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Posted: 9/1/2023 5:32:42 PM EDT
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I recently bought a pistol and rifle from different on-line retailers, to be sent to the same FFL. I received notification the first had shipped, and when he received it, I picked it up. At that time I hadn't received notification the other had shipped. It arrived the following day. My FFL indicated there was some rule where I could have picked up both at the same time, but now had to wait 5 business days to pick up the 2nd one. I've never heard of that before, has anyone else? Is it something unique to Texas? |
| Sounds like a state law. To my knowlege there is no fed law to that but I've been out for a long time. Maybe the dealer could explain it better. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
| There is nothing legally preventing him from transferring it to you. Sounds to me like he is trying to avoid the multiple sales reporting requirement. Dealers in border states are required to report multiple sales of rifles to a single person in a 5 day period, all dealers across the country are required to report them for handguns. |
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Originally Posted By jwlaxton: I recently bought a pistol and rifle from different on-line retailers, to be sent to the same FFL. I received notification the first had shipped, and when he received it, I picked it up. At that time I hadn't received notification the other had shipped. It arrived the following day. My FFL indicated there was some rule where I could have picked up both at the same time, but now had to wait 5 business days to pick up the 2nd one. I've never heard of that before, has anyone else? Is it something unique to Texas? No. FFL does not know what he is talking about. There is no limit or timespan on how many guns you can buy. |
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Originally Posted By jwlaxton: I recently bought a pistol and rifle from different on-line retailers, to be sent to the same FFL. I received notification the first had shipped, and when he received it, I picked it up. At that time I hadn't received notification the other had shipped. It arrived the following day. My FFL indicated there was some rule where I could have picked up both at the same time, but now had to wait 5 business days to pick up the 2nd one. I've never heard of that before, has anyone else? Is it something unique to Texas? Your FFL is an idiot. No federal or Texas law limits how many firearms a person can buy at once, in a week/month/year. There are no waiting periods in federal law or Texas law. See why he's an idiot?  A dealer who transfers more than one handgun to the same person in a five business day period, must submit a Multiple Sale of Pistols & Revolvers form to ATF and a copy to local CLEO. Dealers licensed as an 01FFL in the border states (TX, NM,AZ, CA) are also required to submit a Multiple Sale of Certain Rifles form to ATF when they transfer more than one semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a caliber greater than .22 that accepts a detachable magazine, in any five business day period. The dealer completes and submits those forms, not the customer. Those two requirements have nothing to do with you or your dealer as it wasn't two handguns or two rifles, but one of each. You could buy twenty shotguns, six lever action rifles, a Glock, an AR, eighty seven stripped AR lowers and no Multiple Sale form is required. In both cases the five business day period are the days the dealer is open for business. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
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I have no doubt that our ARFCOM brethren are correct. HOWEVER...many FFL holders seem to have some areas where their interpretation isn't always in agreement with the law/regulations. I have been able to educate some. Others, not so much. I kind of get them doing what they're comfortable with even if it is more restrictive than what the law is - their business, their rules. I have the choice of going elsewhere. |
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
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Originally Posted By Cycolac: I have no doubt that our ARFCOM brethren are correct. HOWEVER...many FFL holders seem to have some areas where their interpretation isn't always in agreement with the law/regulations. I have been able to educate some. Others, not so much. I kind of get them doing what they're comfortable with even if it is more restrictive than what the law is - their business, their rules. I have the choice of going elsewhere. I totally agree with Freedom to choose "My business - My rules". I also tend to walk away from businesses with that type of attitude. I asked him to provide a link of the law/ATF rule that requires the wait. Perhaps he'll figure it out, or prove it to me, perhaps not. If he doesn't prove the law/rule exists, or realize he made a mistake, I simply won't do business with him again. He's a retired home based FFL, and a friendly guy, so I won't disparage him on the internet. |
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Originally Posted By jwlaxton: I totally agree with Freedom to choose "My business - My rules". I also tend to walk away from businesses with that type of attitude. I asked him to provide a link of the law/ATF rule that requires the wait. Perhaps he'll figure it out, or prove it to me, perhaps not. If he doesn't prove the law/rule exists, or realize he made a mistake, I simply won't do business with him again. He's a retired home based FFL, and a friendly guy, so I won't disparage him on the internet. Capitalism, fortunately you can take your business elsewhere. FFL search engines might show a surprising number nearby or on your work commute. Doesn't apply if you're a DC resident or out in the deep boonies |
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Originally Posted By CuldesacWarlord: He's avoiding the multiple sale reporting and telling you something else, imo That doesn't make sense if he said OP could have picked up both at the same time. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: That doesn't make sense if he said OP could have picked up both at the same time. We got it sorted out. He let an auditor confuse him a while back, and just never questioned it. I gave him some ATF FAQ links on the subject, and he ended up agreeing with me, and completed the transfer. Thanks everyone, for the feedback. |
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Originally Posted By CuldesacWarlord: He's avoiding the multiple sale reporting and telling you something else, imo There is no multiple sale reporting when the buyer picks up a rifle and pistol on the same day. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Any reason to avoid a multiple transfer if two pistol shipments show up within that 5 day period? Should I just be patient and wait it out? Report of multiple |
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Originally Posted By erazor55: Any reason to avoid a multiple transfer if two pistol shipments show up within that 5 day period? Should I just be patient and wait it out? When you get an inspection, If your IOI is any good s/he will spot it They are supposed to look for this. |
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Originally Posted By erazor55: Any reason to avoid a multiple transfer if two pistol shipments show up within that 5 day period? Should I just be patient and wait it out?... Are you an FFL or a customer? While not illegal, "structuring" your transfers does look suspicious. The IOI will see that in the dealers bound books. I've had questions about customers whose name the IOI remembered from another dealers inspection. I have customers that are paranoid of "being on a list". And yes, if the dealer completes and submits a Multiple Sale report ATF will keep that info. Every month I'll email at least a dozen of those reports to ATF. Nothing happens. In the last fifteen years, and a couple of thousand Multiple Sale reports only two customers told me that they had a visit from ATF. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Are you an FFL or a customer? While not illegal, "structuring" your transfers does look suspicious. The IOI will see that in the dealers bound books. I've had questions about customers whose name the IOI remembered from another dealers inspection. I have customers that are paranoid of "being on a list". And yes, if the dealer completes and submits a Multiple Sale report ATF will keep that info. Every month I'll email at least a dozen of those reports to ATF. Nothing happens. In the last fifteen years, and a couple of thousand Multiple Sale reports only two customers told me that they had a visit from ATF. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By erazor55: Any reason to avoid a multiple transfer if two pistol shipments show up within that 5 day period? Should I just be patient and wait it out?... Are you an FFL or a customer? While not illegal, "structuring" your transfers does look suspicious. The IOI will see that in the dealers bound books. I've had questions about customers whose name the IOI remembered from another dealers inspection. I have customers that are paranoid of "being on a list". And yes, if the dealer completes and submits a Multiple Sale report ATF will keep that info. Every month I'll email at least a dozen of those reports to ATF. Nothing happens. In the last fifteen years, and a couple of thousand Multiple Sale reports only two customers told me that they had a visit from ATF. To your question, I am the customer. Just wondering if after I’m notified it’s in, if i just wait a week, is that any kind of a problem. Your answer seems to suggest for me not to worry about it? Hell, aside from 4473’s we’re probably on all kinds of lists anyway. |
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Originally Posted By erazor55: To your question, I am the customer. Just wondering if after I’m notified it’s in, if i just wait a week, is that any kind of a problem. Your answer seems to suggest for me not to worry about it? Hell, aside from 4473’s we’re probably on all kinds of lists anyway. The timer starts when you 4473 the first handgun, not when dealer notifies you. |
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