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Posted: 11/30/2024 2:05:39 AM EDT
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For the past couple years, I've (every now and then) been drafting new parts for my MSAR STG using Fusion 360, and then machine them out at work in my free time. So far I've completed very small stuff I can get done in the limited amount of time. First was a QD sling swivel I made from leftover grade 5 titanium bar stock. Second was a new charging handle I had 3D printed with our SLS machine. And as of a couple days ago, finished drafting a STEP file of the E4 mag catch (linked below). Oh, and some other much larger, more serious, components as of this past year, but I think you all get the picture. Now, with the success I've had making these parts, I was curious if anyone else would be even interested in these files I drafted for these spare things, and if there's a need for other parts of the rifle. I know the mag catch on the E4s were prone to breakage, but I have yet to machine it and test it for full guarantee of functionality. But besides that mag catch, was there any other parts in need of replacement? Anything else from the rifles that were prone to breakage? I don't have any means of manufacturing and distributing these parts myself, but I certainly wouldn't mind if anyone (looking at Manticore and Ratworx) used the files I uploaded to achieve that task. https://grabcad.com/library/msar-e4-mag-catch-1 |
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Yes! That's actually another thing I made too, but that didn't require any sort of special machining or anything, so I kinda forgot to mention it lol  Literally only needed a 4mm steel pipe, dremeled 3 notches into it, a single slit on the other to jam a flat head screwdriver into, and bam, you got a new driver bit for that irritating proprietary mag release screw. I'd like to make a guide on how to do it on here, but this site won't let me upload pics from my computer, only online links, so I'll need to figure out a different method that won't be a PITA. |
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Funny, after OP started this thread, I made a last minute change to my range trip and took my MSAR instead of an AR pistol. It made me think of what spares are available to keep an MSAR in the fight. There are major parts available, such as bolts, bolt cages, and the cocking piece are all available from Ratworx. Additionally, many parts, such as firing pins, pistons, gas regulators and springs are interchangeable with the AUG. I THINK the trigger packs are swappable, but not 100% certain. There are more knowledgeable than I who can chime in about that. That leaves small parts, like the OPs mag catch, some flat springs (such as on the safety and takedown levers). Maybe AUG parts would work, or be modified to work. What other small parts? |
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That was my thought too a couple years ago. Exactly what parts are even needed to keep an MSAR running for the long term, that aren't obtainable anywhere else? There were the piston, gas regulator, and firing pin you mentioned, but again, those are readily obtainable from Steyr, or from the surplus AUG kits that swamped the market recently. Don't forget too that (assuming you have a gen 4/E4) you can swap stocks with the Steyrs, though I'm not sure why anyone would ditch their E4 stock for anything else, since it's arguably the best stock for the platform, even today. Ratworx still seems to be making their usual spares, including the left hand bolt and buffer kit Oh, and I've confirmed that the Steyr mag catches work with the MSAR waffle stock, my preban currently has a Manticore augmented lever, and previously had the one I took out from the surplus stock years ago. Both worked no problem, so that's another component to the compatibility list. Everything else not mentioned is really not stuff that breaks at all. How many people have you heard breaking FCGs? Bolt carriers? Barrels? Hell even the stocks never had record of them breaking (unlike the recent Steyrs  ), and I've seen people put their MSARs through rough conditions, me included. But still though, it's nice having spare parts :) and besides the mag catch for the E4, I couldn't recall anything else that would need an active supply of spare parts being made. I'd like to hear from any users today that had issues with their rifles that need a part or more replaced, that way someone can at least know where to step in to help. |
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I’m pretty well stocked with MSAR E4 spares. I have a pair of Ratworx RH enhanced bolts, a LH bolt (not that I shoot lefty, but I have it), a few bolt cages, pistons, a spare STG stock, MSAR mags, and some other small parts. My AUG is primarily what I shoot and run hard, the MSAR is more of a range toy/science project. I DO want to keep it running, though. Any parts that won’t interchange with the AUG, I’m interested in having. I’ll have to check if the MSAR receiver will fit the AUG stock. I know the AUG receiver fits into the E4 stock, but haven’t tried it the other way around. I’m told there are some minor differences between AUg/MSAR takedown levers in the stocks that may be problematic. Barrels will NOT swap with the AUG. The locking lugs are different. |
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Sorry, forgot to update this. The MSAR received physically fits in an AUG stock, but I think the takedown levers are different sizes. I could not get the AUG lever to slide into the MSAR receiver. Will investigate this further when I can find my set of calipers. |
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Originally Posted By Cumtardacus: That was my thought too a couple years ago. Exactly what parts are even needed to keep an MSAR running for the long term, that aren't obtainable anywhere else? There were the piston, gas regulator, and firing pin you mentioned, but again, those are readily obtainable from Steyr, or from the surplus AUG kits that swamped the market recently. Don't forget too that (assuming you have a gen 4/E4) you can swap stocks with the Steyrs, though I'm not sure why anyone would ditch their E4 stock for anything else, since it's arguably the best stock for the platform, even today. Ratworx still seems to be making their usual spares, including the left hand bolt and buffer kit Oh, and I've confirmed that the Steyr mag catches work with the MSAR waffle stock, my preban currently has a Manticore augmented lever, and previously had the one I took out from the surplus stock years ago. Both worked no problem, so that's another component to the compatibility list. Everything else not mentioned is really not stuff that breaks at all. How many people have you heard breaking FCGs? Bolt carriers? Barrels? Hell even the stocks never had record of them breaking (unlike the recent Steyrs ), and I've seen people put their MSARs through rough conditions, me included. But still though, it's nice having spare parts :) and besides the mag catch for the E4, I couldn't recall anything else that would need an active supply of spare parts being made. I'd like to hear from any users today that had issues with their rifles that need a part or more replaced, that way someone can at least know where to step in to help. I wish someone would make a good Brass Deflector for the E4 stock other than the one Manticore Arms makes that clips over the top of the stock. I have two E4's that have been running 100% for years and have used the Manticore Deflector on both but sometimes ejected brass bounce back and get deflected Back Into the ejection port. The aluminum deflectors made for the AUG's will not work on the MSAR. Forgot to mention I am left handed and both of my MSAR's are set up with Left Hand Bolts. |
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You’ll have to find someone with a 3D printer, but I have used this one for a NATO and E4 stock. For left hand, it will need to be mirrored. I had to slightly modify the tabs that hold it into the ejection port to fit the MSAR stock. When I can get to my safe, I’ll show you how it fits the MSAR. https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/jannycad-steyr-aug-brass-case-deflector Here’s the right hand version. Attached File Attached File Edited to add: Here shows how I had to modify the tabs on the brass deflector to fit the MSAR stock. I did it with a file/dremel cut off wheel. The one on the right was modified for MSAR E4. The left is unmolested. Attached File Attached File |
  I will add this to the thread, a drawing for the specialty tool I did a while back, in mm. To make it I used 1/4in hex stock, turned the end down for clearance, bought a cheap pack of 1.2mm drills off amazon. Drilled the three holes with the drills, peened the holes a little, filled them with locktite and pressed in three of the drill bits then used a cut off to cut them to length. Worked well enough. Edit - Added a picture of the tool |
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Originally Posted By PiGood: https://i.imgur.com/jSb3mf1.jpeg I will add this to the thread, a drawing for the specialty tool I did a while back, in mm. To make it I used 1/4in hex stock, turned the end down for clearance, bought a cheap pack of 1.2mm drills off amazon. Drilled the three holes with the drills, peened the holes a little, filled them with locktite and pressed in three of the drill bits then used a cut off to cut them to length. Worked well enough. That’s cool! I had some free time over the holidays, and I searched all over hell for that tool. Even contacted Apex tool with pics/specs to see if they had anything that would work on that fastener. The rep told me he had never seen one like it before. Somebody HAS to make it, unless MSAR made their own custom tool and bolts for it! |
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Originally Posted By jkirkon: Even contacted Apex tool with pics/specs to see if they had anything that would work on that fastener. The rep told me he had never seen one like it before. Somebody HAS to make it, unless MSAR made their own custom tool and bolts for it! I memory severs they were custom made by one of the companies that makes tri wing bits/fasteners. Some of MSARs knives use the same screw head so they were available in some knife repair kits, it is just getting the right size, and even then they were like $50+ for the kits... Thus I made mine. I kind of theorized that you could 3d print the hex section, 100% infill PLA, and then heat set/press in the drill bits. Thought being as long as the bits went all the way thru the hex section the drill bit bodies should take most of the load off the layers, and distribute the torque enough it will not fail on the first attempt. Not saying it would hold up super long term, but probably would be good enough to take it apart and put it back together a few times. |
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Originally Posted By jkirkon: That's cool! I had some free time over the holidays, and I searched all over hell for that tool. Even contacted Apex tool with pics/specs to see if they had anything that would work on that fastener. The rep told me he had never seen one like it before. Somebody HAS to make it, unless MSAR made their own custom tool and bolts for it! It's definitely an oddball. I imagine it had compatibility with some of their knife bolts. These guys seem to stock different tri-wing bits for microtech knives. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them fit. (ETA: they have a 4.9mm tri wing knife tool and my MSAR bolt head and tool head both measure 4.9mm diameter) https://www.pvk.com/Microtech-Tool-Bits-s/670.htm I got mine from an MSAR rep when the E4's first came out and I got a mag stuck. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By VTD: @jkirkon It's definitely an oddball. I imagine it had compatibility with some of their knife bolts. These guys seem to stock different tri-wing bits for microtech knives. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them fit. (ETA: they have a 4.9mm tri wing knife tool and my MSAR bolt head and tool head both measure 4.9mm diameter) https://www.pvk.com/Microtech-Tool-Bits-s/670.htm I got mine from an MSAR rep when the E4's first came out and I got a mag stuck. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26478/IMG_0085_jpg-3426282.JPG That’s AWESOME!!!!! Thank you! Just ordered the 4.9 tool. While my E4 has the updated mag catch, I want the tool (and a spare mag catch) just in case! You sir, are a hero and a scholar! |
| I’ve seen a bit like that before when I was an aircraft mechanic at Delta. Apex does make bits like that. They are restricted or “security” bits to tamper proof fasteners. After 9/11, we used something similar on the cockpit doors and electronic door locks to the cockpit. If it were me, I’d take out the fastener and replace it with a torx head fastener. Probably drill off the head carefully and use an “easy out” to get it out. PVK.com has several sizes of the different 3-pin bits. Surprised APEX does not make them. They, MSAR may have a patent on them being custom designed. I’d replace the screw with a regular hex head or Torx. |
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Originally Posted By dubagel: I’ve seen a bit like that before when I was an aircraft mechanic at Delta. Apex does make bits like that. They are restricted or “security” bits to tamper proof fasteners. After 9/11, we used something similar on the cockpit doors and electronic door locks to the cockpit. If it were me, I’d take out the fastener and replace it with a torx head fastener. Probably drill off the head carefully and use an “easy out” to get it out. Actually, that’s the plan…remove it and replace it with a torx or hex head fastener. |
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Originally Posted By jkirkon: That's AWESOME!!!!! Thank you! Just ordered the 4.9 tool. While my E4 has the updated mag catch, I want the tool (and a spare mag catch) just in case! You sir, are a hero and a scholar! Hopefully the pin spacing is the same. Let us know if it works! |
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Originally Posted By TSH77769: That's awesome and thank you so much for this! I would say the mad catch on the E4 is one of the biggest concerns for MSR owners. Originally Posted By TSH77769: Originally Posted By jkirkon: They say they will exchange for another one if it doesn’t work. I’ll keep everyone advised. That's awesome and thank you so much for this! I would say the mad catch on the E4 is one of the biggest concerns for MSR owners. Hey, we’re all in this together! Lol |
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Sorry for lack of updates, don't go on here much, and figured this post was pretty much dead in the water. Just recently received the E4 mag catch this past weekend, had it milled from a local machinist that used the CAD file I uploaded. Sadly, the mag catch does NOT work, even though all the dimensions were no more than .005" different than what was drafted. Issues noticed was the "hinge" mechanism of the catch was too tight. Not tight to the point where it wouldn't budge or fit when installing, but it was certainly enough to give the spring a tough time pushing it outward. Another issue was the step portion that engages into the mag slot was not catching all the way. When I inserted the mag, it would sorta lock in, but pulling on the mag with a decent bit of effort would let the mag come out without even touching the mag release, this could obviously be an issue that can't be ignored. Unfortunately, me being an impatient SOB, decided to make small adjustments to it by using a dremel (this was a prototype after all, so I was willing to mangle it up for sake of functionality). For some reason though, no matter what part of it I dremeled, it would not improve whatsoever. It got to the point though where I took off too much material and now it won't lock in at all  really not a good start to the year. As of now, I'll delete the CAD upload I linked early on, and suggest to NOT use it as a replacement for the stock E4 catch. I'm going to try revising the file, maybe undersizing those parts will help, but I can't guarantee it until I get another prototype made, which won't be for a good while. Sorry for the disappointing news everyone, I really wanted this to work. |
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Originally Posted By dubagel: I’ve seen a bit like that before when I was an aircraft mechanic at Delta. Apex does make bits like that. They are restricted or “security” bits to tamper proof fasteners. After 9/11, we used something similar on the cockpit doors and electronic door locks to the cockpit. If it were me, I’d take out the fastener and replace it with a torx head fastener. Probably drill off the head carefully and use an “easy out” to get it out. PVK.com has several sizes of the different 3-pin bits. Surprised APEX does not make them. They, MSAR may have a patent on them being custom designed. I’d replace the screw with a regular hex head or Torx. If you have the STG-556 stock (the one that takes the AUG waffle mags) the mag release screw on that one is a torx type; same thread pattern and diameter, only a couple mm longer than the E4 equivalent. I swapped mine out for that one once I got the cheapo tool made :) but you might be able to find one online. The thread size is 8-32, so it's thankfully not impossible to find, unlike like the 3-pin bit Microtech used lol. |
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Originally Posted By TSH77769: Can you summarize which ones are known not to work in one text for future reference. Negative ID is still useful. All from this vendor: https://www.pvk.com/microtech-tool-bits-s/670.htm These are the part numbers I’ve tried. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By jkirkon: All from this vendor: https://www.pvk.com/microtech-tool-bits-s/670.htm These are the part numbers I've tried. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/284805/IMG_0713_jpeg-3437346.JPG |
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Originally Posted By jkirkon: Do you think there’s a chance that the Microtech knife company would have the correct tool for the MSAR mag release?? I can't imagine why they wouldn't, they did make them afterall, and they must have had them in their factory when they were first making the rifles. Has anyone attempted to contact Microtech about this? Surely they must at least know what size it is. And is MSARDave still active on here? because if neither of those first two options work, he'd be the next best person to go to about this, assuming he'd even still remember something like that almost a decade later. |
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Originally Posted By Cumtardacus: I can't imagine why they wouldn't, they did make them afterall, and they must have had them in their factory when they were first making the rifles. Has anyone attempted to contact Microtech about this? Surely they must at least know what size it is. And is MSARDave still active on here? because if neither of those first two options work, he'd be the next best person to go to about this, assuming he'd even still remember something like that almost a decade later. I am still here, I was allowed to change my screen name here when I left the company. I do not remember the size of that tool but I do have one somewhere. |
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Originally Posted By Waambulance: Picked up an MSAR at an auction and when I received it there is no trigger pack. Anyone know where to pick one up or best route to go. Thanks If it is a Gen 4 then you can put an Aug stock on it and obviously an AG fire control group in the AUG stock. You can tell if it's a Gen 4 because the actual physical corners not just the striation or stripe pattern but the actual physical corners of the takedown latch on the topwill be square. Gen 3 and earlier are rounded on the top. You also can modify an Aug pack or MSR pack to fit in the other it's just a little bit of fitting with the plastic if necessary depending on which direction you're going. Also if none of that works I have a spare MSR pack you can contact me if you need to. |
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