I guess I missed this chapter.  Griffin is two brothers, and one of them posts here.  I am not sure which.  He seems pretty helpful.  You are not the first to point out something bad about Griffin.  What is the history?

Am I reading your post correctly.  First sentence says you refuse to buy Brand A, and second sentence says you do not care about the people behind the cans?  Sorry, bro, might be an inside baseball thing that I just missed.

Here we go…

[Deleted]

I don’t really understand why people take Ken B. and Griffin antics so personally. I think it’s kind of funny (more so the folks letting it get under their skin thing than what they actually have said or done), and their CS has always been good to me.  I’ve said on here before that I kind of like that some of the folk in the industry have some personal distaste for one another, keeps things from being too buddy buddy.  Adds some competitive spirit.

I have one Q can and several Griffin cans.  I wish the Nomad LT had been available when the Thunder Chicken was released, but it wasn’t, and I’m still happy with the Thunder Chicken for my host.  GA’s latest Gen suppressors really sound good for the weight.  I could replace most of my suppressors with theirs and be really happy.  Except for the DA Wolfman, which is amazing.  

One alibi: the point toward Arab thing was in poor taste, not big on that.  But everyone makes mistakes.  Thankfully I didn’t put any of the stupidest things I’ve said in my life on a product, or even the internet.

This X1000.  

And I won't ever buy an OCL can.  These are lifetime purchases.  A dude parading around doing to stupid shit he does is not going to be around 10 years from now when I need service.  There's a younger generation behind me that doesn't care—they can be his cumstomers.

[Deleted]

see pics 2-3 below.

Racial comments by suppressor maker

Cans are important. Owners of can companies are not.

Who was it that had the can with “Infidel” spelled backwards in Arabic on the front?

THAT was funny.

Yes, the head of the company matters to me.  Mainly because I bought from an awful 'manufacturer' who was a former manager at AWC back in 1999.  I was beyond dissatisfied with my first 308 can for 23 years - until ECCO came to the rescue and rebuilt it into a can that I'd put up against ANY 30 cal can on the market!  My next suppressor purchases were by a one-man company that had a good mind for suppressors, but was an awful machinist, a cheapskate, was always disinterested, and would shill his products online.  One of the guys hasn't been heard from in almost 20 years and the other could quit or have a car accident tomorrow.  The end.  

Thankful for guys like Nick at ECCO.

So now I'll only buy from guys that know how to treat a customer, make good stuff, communicate well (and professionally), and will be in business for years to come.  A great example would be Mike and especially Todd of Dead Air.

[Deleted]

It is hard to escape social media.  It is also hard to strike a balance between all of "us" standing together and being a little tolerant of each other, as the anti-gun people are hoping we self-destruct.  I will say, it is hard, however when OCL supports liberal agenda:  " I’m pretty open about my politics and funny enough I align more with you and others in this group than most of the gun community" as quoted in the Reddit (group) /r2ALiberals on 11/28/22, and it would seem, from his own post on Instagram that he is just abusive to other gun dealers : "Not helpful for Andrew to call and ask, 'do you want to suck my dick, faggot'," posted Thanksgiving Day, 2022 on @otterdump on Instagram

At some point, I would like to it all stop.  I had no idea the animosity toward Griffin.  I know of the history of Brittingham.  And, looking out even further, a growing divide between the Pulse meter crowd, led by Zak, AAC, Energetic Armament, American Suppressor Association and Hansohn and others, and the Pew Science crowd including CGS, OCL, Griffin, Capitol Armory, etc.  Maybe there needs to be an amnesty and a group hug?  Honestly, I think Brittingham's antics are old history, but his suppessors are not as good as he told us.  Griffin shows up hear and listens to the bitching.  Seems all like old news to me.  And, what is it about Diligent Defense?  I hear shit about them, and I have no idea who the founder is.  Just bad vibes, and maybe that is bad on me for not researching.

This business with Otter Creek is brand new to me.  I am just shocked.  He is making more dildo videos and stickers, and I had no clue on the racists and liberal comments.  What is different here is:  Griffin is present.  Brittingham is silent.  Now, all that we need is King to stop his stupid behavior, come clean about his racist and liberal thoughts, and get the Pulse and Pew group to stop fighting.

TL:DR - I know.  

Oh, maybe I would like to hear more about OSS and whatever their new name is.  I had no idea about their bankruptcy almost 2 years ago.  It has been explained as a rebranding.  Why hide?  AAC had a bankruptcy.  Colt had several.  Maybe warranty volume at DA-KG Made and what really happened with the DOD contract for FDE Sandman, and what is the QA behind KG Made.  Or Energetic Armament and the myth around their secret metal.

Did I miss anyone?  This is equal opportunity insults.  haha.  Maybe CGS.  I have nothing bad to say, but I want to hear more about their work.

There are just too many shadows and falsehoods and in-fighting.  Maybe we need a private forum for manufacturers, dealers and core suppressor nerds to hash it out in private, and try our best to be tolerant and understanding of the other guy.  This is a business where people think they have to be right, or it is my brand above your brand, otherwise I cannot be good.  The truth is:  There have never been so many good suppressor manufacturers at any time in history.

I disagree but everyone is entitled to an opinion

This is the problem everywhere in this country. We're all too damn intolerant of each other and yell at clouds because other people do not live up to our own internal code, ethics, morals, whatever.

The internet and especially social media has allowed us all to peer too far into each others lives and thoughts. Unsurprisingly, we don't like what we see.

Some of you would have a stroke if you were at a party full of professional tactical shooters, which is probably why you don’t get invited.

Performance matters, in shooting, racing, and guns. Human outliers have a tendency to be eccentric, though not all are.

This well said and I agree.

Never really understood all the hate in this niche market.  No one can say their shit doesn't stink.  We all screw up at some point.  Respect to all the manufacturers on on this board who come back every day to take the heat.  I would have a hard time buying from someone who didn't have a little arrogance about their product and I don't have any concerns about ANY of the manufacturers here supporting my hardware.

I will, however, not purchase products made by wife beaters and those who don't support the 2nd Amendment.  They don't post here though so my previous statement doesn't apply.

Keep up the good work guys, cans are really getting awesome!

Attached File

It did give me the chuckles

The man himself texted me requesting this post, so see below.

This is Andrew King of Otter Creek Labs.
I’m sending a friend of mine with an arfcom account to deliver a message. I was going to do it myself but I just decided I didn’t feel like it.

I’m doing something I swore I’d never do and addressing the 12 of you crying about dumb shit in an echo chamber. There’s a lot to unpack here and it’s lengthy but here we go.


I’m literally just a normal dude who has never said or done anything to any of you and have no idea why it’s the small % of arfcom hates me so much, it’s funny to me. Like do you realize how crazy that is? How crazy it looks to others outside of your bubble? It’s just WEIRD bro that you guys are so concerned about me doing nothing and it doesn’t even make sense. That’s why I’ve never addressed any of you directly and instead just mock you. Your grievances deserve no serious response.


The ONLY reason I made an account is to clear up one thing. The anti 2a whatever comment made up there by whoever idk. You all can say whatever you want about me all day but that’s where I draw the line.
I am an avid and uncompromising 2A supporter and through my ventures at quell tech I promise you I did more for the 2A than any of you ever have — slinging 1M worth of solvent traps, m16 conversion jigs and suppressor drilling jigs for the masses to make their own stuff at home (legally of course, duh). I was shipping mags and DIY parts to ban states while you were doing NRA round up on your midway USA order so Wayne could buy a new $20,000 suit, thinkin you really did something special.


But yes most of my other options on social issues are to the left on things such as anti forever war, abortion, gay rights, universal health care, minimum wage, racial issues of injustice, police and justice reform and such. So what? I vote Republican still because of guns even if I’m not necessarily a fan of most of their stances. That’s just life I guess. All the politicians left and right are owned by corporations and don’t care about you anyway, so it’s not like it matters. They all hate us.


It’s funny that one of you would call me a liberal and THEN try and cancel me for a bad joke I told 4 years ago, that I already apologized for a year ago. That’s some deep lib cnn cancel shit right there. I’m guessing you’ve cried about cancel culture in another context whenever it suits you, whatever Fox News told you to be mad about that day. And the worst part is I’m genuinely not sure if you’re too stupid to not see the irony there or if you just don’t care that it doesn’t make sense because you just like saying words.


The Reddit post linked in here is a year old and the content it’s referencing is 4 years old (before OCL existed). I’ve paid my dues for that mistake.
But I’ll say it again for the 4 people reading this - Yes, I had a meme page where in a 7 year time there were 7000 posts and someone picked out 3 that were just JOKES but admittedly in poor form and cringe. And for that I’m sorry. ***If every joke YOU had ever made was posted on the internet would YOU walk away clean?*** You know the answer to that, get out of here lol.
I know you all don’t ACTUALLY care. You’re just using it as ammo to advance some weird agenda of hating me for ??? reasons. And truthfully that’s even worse than what I said, using what could be actual pain for some people and using to artificially prop up your failures to justify the OCL hate otherwise. It’s sad. You’re mad about the ocm5 existing and that I put a dick on my helmet (LOL) and you realize nobody gives a shit so you’re grasping.


So that’s it, I said what I had to say.
It’s really weird how you guys act and I don’t want to be involved in it. I’ll just keep being me and you just keep being you.
To those who like us and support us, thank you and I love you.
To the rest of you weirdos - sugma, ligma, seethe, cope and justify. I hope someday you find happiness and success in your life so you can stop being so miserable and crying on the internet about people who are. Maybe if you spent half the time you spend worrying about other people on bettering your own life people would know who you are and talk about you too.

I will not be responding further.

Otter out
*mic drop*

And ARF lost an industry partner.

Lol

I still don’t know anyone’s pronouns.

I had zero opinion on this company or owner until seeing this. He sounds like an idiot in this post.

Wait... is this copy pasta?!?!?!?!



Damn that's cringy

Is it cringe if he is right?

Well "bro". Yes. Random dumbass on the internet writes that rant, every laughs and moves on. Owner of a company in the market specific to this forum.... cringe. I literally have zero issue with anything posted about what that dude has done. Dildo on a helmet is funny AF to me. That rant sounds pathetic.

Did he just admit to a crime or two?  Selling high capacity magazines to restricted states.  Aiding and  abetting the illegal manufacture of machine guns.  I mean, the only people who can make a full auto rifle at home are not “the masses,” but are licensed manufacturers with an SOT.  We can all wish it not so, but until the 1968 GCA and the NFA are overturned (soon would be good), the masses cannot build their own machine guns.

So, we are the dumbshits and he has done more to promote 2a than all of us?

What is interesting is he gets a critical eye here and gets trashed upside down and sideways on Reddit, but on Instagram, his following calls both a cesspool.  His Instagram posts and his community of followers there is pretty rude to anyone with a different point of view.

When I tuned in and saw that Andrew was posting, I was expecting something maybe humble, clear the air, professional.  Wow.

I guess this was my point or question about the people behind the cans.  It’s has to matter to some point.  I had trouble following this manifesto, I would wonder what other goofy stuff might go on in the shop.

This thread just continues to gain steam.

Kevin, come out, come out, wherever you are!

As a person of color I would like to thank him for making it easy for me to cross his company off of my list.


Can someone clear the Griffin part up for me a bit?  I’m looking at a few griffin products I wanna get as free lining one of their handguards.


Because to me ownership and who runs the company does matter.

Reddit and IG love OCL cans…this thread is the only hate i’ve seen against the company..

and people getting hung up on a helmet dildo picture is hilarious. you can definitely tell peoples age by what they get offended over.

The OCL polonium Pew science results speak for themselves. The can is the quietest on the market and its built to last, so even if the company disappears tomorrow i have no doubts itll last a lifetime.  

Big Tom Callahan "Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."

A good butcher is important, especially with the often expensive (which can be relative)  and slow NFA process of buying a suppressor.

So, this is your first post on Ar15.com, bro?

I have seen a fair amount of commentary on Reddit that holds OCL feet to the fire, and fan mail.  IG is just a cult following.  Don’t confuse holding someone accountable as “hate.”  I have not seen any HATE in this thread.  But that thinking is typical of OCL’s cult posts on IG.  

And, if you have read this thread, you will notice this is not “all about Andrew.”  Many have just come to know his name and his brand.  Griffin and Q have taken quite a hit.  Mr. Green has taken it and responded politely.  OCL is not a household name, but Andrew King has made himself the class clown.  Not out anyone’s hate, but his own doing.

BUT, YOU ARE A SHILL.  fake account or just joined to come to rescue of Mr. King.

As to PEW, Andrew has distorted the results of Jay’s testing, and claimed victory as the best, and that is just not true.

OCL seems to make an average product.  No great.  Not aweful.  But that is built upon the backs on other brands that helped him and others while in the Form 1 community.  Free insights after others spent $$$ on R&D.  This company made its bones copying Ron Allen’s can and never even talked to Ron.

But, it would seem that the owner is showing his personal thinking, behavior, pictures, postings that is concerning.

I have let emotions cloud my judgement in the past. But I am trying to be more mature as the years pass. It’s a constant battle.

At the risk of offending more than half of the readers/posters of this thread, scientists (specifically engineers) often lack the social/personal skills to have conversations with non-engineers. My theory is that every human has a set amount of brainpower that needs to be divided up between everyday life, relationships, logistics, and expertise. If 90% of that brainpower goes towards the field of expertise, there’s only 10% leftover for everything else.

If I get shot, I want the best level 1 trauma surgeon fixing me. But chances are, he’s probably not the same guy I want to spend my free time with.

You want real science and engineering in firearm development. The side effects are alternative personalities.

im not here to convince anyone to buy anything, i came here from posts on reddit and figured id give my 2 cents.
feel free to look my reddit with the same username. I spend a lot of time on /r/NFA and havent seen any OCL hate, they hate YHM and worship Dead air and CGS more than anything.

please enlighten me how someone would distort raw data? thats a pretty bold claim to make. are we only believing pew science data when the numbers are in favor of cans we own?

and the “x copied y” isnt even an argument…Ive heard it with Griffin and ive heard it with OCL. its always Allen engineering and KAC fan boys that are doing the complaining. when companys fail to innovate others will step in and fill the gap in the market.

competition is good for us as consumers, theres never been a better time to buy suppressors. Companies like OCL, Resilient, Diligent, etc are lighting a fire under the industries ass and im here for it.

He's a shill because he doesn't find the same things offensive as you do?

He's a shill because he pointed out that OCL made a can that seems pretty solid and tested as one of the best cans by someone that is held in very high regard (and rightfully so Jay).

Love Andrew. Hate Andrew. Who gives a shit. He makes some really good cans (and you can argue all you want to, but until you post a different criteria to go off of other than Pew Science, your "opinion" is just wrong). If you want to avoid buying a can from him because of things he said in the past or political stances, that's fine! But to call someone a "shill" because they aren't huffing and puffing at Andrew, my goodness. Grow up.

I'll bet that number is a bit more than 12 before this post. And after reading your whiney assed bullshit post that number will grow my man.

I've sold or transferred a lot of silencers in the last decade, but not a single OCL. I'm not knocking your product because I'm wholly ignorant of it and based on this wall of derp its likely my customers and I will remain that way.

You think AR15 is an echo chamber? That explains a lot.

At least KB is funny when he posts shit.

I think the rabid fanboy stuff started when AAC started Silencertalk. The market for suppressors was taking off and marketing was taking off with it. So much good stuff out there now
and while there are big personalities to go with it, it should always boil down to a good product and a company that stands behind it. I know absolutely nothing about most of the companies
talked about here but if you are getting orders and have happy customers, you are doing it right.

No.  Guys who create an account to join the party are usually shills.

I do not know this Andrew.  I only know what he says and does, and he does not inspire confidence.  I have no axe to grind.

And the Pew Science data found his Plutonium suppress best in one category, worst in another category, and average in the third.  That is honorable mention, but not gold medal.  When he touts his suppressor as the best, it would seem that is not fully truthful, and he has shown the need to push other companies down to raise his product up.

He has lied about his production, claiming he made 4,000 suppressors this year, which cannot be true when he has trouble fulfilling orders on time.

Now, knowing all this, the consumer can make a choice.

I had no real opinion until the last few days when Mr. King started talking and I started reading his posts and what he says about his competitors, how he conducts himself, etc.

I will not be a customer, but he has made it plain that he does not cater to my age group (adults).

This thread just sold me on OCL.

-He created an account to join a conversation he wanted to partake in? What a jerk!

-He doesn't inspire confidence? Maybe not to you. Maybe others don't care what it "inspires". They just wanted a good can at a good price.

-Pew Science gives every suppressor a "composite suppression rating". The Polonium has the best "suppression rating" in it's class. That is a fact. Now, obviously, you can break down the numbers and say "it doesn't do THAT as well, or THIS as well". Absolutely true. And the "composite suppression rating" to my knowledge is a formula that Jay came up with, so it IS somewhat subjective. But he has the number 1 can amongst Pew Science's suppression rating. That's a fact. That will probably change. And that's great for consumers. But OCL is marketing their can, and having the #1 suppression rating on Pew Science is a good marketing tool and something to be proud of. Consumers can break down Jay's data however they want. Consumers have to use Jay's data to see what can fit's their own needs.

-I'm not sure how you know he didn't make 4,000 suppressors? Maybe there is something simple I'm not seeing, like applications for serial numbers or something like that. Honestly don't know. But if you're just basing that on the fact that they are out of stock sometimes, then yikes.

-Again, to you he may conduct himself poorly. To others, he's funny and down to earth. To each their own.

-It seems like OCL is doing fine. Maybe they are not. Who knows. If he's "catering" to the wrong people, it'll eventually catch up to him. There's people that want to feel good about the company they bought from. That's great. Others just want a good can at a good price. That's great. If you're pissed off that he's not working to change his line of thinking or promoting in order to get your business, I'm sorry.

curious what you think of Ron suggesting people buy the OCM5, and saying that he supports it on this very forum, then turning around and talking shit about the company and product in the next breath.

i know almost nothing about Andrew, all i know is he made a can that kicks ass for an incredible price point in a package that rivals KAC, CGS, Deadair, etc built by a couple guys in their garage. what can i say, im a sucker for a good underdog story.

This is true at all levels of healthcare, from paramedics to trauma surgeons. If you get shot, you’re likely to encounter 6 or more people that don’t have their personal lives together within the first hour. Presuming that any of them are good at what they do. There will be divorce, drinking problems, autism, PTSD, bipolar disorder, and all kinds of shit.

I didn't read past the first couple lines, because that was all it took to confirm my running hypothesis.

OCL's owner is an immature child.  Immature children who go up against the ATF and VCF-backed professional corporations do one of two things: (1) lose and go under, or (2) grow up.

Time will tell.

My apologies if that came out wrong; I retract that post and replace it with the below:

"I neither endorse nor oppose their products. For personal reasons, I decline to purchase Griffin products. With that, I have no further comment on the matter.

Any views or opinions represented in this post are personal and belong solely to the poster and do not represent those of people, institutions or organizations that the owner may or may not be associated with in professional or personal capacity, unless explicitly stated. Any views or opinions are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, or individual.

All content provided in this post is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The owner of this post makes no representations as to the accuracy or completeness of any information on this post. The owner will not be liable for any errors or omissions in this information nor for the availability of this information. The owner will not be liable for any losses, injuries, or damages from the display or use of this information."

Lol what?!?