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Posted: 5/10/2014 10:58:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
Nobody anymore. They were an Israeli company that got caught playing fast and loose with their UL tags. They have been out of business for several years, and I don't think they were around very long. I have never seen one in real life, although they seem to be somewhat common in the New York area. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
who makes the Soltam Excalibur? Nobody anymore. They were an Israeli company that got caught playing fast and loose with their UL tags. They have been out of business for several years, and I don't think they were around very long. I have never seen one in real life, although they seem to be somewhat common in the New York area. We dissected a Soltam Excalibur as part of a research project. We were blown away to find the door was filled with wood and gravel. There was no substantial barriers of any significance. This was a TRTL60x6. A child could break into it. We saw another (undisclosed brand) safe, a TRTL30x6, where the walls were supposed to have 4 inches of pure aluminum. There was barely 2 inches in most of the safe body, and on the back left edge about 4 square feet of the side and back there was none. It's really scary to think that these offshore manufacturers have the balls to cheat like this, and even more scary that they get away with it over and over again. We could never do this in the USA and get away with it. We have see lots of reports of similar stories of several well respected brands from all over the world. Buyer beware... |
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Posted: 5/10/2014 11:13:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toolmaniac:
Regarding AMSEC, my only request was to see an unfinished safe. I didn't need a tour of the plant, proprietary info ( I asked no further questions on the wall thickness) or to occupy more than 30 minutes of someone's time at AMSEC. The additional questions concern corporate philosophy. Instead of a reasonable response to assure me that you build quality safes, review or investigate data on safe breaches and failures (to avoid a costly safe tech call) and try to keep up in the world of technology (hopefully AMSEC does this) I get a response that puts you on the defensive. Take a deep breath, I am not the enemy. I am not being defensive, I am merely pointing out how this all works. I was only explaining why your request to see a safe unfinished is an unrealistic goal in your investigation to gain assurance that a safe manufacturer is putting out a legitimate quality product. Practically speaking, unless you had access to the official inspection procedure used by UL Follow-up Services, you could not verify the rating compliance anyway. Seeing the unfinished safe would not serve any purpose, because you would not know what to look for. As for quality and support, many others will attest to the untarnished reputation that AMSEC has in this industry. We strive to be the best. You will NEVER get the kind of support we provide with an imported product sold thru some importer/distributor. None of those guys have the infrastructure and service network that we have. Safes of this type are not perfect, and will never measure up to the glamorous visual impact of a precision made machined bank vault door that is portrayed in so many movies. That is a Hollywood image that nobody aspires to, not even the guys that make vaults like that. Those are relics from the past anyway, and nobody makes vault doors like that any more. All that beauty serves no practical purpose, except to impress you with shiny machined metals. They can still be opened with one well placed hole with the right tools |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2014 11:42:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Col_B]
[#3]
Hypothetical question for Tony (and any other qualified subject matter experts):
A large TL-30 safe, i.e. CF6528 or CF7236 housed in an insulated and conditioned closet (central A/C & Heat) only 5’x5’x8’H (25ft2 / 200ft3), the front of which is a 5’-0”x6’8” double leaf outswing door. Opening the safe requires opening both closet door leaves, since the safe door swings through an arc which extends approximately 2’ beyond the closet door jamb. The closet/safe are conditioned space due to the temperature and humidity sensitivity of the property stored inside, (which tolerate limited excursions into hot/humid environments, but generally require a stable, “human comfort” environment of approximately 80° +/- 5° and 45%-55% RH). The conditioned environment is typically 78°-82° F and 45%-55% RH, with closet and safe at equilibrium. The environment outside of the “closet” is often 88°-98° F and 90%-95% RH. Thus, when open, the closet and interior of safe are exposed to the high temperature and high humidity environment, which can essentially displace the cool and dry conditioned environment. The safe can be open as much as 10-15 minutes when loading/unloading sensitive contents. After safe access, the safe door would be left partially ajar (several inches) while the closet doors are closed and the conditioned environment is re-established. Once the RF-Remote Thermometer/Hygrometer indicates that the safe interior has returned to the conditioned state, the safe door would be quickly closed and secured. Would this scenario be expected to result in the cool/dry metal box (safe) and its contents developing condensation when the closet/safe are temporarily “flooded” by warm/humid air, or is this a feasible plan? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2014 12:14:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Col_B:
Hypothetical question for Tony (and any other qualified subject matter experts): A large TL-30 safe, i.e. CF6528 or CF7236 housed in an insulated and conditioned closet (central A/C & Heat) only 5’x5’x8’H (25ft2 / 200ft3), the front of which is a 5’-0”x6’8” double leaf outswing door. Opening the safe requires opening both closet door leaves, since the safe door swings through an arc which extends approximately 2’ beyond the closet door jamb. The closet/safe are conditioned space due to the temperature and humidity sensitivity of the property stored inside, (which tolerate limited excursions into hot/humid environments, but generally require a stable, “human comfort” environment of approximately 80° +/- 5° and 45%-55% RH). The conditioned environment is typically 78°-82° F and 45%-55% RH, with closet and safe at equilibrium. The environment outside of the “closet” is often 88°-98° F and 90%-95% RH. Thus, when open, the closet and interior of safe are exposed to the high temperature and high humidity environment, which can essentially displace the cool and dry conditioned environment. The safe can be open as much as 10-15 minutes when loading/unloading sensitive contents. After safe access, the safe door would be left partially ajar (several inches) while the closet doors are closed and the conditioned environment is re-established. Once the RF-Remote Thermometer/Hygrometer indicates that the safe interior has returned to the conditioned state, the safe door would be quickly closed and secured. Would this scenario be expected to result in the cool/dry metal box (safe) and its contents developing condensation when the closet/safe are temporarily “flooded” by warm/humid air, or is this a feasible plan? You've got such a huge investment in your garage that I would consider simply air conditioning the whole garage and/or adding a commercial dehumidifier with a pump/discharge outside. |
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Posted: 5/10/2014 2:03:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Col_B:
Hypothetical question for Tony (and any other qualified subject matter experts): A large TL-30 safe, i.e. CF6528 or CF7236 housed in an insulated and conditioned closet (central A/C & Heat) only 5’x5’x8’H (25ft2 / 200ft3), the front of which is a 5’-0”x6’8” double leaf outswing door. Opening the safe requires opening both closet door leaves, since the safe door swings through an arc which extends approximately 2’ beyond the closet door jamb. The closet/safe are conditioned space due to the temperature and humidity sensitivity of the property stored inside, (which tolerate limited excursions into hot/humid environments, but generally require a stable, “human comfort” environment of approximately 80° +/- 5° and 45%-55% RH). The conditioned environment is typically 78°-82° F and 45%-55% RH, with closet and safe at equilibrium. The environment outside of the “closet” is often 88°-98° F and 90%-95% RH. Thus, when open, the closet and interior of safe are exposed to the high temperature and high humidity environment, which can essentially displace the cool and dry conditioned environment. The safe can be open as much as 10-15 minutes when loading/unloading sensitive contents. After safe access, the safe door would be left partially ajar (several inches) while the closet doors are closed and the conditioned environment is re-established. Once the RF-Remote Thermometer/Hygrometer indicates that the safe interior has returned to the conditioned state, the safe door would be quickly closed and secured. Would this scenario be expected to result in the cool/dry metal box (safe) and its contents developing condensation when the closet/safe are temporarily “flooded” by warm/humid air, or is this a feasible plan? These conditions seem to warrant your concern about condensation. Any time an object is cooled below the dew point of the environment, you will see condensation. Simple as that. With 88ºF and 90% RH, the dew-point is 81-87 degrees. If the gun surface temperature is below 81º, you will have condensation. It's probably minor, but it will happen. It would probably be adequate to use a dry-rod heater in the safe, adding 3-5 degrees to the interior safe temperature is probably enough to avoid problems. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2014 8:21:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CaptnBill]
[#6]
I have a question about the CSC1413. I need a small safe for documents and misc valuables. I currently use a Sentry fire-box thing inside my low end Liberty (not even RSC rated I don't think) gun safe. I'm looking for something more secure that I can hide easier in my home. I've read that originally this safe line was designed by Amsec but is now built overseas. I've also read that the CSC line is a re-branded generic Chinese safe which seems to conflict with the designed by Amsec angle...
Are these things a POS at this point? I'm trying to secure ~15k worth of stuff against burglary, fire, being sucked into a tornado, and the cat peeing on everything. All of these probably have about the same risk level. I live in a low crime suburb in Pleasantville, USA and have a fire station close by. I also have a monitored alarm system (that doesn't always get turned on however). My house is recent construction and well maintained. My point is I'm on the low risk side for burglary/fire. I have more money in the form of guns/optics secured by my sheet metal/dry wall/non-RSC gun safe than I'm considering putting in the CSC line. I mainly want to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket, and can more easily hide a small safe than a full size gun safe. I was originally considering the CE1814, but I'm thinking it might not be worth the investment. I can move/install a 250 lb safe by myself, not so much with the 700 lb CE. There are plenty of things I could do with an extra $1k as well. However, I hate buying crap. I would rather cough up the dough and pay someone to install the thing that buy something that sucks... I found a damaged in shipping CSC1413 at a local safe dealer. The front upper left corner got smushed in a bit during shipping. It can be had at a substantial discount... Any advice? Edit: Is there a big difference between the CSC1413 and the UL1511? I mean one has a one hr UL rating vs your in house 2 hour...but they look pretty dang similar. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2014 11:21:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: turnip75]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaptnBill:
I'm trying to secure ~15k worth of stuff against burglary, fire, being sucked into a tornado, and the cat peeing on everything. You should be considering the small Amsec BF line: http://www.amsecusa.com/fire-safes/bf-safes/ . It's a good compromise if you don't need a TL safe and want more burglary protection than a regular fire safe. You should also have no problem installing it yourself. Another nice feature is the optional steel pedestal to lift the safe and make it easier and more convenient to use. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:27:11 PM EDT
[#8]
CaptnBill,
The CSC is an imported safe now, and there is a margin of quality when compared to the domestic safes. I would not say it's junk, but it is not as nice as the stuff we make in our factory. Turnips suggestion is a good one, and the BF Security safe line is pretty nice. It is an RSC rated line, which is probably marginal for the kind of value you are wanting to store. Really, if you want to have complete peace of mind, the CE Series AMVault TL15 is the right safe for you. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 9:23:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Mom's house was broken into Sunday. Dude didn't even try to get into the Amsec safe
Still go a Rolex and some other shit 
Will you send me one for free for my testimonial? 
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Posted: 5/14/2014 8:10:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iiibdsiil:
Mom's house was broken into Sunday. Dude didn't even try to get into the Amsec safe
Still go a Rolex and some other shit
Will you send me one for free for my testimonial? Just curious but what kind of Amsec safe? |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2014 7:03:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
CaptnBill, The CSC is an imported safe now, and there is a margin of quality when compared to the domestic safes. I would not say it's junk, but it is not as nice as the stuff we make in our factory. Turnips suggestion is a good one, and the BF Security safe line is pretty nice. It is an RSC rated line, which is probably marginal for the kind of value you are wanting to store. Really, if you want to have complete peace of mind, the CE Series AMVault TL15 is the right safe for you. Well I bought the dinged CSC model if for nothing else to use as a master bedroom/decoy safe. It was cheap enough to be worth the risk. All I can say is....yeaaaaah. I took the panel off the back of the door to arm the relocker, and I must say the um build "quality" is a little on the low side. Every time I simulate closing the door (the bolts spring closed once you close the door so far) the jarring of the bolt work causes the cement filler stuff to flake off and fall on the mechanism (considering there is no steel backing on the inside of the door where all the bolt work is attached. The thick coating of grease on everything gets a nice dusting of abrasive powder with each close. The spotty welds and rust spots are a nice touch too. The RTV along the inside corners is missing in multiple spots as well. Tapping along the outside of the safe reveals air space between the steel outer liner and the filler in multiple spots (and all along one side) Honestly my plan was to order one of the CE safes online (I wouldn't trust the only Amsec dealer in town to deliver/install something in my home) and use this one as a bedroom/decoy safe if it was on the low quality side, but this thing is so ridiculous I'm going to go in a different direction. You warned me at least :) I apologize for adding off topic info to this thread, but if you are someone who doesn't like scopes from Walmart, I'd skip the Amsec imports :) |
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Posted: 5/14/2014 7:25:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaptnBill:
Well I bought the dinged CSC model if for nothing else to use as a master bedroom/decoy safe. It was cheap enough to be worth the risk. All I can say is....yeaaaaah. I took the panel off the back of the door to arm the relocker, and I must say the um build "quality" is a little on the low side. Every time I simulate closing the door (the bolts spring closed once you close the door so far) the jarring of the bolt work causes the cement filler stuff to flake off and fall on the mechanism (considering there is no steel backing on the inside of the door where all the bolt work is attached. The thick coating of grease on everything gets a nice dusting of abrasive powder with each close. The spotty welds and rust spots are a nice touch too. The RTV along the inside corners is missing in multiple spots as well. Tapping along the outside of the safe reveals air space between the steel outer liner and the filler in multiple spots (and all along one side) Yea, that's sounds worse than I last saw, but it is what it is. The safe is built very heavy compared to most similar imports, but they are not very good at the finishing details, I admit. We are working on these things every day, and your report here is getting shared with the players that can affect change. I don't get involved in the direct safe vendor quality issues any more. These are all complaints that we see from other customers as well, but usually not all in one safe, LOL. I would suggest you remove the return spring on the boltwork. That is not necessary for residential use, and it accelerates wear on the parts. That is for commercial customers to account for the lazy store employees. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/16/2014 2:11:23 AM EDT
[#13]
For TheSafeGuy,
I just want to say thank you for all your input and expertise on this forum. You are mostly to blame for me ordering an AMSEC BF7240 and also the PS1210 HD handgun safe! I just recieved a confirmation e-mail stating it would be mid June before it is delivered, I guess you guys are busy. Thanks P |
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Posted: 5/16/2014 1:15:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RFmissile:
For TheSafeGuy, I just want to say thank you for all your input and expertise on this forum. You are mostly to blame for me ordering an AMSEC BF7240 and also the PS1210 HD handgun safe! I just recieved a confirmation e-mail stating it would be mid June before it is delivered, I guess you guys are busy. Thanks P This is one time I don't feel guilt for being blamed. Lead times are usually 4-6 weeks, unless you find a dealer with stock. The BF Gunsafe business has been busy. A good bit of that is from ARFCom membership. |
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Posted: 5/16/2014 2:48:37 PM EDT
[#15]
That is to be expected. I wish your website was better, so that getting people good information wasn't dependent on them being a member and stumbling across this ONE thread or otherwise having some superhuman ability to find a proper dealer in the midst of all the bullshit dealers out there.
I know that you just redid your website, but I'm sorry to tell you that it is substandard. I hope this doesn't offend. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/16/2014 10:07:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Are the esl 5 locks not for sale? Have one that came with my safe that I already had purchased an esl10 for. It's basically a new take off. Thinking about putting it up for sale but have nothing to reference it against to determine a price.
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Posted: 5/17/2014 2:28:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: This is one time I don't feel guilt for being blamed. Lead times are usually 4-6 weeks, unless you find a dealer with stock. The BF Gunsafe business has been busy. A good bit of that is from ARFCom membership. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: Originally Posted By RFmissile: For TheSafeGuy, I just want to say thank you for all your input and expertise on this forum. You are mostly to blame for me ordering an AMSEC BF7240 and also the PS1210 HD handgun safe! I just recieved a confirmation e-mail stating it would be mid June before it is delivered, I guess you guys are busy. Thanks P This is one time I don't feel guilt for being blamed. Lead times are usually 4-6 weeks, unless you find a dealer with stock. The BF Gunsafe business has been busy. A good bit of that is from ARFCom membership. Great choices on both fronts and worth the wait!  In all honesty, I've learned a lot here/other threads "TSG" has participated in and am truly glad I PAINFULLY saved some $ to spend on a real "RSC" regardless of brand... Let's just say I was pretty impressed w/ AMSEC BF series. |
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Posted: 5/17/2014 9:01:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Just curious but what kind of Amsec safe? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
Mom's house was broken into Sunday. Dude didn't even try to get into the Amsec safe
Still go a Rolex and some other shit
Will you send me one for free for my testimonial? Just curious but what kind of Amsec safe? Gun safe style, 20 minute fire rating. Couldn't find a model number on it. |
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Posted: 5/17/2014 11:09:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By techbrute: I wish your website was better, so that getting people good information wasn't dependent on them being a member and stumbling across this ONE thread or otherwise having some superhuman ability to find a proper dealer in the midst of all the bullshit dealers out there.
I know that you just redid your website, but I'm sorry to tell you that it is substandard. I hope this doesn't offend. No offense taken. I passed your comments to the manager in charge. Feedback is a good thing, and we are keenly aware of our dealer reference issues. That is going to get fixed. Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/17/2014 11:18:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By berry79:
Are the esl 5 locks not for sale? Have one that came with my safe that I already had purchased an esl10 for. It's basically a new take off. Thinking about putting it up for sale but have nothing to reference it against to determine a price. The ESL5 is not for sale as a kit yet. Our quality process dictates that we install locks at the factory for a while until we are confident that the product is solid. When we start selling kits, we want to be sure that the challenges will be installation related. It takes a while to make sure that the locks installed at the factory have had some real use in the field under real life conditions. You can't rush a new product release, that can kill a product before it's time. I would expect the ESL5 to release as a kit later this year, maybe Sept.-Oct. time-frame. As for value, it should sell for something less than the ESL10XL. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2014 3:38:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The ESL5 is not for sale as a kit yet. Our quality process dictates that we install locks at the factory for a while until we are confident that the product is solid. When we start selling kits, we want to be sure that the challenges will be installation related. It takes a while to make sure that the locks installed at the factory have had some real use in the field under real life conditions. You can't rush a new product release, that can kill a product before it's time. I would expect the ESL5 to release as a kit later this year, maybe Sept.-Oct. time-frame. As for value, it should sell for something less than the ESL10XL. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By berry79:
Are the esl 5 locks not for sale? Have one that came with my safe that I already had purchased an esl10 for. It's basically a new take off. Thinking about putting it up for sale but have nothing to reference it against to determine a price. The ESL5 is not for sale as a kit yet. Our quality process dictates that we install locks at the factory for a while until we are confident that the product is solid. When we start selling kits, we want to be sure that the challenges will be installation related. It takes a while to make sure that the locks installed at the factory have had some real use in the field under real life conditions. You can't rush a new product release, that can kill a product before it's time. I would expect the ESL5 to release as a kit later this year, maybe Sept.-Oct. time-frame. As for value, it should sell for something less than the ESL10XL. Thanks. Thought it was just me having trouble finding them. Lol |
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Posted: 5/17/2014 8:08:11 PM EDT
[#22]
What all is included with the AMSEC LED Light Kit?
I saw it as an upgradable feature at time of purchase, but at 150$ it seems rather steep for lighting. Will this be something I have to install myself if ordered with a safe? (or will this depend on the dealer I buy it from?) |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 11:27:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
What all is included with the AMSEC LED Light Kit? I saw it as an upgradable feature at time of purchase, but at 150$ it seems rather steep for lighting. Will this be something I have to install myself if ordered with a safe? (or will this depend on the dealer I buy it from?) If you order the LED Lighting system option with the safe, it will be installed for you. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 11:36:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The ESL5 is not for sale as a kit yet. Our quality process dictates that we install locks at the factory for a while until we are confident that the product is solid. When we start selling kits, we want to be sure that the challenges will be installation related. It takes a while to make sure that the locks installed at the factory have had some real use in the field under real life conditions. You can't rush a new product release, that can kill a product before it's time. I would expect the ESL5 to release as a kit later this year, maybe Sept.-Oct. time-frame. As for value, it should sell for something less than the ESL10XL. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By berry79:
Are the esl 5 locks not for sale? Have one that came with my safe that I already had purchased an esl10 for. It's basically a new take off. Thinking about putting it up for sale but have nothing to reference it against to determine a price. The ESL5 is not for sale as a kit yet. Our quality process dictates that we install locks at the factory for a while until we are confident that the product is solid. When we start selling kits, we want to be sure that the challenges will be installation related. It takes a while to make sure that the locks installed at the factory have had some real use in the field under real life conditions. You can't rush a new product release, that can kill a product before it's time. I would expect the ESL5 to release as a kit later this year, maybe Sept.-Oct. time-frame. As for value, it should sell for something less than the ESL10XL. I think I understand what you mean, but... are you saying that some of the ESL5's installed at the factory are not up to par because it is a new lock, and sometimes needs to be replaced with another lock unit in house before the safe leaves the factory? Or are you saying that you try to conduct a long term study of the ESL5 equipped safes, and in order to minimize variables you want to include only factory installed locks (and not third party retrofits) in that study? |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 1:55:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By P400:
I think I understand what you mean, but... are you saying that some of the ESL5's installed at the factory are not up to par because it is a new lock, and sometimes needs to be replaced with another lock unit in house before the safe leaves the factory? Or are you saying that you try to conduct a long term study of the ESL5 equipped safes, and in order to minimize variables you want to include only factory installed locks (and not third party retrofits) in that study? The latter. Part of our reliability assurance is to eliminate the variables associated to installation. We find that the service incidence rates rise to 2-3 times the norm when "others" install the locks. Installing a lock may seem trivial, but in reality people screw-the-pooch at an alarming rate. Pinching wires, boltwork binding the bolt, warped mount plates, use of hammers and other unnecessary tools causing damage. You would not believe some of the hack jobs we see when we call back warranty replacement locks. Our warranty policy requires the return of the old parts before we will pay any locksmith invoices. It's a necessary and expensive process, but we find that retrofit locks (sold as kits) suffer a much higher failure rate. We track the retrofit kits by Serial Number so we can separate the statistics We can and do deny warranty claims when the evidence of a botched install is blatant. Requiring the return of the replaced parts brings a higher level of "honesty" from the field techs. But, yes, the intent of an extended test plan is essential in assuring a reliable product without undue noise from installer issues. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/18/2014 10:06:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks for all the info TSG! It's incredible that you have brought to market the improved BF and RFX safes based on this forum!
I have a few questions and I don't really trust my local safe store to give me accurate answers. I'm planning on getting the RFX703620 1. Does ESL10XL lock have any ability to connect to a home alarm system for a panic type alarm? 2. Does the RFX have a hole pre-drilled for power? (I don't think the CFX safes had a hole for power.) If it does, is it similar to the BF power connection? If it doesn't and I order the internal light kit, will they automatically put in a hole for power? 3. How many and what size anchor bolts would you recommend for a safe of this size? I think you mentioned before that a single 1/2 anchor bolt is all that is really needed. 4. Since I'm spending this much on a safe, do you think it's worth getting the three way bolt mechanism and glass relocker? As I understand it, the glass relocker would activate if the safe was attacked with a torch (at least to the front of the safe). Any downsides to adding this to the safe (except the cost, of course!) 5. Do the RFX safes come with a PDO - door organizer. I can't really find this info anywhere? 6. Is the order number for the RFX703620 really HS7943? That's what it's listed as in the 2014 price guide. I just don't want to end up with last years HS7943!! Thanks in advance! |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2014 11:39:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Thanks for all the info TSG! It's incredible that you have brought to market the improved BF and RFX safes based on this forum!
I have a few questions and I don't really trust my local safe store to give me accurate answers. I'm planning on getting the RFX703620 1. Does ESL10XL lock have any ability to connect to a home alarm system for a panic type alarm? not from my reading... but you can have a safe monitor attached to your alarm... thus if its armed and you open its going off anyway like a panic... need a different panel to partition this out but its this.. say you had the lock monitor this... well you need to have a cable connecting it... http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-SC100-Seismic-Vibration-Sensor/dp/B008BATSMM this will be armed... and if it is attached or opened it will know it... 2. Does the RFX have a hole pre-drilled for power? (I don't think the CFX safes had a hole for power.) If it does, is it similar to the BF power connection? If it doesn't and I order the internal light kit, will they automatically put in a hole for power? it has power but i dont know if thats an option... mine has some motion lights in it... and they work nice... the power is a pre configered strip that goes through the back wall... 3. How many and what size anchor bolts would you recommend for a safe of this size? I think you mentioned before that a single 1/2 anchor bolt is all that is really needed. it only has 1 hole in the bottom.. same story... value add if they rip this thing out of my house... my house is coming with it... its 4600 pounds... the shearing and bending forces of anchor bolts has also been discussed... it will take alot more for them to get this over on its side to attach on the ground... 4. Since I'm spending this much on a safe, do you think it's worth getting the three way bolt mechanism and glass relocker? As I understand it, the glass relocker would activate if the safe was attacked with a torch (at least to the front of the safe). Any downsides to adding this to the safe (except the cost, of course!) I said to myself yes... if i sell this later for whatever reason and a company wanted it... i figured they would want the commercial options... just a value add in my mind... 5. Do the RFX safes come with a PDO - door organizer. I can't really find this info anywhere? (i have a RFX AKA a CFX cause i did custom options... with the PDO... other than the internal dimensions if you arrange it like a gun safe you cant put a very thick weapon at all in full shelf configuration... it will bind... read back a few and TSG mentioned that. i have shelves and if i put a long gun on the door in the PDO where its designed you cant close it. 6. Is the order number for the RFX703620 really HS7943? That's what it's listed as in the 2014 price guide. I just don't want to end up with last years HS7943!! i remember catching a typo in the pdf price guide... notice their disclaimer... not responsible for information here... haha something like that. i think they got it out of order. Thanks in advance! msg me if you have more cfx questions... i suggest just figuring out what you want and call it custom... than submit the order dont worry about rfx cfx... you want a tl30x6 with a gun safe interior... in racecar red with a stripe and power and a custom lock with holdup alarm... order it :-D |
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Posted: 5/19/2014 2:08:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dvegas:
1. Does ESL10XL lock have any ability to connect to a home alarm system for a panic type alarm? The ESL10XL does not, but the ESL20XL does. There is an optional Expansion Module available for the ESL20XL that adds the options for external A/C power and Duress Alarm. The Duress feature is armed in the programming with a Function Code. When Armed, and equipped with the ESL20EXP1 kit, an output relay will signal for 3 seconds when you intentionally key the last digit of your code one number high or one number low. This is called Duress Alarm, as in you are opening the safe under Duress. The lock opens normally, and the signal is sent silently. There is no indication at the Keypad that you have summoned assistance. This is a common commercial feature used in retail to signal when a robbery is in progress. You could obviously use the output signal for anything you like (use your imagination). It has a dry-contact relay providing both NO and NC contact connections on a small screw terminal strip. There is also an external control port input included with this kit, which allows you to turn the ESL20XL lock on and off by an external switching device. This could be a simple hidden toggle switch or key switch, as well as a connection to your alarms system, such that the ESL20XL would be disabled when the Alarm System is armed. This function also must be armed in the programming with a Function Code. The Kit includes a wall-wart (transformer) that will serve power to the lock, such that the keypad batteries act as a backup power source when A/C power is lost. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/19/2014 8:32:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The ESL10XL does not, but the ESL20XL does. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By dvegas:
1. Does ESL10XL lock have any ability to connect to a home alarm system for a panic type alarm? The ESL10XL does not, but the ESL20XL does. Thanks TSG. On page 40 of the 2014 dealer catalog there is a table comparing the different electrical locks that states the ESL15, ESL10XL, and ESL20XL have "Duress" as "OPT" (which I figure means Optional). While the ESL5 is "N/A" Although I wish it were option, it sounds like it is not. How nice would it be to have help on its way when you are being forced to open your safe with a gun to your head. (Am I really this paranoid?) You might want to pass along this error... |
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USA
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Posted: 5/19/2014 9:08:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cj_the_pj:
5. Do the RFX safes come with a PDO - door organizer. I can't really find this info anywhere? (i have a RFX AKA a CFX cause i did custom options... with the PDO... other than the internal dimensions if you arrange it like a gun safe you cant put a very thick weapon at all in full shelf configuration... it will bind... read back a few and TSG mentioned that. i have shelves and if i put a long gun on the door in the PDO where its designed you cant close it. Thanks for the reply cj. Does anybody know if the PDO still binds on the gunsafe interior in the RFX? And does it come standard with RFX or does it need to be added on? |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 11:49:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Nick, That is an original RS6040 model. In the early days of fire-lined safes (mid-late 90's), we took our standard steel safe and added the fire-liner as an option. The heavy line then was a 4 gauge body and 3/8" plate door line we called the Cascade line. It's a nice safe, and much heavier than most safes today. the fire-liner is one layer as I recall at that time, and it should be a good 1/2 hour fire worthy product. Contemporary safes have evolved to be have less steel to offset the multiple layers of heavy drywall insulation. Again, weight has been the challenge in a market that does not like heavy. That safe is an RSC rated model, that's our UL listing designation number for RSC ratings. So, from a burglary perspective, great safe. From a fireproof safe, not up to today's 60 minute standards at 1200 degree test levels. Still, a great value and worth buying if I were in your position. TSG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By Nick_Adams314:
TheSafeGuy, First let me join everyone in giving you a big thanks for this thread!! It is really interesting and definitely educational, and I definitely appreciate you taking time out to chat with all of us!! Quick question for you: I ran across an old AMSEC safe I might be able to pick up at a pretty good price, but I am not sure of the model. I checked the door sticker and all I could find was BP6526, and Model 6/7/F/D/G/B on it, which seems to be the same letters and numbers as a safe you posted a pic of on page 17, which looks nothing like this safe. The safe is from the early nineties, I believe, and ostensibly has a 1/4" steel body and a 3/8" door, and is roughly 60x40x26 inches. Does an old safe like this compare favorably with more modern AMSEC products, or have enough new features been added (relockers or whatever), to make it better to get a newer safe. I would definitely be very grateful to hear any thoughts you might have on the possibilities of this specific safe, or safes of that age in general. Not sure what kind of fire liner it might have in it, but from the looks of it, it must be just drywall layers, if anything... Thanks for any insight you might have and for all the info you have dispersed so far! I hope we aren't wearing you out! Nick, That is an original RS6040 model. In the early days of fire-lined safes (mid-late 90's), we took our standard steel safe and added the fire-liner as an option. The heavy line then was a 4 gauge body and 3/8" plate door line we called the Cascade line. It's a nice safe, and much heavier than most safes today. the fire-liner is one layer as I recall at that time, and it should be a good 1/2 hour fire worthy product. Contemporary safes have evolved to be have less steel to offset the multiple layers of heavy drywall insulation. Again, weight has been the challenge in a market that does not like heavy. That safe is an RSC rated model, that's our UL listing designation number for RSC ratings. So, from a burglary perspective, great safe. From a fireproof safe, not up to today's 60 minute standards at 1200 degree test levels. Still, a great value and worth buying if I were in your position. TSG Was followinng this... I found an AMSEC BP6526, 60"x30"x26" manufactured 1Q2001. Gun shop is asking just shy of $900... Deal or no deal? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 3:38:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By disco_jon75:
Was followinng this... I found an AMSEC BP6526, 60"x30"x26" manufactured 1Q2001. Gun shop is asking just shy of $900... Deal or no deal? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You will need to have more information. The size alone does not define the finish, construction or if it has a fire rating. There are several possible safe models that meet that simple description. How much does it weigh? Does it have a fire liner? What lock is on it? What finish (textured or high-gloss)? How thick is the Door? Maybe someone that has a feel for the used safe market can comment. I have no idea if that is a good price. Sounds a bit high to me, considering there are new safes of that size selling for $600 in mass merchandisers like Costco. If it is one of the heavy duty "RS" safes (3/8" door, 1/4" body), and it has an automotive paint job, it could be worth a lot more. |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 3:42:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dvegas:
Thanks for the reply cj. Does anybody know if the PDO still binds on the gunsafe interior in the RFX? And does it come standard with RFX or does it need to be added on? That has supposedly been changed, so the PDO will not encroach on the interior panels. I'll check on that and update this post. UPDATE: The PDO is being sampled for the RF/RFX safes now. Once they are approved, the production orders will be placed. It will be 6-8 weeks before we have them in, and we reduce the rack depth of the interiors to allow space for gun storage in the PDO pockets. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2014 8:48:05 PM EDT
[#34]
so when will my new rack be on the way ;)
jhahaha |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2014 1:06:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Hello TSG
Recently picked up am AM3020 with an ESL5 lock. I searched your posts already with no results, but is the ESL5 easy to compromise? I know people have a huge sensitivity (thanks to defcon videos) of electronic locks, bump attacks, etc. Just curious - couldn't find anything particularly damning on the ESL5, but figured I would ask. |
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Posted: 5/28/2014 1:10:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chrisATX:
Hello TSG Recently picked up am AM3020 with an ESL5 lock. I searched your posts already with no results, but is the ESL5 easy to compromise? I know people have a huge sensitivity (thanks to defcon videos) of electronic locks, bump attacks, etc. Just curious - couldn't find anything particularly damning on the ESL5, but figured I would ask. The ESL5 is in the final stages of UL Type 1 Listing. This lock has proven to be a reliable and secure design, and should serve as the new standard in security in the vast AMSEC array of lock products. DEFCON hackers can have at it, they won't be defeating this lock. DEFCON slight of hand hack methodology only compromises weak and cheesy lock designs. This lock will soon bare the highest rating possible in the UL2058 standard, and will stand far ahead of the legacy lock designs that faced much easier testing historically. UL Testing procedures have matured considerably as they have developed their electronic and mechanical methods of attack. You can feel confident in your lock choice, and I assure you it will not fall to some simplistic hack with a toothpick or a paper clip. |
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Posted: 5/28/2014 2:50:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JE3146]
[#37]
Well after months of research, just placed my order for a BF7240 in sandstone with black nickel through Allied in Portland, OR. Nice company to talk to and they offered a very flexible delivery that helps me get it where I want it.
The wait begins. 
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Posted: 5/28/2014 6:30:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
Well after months of research, just placed my order for a BF7240 in sandstone with black nickel through Allied in Portland, OR. Nice company to talk to and they offered a very flexible delivery that helps me get it where I want it. The wait begins. I think you will like the sandstone color. I certainly like it on my BF6636. What lock did you choose for your BF?? |
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Posted: 5/28/2014 7:11:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JE3146]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
I think you will like the sandstone color. I certainly like it on my BF6636. What lock did you choose for your BF?? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By JE3146:
Well after months of research, just placed my order for a BF7240 in sandstone with black nickel through Allied in Portland, OR. Nice company to talk to and they offered a very flexible delivery that helps me get it where I want it. The wait begins. I think you will like the sandstone color. I certainly like it on my BF6636. What lock did you choose for your BF?? Standard dial. More of a preference thing I guess. Never been a fan of electronic locks for a number of reasons. I wasn't expecting to really like the Sandstone color, but after seeing a picture of the Sandstone/black nickel BF safe in this thread, both me and my wife unanimously agreed on it. Especially after seeing how it brightened the interior up. We still got the light kit to go with it, but it was nice to see the light interior. This thread has been a very educational (and expensive ) resource.
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Posted: 5/28/2014 9:02:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
Standard dial. More of a preference thing I guess. Never been a fan of electronic locks for a number of reasons. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
Originally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By JE3146:
Well after months of research, just placed my order for a BF7240 in sandstone with black nickel through Allied in Portland, OR. Nice company to talk to and they offered a very flexible delivery that helps me get it where I want it. The wait begins. I think you will like the sandstone color. I certainly like it on my BF6636. What lock did you choose for your BF?? Standard dial. More of a preference thing I guess. Never been a fan of electronic locks for a number of reasons. Same here. My dial has functioned very well and I have owned the safe since early November 2009. I am in it at least one time a day everyday. Although after reading a lot of posts by TSG on E-Locks I think if I did ever change to an E-Lock it would definitely be an Amsec brand. Still I am scared to death that the damn solenoid would fail or motor would give it up thus locking me out. 
That there is my kind of bad luck. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2014 11:12:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The ESL5 is in the final stages of UL Type 1 Listing. This lock has proven to be a reliable and secure design, and should serve as the new standard in security in the vast AMSEC array of lock products. DEFCON hackers can have at it, they won't be defeating this lock. DEFCON slight of hand hack methodology only compromises weak and cheesy lock designs. This lock will soon bare the highest rating possible in the UL2058 standard, and will stand far ahead of the legacy lock designs that faced much easier testing historically. UL Testing procedures have matured considerably as they have developed their electronic and mechanical methods of attack. You can feel confident in your lock choice, and I assure you it will not fall to some simplistic hack with a toothpick or a paper clip. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By chrisATX:
Hello TSG Recently picked up am AM3020 with an ESL5 lock. I searched your posts already with no results, but is the ESL5 easy to compromise? I know people have a huge sensitivity (thanks to defcon videos) of electronic locks, bump attacks, etc. Just curious - couldn't find anything particularly damning on the ESL5, but figured I would ask. The ESL5 is in the final stages of UL Type 1 Listing. This lock has proven to be a reliable and secure design, and should serve as the new standard in security in the vast AMSEC array of lock products. DEFCON hackers can have at it, they won't be defeating this lock. DEFCON slight of hand hack methodology only compromises weak and cheesy lock designs. This lock will soon bare the highest rating possible in the UL2058 standard, and will stand far ahead of the legacy lock designs that faced much easier testing historically. UL Testing procedures have matured considerably as they have developed their electronic and mechanical methods of attack. You can feel confident in your lock choice, and I assure you it will not fall to some simplistic hack with a toothpick or a paper clip. Thank you very much for the reply - really appreciate it. One more question - was looking into lighting systems for this unit, and was wondering if there was a pre-existing wiring hole for power/lights (other than the mounting holes which are in use) |
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Posted: 6/2/2014 1:01:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Plattekill]
[#42]
TSG, over at this thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1627894_.html&page=22&anc=47558258#i47558258 People are talking about a fundraiser to buy a safe for Lone Eagle, a subject of a news story. Comments would be welcomed. |
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Posted: 6/2/2014 1:31:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plattekill:
TSG, over at this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1627894_.html&page=22&anc=47558258#i47558258 People are talking about a fundraiser to buy a safe for Lone Eagle, a subject of a news story. Comments would be welcomed. I shared the story. Thanks... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2014 11:14:17 AM EDT
[#44]
TSG- I heard a rumor a few years back that for awhile, BF series gun safes were being constructed with a 4 gauge OUTER liner due to a shortage of 11 gauge steel. Based on one of your responses earlier in this thread regarding the difficulties involved in applying the BF design to a heavy gauge outer liner, I'm guessing that I should treat this rumor with the same degree of credence that I give to pictures of the Loch Ness Monster?
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Posted: 6/5/2014 2:39:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BurnOut:
TSG- I heard a rumor a few years back that for awhile, BF series gun safes were being constructed with a 4 gauge OUTER liner due to a shortage of 11 gauge steel. Based on one of your responses earlier in this thread regarding the difficulties involved in applying the BF design to a heavy gauge outer liner, I'm guessing that I should treat this rumor with the same degree of credence that I give to pictures of the Loch Ness Monster? BurnOut, you would be correct in that guess. Ignore the rumor. Maybe I should post that on Snopes.com... |
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Posted: 6/5/2014 3:54:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chrisATX:
One more question - was looking into lighting systems for this unit, and was wondering if there was a pre-existing wiring hole for power/lights (other than the mounting holes which are in use) They used to have a wire access hole, but the current models do not. There was so little interest that it was eliminated. Feel free to drill a 3/8" or 1/2" hole thru the wall and drywall liner. After you pull your wires/cables, back-fill the hole with regular clear silicone caulking (RTV). That stuff is an excellent sealant and has a very high temperature resistance. You will not compromise the fire rating if you do this. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:32:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
BurnOut, you would be correct in that guess. Ignore the rumor. Maybe I should post that on Snopes.com... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:06:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
They used to have a wire access hole, but the current models do not. There was so little interest that it was eliminated. Feel free to drill a 3/8" or 1/2" hole thru the wall and drywall liner. After you pull your wires/cables, back-fill the hole with regular clear silicone caulking (RTV). That stuff is an excellent sealant and has a very high temperature resistance. You will not compromise the fire rating if you do this. Little late now.. Already got it all mounted up to the point where this would be nearly impossible without removing a wall :o 
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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:39:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chrisATX:
Little late now.. Already got it all mounted up to the point where this would be nearly impossible without removing a wall :o <a href="http://imgur.com/gtdTrnc" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/gtdTrncl.jpg?1</a> Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chrisATX:
Originally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
They used to have a wire access hole, but the current models do not. There was so little interest that it was eliminated. Feel free to drill a 3/8" or 1/2" hole thru the wall and drywall liner. After you pull your wires/cables, back-fill the hole with regular clear silicone caulking (RTV). That stuff is an excellent sealant and has a very high temperature resistance. You will not compromise the fire rating if you do this. Little late now.. Already got it all mounted up to the point where this would be nearly impossible without removing a wall :o <a href="http://imgur.com/gtdTrnc" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/gtdTrncl.jpg?1</a> Does the door open far enough? |
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Posted: 6/10/2014 11:12:06 AM EDT
[#50]
That's a tight install, nice wood. Good job! Limited swing is going to be annoying...
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