you can use your day-time optic with your nod's on it's probably your best bet. If you can't, have a gas mask on etc. you might want to have quick access to that green laser beam. |
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Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: How important is visible override for 2A civlian LAM purposes? How important is it to be able to come off the IR laser and target something with a visible laser so quickly that it makes a visible override button good to have or even a necessity? What are you asking? Are you looking for info regarding SOP from tier one units? Swat Teams? Define or refine your question please. The issue there is that you're once again going to get a variety of opinions based off of preference. No one can tell you if visible over ride is important or not. That's up to you to determine. You know what you will and wont be doing with your rifle and equipment in the context of your life. In the context of realistic civilian use, yes, vis over ride is important. I would strongly encourage you to never shoot anyone you haven't positively identified via white light. If you live in a castle doctrine state and you're not a moron, you've got a lot of leeway with this but I think most people would encourage you to not smoke someone under nods. In the context of fantasy land larping, VIS override becomes preference. |
Mike_Golf says: "You're not an ethical hunter and likely an asshole to boot."
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Originally Posted By StarlightBright: I'd say the question here is - can you use your day-time optic with the NODs on your head? Example scenario: You are in a hallway / alley and on the other end you have a person using white light. Since your (even FP) IR laser will hardly overpower any half decent flashlight, you are forced to switch to WL for ID and whatever follows. IF you can use your day-time optic with your nod's on it's probably your best bet. If you can't, have a gas mask on etc. you might want to have quick access to that green laser beam. My understanding is that a dual tube user will just angle his head down looking under the NODs to use the weapon sight with the white light to make the shot. A PVS14 over the dominant eye could do the same thing, just look under the NODs with the white light and use the weapon sight. Where I guess for me anyways it would get tricky is when wearing the gas mask, because I can't really look under the NODs at that point and use the weapon sight with just white light. I'd need that visible laser as my aiming device. So, am I correct in saying that viz override with that visible laser is necessary for anyone using a gas mask? So few of the IR laser devices have that viz override feature and it's not included on the new M6TR from Laserspeed or the anticipated Holosun IRIS (as far as I've seen). |
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Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: My understanding is that a dual tube user will just angle his head down looking under the NODs to use the weapon sight with the white light to make the shot. A PVS14 over the dominant eye could do the same thing, just look under the NODs with the white light and use the weapon sight. Where I guess for me anyways it would get tricky is when wearing the gas mask, because I can't really look under the NODs at that point and use the weapon sight with just white light. I'd need that visible laser as my aiming device. So, am I correct in saying that viz override with that visible laser is necessary for anyone using a gas mask? So few of the IR laser devices have that viz override feature and it's not included on the new M6TR from Laserspeed or the anticipated Holosun IRIS (as far as I've seen). How much training have you done with a gas mask? What optic mount are you running? You're answering your own question. If you want the ability to go to vis laser/light without having to adjust your MFAL, you will need an MFAL with VIS over ride. Also, you don't angle your head down. You angle it up to look under your nods. |
Mike_Golf says: "You're not an ethical hunter and likely an asshole to boot."
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Well, for sure, if you take any classes, they are going to heavily stress urban CQB stuff, and switching from I2/thermal to WL. So there's that. Whether that's a thing. Hmmm yeah I wonder about that as well. We just moved to SD. We are on the edge of town with nothing but cornfields to our south, and east. Actually have to go down a dirt road for a mile or so to get there. Kinda like one of those country songs. But anyways, I've been wondering around a bit and asking myself the same questions. It's pretty fun at night. If I orient to the south and east, it's pure I2 and thermal. If I look west and then north, it's a small neighborhood, and mixed light conditions. When I said I live on the edge of town, I meant it! So for sure, there's a possibility that I may have to switch up from NV to WL. So number one, the RDS is there, and with a switch, I can go from NV to daylight settings. But my WL is always ready to go on a separate switch (but covered), so there's that. Just a matter of whether the viz laser is required. Off-position aiming, gas-mask, etc. might be a slight possibility but not a requirement for me. At least at this point in time. So for me, and my sit, I'm not making a big deal out of having the viz over-ride feature. But that's not to say you don't do your own eval and decide. Just giving one opinion, as requested. And yeah I set my binos angled slightly up, and when patrolling, I will tilt head slightly down to look through them, and tilt head slightly up to look around without them. But that's for scanning, not fighting, which is 100% of what I'm doing now. And probably 99% in the near term. But again my estimate of the situation, in my location. |
It's all about the fiddle factor.
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I like vis override because it's convenient. I can set my MFAL to the appropriate IR mode, but if I hit the WL button, I've got my green laser there in a pinch - and I don't think there's zero use case for vis lasers, even though they're niche. Makes me feel like I've got more capability at hand. That said, I don't think it's make or break, and I would not pick a less performant MFAL simply because it had vis override capability. You also get somewhat more limited on your remote switch choices because there's no single standard for vis override (NGAL vs the two port thing DBAL/ACAL uses). |
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Good points. If Viz-overirde was so important, you'd think UT would be falling all over themselves in producing the switches for it. But they aren't. I tried for months to find one, with the LA-23 plug, and no joy. So I bought the Spec Precision one. So with a SG NGAL, I have that set up, at least on one rifle. All things considered, I am running SG PEQ-15's on the majority of my rifles. Yes, they have faults. But they also have many advantages. I think we can really get out in the weeds here, looking at all that is available and trying to figure out if we really need it. Or not. I think we have a tendency to use things, just because they're there, and because of all the vendors pimping their wares, rather than really scrubbing it down and determining if we really need them. There seems to be this constant battle between high tech, and animal cunning. The MIC is constantly touting all this stuff, yet we see how primitive tribes defeat it all. And yes, I know peer-to-peer is a different kettle of fish, one each, but we have not seen a major conflict, with all this high tech stuff, including drones, to see if it's really all sustainable in the long haul. So viz-override? Meh. If you're way out in the country, minding your own, probably not. If you're stuck in major urban shit-hole, with all the hordes? Yeah, maybe. So location, location, and location. |
It's all about the fiddle factor.
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I'd say vis override is an absolute must for any new LAM. As for "UT" not making a switch, you didn't look very hard. I've been using one since they came out The hardest switch to find with google |
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