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CA, USA
Posted: 6/26/2026 3:14:56 PM EDT
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Items used are a cut down molle ii frame, shoulder strap assembly, as well as the m81 rifleman rucksack aka main ruck. The main design principle is inspired by plce short back bergens, dutch klu 1993 daypack, USMC lce equipment. As the us refocuses on jungle warfare in preparation for potential operations in asia, such designs may gain traction again. Right now it appears the us army is testing quick adjust jungle rigs that can be dropped down to clear the ruck. The airborne tap also uses the quick adjust drop system. Another solution may be droppable buttpacks. Not sure how to post image but just image but imagine the molle ii system without the mss attached and with the frame cut down. Thank you for reading |
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Originally Posted By Ropium: Items used are a cut down molle ii frame, shoulder strap assembly, as well as the m81 rifleman rucksack aka main ruck. The main design principle is inspired by plce short back bergens, dutch klu 1993 daypack, USMC lce equipment. As the us refocuses on jungle warfare in preparation for potential operations in asia, such designs may gain traction again. Right now it appears the us army is testing quick adjust jungle rigs that can be dropped down to clear the ruck. The airborne tap also uses the quick adjust drop system. Another solution may be droppable buttpacks. Not sure how to post image but just image but imagine the molle ii system without the mss attached and with the frame cut down. Thank you for reading Or just use an ALICE pack / FILBE pack / ALICE compatible pack. (The short back british bergens and their NI patrol packs are good stuff btw) I agree with the SE asian / etc. warfare being a big driver in gear these days. That's why you are seeing belt kits getting popular the last year or two. Instead of dropping the LBE, which sucks long term, try something different. If you are using a set of modern LBE - the British style belt kits (Jayjays out of England and the Crossfire DZ Rig for examples) the sewn on rear pouches provide a stable shelf on a wide, padded belt. You wear the belt like you would wear a rucksack's belt, distributing the weight on your hips. Then you rest your short backed ruck (or ALICE pack, etc.) on TOP of the buttpack / water bottle pouches and don't use a waist belt / or at best, use a minimalist waist belt. This is FAR more comfortable than trying to drop down or sag you LBE. |
| BTW, you can host pics on https://imgbb.com/ for free with no account. Then past the picture's location (the address) on here - right above the text box are some icons. Find the one that looks kinda like a picture frame. |
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What is the volume requirement? It sounds to me like we should be re-engineering patrol packs to be shorter and not sustainment rucks. Sustainment rucks already have a belt system that should be set up to support a chest rig. Wasn't the Army and Marines looking at the light vehicles anyway? But I'm just a dude who rucks for fun and exercise, does prepared citizen stuff, and occasionally a competition. So never had to do or die with my kit. |
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While I TOTALLY agree with bringing back light vehicles - they won't work everywhere. You are still going to have troops patrolling alot on foot, especially in mountain, jungle, and other rough terrain. What those light vehicles WILL do though, is allow smaller units to be more self-sustainable. ie, moving supplies out to near where that platoon is operating, medivacing casualties if helicopters can't come in, etc. Basically what we used Jeeps for during WW2. |
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I've never had an issue with a military pack and military LBE w/buttpack. They are designed to work together. I was a LRS guy in the mid 90's. Our loads were stupid and were carried with a large ALICE ruck, an LBV, and a full belt with two canteens, 4 3x30 mag pouchs, knife, and USGI buttpack. Finding a pack and LBE that fit "better" together is definitely a thing and a worthy goal. |
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Originally Posted By wsix: Finding a pack and LBE that fit "better" together is definitely a thing and a worthy goal. That's why you see guys who are really really into belt kits tend to recommend certain packs (though it does have alot of personal preference) - Crossfire packs for instance. Most of the ALICE packs. The British NI Patrol Packs. etc. These are packs that tend to work really well together with a set of belt kit, if worn properly. Like I said, there is some personal preference - both for bag layouts, but also it seems, alot of it is the frame height. That's always been one of the bugs with the ALICE packs - one size fits all - and is one of the things the Crossfire packs addresses pretty well for most people. I've got a half dozen of those variable height ALICE pack frames coming from Australia too, those should be interesting to mess around with. I'm mostly interested in the shorter frames, to do a true ALICE patrol pack, but the taller frames should be interesting too, especially for dudes who are taller than normal. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: That's why you see guys who are really really into belt kits tend to recommend certain packs (though it does have alot of personal preference) - Crossfire packs for instance. Most of the ALICE packs. The British NI Patrol Packs. etc. These are packs that tend to work really well together with a set of belt kit, if worn properly. Like I said, there is some personal preference - both for bag layouts, but also it seems, alot of it is the frame height. That's always been one of the bugs with the ALICE packs - one size fits all - and is one of the things the Crossfire packs addresses pretty well for most people. I've got a half dozen of those variable height ALICE pack frames coming from Australia too, those should be interesting to mess around with. I'm mostly interested in the shorter frames, to do a true ALICE patrol pack, but the taller frames should be interesting too, especially for dudes who are taller than normal. Those will be interesting to see. Do you have a link to them? |
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Originally Posted By wsix: Those will be interesting to see. Do you have a link to them? My site isn't up yet, (I've got the hosting and domain and working on building the site now) but here is the company's site. I got the US distribution for the frames, and the first batch is waiting to be shipped. They have 6 sizes. They are ALICE pack frames, but differ in height. They are welded aluminum. The prices on there are in Australian dollars. I'm not completely sure what the price is going to be here, with shipping and tariffs and all that, but it should be competitive. I'm AIMING to try to keep them under $200. I'm going to be keeping one or two of them for shop use, using one as a demo frame to send around to influencers here in the states, and selling the rest. If you want one, let me know what size you want and I'll make sure they send one in that size. I'm not putting them up for sale until they actually get here, but at least one in the size you want will show up. When I talked to him today, there was only one of the XL left, and 2-3 of the regular sized ones left in the batch. Personally, I'm more interested in the ones that are a size down from the regular ALICE frames. I want to make an ALICE framed version of the NI Patrol Pack (in addition to an internal frame version) I think that will work really well with a set of belt kit. https://www.westerndynamics.com.au/ Their Sizing Chart |
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Originally Posted By wsix: I guess I caught a glimpse of that months ago. Looks like a tank. I don't see how it adjusts though? It doesn't adjust. It comes in 6 different heights. ie, instead of just one size ALICE frame, you can pick from 6 sizes. The US army originally planned to have 3 different height ALICE frames, because of different people's heights. For cost cutting reasons, they chose to use just one. One size fits all. This is that same idea. But with even more options. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: It doesn't adjust. It comes in 6 different heights. . Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Originally Posted By wsix: I guess I caught a glimpse of that months ago. Looks like a tank. I don't see how it adjusts though? It doesn't adjust. It comes in 6 different heights. . So, we need to design an adjustable one? Well, someone, not me. |
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Originally Posted By wsix: So, we need to design an adjustable one? Well, someone, not me. That starts to get complicated. Which means expensive. Think probably another $100 or more. If you really want to get an adjustable external frame pack, look around for an old Dana Designs / K2 TerraFrame pack. Dana Designs is the original company that the guy who started Mystery Ranch had. He sold it (thus running under the name K2) and made the packs for them for awhile, until he moved on to start Mystery Ranch. (alot of the original mystery ranch packs were updated versions of his old packs - for instance, they had a Mystery Ranch TerraFrame pack, that was an internal frame, but had the same basic pack bag, etc. The TerraFrame was one of the last of the external frame packs before everyone switched over to making internal frame packs, and is considered to be possibly the epitome of the external frame pack. It has an adjustable external frame, letting you adjust it out tall to have true load lifters. However, it is not ALICE compatible. The pack bag fits on a different way and the belt is completely different. I've got one. Well, I lent it to my cousin with some other gear until he can replace his stolen backpacking gear. But yea. They're still popular with big game hunters, who have to haul out a ton of meat on their back. They're a little heavy compared to modern packs, but are extremely well made. One would make a pretty good 'end of the world' pack. I haven't worn it in awhile, so I can't compare it directly to the Crossfire packs, but it has to ride pretty close to one. It wasn't quite as comfortable as my other Mystery Ranch packs, but it also is a 6500 cu inch external frame monster. If you shop around, you can find one for $200 or less in really good condition. Here's one that looks close to mint for $250. https://www.ebay.com/itm/366438953768 |
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Originally Posted By wsix: I think it would be as easy as map the hip belt part slide up and down the frame so you can adjust it and pin it, either with preexisted holes in the frame and the slider hip belt part, or you drill it and pin it. That's what the Dana Designs pack does. The top part of the frame slides into the bottom of the frame, and there are multiple holes in the outer tube. And a locking pin that goes through those and the holes in the inner frame. The extra work would add ALOT of labor to the process however. Additionally, the ALICE pack frame has the pack's main weight rest ON TOP of the frame. That would make all that weight rest on the locking pins and those holes. I don't know how durable that would be. Of course, you could attach the pack in other ways to the frame (like the Dana Designs frame does) but that would then make it not an ALICE compatible frame. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: You can bump it up to the DG3 / CF3 packs. They have the same frame and suspension as the DG2. Just slightly larger bag. Though you do have to be careful not to overpack it once you get to that size. Weight, not so much bulk. I like the bigger pack size for winter use - fitting winter sleeping bags and winter clothing in there. Bulky bulky. But yes. Anything much bigger than that and you really need to re-think your gear arrangement. Yeah, the CF2 is about as big as I want to go with a belt rig. It's a great 3-4 day patrol pack for my AO and just about perfect for three season use. I now have the articulated lid that doubles as a small assault pack which makes it more versatile if you're establishing a patrol base for a few days. My needs are waning for a bigger pack, but if needed, I would switch to a chest rig and probably a micro chest rig. ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: My site isn't up yet, (I've got the hosting and domain and working on building the site now) but here is the company's site. I got the US distribution for the frames, and the first batch is waiting to be shipped. They have 6 sizes. They are ALICE pack frames, but differ in height. They are welded aluminum. The prices on there are in Australian dollars. I'm not completely sure what the price is going to be here, with shipping and tariffs and all that, but it should be competitive. I'm AIMING to try to keep them under $200. I'm going to be keeping one or two of them for shop use, using one as a demo frame to send around to influencers here in the states, and selling the rest. If you want one, let me know what size you want and I'll make sure they send one in that size. I'm not putting them up for sale until they actually get here, but at least one in the size you want will show up. When I talked to him today, there was only one of the XL left, and 2-3 of the regular sized ones left in the batch. Personally, I'm more interested in the ones that are a size down from the regular ALICE frames. I want to make an ALICE framed version of the NI Patrol Pack (in addition to an internal frame version) I think that will work really well with a set of belt kit. https://www.westerndynamics.com.au/ Their Sizing Chart Oh, so you did get distribution rights on those? Nice! Last I heard someone else may have snaked you. |
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Originally Posted By wsix: I think it would be as easy as map the hip belt part slide up and down the frame so you can adjust it and pin it, either with preexisted holes in the frame and the slider hip belt part, or you drill it and pin it. The issue I see in my minds eye with that is that the height of the frame remains the same, while adjusting for fit, which means the frame would still not rest on LBE correctly for anyone wanting it shorter than it's max. |
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Originally Posted By ROCK6: Yeah, the CF2 is about as big as I want to go with a belt rig. It's a great 3-4 day patrol pack for my AO and just about perfect for three season use. I now have the articulated lid that doubles as a small assault pack which makes it more versatile if you're establishing a patrol base for a few days. My needs are waning for a bigger pack, but if needed, I would switch to a chest rig and probably a micro chest rig. ROCK6 It was a tough call between the 2 and the 3 for me. Ultimately I went with the 3 because: 1. The frame is the same and the pack sizes mostly seem to extend up and out, not down, meaning it still rides well on LBE. 2. I wanted the incorporated pockets on the sides. 3. It seemed strappy enough that downloading it when I didn't need the extra room wouldn't be a problem. |
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Originally Posted By ROCK6: Yeah, the CF2 is about as big as I want to go with a belt rig. It's a great 3-4 day patrol pack for my AO and just about perfect for three season use. I now have the articulated lid that doubles as a small assault pack which makes it more versatile if you're establishing a patrol base for a few days. My needs are waning for a bigger pack, but if needed, I would switch to a chest rig and probably a micro chest rig. ROCK6 Yea, those daypack lids are a good addition. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Oh, so you did get distribution rights on those? Nice! Last I heard someone else may have snaked you. Yea. We're still working on shipping and stuff, but I've got a small batch coming. I need to hurry up and get my web guy to finish up my site so I can get it online. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: It was a tough call between the 2 and the 3 for me. Ultimately I went with the 3 because: 1. The frame is the same and the pack sizes mostly seem to extend up and out, not down, meaning it still rides well on LBE. 2. I wanted the incorporated pockets on the sides. 3. It seemed strappy enough that downloading it when I didn't need the extra room wouldn't be a problem. Yup. That's why I did the 3 too. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Go figure. That was an odd move, I thought. It's people asking for more sizes for specific uses. I asked him about doing a taller one for instance. I know alot of hunters want a taller frame so that they would have the equivalent of true load lifters. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: It's people asking for more sizes for specific uses. I asked him about doing a taller one for instance. I know alot of hunters want a taller frame so that they would have the equivalent of true load lifters. Just seems an odd decision if they were previously struggling with delivery. |
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Originally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Just seems an odd decision if they were previously struggling with delivery. Yea, he's cutting production back of the oddball sizes and most of the production will be of the most popular couple frames. He's also upping production numbers. |
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Originally Posted By marnsdorff: Yea, he's cutting production back of the oddball sizes and most of the production will be of the most popular couple frames. He's also upping production numbers. I hope for them much success, domestic and abroad. Looking forward to getting my hand on a medium. |
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