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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 6:47:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSOC]
Delineating my waterfowl presently
Have most of the parts, Planning a B&T SD Can, Receiver is a Zenith "Blem" have found no issues with it aside from being handled after blasting and not cleaned or preserved. Most of the critical parts are HKP or RCM Currently getting a barrel press mandrel ground. So once that is completed I'll install the barrel, documenting all the steps with video and Stills. 
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Posted: 7/30/2024 7:23:13 PM EDT
[#1]
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2024 9:05:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Dog: https://i.imgur.com/ywNTjit.jpeg So why did it not show up in my post? |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 10:50:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AFSOC: So why did it not show up in my post? Because you posted the link without using the "IMG /IMG" tags... but you figured that out as evidenced by your edit. I was just trying to help out. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2024 7:00:40 AM EDT
[#4]
I appreciate it, but it did have image tags. the link was different. an extra I that was not in the upload link??? Weird.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2024 7:27:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Barrel Press Mandrel returned from Heat Treat today!
Precision ground I gave it a 3" Pilot, .875 body Diameter, .346 Pilot diameter 16u overall finish it is a LOT better than 16, the pilot is 4u, Chamfer on the press contact end, Brass sacrificial wafer. Looking forward to this    Also updated parts pic, I will post a parts list of what all I used. 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 12:11:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: number40Fan]
[#6]
The barrel presses in from the back/rear?
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2024 9:34:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Can. Quite easily
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2024 7:17:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSOC]
[#8]
Granted this does not take into account the skillset required to TIG weld, or the knowledge to fit the barrel, finishing (park and Norrell's Moly Resin on this one) also the few select specialty tools needed to complete such a build, a press is required, a TIG welder, fixture for pressing barrel and ability to drill and pin the trunnion, Conversion from an existing Clone requires the cocking tube to be changed which will need to be carefully cut of prior to removing the barrel. for me it is just easier to build it from scratch. even if you bought a flat and the fixtures to bend THAT you will still be into it as much as the receiver I bought here.
This is not the ONLY way but is the way I chose. The GRAND total with the first of 3 cans I have chosen is $2918 again not including tax and shipping of various parts, some had a bit of a wait due to availability so I sourced what I could when I could for this build. also rounded prices to the nearest dollar. If you don't have a park setup or a blast cabinet or know someone who does that could also be an issue for you. Ability to set solid and semi tubular rivets is another factor there is no "MP5" specific press kit out right now Robert Johnson RTG machinegun parts had one that he offered but has since stopped for supposed legal reasons. Similarly there is no 93 specific press kit available the base plate for the only 91 series I know of is usable but that kit is $630. When pressing a virgin trunnion there is no need for the press plate though could be nice to have.  |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2024 8:14:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Nice
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USA
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Posted: 8/22/2024 9:08:19 AM EDT
[#10]
looks great so far. I'll keep checking back as the progress interests me. thanks for sharing!
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CO, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 11:47:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: number40Fan]
[#11]
Curious as to why you chose that barrel?
 Over this one for $20 more. 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 2:27:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By number40Fan: Curious as to why you chose that barrel? https://i.ibb.co/nbT3Xxy/Barrel1.jpg Over this one for $20 more. https://i.ibb.co/QQ7051P/Barrel2.jpg Curious why it matters? I purchased what I was able to get when I was able to get it. Was MONTHS getting the barrel shroud in stock then the Cocking tube was not then the Bearer, I would have gotten the titanium version of it if it had been in stock when I was buying one. This barrel was in stock, what problem do you have with it? Genuinely curious why you have a problem with it? it is ported, the ports are spaced out differently (i.e. not a huge cluster in one spot. Theoretically that port pattern would be stronger. Why didn't I get the B&T? Why didn't I get the E bolt, why didn't I get blah blah blah. The List goes on and on. it is a Nitrided 416 SS barrel, nothing fundamentally "Wrong" with it from a durability or other standpoint, the ports as long as there are the same number or MORE should be fine. It is a standard SD Thread. If nothing else I will be able to say whether or not it really matters.... I do have a full Hk Mp5 SD to put it side by side with in fact the TEST can is an actual Hk SD can. My buddy's "Spare" SD can. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2024 3:32:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Not sure where you thought I had a problem, just wondering why you went with the one you did.
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Posted: 8/23/2024 5:17:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Probably worth noting that the one with the ports all together is the pattern that HK uses - and if the barrel you went with doesn't yield the performance you're after, that's not a super-easy part to swap out like it would be on an AR15. Might be worth some research on the practical differences between them before you go forward rather than berate the guy for asking a genuine curiosity question.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 9:16:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Modeled a press plate for the Mp5 or 90 series trunnion...
Printed a copy from ASA. Fits trunnion pretty well .750 Thick the Ring is .250 high. Going to see if I can CNC Mill a Steel or Aluminum version. But the plastic may hold up for single use.   
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2024 9:22:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By number40Fan: Not sure where you thought I had a problem, just wondering why you went with the one you did. By asking the question and posting a photo of a different product says you had a problem with it. Simply. This format does not allow for sarcasm... or anything else. so then "Why" did you ask? because it doesn't meet your standards and you posted something that does meet your standards and basically said "You should have bought this instead" similarly your white knight below did the same thing and thinks he is smarter or better. Insultingly thinks I do not know what I am doing because he basically says "rebarralling is not like an AR" no kidding? never pressed a barrel in an AR, though I have built many hundreds of far more difficult platforms. I'm making some of the tools for this, my designs and abilities. No one knows what anyone else knows, I didn't post my resume' I didn't say that my choice of barrel for this build is the best. At NO POINT did I say that but I have two people insinuating that it is not the best because they don't think so. Now that said. I will probably just stop bothering you all with this build, it is apparently not appreciated that anyone go to the trouble of providing info. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 9:57:39 PM EDT
[#17]
 Wow - you need to relax and step back a bit. No one here is insulting you nor criticizing you, your build or the choices you have made for parts. They are simply technical questions in a tech forum. You started the thread and shared what you were doing for a build... @number40Fan asked a legitimate, benign question that wasn't attacking you, wasn't criticizing you, wasn't making fun of you or your chosen parts, nor was it sarcasm. Looks to me like a legitimate question he asked. I own an MP5SD and have never seen the barrel you used and legitimately would have the exact same question he asked. I'm sure the pictures posted were to make the question clear. I've never seen an MP5SD barrel like the one you bought and am also curious the practical difference between the two. |
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Posted: 8/27/2024 10:02:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AFSOC: By asking the question and posting a photo of a different product says you had a problem with it. Simply. This format does not allow for sarcasm... or anything else. so then "Why" did you ask? because it doesn't meet your standards and you posted something that does meet your standards and basically said "You should have bought this instead" similarly your white knight below did the same thing and thinks he is smarter or better. Insultingly thinks I do not know what I am doing because he basically says "rebarralling is not like an AR" no kidding? never pressed a barrel in an AR, though I have built many hundreds of far more difficult platforms. I'm making some of the tools for this, my designs and abilities. No one knows what anyone else knows, I didn't post my resume' I didn't say that my choice of barrel for this build is the best. At NO POINT did I say that but I have two people insinuating that it is not the best because they don't think so. Now that said. I will probably just stop bothering you all with this build, it is apparently not appreciated that anyone go to the trouble of providing info. Sounds like the forum isn’t for you. People are interested in builds and a valid question is why you may opt for one part over another. Instead of just answering the question you assume malicious intent. |
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Posted: 8/28/2024 3:09:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryFrom one spreadsheet nerd to another - that's awesome. i have one that is similar for AK kits. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 5:40:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Interesting tool builds, not really needed but still cool. On your barrel, make sure it threads into the can you plan to use before you get too far in. I have a very nice SD build and a TPM can that won’t fit it.. Someday I’ll fix it because I bought a new B&T barrel but currently just considering building another one instead of fixing the first one.
 Issues with TPM Outfitters SD suppressor on HK Parts MP5 SD kit. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 7:09:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kells81: Interesting tool builds, not really needed but still cool. On your barrel, make sure it threads into the can you plan to use before you get too far in. I have a very nice SD build and a TPM can that won’t fit it.. Someday I’ll fix it because I bought a new B&T barrel but currently just considering building another one instead of fixing the first one.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH-OD1F4CwkI am pretty sure his barrels that he modifies are the only ones in the odd thread. a typical SD barrel has 18-1 RH threads. and his cans are only compatible with his barrels but he can make sell you a back cap that will fit. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2024 10:45:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jfk]
[#22]
I just looked at your video. The part you are referring to is the barrel (muzzle) support piece that fits a few inches inside the tube? The factory HK as well as B&T has a slight step at the muzzle while RCM is smooth (even). It sounds like the part in the original can has a smaller diameter while the part they sent you has the correct diameter for your US/RCM barrel but the OD is slightly bigger to slip inside the tube?
If that is correct, you have two options, take the original part and and have it bored out to fit your barrel or take the replacement part to a machine shop and have it turned down slightly to fit into your tube. Either operation is minor and would take a few minutes, if you don't have access to a lathe/machinery. If I were making SD's, I would build them to HK/B&T or RCM as an option 1 or 2 or go option #3. Option #3 is to make the barrel support spec'd to both barrels. The support would be machined on both ends and the user would have to flip it around to fit their barrel. You could ask a machine shop to make the support piece and your can would accept either barrel. REFERRING TO KELLS81 |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:28:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AFSOC: I am pretty sure his barrels that he modifies are the only ones in the odd thread. a typical SD barrel has 18-1 RH threads. and his cans are only compatible with his barrels but he can make sell you a back cap that will fit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AFSOC: Originally Posted By kells81: Interesting tool builds, not really needed but still cool. On your barrel, make sure it threads into the can you plan to use before you get too far in. I have a very nice SD build and a TPM can that won’t fit it.. Someday I’ll fix it because I bought a new B&T barrel but currently just considering building another one instead of fixing the first one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH-OD1F4CwkI am pretty sure his barrels that he modifies are the only ones in the odd thread. a typical SD barrel has 18-1 RH threads. and his cans are only compatible with his barrels but he can make sell you a back cap that will fit. LOL the threads aren't the issue.. Hell the threads are the least of the issue. |
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Posted: 8/29/2024 8:30:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jfk: I just looked at your video. The part you are referring to is the barrel (muzzle) support piece that fits a few inches inside the tube? The factory HK as well as B&T has a slight step at the muzzle while RCM is smooth (even). It sounds like the part in the original can has a smaller diameter while the part they sent you has the correct diameter for your US/RCM barrel but the OD is slightly bigger to slip inside the tube? If that is correct, you have two options, take the original part and and have it bored out to fit your barrel or take the replacement part to a machine shop and have it turned down slightly to fit into your tube. Either operation is minor and would take a few minutes, if you don't have access to a lathe/machinery. If I were making SD's, I would build them to HK/B&T or RCM as an option 1 or 2 or go option #3. Option #3 is to make the barrel support spec'd to both barrels. The support would be machined on both ends and the user would have to flip it around to fit their barrel. You could ask a machine shop to make the support piece and your can would accept either barrel. REFERRING TO KELLS81 I have thought about reaming the one that actually fits inside the can but honestly I will probably just build another one but use the B&T barrel I have. Its not a lot of work to replace the barrel but its an ambition issue on my end and I would rather weld up a V2.0 as every time I build a second anything its 2-3x better than the first one. |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 4:08:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSOC]
[#25]
Pressing Barrel .016" bolt gap
the base plate is a necessity and I will make an Aluminum or Steel version in the future. My press plate SMALL hole is about the diameter of the Trunnion but my plates are 2" thick as well.. and not cast crap like comes with the HF presses. The Press Arbor that I Designed and had made works great keeping the alignment. People have said "The tools are alright but you don't need those" nope dont need them... but I have the ability to make then and possibly make them available to others, but in true fashion of the internet "Gunsmiths" why do it right when you can do it halfassed...     |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 8:49:24 AM EDT
[#26]
lol why bother posting if your going to roll a chip on your shoulder? The internet smiths giving tips on possible traps are what makes these threads great. Do you need the tools you have there? No. Is a different set of tools going to make the build better/worse- no. It would be a real shame if someone ran into an issue on their build, sees that you’re making the same mistake and tried to give you a heads up.
Thank god you didn’t start the HK21 thread just to go defensive on everyone that post tips/trucks/suggestions.
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Posted: 9/2/2024 8:44:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kells81: lol why bother posting if your going to roll a chip on your shoulder? The internet smiths giving tips on possible traps are what makes these threads great. Do you need the tools you have there? No. Is a different set of tools going to make the build better/worse- no. It would be a real shame if someone ran into an issue on their build, sees that you’re making the same mistake and tried to give you a heads up. Thank god you didn’t start the HK21 thread just to go defensive on everyone that post tips/trucks/suggestions. Where did I ask for any advice? Oh thats right I didn't. Go ahead and say the tools I made are junk... not nice to have and will cause problems... go ahead... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2024 10:44:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kells81]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AFSOC: Where did I ask for any advice? Oh thats right I didn't. Go ahead and say the tools I made are junk... not nice to have and will cause problems... go ahead... Didn’t have to, we could see your mistake from the curb. Also- as far as the tools, no one said they were junk. |
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Posted: 9/9/2024 7:08:23 AM EDT
[#29]
Spot Blasted and Riveted today, Case Deflector and Sling Clip
Stuck the case deflector in place with Super glue, then stuck the rivets in place with Super glue then clinched the rivets with the long reach rivet squeezer, this is not necessary on a FLAT but on an rolled and welded receiver that does not have the case deflector installed this is potentially the way. Hollow end of rivet should be upset to a 90 degree angle like the countersink in the part, I used a modified squeezer and a custom modified die that is made from a quarter inch transfer punch turned down to 3/16 with a ledge and set in the tool. Top side is just a small domed rivet die. ----     Used the standard squeezer on the Clip Rivets.   
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Posted: 9/9/2024 7:00:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Looking good.
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Posted: 9/14/2024 3:58:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Work always intruding on my free time.
Made a Shroud alignment tool, not "Weld Proof but doesn't need to be. Just needs to hold it concentric.    Drilled all the holes to weld the trunnion in and also the shroud, I'm using plug welds instead of fillets for that. should look a lot cleaner. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2024 7:47:19 PM EDT
[#32]
This is awesome. Watching closely.
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Posted: 9/15/2024 8:17:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Ok, I’ll give props on that alignment jig. I went about it differently and never even considered printing one. Also curious how the plug vs fillet will turn out.
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Posted: 9/18/2024 8:25:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSOC]
[#34]
"Mostly" welded. the rosettes worked great. A horribly unfamiliar welder not "MINE" Huge TIG torch, no water cooler BAH! my shop stuff is all in storage sadly. the area I had to work in was cramped and difficult to set stuff up in.
But the front end is welded the Trunnion, the shroud except the welds toward the center pin. I'll test fire it and if it runs I will complete the welding. get it all blasted and parked and painted. Also the Mag BUTTON split in half when I tapped the roll pin in place fit fine in the mag latch but the button just split. that was a Zenith Part, a complete assembly I contacted them today and they replied immediately confirmed my address and are currently shipping one out, probably next week at some point also Hkp providing some trouble shooting parts for my other Zenith's and an Hk Mag Button. the Sling Rings arrived and got one of those welded in. I Decided I didn't want Ambi... so far Fun Checks on the MKE trigger pack in the Zenith Lower are all good. still sitting at .016 on bolt gap. as installed. Anyway here it is so far couple of the welds need touched up a couple need added.  Drill and Reamer for barrel pin (5mm not Oversize) is Number 10 .1935 for the drill (use a mill or drill press) and a Number 9 .1960 Straight Flute Chucking reamer, provides a nice press fit. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2024 2:26:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Great alignment jig for the shroud. Can’t get more parallel to the barrel than that!
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Posted: 10/2/2024 10:14:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Received the mag catch button from Zenith and one from Hkp both are nice parts the Zenith part this time is a machined steel part instead of the cast part from before.
Went on with no issues. Took it out with the other kids on sunday no suppressor available and no non suppressor suppressor but dropping the hammer DID fire a round which impacted the berm, POA/POI from 50y it short cycled the action to be expected with no suppressor, also hand cycled about 15 rounds through it not firing just feeding from a magazine. a German tube with KCI internals. no problems |
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Posted: 10/13/2024 5:43:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSOC]
[#37]
So Update on Function.
My Buddy SUBMG (he is on here at times) a Missouri HTF member of some repute Brought out his MP5SDN factory post sample gun. I used the suppressor from it and well here is the Good News/bad news part.... With his factory Hk mag and whatever ammo was in it.... "Probably" Fiocci 115 9mm it would not cycle properly. With my Hybrid Hk tube with KCI guts it ran with my 124Gr Federal like it should. Also with WWB 115 functioned flawlessly with AC Unity mags ATI Hk Hk Tube with KCI guts and ETS Polymer. the magazine fits pretty tightly and no wobble in my SD Clone. I massaged it that way. Also adding that it worked properly with my oddly ported barrel no problems at all it is a 416 SS barrel with flutes and ports... I am not worried about material or construction method. I know every one wants to cry COLD HAMMER FORGED IS THE ONLY WAY!!!! but it is BS. whatever works works. if I were to build it again I may well go with an RCM CHF barrel. Again not worried but I might choose a different one. Or perhaps not. So the bad news... now I have to spend additional money on a suppressor, two NFA taxes. and more finishing materials.  
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Posted: 10/18/2024 1:36:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSOC]
[#38]
SBR paperwork has been submitted. Corp.
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Posted: 10/23/2024 5:15:15 PM EDT
[#39]
SBR Paperwork approved Corporate.
Now just park and paint and final assembly. |
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Posted: 10/24/2024 10:36:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kells81: Ok, I’ll give props on that alignment jig. I went about it differently and never even considered printing one. Also curious how the plug vs fillet will turn out. Plug welding is the same as what is used on the Trunnion welds from receiver to the trunnion. aside obviously the cheek welds that really just serve to close the receiver cuts. the Shroud that I sourced from HKP, of unknown origin is about 14 ga so quite thick I drilled the holes in the receiver and the shroud at the same time so it was aligned on the spots for the receiver. welded the receiver first then dressed those spots down a small amount so the shroud went on rather like there was a detent. snapped in place. then I just welded the shroud to the existing welds. Easy peasy. there was a cooling cycle between. at any rate it is solid as a bridge support. Similar issues I find with the welding and my left arm problems, I have trouble feeding tig wire with it. So I have issues with filler metal and accuracy or my left arm being a pain in the ass. but mostly it all went fine. I chose not to revisit some welds and just dressed them down, after conversing with someone from Nighthawk over the weekend I may pursue Laser Welding in the future. for this sort of project. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2024 2:29:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By number40Fan: Curious as to why you chose that barrel? https://i.ibb.co/nbT3Xxy/Barrel1.jpg Over this one for $20 more. https://i.ibb.co/QQ7051P/Barrel2.jpg Interesting. Never saw that BBL before. Dont think it will bleed velocity of 115 to subsonic, but that is a good thing as most would load their own subsonic to begin with. |
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Posted: 10/24/2024 5:21:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RenegadeX: Interesting. Never saw that BBL before. Dont think it will bleed velocity of 115 to subsonic, but that is a good thing as most would load their own subsonic to begin with. You would be incorrect. Already tested and proven that it does exactly THAT. Perfectly functional. And loading Subs for an SD is not a good idea. |
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Posted: 10/29/2024 7:55:47 PM EDT
[#43]
The Suppressor has "Shipped" though it has not made it into the carriers hands yet.
but the form 3 is apparently accomplished and the thing should reach my dealer's hands soon. then the Form 4 waiting begins. |
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Posted: Yesterday 11:15:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RenegadeX: Dont think it will bleed velocity of 115 to subsonic, but that is a good thing as most would load their own subsonic to begin with. Things that you're specifically not supposed to do with SDs. |
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