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AL, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 11:06:50 AM EDT
[#1]
I’ve had great luck with OD Dylon over the last few years. I acquired (don’t ask) an older M65 in OD, the black Dylon didn’t pretend to touch it. Any thoughts?
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:15:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: That was my thinking with avoiding aluminum; while it'd probably work just fine (other than likely staining) I thought it best to avoid aluminum, particularly if you planned to reuse the pot since I imagine the rougher finish will retain some of the dye. I've done some home parkerizing and time and temp both have to be monitored closely to get close to the color you are trying for- it's why I thought of "pre-heating", especially for those items that are not readily taking taking dye. Next time I'm near one of the restaurant supply places that sells used kitchen equipment I'll look for a stainless pot or probably just end up buying one of the Walmart ones; either way I want it large enough that I can heat it on my outdoor burner and keep the temperature up once the item is added. Hopefully with Thanksgiving coming up I can find a stainless pot on sale. Again, porcelain coated boiling vessels are often far cheaper and far more available that stainless steel vessels. Almost all of my dyeing has been done with a porcelain-coated vessel (with lid) bought from local thrift store. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#3]
Quote HistoryDouble-tap |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:22:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By silver_back110: I've had great luck with OD Dylon over the last few years. I acquired (don't ask) an older M65 in OD, the black Dylon didn't pretend to touch it. Any thoughts? Suggest you visit Rit dye site for info. |
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Posted: 11/2/2023 2:30:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sandboxmedic]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Funny you mention Home Parkerizing, as I've done such, to good effect, once I understood the process and the required chems. Takes some experimenting, just dyeing. Again, porcelain coated boiling vessels are often far cheaper and far more available that stainless steel vessels. Almost all of my dyeing has been done with a porcelain-coated vessel (with lid) bought from local thrift store. Yeah, the pakerizing takes some practice; getting the parts hot first and maintaining temp seems to be two of the biggest things although there doesn't seem to be a consensus on what that temp should actually be.  I'll have to look for the porcelain pots, but so far the only ones I've noticed at the thrift stores have been the crock pots and those are too small for most projects. I'll check next time I'm near the restaurant supply place or Wally World. ETA- The flea markets might have some too but ours are so overrun by illegals and just trashy that they make the Walmart and Goodwill seem tame. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2023 12:45:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Dyeing cotton/nylon cloth is an entirely different proposition compared to dyeing Nylon field gear. Suggest you visit Rit dye site for info. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By silver_back110: I've had great luck with OD Dylon over the last few years. I acquired (don't ask) an older M65 in OD, the black Dylon didn't pretend to touch it. Any thoughts? Suggest you visit Rit dye site for info. Yessir. Thank you. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2023 12:48:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Dyeing cotton/nylon cloth is an entirely different proposition compared to dyeing Nylon field gear. Suggest you visit Rit dye site for info. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By silver_back110: I've had great luck with OD Dylon over the last few years. I acquired (don't ask) an older M65 in OD, the black Dylon didn't pretend to touch it. Any thoughts? Suggest you visit Rit dye site for info. Yessir. Thank you. |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 3:44:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By silver_back110: Yessir. Thank you. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 10:36:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Anyone remember the approximate mix for something like ranger green?
2 parts taupe 1 part green apple sound close? Can I add salt and vinegar, heat, and just let it rip? I've read the whole thread but it's been a long time. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:44:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Borscht: Anyone remember the approximate mix for something like ranger green? 2 parts taupe 1 part green apple sound close? Can I add salt and vinegar, heat, and just let it rip? I've read the whole thread but it's been a long time. Always vinegar with pure nylon field gear. Vinegar/Salt with combo cotton/nylon items, usually clothing. What I DO suggest is dyeing items, such as grey UCP, in order to maintain the original pixelation pattern and the contrast between the lighter and darker individual pixels. It's easy to dye items, no matter original camo platform, black or some other color. Harder to dye "just a little bit" to maintain the original camo pattern. Most UCP items have their darker pixels greenish-based, and so are more easily dyed to greenish tints. The original light grey pixels absorb dye more readily, while the intermediate and darker pixels absorb dye to a lesser extent. So, it's a "balancing" act between maintaining original pixelated camo pattern and dying the entire item to a darker greenish hue. Dyeing UCP items to an overall brownish hue is a bit more complicated. See my comments above. It takes some experience to reliably dye nylon field gear to desired color which also maintains original camo pixelation. Suggest practicing on inexpensive items. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:52:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Also, even just a little green or brown added to ACU really makes a huge difference. You don't need much to make it usable.
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Posted: 6/19/2024 2:15:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Also, even just a little green or brown added to ACU really makes a huge difference. You don't need much to make it usable. IOW, some sort of "Green" dye, likely Rit Apple Green Dye, with a LOT more Taupe dye on UCP to make it "Olive Drab" in final color. Call it 1/3 parts of Apple Green and 2/3 part of Taupe for "olive drab" color. As always "pull" nylon items when they reach desired color. I have no recommendations as far as dyeing ACU items to "Ranger Green"; at least two types of "Ranger Green" available in the past; one "greener" and one "grayer". |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 2:24:05 PM EDT
[#13]
I think it's the Pegasus Solutions or whatever his channel is called, one of the One Sheppard guys, has a good video on dyeing cordura stuff. A few of them actually. He has the formulas he uses on there I think.
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Posted: 6/19/2024 2:52:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: I think it's the Pegasus Solutions or whatever his channel is called, one of the One Sheppard guys, has a good video on dyeing cordura stuff. A few of them actually. He has the formulas he uses on there I think. At this point, I reckon most surplus "grey" UCP items are sitting on vendor's shelves or have already been dyed into useful coloration. Part of the reason why having dyed many such UCP items in the past I made a point of obtaining "unmolested" UCP items for future sales. FWIW, I sold some WW I, WW II, KorWar and VN items for a LOT more than I paid for them. Just to say that "unmolested" and currently common GI items may be fairly cheap nowadays, but certain to be less common and more expensive in the future. I recently bought full-on ensembles of GI MOLLE rigs, both in UCP and uncommon Desert camo. Likely worth more, unmolested, in the future. Plan ahead. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2024 11:34:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Does anyone have any experience with dyeing the ECWCS Gen III level 5 soft shells, or even the patagonia/orc industries/beyond level 5’s? They’re all 100% nylon, so theoretically they should be dye-able. The only issue is that I’m fairly certain the level 5’s typically come with a form of DWR treatment applied to them. I know that DWR coatings can impede how well dyes apply to items, but I’ve been unable to find out if a DWR treated item would be straight up impossible to dye or if it would just significantly lengthen how long you’d have to dye it for. I would like to be able to dye the UCP level 5 jacket and pants since they’re a fraction of the price of the other issued level 5s, but I’m just unsure if it’s even possible. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or even any insights into removing a DWR treatment?
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Posted: 7/20/2024 7:44:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theearthday: Does anyone have any experience with dyeing the ECWCS Gen III level 5 soft shells, or even the patagonia/orc industries/beyond level 5's? They're all 100% nylon, so theoretically they should be dye-able. The only issue is that I'm fairly certain the level 5's typically come with a form of DWR treatment applied to them. I know that DWR coatings can impede how well dyes apply to items, but I've been unable to find out if a DWR treated item would be straight up impossible to dye or if it would just significantly lengthen how long you'd have to dye it for. I would like to be able to dye the UCP level 5 jacket and pants since they're a fraction of the price of the other issued level 5s, but I'm just unsure if it's even possible. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or even any insights into removing a DWR treatment? A lot of garments, especially GoreTex garments, can likely benefit from a really good washing, so long as the appropriate detergent is used. NO detergents with "Optical Brighteners". I use Woolite for nylon/cotton clothes, and "appropriate detergents" for GoreTex items. The "Marshmallow" garments should be OK to dye, once DWR is removed, since no GoreTex present. With "higher-level" ECWCS garments, the problem is that nobody knows whether or not the dye particles will clog the membrane in GoreTex garments, and so ruin the breathability of the garment. Most of us lack the equipment for testing whether or not the membrane has been ruined or not. WL Gore has been unresponsive concerning this question. Always clean/launder the garment(s) and make any repairs necessary before applying new DWR. Amazon sells iron-on grey or white "seam sealing tape" for repairing GoreTex garments. Clean surface with alcohol, let dry, and apply with flat iron set to fairly high heat. Read comments for flat iron heat settings. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 1:32:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Some of the L4 Windshirts, L5 Softshell Pants and Jackets, and L7 Puffy Tops and Bottoms are made from Epic fabric, which has a permanent DWR embedded in the threads themselves. I doubt you will be able to wash it out.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 4:48:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: I've never read instructions on how to remove DWR, but I guess that multiple washings using the appropriate detergent for your garment would be a good place to start. Suggest a number of repeated wash cycles, then a couple of rinses. Close all zippers prior to washing, lest open zippers abrade the fabric. Test for presence of DWR by tumble drying dry garment for 20 minutes on Med heat, then spray the garment with water to see if the water beads up (DWR present), or "Sheets" ("flat" water, no beading, no DWR). A lot of garments, especially GoreTex garments, can likely benefit from a really good washing, so long as the appropriate detergent is used. NO detergents with "Optical Brighteners". I use Woolite for nylon/cotton clothes, and "appropriate detergents" for GoreTex items. The "Marshmallow" garments should be OK to dye, once DWR is removed, since no GoreTex present. With "higher-level" ECWCS garments, the problem is that nobody knows whether or not the dye particles will clog the membrane in GoreTex garments, and so ruin the breathability of the garment. Most of us lack the equipment for testing whether or not the membrane has been ruined or not. WL Gore has been unresponsive concerning this question. I don’t have much interest in dyeing any goretex garments like the level 6s (I personally despise goretex lol), this would exclusively be for the level 5 softshells that are just a pure nylon shell with absolutely no permeable membrane like goretex or any kind of insulation in them at all. Considering the UCP level 5s can be had for pretty cheap, I might try repeatedly washing them like you said to see if it’s possible to remove the DWR treatment enough to properly dye them, and I then I could just re apply a DWR coating afterwards. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 4:51:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Some of the L4 Windshirts, L5 Softshell Pants and Jackets, and L7 Puffy Tops and Bottoms are made from Epic fabric, which has a permanent DWR embedded in the threads themselves. I doubt you will be able to wash it out. Interesting, do you know if that was limited to the higher end PCU L4, L5, and L7 garments from Patagonia and orc industries and such, or if the ECWCS Gen III level 4/5/7s also use that Epic fabric? |
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Posted: 7/20/2024 5:26:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Tagged. I have some mag pouches to try, and if it doesn't work rattle can goes psssst
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 6:19:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theearthday: Interesting, do you know if that was limited to the higher end PCU L4, L5, and L7 garments from Patagonia and orc industries and such, or if the ECWCS Gen III level 4/5/7s also use that Epic fabric? If I remember right, the PCU stuff I listed is all epic. ECWCS - the Level 5 stuff IS epic, the Level 7 stuff IS NOT from what I can tell. I have no idea about the windshirt. I know the Arktis shirt, which is listed as a ECWCS spec garment, is supposed to be made out of EPIC or something similar. No idea though. I'm sure the dye job will have SOME affect on the EPIC fabric, but I have zero idea how much. It's a....different kind of DWR. It might not have any affect at all. It might totally work. Wouldn't hurt to try - the level 5 stuff in ACU makes good winter overwhites if the dye job doesn't work. Be sure to report back though. Seriously. I'm curious myself. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 6:20:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNC: Tagged. I have some mag pouches to try, and if it doesn't work rattle can goes psssst RATTLE CAN GO PSSSST! |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 9:29:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: If I remember right, the PCU stuff I listed is all epic. ECWCS - the Level 5 stuff IS epic, the Level 7 stuff IS NOT from what I can tell. I have no idea about the windshirt. I know the Arktis shirt, which is listed as a ECWCS spec garment, is supposed to be made out of EPIC or something similar. No idea though. I'm sure the dye job will have SOME affect on the EPIC fabric, but I have zero idea how much. It's a....different kind of DWR. It might not have any affect at all. It might totally work. Wouldn't hurt to try - the level 5 stuff in ACU makes good winter overwhites if the dye job doesn't work. Be sure to report back though. Seriously. I'm curious myself. I’ll be sure to update with my results. The level 5 stuff is just such a good active winter shell that even if the UCP level 5s don’t take the dye well, I’d probably still use them, and they’re so cheap that I’m willing to experiment with them regardless |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2024 9:44:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theearthday: I’ll be sure to update with my results. The level 5 stuff is just such a good active winter shell that even if the UCP level 5s don’t take the dye well, I’d probably still use them, and they’re so cheap that I’m willing to experiment with them regardless Even the littlest green / brown tone added to it will help. If nothing else you have overwhites. |
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Posted: 7/20/2024 10:04:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Any fabric wizards dye a UCP goretex bivy bag?
Does the goretex just tell the dye to F-off? I am going to dye a backpack, but will throw in a bivy if it will work. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2024 12:22:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: Any fabric wizards dye a UCP goretex bivy bag? Does the goretex just tell the dye to F-off? I am going to dye a backpack, but will throw in a bivy if it will work. so goretex is a membrane that is in or under or between fabric layers. The outer layer of nylon should absorb the dye. However, I'm not sure if the dye will negatively affect the membrane itself? |
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Posted: 7/21/2024 9:01:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Yeah that's the 64-dollar question. I'm no chemical engineer, but I am guessing that whatever that dye is/does is not good for the gtx membrane.
But. I also think this "waterproof-breathable" membrane concept is bullshit. They have never proven to be "breathable" enough to make a significant difference, so IMO, it was all a big marketing crock of shite. You are better off concentrating on keeping a good DWR coating on the exterior layer. So the gtx layer would be of zero concern, for me. Also in my experience, gtx layers wear out quickly. Especially in boots with fine sand and so forth. So have shit-can most anything gtx a long time ago. A good hard shell layer with good ventilation is the way to go, IMHO. So yeah go dye this stuff, get it here you want, and then DWR it for the win. |
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Posted: 7/24/2024 4:33:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WillieTangoFox]
[#28]
Drying out now.
3 gallons brought to slight boil and then transferred to 5 gallon bucket. Pack placed in bucket, pre soaked in water. Solution added to bucket. Solution; 4 table spoon apple green, 4 table spoon dark brown, 1 cup vinegar, 1 table spoon dawn soap. 45 minutes. Will get better pics in the wild later in the sun.  Attached File |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/24/2024 7:29:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: Drying out now. 3 gallons brought to slight boil and then transferred to 5 gallon bucket. Pack placed in bucket, pre soaked in water. Solution added to bucket. Solution; 4 table spoon apple green, 4 table spoon dark brown, 1 cup vinegar, 1 table spoon dawn soap. 45 minutes. Will get better pics in the wild later in the sun. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0190_jpeg-3275918.JPG Ok, so that's actually half usable. It usually dries a shade lighter, so you might want to add a bit more green, but that is 1000 times better than ACU by itself. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 11:29:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: Drying out now. 3 gallons brought to slight boil and then transferred to 5 gallon bucket. Pack placed in bucket, pre soaked in water. Solution added to bucket. Solution; 4 table spoon apple green, 4 table spoon dark brown, 1 cup vinegar, 1 table spoon dawn soap. 45 minutes. Will get better pics in the wild later in the sun. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0190_jpeg-3275918.JPG For now, suggest leaving it alone; after further experience, you can revisit with more confidence in getting it "perfect"--likely with a little Dark Green dye. "Adjusting" such things is a more "advanced" skill, so practice first. Suggest giving some thought to masking the "female" buckles and painting them a more suitable color. Time spent in masking will be repaid in final product. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 12:15:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Yea. It definitely looks way better than ACU, and actually usable.
Post pics when you get it all dried out and such. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 1:44:15 PM EDT
[#32]
UCP items may be "useable" in some limited terrains. For instance, UCP items make for a far better "snow" and/or "rocky" terrain than many other camo schemes, unless the "other" camo schemes are expressly intended for such terrains. Such items usually very costly.
I spent good money on buying a very-full ensemble of MOLLE UCP gear items, as well as doing the same for MOLLE "Desert" camo items. Done while both camo schemes/gear were still available, and affordable. Naturally, I have the original MOLLE items in M-81 camo, as well as MOLLE items in modern OCP camo. Clothing to match. It's nice to have choices. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 1:47:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: UCP items may be "useable" in some limited terrains. For instance, UCP items make for a far better "snow" and/or "rocky" terrain than many other camo schemes, unless the "other" camo schemes are expressly intended for such terrains. Such items usually very costly. I spent good money on buying a very-full ensemble of MOLLE UCP gear items, as well as doing the same for MOLLE "Desert" camo items. Done while both camo schemes/gear were still available, and affordable. Naturally, I have the original MOLLE items in M-81 camo, as well as MOLLE items in modern OCP camo. Clothing to match. It's nice to have choices. Yea, I picked up some UCP stuff for cheap snow camo use. Softshell pants and jacket, rain jacket. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 2:13:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By marnsdorff: Yea, I picked up some UCP stuff for cheap snow camo use. Softshell pants and jacket, rain jacket. Even more so is the MOLLE "Desert" gear, which was made in rather limited quantities, and fast disappearing as a result. There are better commercial alternatives to such GI camo schemes, but comparatively quite expensive. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 3:03:50 PM EDT
[#35]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 3:06:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Huge improvement. Though it could probably use a little more, darker green.
Maybe add a tablespoon of dark green to that formula next time? |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 3:37:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#37]
One can always dye "darker" but never dye "lighter".
Much better, overall, than base UCP camo. Take some time and experimentation and see what you can do. |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 4:02:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WillieTangoFox]
[#38]
I have cut the dark brown down to two, added 4 table spoon dark green to the mix and another 2 gallons of water for the bivy sack, it is drying now. Will wait to photo when dry and outside in the sun
Eta; it is interesting what the camera on this Ipad sees……. Because this digital desert hat is a lot more green than what will capture on camera…… almost sees past the dye  Attached FileProbably should have thrown salt in to deal with the cotton blend, but it looks better in person |
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Posted: 7/25/2024 5:45:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Interesting how much lighter it is using dark green as a substitute for dark brown in the mixture,
Now with a stock UCP knee pad and US Multicam as reference materials.  Attached File |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2024 6:17:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: Interesting how much lighter it is using dark green as a substitute for dark brown in the mixture, Now with a stock UCP knee pad and US Multicam as reference materials. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/123862/IMG_0199_jpeg-3276833.JPG It defnitely turned it greener. Now you just need to make it browner too. |
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