I want an MP-5SD but, the German builds are lot more money and this rifle will be a user, not a collector piece.

I am looking at GotUzi / GreaseGunner PTR based MP-5SD with a compact B&T can.  Is this a good option for me to run 115/124 brass ammunition at subsonic velocities but, reasonably close to supersonic speeds?  Put another way, I don't want 600FPS shots and I want high 900's to ~1050FPS with common commercial ammunition.  How good is the compact B&T SD can on a rifle like this?  Better than common 9mm handguns?  Better than an SP-5 with an SWR Trident-9 or similar can?

For a bit over $4K at my dealer without taxes, are there other options I should consider.  This rifle is available near term as well so, a 2 year wait for another builder is a HARD NO!      And yes, this build has lacks the B&T barrel with everything coming from RCM for compliance.

TIA,
Sid

I caveat this post with I have no first hand knowledge and/or experience with the following. Just a bunch of online research.

Also check TPM Outiftters aka Hi Tec Arms   DFW based and they have in stock ready to ship options available.

Also from my research, a lot of people say the SD version is actually louder to the shooter than a regular SP5 with a suppressor.

That’s a big fat nope

Do you actually need a real SD build? I wanted one but I didn’t want to wait all that time that it would be waiting to be built.
This is just a hand guard frame and a Omega9k.
Attached File

Didn't TPM outfitters have QC issues in the past?

If your SD is louder than a regular MP-5/SP-5, you have a bad can or the wrong locking piece installed.

In the distant past, I heard a lot of questionable things about TPM SD cans.  At the time most said the RDTS can was heavy with a pleasant tone, and RCM and others were true size with better fit and finish.  The few that had multiple SD cans suggested the TPM was not as quiet as other options.  How this plays with current HTA cans is a mystery to me today.

I want subsonic velocity using standard brass ammunition that is 115/124gr where my subsonic 300BO doesn't work well.  This is application specific.  I also want a larger volume for a better tone than my non-SD HK SP-5.

Regarding the Omega 9 style options, I basically have that now with my SP-5.  It is good for range use but, not on my farm.  The Bixler mount is good but, overall the total package doesn't work good enough for me.

The HK SD is designed to shoot 124gr NATO ammo which is 1200fps out the muzzle. Takes it to subsonic through the barrel porting. The velocity is more near 1000, not the 600 you are worried about. With that bleed off you get a tremendous amount of gas and one dirty as sum bitch. Be prepared to clean frequently and if shooting a lot the same day, recommend taking a barrel brush, gun lube, and anti-seize with you. I have an MP5 SD(HK spec can), Full size(F1 Coaxial can) and K-PDW(wolfman short config). All are shot with their cans only and all are hearing safe. The SD is naturally the quietest with other 2 about the same. IMO, the K-PDW is the most fun to shoot. Just can’t beat the size/weight of the K and that cycle rate is to die for. The PDW is 4” shorter AOL and 2lbs lighter than the SD, both with cans and RDS’s.

The TPM cans sound fine. If anything I believe some have stated that they are possibly quieter than the B&T cans.

TPM went through some pains with delivery times, bad comms, and long lead times but I've only seen a very small number of complaints about the actual finished products, and most of them were magnified by the lead times. Now that HTA is only selling off the shelf guns that should no longer eb an issue.

I have a 12" TPM can and have no regrets. I also got to meet Ken and Matt in their old shop before they went their separate ways and I'll say that whatever their failings in terms of running a business, they are true HK aficionados and very good at what they do.

I have one of the TPM full size suppressors and a couple of B&T units.

Personally i think the B&T units sound slightly better and the fit and finish is also much better.  The differences is  why I own three B&T SD suppressors and only one TPM unit.  (Bought the TPM unit first out of the four)

That said in terms of sound, outside in an open field/range you really can't tell much of a difference between a full size B&T and full size TPM.  Its more noticeable in a bad environment for suppressors like an indoor range that really magnifies the sound signature.

For most folks I think they would be well served by either unit.  However  with TPM as a business imploding and the new separate s entities (HiTec and KC)  I would probably buy a B&T unit as B&T USA is not going anywhere anytime soon.  TPM in its classic form also had some significant QC and Coms issues in my personal experience (as well as many other reports online) which is why I stopped using them years ago even though I would have loved to continue to support a local HK gunsmith.  What happens to the now separated newer/smaller TPM 2.0 entities is probably anybody's guess at this point.

I think you reported some zero shifts with your TPM can if Im not mistaken right?

I follow them on instagram and noticed the business change hands/names

They had a pic not long ago of one of their new SD cans and it appears to include a wave type spring at the end of the baffle stack which isnt present in my OG TPM can.

Id have to imagine thats there now to keep the baffles from shifting in case of tolerance stacking / wear

For the records sake I remember TPM being touted as one of the more quiet and available SD can. Mine seems pretty quiet. Its certainly my quietest autoloader but I have never compared it to another SD offering. Compared to a MP5 with a 3 lug can(with sub ammos of course) the SD is a touch quieter. I sorta feel its almost a unfair comparison however. The 124/115gr most people will run out of a SD has more powder to burn than ammo built to be subsonic with heavy projectiles and the fastest powders.

I think playing with the locking pieces would be beneficial for anyone who thinks they have a loud SD. Its got to be hard to mess up the suppression aspect of a SD can with how much volume is available

Help me understand.  I'd assume your saying if a MP5SD host is loud to go down in size (i.e. use a 110 or 100 degree locking pieces) in order to delay the bolt from unlocking?  

I have never noticed a POI impact shift with mine but I also shot it, let it sort of glue itself together and have never taken it apart to clean either which seem to exacerbate the POI shifts folks saw due to tolerance stacking issue of the baffles.  I also leave it on an Sig MPX-SD I built that doesnt get a ton of rounds down the barrel either so I am not super concerned about needing to clean it.

My main detractions on the TPM can were cosmetically it not all that great. I put a comparison on HKPro.  Outside the suppressor sounds really good.  I have  test range/trap in my workshop which will really magnify the sound and inside into the trap you can tell the difference between the  TPM and B&T.

TPM also did a not great job on a SP5K I sent them where they were lazy where it appears they just milled the old markings away instead of welding them over and blending it back in so now my gun has a weird step down in the top rib that shouldn't be there.  It also came back with the bolt gap almost out of spec on the lower end like 0.010 when they put the B&T N barrel in.  I ended up fixing it with + rollers.   A HK93 to HK33 I have of theirs the remarking are not exactly straight in line with each other either.  

They also shoot at the same range in Dallas I am a member of and on one occasion Kent was touting TPM and badmouthing other builders which I found off-putting.  

Between the endless delays/excuses, less than stellar results and some off-putting in person conversations I moved on years ago.

In terms of locking pieces I couldn't agree more.   The standard 115 and 120 SD LPs are way over-aggressive IMHO.  I run either the 110 with 115gr ammo or the standard 100 with 124gr ammo.

I owned both a dealer sample MP5SD and a Qualified converted MP5 to MP5SD and they were horribly gassy. Quiet, but no fun to shoot for extended times. I ended up shooting my Sterling L34A1 all the time and got rid of my HK's. Bad decision in the long run, because I don't have the Sterling any longer either. Young and dumb.

I now have a SBR'd PTR9 and I love shooting it suppressed. Much less gas. I'd never own and actual SD, but I did buy the handguard adapter and SD handguard, just for the looks. Love shooting it even with the obligatory HK manual of arms.

It sounds like GG's PTR SD checks all of your boxes. I saw it posted over on the HK Forum. He is building a great reputation over there. I'd take a look at HiTec as well. Their full size is around $4500. After that, the next step up price wise would be buying an SP5 and sending it in for the conversion. I went this route and it's going to run me about $4800 without the suppressor ($2600 SP5 + $2200 conversion).

Something to keep in mind is the PTR comes with the B&T compact suppressor, which means you'll have a louder shooting experience. You'd need to get a full size suppressor to truly experience the benefit of an SD gun IMO. There are only a few options out there right now until B&T releases their new versions (I'm told Q3 of this year). HiTec and Ronin are the only two I've found in stock.

Uh...  not even close.  I've got 3 MP5's and an SD - and the SD is considerably more quiet.  I can't even fathom how someone considers it even debatable.

I dont know WTF you are researching but this is not even close to the truth.  The MP5SD is the quietest 9mm platform there is short of a bolt action suppressed 9mm like the De Lisle.  The other amazing thing about the MP5SD is that its just as quiet with supersonic ammo and sub sonic ammo is not needed.  A suppressed standard MP5 is not even close to the same.  I am not saying that that's not a decent route to take but if you want MP5SD quiet there is no way to reproduce it in the standard platform.

To the OP I would call Mike at Michaels Machines.  He build amazing guns and is quick.  While I love my RDTS built MP5SD it took 3 years to get it.  Mikes turn around is only a few months.

http://www.michaelsmachines.com/

WAT tHe HeLL.

Wrong.

Do tell?

Ap5 and a S&H conversion ?

Is Curtis still doing that sort of work?

I spoke with him in March before ultimately deciding to go with Dakota. As of then he was still doing them.