I think once one mentions the possibility of whatever they're about to say sounding condescending it's impossible not to sound condescending lol

SHHHH! You're not supposed to ask what that little unmentioned port is. (Naturally, it was the first thing I asked. "What's this do?")
The question, of course, is if the laser is actually in there, or if it's just got a window for units that do come with that option installed. I'd bet it is installed, but there's got to be some secret hack to turn it on, just like turning on the reticle is a hidden software menu on European non-tactical versions of this optic. I haven't found the cheat code yet. :)

RE: Dovetail that moves things back... I don't have the optic right now, but is all we're looking for a camera-size mount with the two screws, and a dovetail on the other side, but the dovetail located a little more to center?
I'd think the dovetail would have to "float" above the rail on a raised center column or something a little bit taller so it doesn't interfere with mounting screws... dunno. Something like this? Or am I missing something obvious without having the parts in hand?

Or maybe you could get away with cutting out the front to make room for the screw...hmm.


PS: Hi Justin! Been a million years, good to see we're all still alive!

Was the disabled laser supposed to be a secret? The window for it is right there on the unit. Same with the MH25. That information has always been readily available.

…….

The rest of your comments are likely (at least partially) directed at me and my comments about my past experiences running a dual band setup and perhaps specifically my comments about collimation issues with them. If my assumption is true, I welcome the skepticism and encourage people to question everything they read on a forum.

I’ll write a bit of a lengthy post here for the same reason I use this forum: to gather information that may help me. I typically only write here to help inform others. They can definitely take it for what it is. Just my opinion based on some amount of experience.

I spent a great deal of time and effort trying to diagnose the issues I had collimating NV and thermal when I had my MH25 bridge setup. I even tried dialing in the PVS14 to the thermal via rotation of the ocular lens assembly (and vice-versa).
    There’s a reason why units like the breach offer margin adjustments. The MH25 lacked them, which is one of my biggest gripes with it. Units like the Safran COTI also must use margin adjustments so as to match the projected thermal image with your night vision image.

It doesn’t take long to figure out if a binocular night vision system or dual-band setup is not collimated properly. Night vision is a straight pass through system which requires physical adjustments to align the optics (such as what we see in a binocular NV system). A thermal however uses a screen as a representation of what one is seeing, which is a stark contrast to the pass through system of night vision. @Millennial noted that he could not get the images to merge even when he was holding them in his hands. It’s a perfect example of physical adjustments being just one part of the issue, but there is much more to thermal than just the positioning of the housing. The lens and software are detecting and creating an image which is then fed to the screen. The thermal is set from the factory to be fairly well aligned between those systems, but it isn’t a guarantee that the image that is digitized to a screen and then projected to your eye will play well with a pvs14 that is pointed in what you believe to be the same direction.

No one would accept a factory new night vision binocular that caused them to see double of everything. That would be indicative of a night vision system that was not collimated properly.
    I am not willing to deal with the same when using a dual band setup. No amount of brainpower can overcome a setup that is far out of collimation. Some people get lucky with the right combination of their eye spacing, bridge, factory settings on the thermal, and their PVS14. People who get lucky typically only see a few inches of offset at distance when viewing objects.
    This is not the case for the majority of dual band users however. Take a poll from the people that use these setups and you will often find that they are using one at a time, because they can’t use both at the same time due to issues with alignment of the images when used simultaneously. Typically images at distance will appear as doubles. One tree at 15 feet will look like two trees that are several feet apart. That is not a workable image. Others will say they look through both at the same time, but can only focus on one or the other.


Again, not writing to discourage people from trying these setups or saying that no one gets a usable fused image when using both at the same time. I’m just relaying my understanding of how these systems work. In the grand scheme of things, dual band Headborne systems (with 640 Thermal Resolution) are pretty much brand spanking new. Not much thought has been given into the software of these thermal systems to work well bridged with night vision. As time goes on, we may see a change. For now, we are stuck trying to make it work with the available products that are on the market. We are pretty much the Guinea pigs that could lead to future development in the civilian market.


And to the dudes thinking about making 3D printed stuff for the RH25, you rock.



For the guys who only want to helmet mount a RH25, there is a bridge that is purpose made for it
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Step 1: Create successful WTB ad in EE for KVC bridge and obverse shoe set.
Step 2: Profit.



ETA: I didn't see Page 5 before I quoted.  French's Nightwatch mount looks like a great option at first glance: https://samfg.us/product/nightwatch-3-single-infiray-iray-rl25-rh25-helmet-mount-with-folding-arms/

Awesome! Link to place(s) to buy KVC Bridge and OSS?

My friend, those are almost an extinct items, and if you find them expect huge pricing! Been searching the planet for over a month.

Very cool. I assume the reason for mounting the RH upright is to leverage the offset adjust?

What really needs to happen is iRay needs to release the OMS with a software update that allows multiple  X/Y offset profiles in clip-on mode (similar to how we have many stand-alone zero profiles).  That way you can go from helmet to rifle and with the press of a button it can be collimated with NV or zeroed on your rifle.

As it is, the OMS mount without a software update would be kind of dumb because you’d lose the ability to keep it zeroed when sticking it on your rifle.

This 110%

Would there be an issue with that since the focus distance has to stay the same in clip on mode since if you change the focus the POI can shift a lot.

I dont own one of these devices but have seen people talk about the POI changing with the distance focus getting changed.

I'm not sure how easy it is to focus the RH25 to a set distance every time.

Butler Creek 02A

I focus to my maximum realistic shooting distance, 350yards, and then use my butler creek cap as a focus stop. I now just roll the focus all the way until it stops against the battery compartment. Shown by the red arrow in my photo below

At that focus setting, everything from 25y to 350y (and slightly beyond) is in good usable focus. This thing is incredibly forgiving as far as focus adjustments. It takes about 50 degrees of rotation to go from infinity (or at least really really far)  to 10 yards (navigating distances).

Also, this thing is not like a PVS14 depth of field, where if you are focused at a particular distance everything else is super blurry. They managed to give this thing a pretty nice range of focus in any one setting. Really close up is where I find it necessary to adjust focus. But for general use, I could use it at my max distance setting without ever touching the focus dial.

To be 100% transparent, I haven’t shot with it yet, as my unit is still at Iray USA for warranty work. But the whole POI / Focus change issue appears to be a non issue for my uses (if mine even exhibits any of those issues when I go to test)

The cap when open also acts as a quick throw lever

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Thank you for the write up. I just didn't know and was generally curious since id like to add something like this in my toolbox in the near future.

By time I actually get around to getting a thermal like this there will be a newer/better version out probably. It seems the NV and Thermal market keeps getting better and better for the commercial market every year.

Oh, i was being sarcastic.  I just felt pointing out the sarcasm might have … sounded condescending

Out of curiosity, has anyone bought one of the PFalcon 640s from Canada which, from what I’ve seen, is exactly the same thing?

Drop us some links/info........

https://coldharboursupply.com

I picked up some Jerry c5 accessories there. Only thing stopping me on the falcon is the number of people posting they sent their rh25 back to Iray. And that ain't gonna happen on the falcon.

the c5 ECOTI was worth the risk, it is a gamble anyway that they would fix an off warranty ECOTI at 3x the price, but the rh25 is (IMHO) close enough in price to keep the warranty.

Yeah, same place I looked at. Do you know what people have been sending them back for?

Just what I read on this forum, snipershide, and Reddit, mostly, could be just the one dude! This is such a niche item that it is all anecdotal. I don't think it is any worse than any other niche electronic item, and probably better, and I'm looking forward to ordering mine.

I am in no way saying "omg all these people having problems", but for this unit there is a US option that isn't that much more expensive to get a full warranty and support without trying to send a grey market unit outside of the US and violating the law . For the iray Jerry c5 there is just no other option (at the time I bought in like January) than a 9K ecoti with a 1 year warranty, and if I ended up with a paperweight so be it. Not the first time I lost my shirt on a thermal unit.

Now if the Canadian dollar drops, well then the risk/reward may be a bit different.

right now the differential is about $1700 for a 5 year warranty, $340 a year.

Mine is at Iray USA right now for the following issues:

1: "Rolling Shutter"/"Jell-O Picture" whenever used in helmet mode. Firmware update unsuccessful per instructions found here... https://irayusa.com/firmware-update-with-pc-instructions/. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mksbks2jyp7lkmw/1019900136_RH25_20220418_0108LowDelay.img?dl=1 (update download) shows as a corrupted file. Unable to save download.
    Step four http://192.168.11.123/ URL will not access the firmware update screen. Ping of unit IP address shows successful WiFi connection during this process. WiFi connection is usable on the mobile app as part of the troubleshooting process. Attempted Firmware update via the App but was unsuccessful (unit would turn off but not restart).

2: Unit failed to connect to computer using the supplied USB cable. The unit would never show up on the recognized device list. Unable to download photo and video due to this issue. Photo and video are accessible however through the Mobile App.

3: Unit will sporadically switch to helmet mode and back to stand-alone/handheld mode (when starting from stand-alone/handheld mode). It flickers between modes within seconds without being prompted to (not due to menu selection or roll over positioning of unit)

4: Compass moves through then entire range of degrees even when the unit is kept in one position. Probably a minor issue, compass calibration needed. Figured I would mention it anyways

Dang lol that’s not promising. Anyone else with issues?

@BBOHACH

I see no one else chiming in, but wanted to update on my situation.



Long story short, Iray USA sent me a brand new unit that exhibited the same exact issues I mentioned previously (Issues #1 & #3). When they shipped the new unit, they didn't tell me they were sending it nor did they provide tracking. I came back from a trip out of town to find the package sitting outside my house. Had it been stolen, I'm sure they wouldn't do anything to take care of me. They only insured it for $1K.

Again, the new unit did the same exact thing as far as the jello picture and update issues I listed previously.

To make matters worse, they kept my old unit that had the pictail adapter and my butler creek cap. They didn't bother returning those items. So now I am waiting for them to find my stuff and send it back.

My advice:
If your main reason for purchasing this unit is to helmet mount it, avoid it like the plague. It's not going to be fun looking around while your image is basically bending every time you scan left or right.
    If your unit doesn't take the update correctly like both of mine, there is no other fix being offered at this time by Iray USA. Mind you, they had the opportunity to check my work and attempt an update themselves while my unit was in for warranty. They didn’t or couldn’t.


If you are buying this unit to rifle mount it in any way, it still looks like a promising option for the money. Because mine went in for warranty, I haven't even gotten in to live fire testing with it. So my experience in that use case isn't going  to provide much valuable insight yet.

It’s a new product, and exhibits issues that I believe will take at least 1-2 months to correct if their software people actually start working on it today. Otherwise, expect to have issues and wait for additional software updates in the next 6mo-1yr

If you have one without the Jello/Rolling shutter issue then Rock on. But both units I received new in box have it really bad (as do many others).

Appreciate the feedback and insight. It is helpful.

IMO, it’s nice as a clip on or stand-alone.  Very compact compared to other sub-$8k options. It lets you keep your rifles mostly set up the same for day/night without playing musical-optics.  And I like the fact that it can be clipped onto your helmet dovetail for easy hands free scanning. I think its 1X 640res capability pairs well with an AR’s effective ranges.

The rolling shutter delay isn’t really an issue unless you’re trying to run around or navigate with it, which to be honest is better left to NV rather than thermal anyways.  I notice it if I’m looking to notice it, but it doesn’t bother me much.  And the objective-focus zero-shift “issue” is really rather a minor annoyance than a real world problem; it’s easily worked around with the iRay cat tail focus ring or a butler creek cap to ensure consistent positioning.

So both of it’s “issues” could range from no big deal to deal breakers depending on your sensitivity to them.  They do knock a bit of luster off of a $6k purchase, but to be honest it’s still a completely workable 3-in-1 solution that nothing else comes close to doing for the price.

French pretty much nailed it; the RH25 is better moreso on the rifle than off of it but can be used as a decent scanner.  IMO, if you want more of a HMT that can occasionally be used WMT, just get separate scanner & scope like a 1.5x25 Yoter ($3500) paired an MH25 ($4k) or other HMT (ML19, AGM,  Breach, etc.).

Also, I’m excited to try this combo coming up…

So I bought a BoBro Double Decker mount to be able to put the RH25 and EXPS on the same plane but still keep my red dot high enough for NVG use without the thermal attached.  The BoBro mount is more or less an elongated Unity Fast Riser except at .625” instead of .665” high.  The .040 difference is pretty negligible with that big EOtech window.



Based on my EXPS and RH25 measurments, the RH25 on a 5/8” riser should line up almost perfectly with a Unity FTC magnifier and I’ve personally confirmed that a RH25 on a pictail mount works great through an EXPS on the same plane (with a 3x magnifier).

EXPS window 1.325-2.050 (1.688” center)
RH25+Pictail Eyepiece 1.615
5/8” Bobro+EXPS 1.950-2.675 (2.313” center)
5/8” Bobro+RH25 2.240”
Unity FTC magnifier 2.260”

The RH25 & pictail/adm combo puts the centerline of the optic right at 1.57 height. Measured with my digital calipers the last time I had it mounted.

Regardless, what you want to do should work just fine. There is some forgiveness with the margin adjustments within the RH25


Also
@BBOHACH

My new replacement unit is exhibiting far worse issues than my first one.

In short, the unit freezes whenever the reticle zero option is selected. Must pull the battery to turn unit off.
    Also has a bad glitch with the zoom features now. I almost want to attribute these issues to the firmware update.

https://imgur.com/a/ELQ5VNZ

That’s the only video I have short enough to post. Shows the zoom issue.

Again this was a new in box unit that was within the first 24 hours of operation

I mean… I’m not quite sure what to say. Maybe ours are different? Here is mine measured on a YHM rail section.

Top of ocular ring to top of rail: 2.273”
Ocular ring diameter: 1.318”
2.273 - (1.318 / 2) = 1.614”

The calipers even look more well centered at 1.614” vs 1.57”

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Yeesh… that ain’t right.

The zoom on mine smoothly (digital aproximation, I’m sure) zooms in and out like you were turning a manual zoom ring.

At this point maybe they’ll just issue a refund…

Thanks for posting. I measured the same way. Odd.

Once I get my pictail mount back from IRay USA, I’ll double check.

Man that suuuucks.  Sorry to hear.  You have had some awful luck it seems.  Will these units take a firmware update more than once?  Maybe try to go back a rev.  Idk just spitballing.

From everything I have seen, the RH sitting on the ADM mount puts it in line with a 1.7" scope mount height which is in line with what @millenial measured.

I have an EXPS, so I’m not too worried whether it’s 1.57 or even 1.75” … the EXPS windows are huge.  It probably matters more with something like a AP Micro.

I’m just thrilled the RH25 should be within about 1/2 mm of a Unity FTC mount.  Then again… I actually bought a SpecPrecision Aimpoint 2.26” FTC chinesium knockoff to test this out with.  So who knows what’s showing up.  I just figured real unity 30mm FTC black mounts are tough to find in stock and this lets me test the theory cheaply. Who knows; maybe the knockoff will be fine. A lot of the knockoff NVG gear isn’t bad at all for the money.

In hindsight, I should have gotten the LaRue 5/8” QD riser.  $30 cheaper, offers QD, and probably easier to resale.  But I think the Bobro is a slot or two longer, mounts more solidly and I think looks better.

Here is a 1.70 Badger mount and the RH25. I’m still of the opinion it’s closer to the 1.57 height, although Mellenials measurements show slightly higher. I’m starting to wonder if there are unintentional varying thickness of the pictail adapters that have been produced

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@ThisWildAdventure

Figured this was relevant since you specifically asked about a double firmware update.


Iray USA thinks the update did in fact screw up unit #2. They claim that only the very first batch of units (units 1-40) had the jello image and thus needed an update. The units made after January of this year come with the update installed already. They think doubling the update caused my issue with unit #2.

They told me that none of the newer units purchased after January should have the jello image because they are already updated. Imo, your mileage may vary however as to wether or not a new unit has the rolling shutter issue.

I think this is going to work well… The Bobro mount is lighter than I thought, nicely skeletonized.  And the EXPS/RH25 combo uses every bit of length… so an LT101 5/8” riser would have been too short by 1 slot.

When I hand hold the magnifier right behind the EXPS, it is completely filled with thermal screen; full magnifier field of view (~7 deg).  Not bad at all and decently usable. All I need to do now is wait for the 2.26” magnifier mount to show up. Looks like there’s just enough room behind the riser for the 3X mount once I ditch the irons.

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Do any ARFCOM sponsors offer a discount to members on these?

Unsure.

I was able to get mine through Eurooptics military discount which knocked off around $500

For anyone on the fence trying to wade through the sea of various opinions on the RH: here is a raw video of what to expect in actual use.

I have been bike hunting with this bridged with a -14 since I got it. Some sections are down smooth roads but most are rough ranch roads, cattle trail and some just plain ass cross country. Always scanning in a Z search technique in the dark at speeds up to 40mph.

This footage is from a unit as delivered first week in July from a direct support IrayUSA dealer. No firmware upgrades etc. it’s boring as a bridge tournament and has a couple equipment fights with a bar mounted gun rack that got knocked out of alignment but it’s honest uncut video of what you get in the field.

Speaking of firmware upgrades. In almost 3 years I’ve never done a single one on any device I own. If it’s broke to the point I think I can’t live with it it goes back to the dealer.

Regarding IrayUSA device connection failure I can state that There are entirely too many variables for me to be comfortable with for me to take the time to wade into it. As a simple example I have 2 MacBooks. My RH connected and was recognized by only one of them. I have a Rico MK1 that isn’t recognized by my old work windows machine as well. That was determined to be the security software. I’d expect somewhere on the MacBook that won’t connect to my new rh there’s a browser or security issue that isn’t allowing it to work. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised failed firmware upgrades mentioned elsewhere in this thread are end user or equipment error as well. The odds just aren’t likely that the same user is getting all these bad devices that can’t take an upgrade.

I think you may have skimmed over my posts. Based on your comments, you don’t seem to know what troubles I was having. Connectivity wasn’t the main issue in my case. Both my units took the update, but the updates did nothing to fix the rolling shutter issue. Iray USA are the ones that think the update killed the 2nd one.
   
Iray has confirmed the issues with my units and are sending me a third. If it was simple user error, they wouldn’t be sending me a third unit, nor would they have sent a second unit. I can assure they don’t send multiple new in box $6k thermals to customers who can’t figure out a simple update. They would just update/fix the customers first unit and return it.

I also posted a video of my unit showing one of the issues it had. The other videos are too long to upload here, but I did send them to Iray USA. I’ll happily send an email to anyone who wants to see my reticle disappear and the unit completely freeze whenever the reticle zero menu is accessed. That means the unit is not usable as a stand-alone weapon sight.

The zoom issue video is here: https://imgur.com/a/ELQ5VNZ
That’s a hard one to claim user error on

If I was a RH25 hater, I would have just gotten a refund instead of dealing with Iray USA for a few weeks.

Don’t let your warm and fuzzy feeling about your working unit blind you to the possibility that others are having serious problems with these units. My units aren’t necessarily a reflection of their overall quality either, and could be isolated problems (I hope so). I’m posting my experience in hopes that it informs or helps someone else.

post # 18 on this page

"2: Unit failed to connect to computer using the supplied USB cable. The unit would never show up on the recognized device list. Unable to download photo and video due to this issue. Photo and video are accessible however through the Mobile App."

Post #36 on this page

"Connectivity wasn't the issue."

I'm not sure I would make that claim even if I could get a upgrade successful message. It's not like this would be the first time in the history that a successful upgrade had installed something that was corrupted in download. It would seem apparent that the source file is not the problem if all these other people running the same version don't have the same issues you're experiencing. wifi upgrades have always been the devil.

I'd agree, with the video you provided made the device unusable after you attempted to update the firmware via the ap. No argument with that. Key point I gathered, and what sounds like the only common denominator you shared, is that the real trainwrecks happened AFTER you attempted the updates for your perceived jello distortion.

Do you have video that you can post of the issues prior to your attempts at updates?

If you do you should easily be able to download the clips from the mobile ap and trim them to a usable length to post from whatever phone you have.

Post #36 on this page

"Connectivity wasn't the main issue." My exact words, not edited after you posted either.

There is not much I can do for you bud. You can read all my posts (here and on snipers hide), but I can't do anything to help your reading comprehension. I am also not going to hijack this thread by posting 3 weeks worth of troubleshooting and communication I did with Iray USA which included me using command prompt to ping the IP address of unit #1 showing it had a perfect wifi connection (something you seemed to have skimmed over or do not understand about post #36). Everything I posted is a condensed summary of what happened with my units, and is written in order of old to new information (as it became apparent and available to me through what troubleshooting and testing I did).

I will post a quick update shortly after I get unit #3 this wednesday if anyone is interested. I may resort to stick figures or a crayon colored diagram for dzhitshard. If unit #3 has any issues, I'll make a detailed youtube video (which may take a while) about all three units and my experince with Iray USA.

In the meantime, here is my reticle/menu issue with unit #2 after the firmware update (Same unit that had the zoom glitch):
https://youtu.be/Y5CtVvOuOOU

I’ll wait for the self proclaimed electric scooter God and thermal Genius, dzhitshard, to tell me which of my user errors caused the issues in this video. Only he is worthy and smart enough to click the 3 buttons that work this unit

If you ask what caused that issue it is an easy answer. You tried updating firmware and it failed to take the file properly causing more issue.

I'm not implying that you're too retarded to do a firmware update. I'm saying shit happens on wifi updates ALL THE TIME and shit obviously happened on yours. You may want to consider that the RH's wifi antenna is receiving an upgrade and they are probably doing that for a reason. Say. . . maybe a stability reason.

btw, I thought we were not doing the personal attacks on ARF anymore?

Once again

Do you have video that you can post of the issues prior to your attempts at updates?

If you do you should easily be able to download the clips from the mobile ap and trim them to a usable length to post from whatever phone you have.

If you can provide clips with the faults you're claiming it would help potential buyers see what you were complaining about as a baseline before you started putting your finger in the pie. The faults that appeared after your attempted updates are another story.

To be honest I don't care about helping you as an individual in the least bit. Unlike your experiences with the RH and MH I can make mine work and I pass the information and proof of success on to others. I don't need anything you offer on this board and generally scan right past your posts along with several other of the cliquie club post a lots. Feel free to do the same my man. It won't hurt my feelings a bit. Just post the clips so the other guys can know what you had when you started with.

Stop asking for stuff. I’m not accepting homework assignments from you.

You are a softy if my stick figure and crayon comments really triggered you

#personalattack #emotionaldamage
——————————————————-

For everyone else, I’ll post an update of unit three once I get it.


Here is the rolling shutter issue posted by someone else on YouTube. My original unit was sent in for this, and specifically because the firmware update didn’t correct it. Mine (units 1 & 2) were about 2-3x more noticeable than what this video portrays:https://youtu.be/g2PjHQ1YOlk

In true “cliquie club post-a-lot” fashion…

As expected unit #3 has the rolling shutter issue. I’m on board with several others who believe they all have it. Iray USA refuses to acknowledge that it still exists. How big of a deal is it? That’s for each user to decide on. I’m going to use mine as is, because I’m tired of dealing with Iray USA and everything else seems to be working fine on this unit #3. I’ll wait another year and see if they come up with a real firmware update. I don’t recommend anyone listen to Iray USA and use the current firmware update because of the issues I had with unit #2.


@GunnyFitz
The $130 Chinese Wilcox bridges turned out to be money well spent. They easily fit side by side and I can adjust them perfectly for IPD. Per usual, the RH25 must be over the right eye due to fitment issues. If you wanted to go from helmet to rifle quickly, you would need to run it that way anyways as a right handed shooter (unless you wanted to articulate your NV out of the way for a thermal shot)

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I was able to collimate my thermal image to my pvs14 for a usable “fusion” experience. You must use the margin adjustments to dial it in. These are the margin settings that worked for me (everyone’s will probably be different):
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If you wanted to switch between a collimated image and rifle clip-on, you need to memorize your margin adjustment settings. Otherwise just keep it adjusted for your rifle as a clip-on and put on a helmet without collimating to your NV (just running it as needed or by itself instead of trying to look through NV & thermal at the same time). My issue with the MH25 was no margin adjustments, so I could never run it with NV at the same time.



As far as height when rifle mounted, 1.54 is a bit low as expected but perfectly usable. 1.57 is probably just right
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I don´t know how a software-update is supposed to help with the rolling-shutter "issue". A rolling-shutter will always be a rolling-shutter. It´s nearly a hardware-feature. It´s the way the sensor is read out. With a global-shutter the sensor is read out completly at a given point in time. With a rolling-shutter, the sensor is read out line by line or column by column. So the shift in time it takes to do that translates directly in shifts/distortions in the pictures taken with that type of sensor-readout. The only thing they could do would be to speed up the sensor´s readout-time. Which would minimize the effects (the distortions) but not bring these down to global-shutter level. And the question is if the current hardware of the RH25 is capable to be tweaked direction sensor readout-speed at all.

Does the MH25 have a rolling- or a global-shutter?

You seem to bring some knowledge to the table, and I won’t pretend to know the ins and outs of thermal software.

What I do know is this…

I never had any perception that it was a rolling shutter with the MH25. The image never distorted when panning my head left to right. The 3 RH25s I used had/have pretty severe distortion (however the image stabilizes whenever you stop moving). Someone on a different forum said they did notice a very minimal amount of distortion with the MH25.

The reason it is a real “issue” in my opinion is pretty simple. The image distorts when looking around. It is very noticeable, distracting, and not really a positive attribute.
    A couple guys bought 2 RH25s to use as binoculars. One user, Horta on Snipershide, basically said they are unusable and nauseating to use and look through. So $12K wasted in his case, because that was his sole reason for purchasing them.

I have come to terms with it and will say that it won’t effect me much. Mine will be bridged with a 14 but rifle mounted most of the time.

I simply want to hold Iray somewhat accountable for releasing a product that has very noticiable image distortion (that they initially acknowledged) which wasn’t present on the MH25 and for releasing what I believe to be a shoddy firmware update for.

My reason for continuing to bring it up is to educate people and hopefully prevent someone from having the same issues I did with a double update (or simply a corrupted update file. It shows as corrupted on my PC).

You helped educate me just by responding @Schrotthaufen, as I didn’t know about different shutter types.


If it was a dealbreaker for me, I would have gotten a refund by now. I like the unit, and I’m not trying to bash it.

It’s only an issue when using the RH25 upside down, which is not unusual for some displays like this. If they just released and shipped the helmet dovetail mount that screws into the other side of the unit, you’d probly be happy as a clam.
See similar issue where a cellphone was designed with an upside down screen - jelly scrolling: https://www.engadget.com/2017-06-30-oneplus-5s-jelly-scrolling-upside-down-screen.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/video/tips-and-solutions/rolling-shutter-versus-global-shutter

You definitely piqued my interest about the shutter subject. I have no experience with cameras so this info is all new to me. Pretty interesting. Definitely seems inherent in the design and choice of image sensors. A software fix doesn’t seem like it applies. Also makes sense why they all seem to have it.

There’s a screen offset in helmet mode?

I know there’s offset in clip on mode (for zeroing), but once it flips upside down it goes to helmet mode.

EDIT:
I just checked mine out. Yes, you can adjust X/Y position in helmet mode, but it stores the same X/Y for both clipon and helmet mode… if you adjust the helmet mode for fusion then you lose your clip-on zero. That’s lame… they need to fix that. I get 87 different stand-alone zero profiles and only 1 screen offset for two different modes?!?

Only way I see that being beneficial is if you use it for helmet and stand-alone rifle only.

@Millennial

As mentioned in my post (showing the margin adjustment photo), I just plan on keeping the numbers written down or memorized. It takes about 30 seconds to do a margin adjustment.

I totally agree that they should have offered multiple profiles, but it’s not a huge deal to make the adjustments as needed.


I’m glad that they at least thought about the transferring of margin settings from clip-on to helmet modes. Without it, I wouldn’t have been able to get any fusion with mine. I spent some more time last night getting it dialed in. I look at objects at distance that are easy to distinguish with both NV & thermal. I check the images to see how close the overlap is in what I am seeing, and adjust until the thermal appears to overlap perfectly. Objects like fence lines are good for gauging vertical alignment, while vertical objects like a flag pole or a tree are good for gauging horizontal alignment. It sometimes requires closing and opening one eye, or stowing the units for a few seconds to take a break and relax your eyes. It’s kinda like a “zeroing” process. It’s a little tedious with the RH25 because you have to go in to clip-on mode (upright) to do the adjustments and then back to helmet (inverted) to test, and repeat.

An example below (although it’s NV only). You are trying to adjust as close as you can get to a collimated image.

Before adjusting:
Attached File


After adjusting:
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I don’t remember ever seeing a single post about anyone bringing up this subject with dual band setups. I think a lot of people have been trying to make their setup work without considering this, and being disappointed or unaware that it could be made much better by doing the above process. Some thermals like the MH25 don’t even have these adjustments (if I remember correctly). It makes me wonder how anyone used them with decent results.

Yeah, I’m going to collimate it tonight in helmet and write it down.  It’s at least useful to know.

I suppose I could run thermal on my left and PVS on my right with the fake Wilcox. Then I can run dual band but still aim passive on an RDS if I want… if I want to clip on, just roll up the NV or pop it on the left eye.

I should just get a COTI eventually… damn this is expensive lol.

Thermal on left, NV on right doesn’t work for me and my fake Wilcox bridge. The battery housings of the units both face inward, and they contact eachother long before any type of usable image can be had through either. Unless you have the eye spacing of a horse it probably won’t work.

Although using one at a time is perfectly doable, rotating one up and out if the way before rotating the other down. I actually bought two bridges for this very reason, and color coded them for whichever unit is going over my primary eye. Tan bridge for RH25 right eye, black for pvs14 right eye. The eye spacing settings are adjusted and locked on each so I don’t have to mess with bridge settings if I want to switch how I’m using it.

It also allows me to separate them and break the bridges in half (using the big thumb screws) for running separately on two helmets. Essentially turning the bridge into a J arm for each unit.

Attached File


Attached File


For $130 each these bridges are a hell of a bargain. There’s isn’t anything as versatile for the price.

Ahh crap, you’re right. I was remembering it backwards: