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Posted: 10/2/2024 4:09:57 PM EDT
With all the new Green PVS-14's being sold out from the popular sources (new stock), I have been watching the various White tubes while I save more money.
I am seeing some L3/Harris Unfilmed tubes listed as 18um and some as 20um. I assume the 18um are new spec tubes but, don't know how this works or if it even matters. FWIW, I will most likely stick to JRH or TNVC for me future purchase but, there are a couple other well respected shops I check periodically too. Then there is the Elbit M23H available from JRH, how does this one compare? TIA, Sid |
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[#1]
I should add recoil resistance. I plan on using it with a KAC SR-25 but, not a 50BMG in addition to more normal stuff like supporting my thermal or vice versa.
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[#3]
Tube series is just a minimum. From my understanding the lowest graded tube in the lot designates how they are classified. Example, I bought a filmless pvs 14 this spring based on specs. It was an 18UM on the spec sheet but exceeded the specs on the chart above of even a 2200 series.
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[Last Edit: sidpost]
[#4]
Originally Posted By TNVC_Riley: Firstly, thank you for the confidence. And just so I can help answer your questions better, are you talking about weapon mounting a PVS-14 or are you considering these tubes for a dedicated clip-on housing? Thanks in advance View Quote I would do a Clip-on for any weapons mount, along with whatever I need for general surveillance and, for limited use doing astronomy with my friend who spends a lot of time photographing deep space things. When he builds a dedicated telescope, a PVS-14 mount of some sort is likely too so we can find faint deep space objects without long frame exposures from a camera (think aiming and getting it dialed in). I don't see a helmet mount in my future either. My main uses will be clipping it to a rail of something like a Ruger 10/22 to smoke small critters or my SR-25 for big ones. I don't want to pull off any day optics on my rifles routinely. Seasonal changes as the targets change their behavior would be when I would move optics around and re-zero things. With the Thermal versus NV back and forth, I will likely leave my zeroed thermal on "its" rifle and move the PVS-14 as needed but, that is a work in progress and needs more thought. Once I have it in hand, I am sure things will change because sweeping my Thermal Rifle to find a heat signature won't work well, and on a full moon night I will probably want to use the PVS-14 in preference to the Thermal so, two rifles seems very impractical and basically unworkable. Plus, if I have a snake I'm hunting, the thermal isn't going to do anything for me and a good 22LR is probably a better option than a centerfire rifle. I had a Copperhead snake encounter on the sidewalk to my back patio under sodium lights one time and that could have ended badly. Turning off the orange lights and using a really good PVS-14 is probably a better option. |
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[#5]
Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Tube series is just a minimum. From my understanding the lowest graded tube in the lot designates how they are classified. Example, I bought a filmless pvs 14 this spring based on specs. It was an 18UM on the spec sheet but exceeded the specs on the chart above of even a 2200 series. View Quote Correct |
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Deputy Director of Commercial Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC. http://www.tnvc.com [email protected] (909) 796-7000 Ex. 610 |
[#6]
Originally Posted By sidpost: I would do a Clip-on for any weapons mount, along with whatever I need for general surveillance and, for limited use doing astronomy with my friend who spends a lot of time photographing deep space things. When he builds a dedicated telescope, a PVS-14 mount of some sort is likely too so we can find faint deep space objects without long frame exposures from a camera (think aiming and getting it dialed in). I don't see a helmet mount in my future either. My main uses will be clipping it to a rail of something like a Ruger 10/22 to smoke small critters or my SR-25 for big ones. I don't want to pull off any day optics on my rifles routinely. Seasonal changes as the targets change their behavior would be when I would move optics around and re-zero things. With the Thermal versus NV back and forth, I will likely leave my zeroed thermal on "its" rifle and move the PVS-14 as needed but, that is a work in progress and needs more thought. Once I have it in hand, I am sure things will change because sweeping my Thermal Rifle to find a heat signature won't work well, and on a full moon night I will probably want to use the PVS-14 in preference to the Thermal so, two rifles seems very impractical and basically unworkable. Plus, if I have a snake I'm hunting, the thermal isn't going to do anything for me and a good 22LR is probably a better option than a centerfire rifle. I had a Copperhead snake encounter on the sidewalk to my back patio under sodium lights one time and that could have ended badly. Turning off the orange lights and using a really good PVS-14 is probably a better option. View Quote Just to confirm your terms are matching expectations - a night vision clip on device is something like a KAC UNS-LR-A3 which is a dedicated clip on nod intended for weapon use and it goes in front of a magnified day scope. PVS-14s need to be mounted behind an optic and work best with a 1x sight such as an EOtech or Aimpoint due to light transmission and space. Basically, it would replace where a magnifier would go, and we make the TNVC TM14 which uses the Aimpoint twist mount base so users can switch between their magnifier and a PVS-14. It is a lower 1/3 mount. Honestly, if you're kiling critters then I'd go with a thermal instead. |
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Deputy Director of Commercial Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC. http://www.tnvc.com [email protected] (909) 796-7000 Ex. 610 |
[#7]
Semi down because of the hurricane hitting us hard here, still limited cell, no power, net, etc.
We are very low on M23H and 20UM grade tubes. We do have units in stock and now shipping services in our area are back up and running as of today, so we are current on orders. |
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www.jrhenterprises.com
Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business! Quickest ways to contact us- 912.375.1480 [email protected] |
[#8]
The best tube I’ve ever seen was an 18UM and I’ve seen people pay extra for 24UAs that I would have passed on for regular price. Don't get hung up on tube grade at all, pick a vendor that will let you spec tubes and ask where you can get greedy and where you will be waiting a long time for a tube.
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[#9]
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The best tube I've ever seen was an 18UM and I've seen people pay extra for 24UAs that I would have passed on for regular price. Don't get hung up on tube grade at all, pick a vendor that will let you spec tubes and ask where you can get greedy and where you will be waiting a long time for a tube. View Quote Hence my preference for TNVC and JRH! Both are solid sources with a long track record of taking care of customers and delivering premium products at a fair price. |
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[#10]
Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Semi down because of the hurricane hitting us hard here, still limited cell, no power, net, etc. We are very low on M23H and 20UM grade tubes. We do have units in stock and now shipping services in our area are back up and running as of today, so we are current on orders. View Quote Glad to hear things are improving. I'm not in a super big hurry to get my new PVS-14 and need to set some more money aside for a more expensive (and better) unit today. I'll reach out to you once the smoke and dust settles out your direction and you get a chance to catch your breath after the storm clean up. |
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[Last Edit: sidpost]
[#11]
Originally Posted By TNVC_Will: PVS-14s need to be mounted behind an optic and work best with a 1x sight such as an EOtech or Aimpoint due to light transmission and space. Basically, it would replace where a magnifier would go, and we make the TNVC TM14 which uses the Aimpoint twist mount base so users can switch between their magnifier and a PVS-14. It is a lower 1/3 mount. Honestly, if you're kiling critters then I'd go with a thermal instead. View Quote The thermal works really well when you have something like my Trijicon IR Hunter MK3-60mm but, it isn't ideal for every situation. I am still coming up to speed on PVS-14's. My prior experience was a long time ago with a Gen3 PVS-4 and some PVS-7B binoculars (not in military service). What you suggest sounds like I'm best off letting it do primary duty on my 22LR varminter with an Aimpoint where shot distances aren't too great. Point of aim shouldn't be an issue since the Aimpoint is fixed so, moving it around becomes much simpler. I could always set up a new AR-15 upper with a LPVO or Aimpoint and the PVS-14 which would be fine for dogs and larger vermin away from the house, barns, stalls, etc. I'm not a huge 300BO fan, but a "cheap'ish" reliable 300BO AR-15 might be a good option here too with the ranges I would need it for shooting vermin and dogs at night. And yes, I'm trying to come up to speed on the PVS-14 thing. Perhaps I need to rethink getting a dedicated NV scope but, then I lose on the versatility of being able to use it for other purposes and different rifles. Jack of all trades, and master of none though might be true in my use case with a PVS-14. In terms of expectations, I'm trying to identify all the ways I would use it, and how much so I get the right tool. A second cheap thermal appropriate for close encounters might be worth reconsidering. The problem I have is memories of using that old FLIR with the 19mm lens and older sensor. Clearly identifying things was not a given plus it was a heavy brick even on an AR-15, so use with a 22LR wouldn't be reasonable for me. Perhaps one of the newer Bering Optics, Pulsar, AGM, ... thermals would be better. The N-Vision NOX PVS-14'ish unit is one I considered before I got the Trijicon. However today, at $6200 is a hard price point for me. With that BAE sensor though, I bet it is an awesome option for someone with deep enough pockets. Hmm, that NOX unit might be the best for me even at an additional $2200~$2700. |
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[Last Edit: sidpost]
[#12]
The real problem is I have gone from a good Green tubed PVS-14 to a more premium white tube PVS-14. Getting back into the >$6K thermal range is way beyond where I started.
I guess I need to investigate where Bering Optics is today along with Infiray, Pulsar, etc. in the $1500~$2500 range targeted for close work. |
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[#13]
Originally Posted By sidpost: The thermal works really well when you have something like my Trijicon IR Hunter MK3-60mm but, it isn't ideal for every situation. I am still coming up to speed on PVS-14's. My prior experience was a long time ago with a Gen3 PVS-4 and some PVS-7B binoculars (not in military service). What you suggest sounds like I'm best off letting it do primary duty on my 22LR varminter with an Aimpoint where shot distances aren't too great. Point of aim shouldn't be an issue since the Aimpoint is fixed so, moving it around becomes much simpler. I could always set up a new AR-15 upper with a LPVO or Aimpoint and the PVS-14 which would be fine for dogs and larger vermin away from the house, barns, stalls, etc. I'm not a huge 300BO fan, but a "cheap'ish" reliable 300BO AR-15 might be a good option here too with the ranges I would need it for shooting vermin and dogs at night. And yes, I'm trying to come up to speed on the PVS-14 thing. Perhaps I need to rethink getting a dedicated NV scope but, then I lose on the versatility of being able to use it for other purposes and different rifles. Jack of all trades, and master of none though might be true in my use case with a PVS-14. In terms of expectations, I'm trying to identify all the ways I would use it, and how much so I get the right tool. A second cheap thermal appropriate for close encounters might be worth reconsidering. The problem I have is memories of using that old FLIR with the 19mm lens and older sensor. Clearly identifying things was not a given plus it was a heavy brick even on an AR-15, so use with a 22LR wouldn't be reasonable for me. Perhaps one of the newer Bering Optics, Pulsar, AGM, ... thermals would be better. The N-Vision NOX PVS-14'ish unit is one I considered before I got the Trijicon. However today, at $6200 is a hard price point for me. With that BAE sensor though, I bet it is an awesome option for someone with deep enough pockets. Hmm, that NOX unit might be the best for me even at an additional $2200~$2700. View Quote Look at a Rix leap L3. A little heavy but really nice bang for your buck thermal. New they are$2300. |
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[Last Edit: TNVC_Riley]
[#14]
Originally Posted By sidpost: The thermal works really well when you have something like my Trijicon IR Hunter MK3-60mm but, it isn't ideal for every situation. I am still coming up to speed on PVS-14's. My prior experience was a long time ago with a Gen3 PVS-4 and some PVS-7B binoculars (not in military service). What you suggest sounds like I'm best off letting it do primary duty on my 22LR varminter with an Aimpoint where shot distances aren't too great. Point of aim shouldn't be an issue since the Aimpoint is fixed so, moving it around becomes much simpler. I could always set up a new AR-15 upper with a LPVO or Aimpoint and the PVS-14 which would be fine for dogs and larger vermin away from the house, barns, stalls, etc. I'm not a huge 300BO fan, but a "cheap'ish" reliable 300BO AR-15 might be a good option here too with the ranges I would need it for shooting vermin and dogs at night. And yes, I'm trying to come up to speed on the PVS-14 thing. Perhaps I need to rethink getting a dedicated NV scope but, then I lose on the versatility of being able to use it for other purposes and different rifles. Jack of all trades, and master of none though might be true in my use case with a PVS-14. In terms of expectations, I'm trying to identify all the ways I would use it, and how much so I get the right tool. A second cheap thermal appropriate for close encounters might be worth reconsidering. The problem I have is memories of using that old FLIR with the 19mm lens and older sensor. Clearly identifying things was not a given plus it was a heavy brick even on an AR-15, so use with a 22LR wouldn't be reasonable for me. Perhaps one of the newer Bering Optics, Pulsar, AGM, ... thermals would be better. The N-Vision NOX PVS-14'ish unit is one I considered before I got the Trijicon. However today, at $6200 is a hard price point for me. With that BAE sensor though, I bet it is an awesome option for someone with deep enough pockets. Hmm, that NOX unit might be the best for me even at an additional $2200~$2700. View Quote To build on what Will has posted, and to hopefully get you up to speed on modern PVS-14 setups: The first question and determining factor should always be... "what do you plan on using it for?" You've laid out some good specific use cases such as "general surveillance, and for limited use doing astronomy" as well as small game hunting/pest control and it's sounds like some general preparedness is in there as well. With that out of the way, I can definitely say that a good PVS-14 will fill those roles rather nicely. They are great for navigation, astronomy, surveillance, and helmet mounted shooting at closer distances (with help from your choice of a quality red dot or IR laser device) For the most part, weapon mounting of PVS-14s is a thing of the past. This is a result of a few reasons, and some of them tie into your goal of not having to reconfigure existing rifle setups that are already zeroed with day optics etc, deal with rail space issues, and ideally not spending more money on a new dedicated upper for night vision use only. To clear things up further, PVS-14s don't really do well behind magnified optics. There are some exceptions like a TA31 ACOG or 3x magnifiers, but it's still not great and it's typically only done in a pinch. You won't be looking through an LPVO or other scopes with great results. Behind a red dot is where they work best. Helmet mounting a PVS-14 allows you to simply aim through any good night vision compatible red dot. It doesn't need to be married to one of your uppers. This gets rid of recoil concerns altogether, and for the most part doesn't require reconfiguring a new upper and optic setup (typically just a taller mount if you already have a quality red dot). If you don't mind investing further, an IR laser is a great option to add to a rifle, and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg either. The Tor-Mini IR VPC we sell takes up almost no rail space and I believe it's on sale currently for $115. You can definitely plink some critters with it. When you don't want to use it helmet mounted, simply remove it and use it as a handled scanner or thread it on to a telescope adapter for astronomy. If you want to scratch the astronomy thing and don't need something to navigate with then a thermal is definitely going to be superior for killing critters. Since you mentioned your SR25: For those looking for night vision capability paired with a precision rifle like an SR25 so they can shoot at distance, a dedicated night vision clip-on is the best option. Something like a PVS-30, PVS-24, or a CNVD-LR. But that's a totally different animal altogether, and far more expensive. Clip-on devices that go in front of day optics are built to handle recoil in high round counts on rifles. A PVS-14 isn't a clip-on device, in that it doesn't have the same recoil management and the lenses don't support that function. A clip-on such as what I just mentioned above fills that role and that role only. I hope that gives you some info to chew on if nothing else. Feel free to give us a call if a conversation helps clear up any other questions. |
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[#15]
Originally Posted By sidpost: The real problem is I have gone from a good Green tubed PVS-14 to a more premium white tube PVS-14. Getting back into the >$6K thermal range is way beyond where I started. I guess I need to investigate where Bering Optics is today along with Infiray, Pulsar, etc. in the $1500~$2500 range targeted for close work. View Quote Like Riley said, it really depends on what you want to do. Our training team always say "Define Your Requirements" lol. If you want to take shots using your PVS-14, what I'd do is get a quality 1x optic (if you don't have one) such as an EOTech EXPS which has the best light transmission for use with NV and an NV height mount such as the Unity Tactical FAST. Taller NV mounts are one reason PVS-14 weapon mounts have fallen out of favor because if you want to aim with your -14, wearing it on your head you can get behind the optic to shoot while still being able to scan & move with it head mounted. Another option is to use an IR laser, preferably a MFAL (multi function aiming laser - technically it's multi function aiming light), but an inexpensive IR laser pointer only like the TOR-MINI-IR will ($115) do the job for the average distance a 1x head mounted device can see/ID something. Feel free to give me a buzz as a 2-way conversation is almost always better than texting back and forth when it comes to stuff like this. |
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Deputy Director of Commercial Sales
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC. http://www.tnvc.com [email protected] (909) 796-7000 Ex. 610 |
[#16]
TNVC: You guys are simply awesome. And, yes I missed out on the older KAC PVS refurb units that ran ~$5K at the time. I ordered a Unity Tactical riser today just before doing a blood donation! In terms of my day optics, I run that ACOG on a KAC SR-15 LPR and I am amazed at how well this combination works. It simply rules shooting dogs harassing nursing cows and ambusing them at the waterhole during the day. After losing a calf to a neighbor's "pet", I'm on a personal JIHAD on dogs harassing and killing livestock and personally find domestic dogs to be the worst.
I plan on shooting the Unity Tactical riser some with my Aimpoint to get a feel for that combination before I commit to a NV or thermal option. |
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