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Posted: 6/29/2026 6:31:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ARK_Ginger][Edited]
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Does anyone have experience loading ramshot silhouette in 45 acp +p or 45 super? I’m working up a load for my 625 and I’m having unburnt powder left in the cases. I had a similar experience but worse with 357 and stopped using it. Attached File I wasn’t sure if someone else had a similar experience with this powder and caliber. Just to add, I do suspect I’m at the top end with this load already. 255gr rim rock doing 935 from a 4” barrel. |
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After looking around a bit more it appears that this is a common issue with silhouette even in higher pressure loadings. I might push my load a bit more to see if I can get close to the BB 45 AR +p load. I also plan on doing some 200gr xtp loads so I’m curious how it might work there. |
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7.3 gr CCI300 starline 45 AR brass 255 rim rock SWC @1.220” and a good crimp. I know it’s not a good idea to pursue Buffalo bore speeds, but their 45 AR +p load makes me think I’m leaving some performance on the table. If I can get silhouette to burn cleaner as well that’ll just be a bonus. |
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Originally Posted By tightlines49: I am just in here because I misunderstood and thought this was a +P .45 super loading discussion. I was curious, still am. Although I understand they are not 1=1, I understand the starline 45 AR brass is capable of 45 super loads, so I am beginning with 45 +p and 45 super data to load my 45 AR and looking for others experience with silhouette. From the load data I’ve seen for 45 super and the powders I’ve seen available in my area, I’ll probably be trying cfe pistol, longshot, and AA #7 if I can’t get silhouette to burn clean enough. |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: Does anyone have experience loading ramshot silhouette in 45 acp +p or 45 super? I'm working up a load for my 625 and I'm having unburnt powder left in the cases. I had a similar experience but worse with 357 and stopped using it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/469500/IMG_4440_jpeg-3787144.JPG I wasn't sure if someone else had a similar experience with this powder and caliber. Just to add, I do suspect I'm at the top end with this load already. 255gr rim rock doing 935 from a 4" barrel. |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: 7.3 gr CCI300 starline 45 AR brass 255 rim rock SWC @1.220” and a good crimp. I know it’s not a good idea to pursue Buffalo bore speeds, but their 45 AR +p load makes me think I’m leaving some performance on the table. If I can get silhouette to burn cleaner as well that’ll just be a bonus. From the load data I've looked at across a few cartridges, silhouette seems to have charge weights and pressure very close to longshot. I've not used silhouette. At 7.6gr of longshot with a lee 255gr at 1.22 oal, velocity is at 960fps from a 4.6" g21 barrel and at 1020 from a 6" g21. Longshot will give 10fps per .1gr of powder, I don't know if the same is true for silhouette. From load data I've seen fired from a 5.5" blackhawk using Sierra+p revolver loads, it looks a bit wonky, like it doesn't follow that trend. The same bullet, lee 255gr 1.22 oal and 7.9gr of longshot is right at 1000fps from a 4.6' g21 barrel. I've done some poor man's cup pressure tests using different headstamps of brass in a oem g21 barrel, which is very unsupported. Using some of the weakest 45 acp brass, 7.6gr of longshot does not bulge or get a smile on the brass, at 7.9gr it just begins to get a very slight smile line. Silhouette seems very close to longshot. The lee bullet is shorter than the one you're using, I think it's .64 long. I've had similar results to you using ramshot zip, unburnt yellow corn meal looking grains. Remember, even when your at 23-25k psi, that's still quite a bit lower than other auto cartridges. Don't be afraid to bump up the charge .3gr at a time. Try and see if you can get it to burn cleaner. That n frame is strong and it's cylinder is as big in diameter as a blackhawk, same amount of meat in between the chambers. The brass strength isn't really an issue due to the 100% case support in the revolver. |
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Originally Posted By sandspider500: From the load data I've looked at across a few cartridges, silhouette seems to have charge weights and pressure very close to longshot. I've not used silhouette. At 7.6gr of longshot with a lee 255gr at 1.22 oal, velocity is at 960fps from a 4.6" g21 barrel and at 1020 from a 6" g21. Longshot will give 10fps per .1gr of powder, I don't know if the same is true for silhouette. From load data I've seen fired from a 5.5" blackhawk using Sierra+p revolver loads, it looks a bit wonky, like it doesn't follow that trend. The same bullet, lee 255gr 1.22 oal and 7.9gr of longshot is right at 1000fps from a 4.6' g21 barrel. I've done some poor man's cup pressure tests using different headstamps of brass in a oem g21 barrel, which is very unsupported. Using some of the weakest 45 acp brass, 7.6gr of longshot does not bulge or get a smile on the brass, at 7.9gr it just begins to get a very slight smile line. Silhouette seems very close to longshot. The lee bullet is shorter than the one you're using, I think it's .64 long. I've had similar results to you using ramshot zip, unburnt yellow corn meal looking grains. Remember, even when your at 23-25k psi, that's still quite a bit lower than other auto cartridges. Don't be afraid to bump up the charge .3gr at a time. Try and see if you can get it to burn cleaner. That n frame is strong and it's cylinder is as big in diameter as a blackhawk, same amount of meat in between the chambers. The brass strength isn't really an issue due to the 100% case support in the revolver. Thank you for the info. I did not include a picture from my 7.0 gr loading, but it had much more unburnt grains in it. I'll bump up to 7.6 this afternoon if I get a chance and show a picture of my crimp as well. It is unfortunate that there isn't a better source for 45 super data. The data Hodgdon has available barely exceeds the standard 45 acp data. |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: I was shaving brass using a redding auto rim profile crimp die. I'll get some photos next time It's the expander that cures bullet scrape. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Ever heard of a Lyman M die? It's the expander that cures bullet scrape. I wasn't shaving lead off the bullet, I was shaving brass from using the crimp die. I'm using a Lee powder through die to expand the mouth, it didn't appear to be over belled. I'll get some pictures of some pre and post crimped rounds this afternoon when trying a higher charge weight. |
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I use Silhouette with 250gr RNL coated rounds loaded to full charge standard 45acp. 6.6 grains gets me to around 850fps from a 5" 1911. No unburnt powder and consistent performance. 7 grains would get me to over 900fps and +P, but I've never tried it. I also use Silhouette with 147gr coated lead TC's in a "Woodsman" 9mm load. 4.6 grains clocks in at around 950 from a Glock 19. Haven't pushed it to +P either. |
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Originally Posted By compuvette: I use Silhouette with 250gr RNL coated rounds loaded to full charge standard 45acp. 6.6 grains gets me to around 850fps from a 5" 1911. No unburnt powder and consistent performance. 7 grains would get me to over 900fps and +P, but I've never tried it. I also use Silhouette with 147gr coated lead TC's in a "Woodsman" 9mm load. 4.6 grains clocks in at around 950 from a Glock 19. Haven't pushed it to +P either. Any particular primer that you’re using? |
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Photo didn’t turn out as well as I hoped but here is a before and after crimp Attached File Attached File |
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Still some unburnt at 7.6gr charge. Velocity is at 960ish, so I don’t believe I’ll push it any more. Luckily it’s mostly in the case so it shouldn’t lock anything up too soon. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: Photo didn't turn out as well as I hoped but here is a before and after crimp https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/469500/IMG_4442_jpeg-3787566.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/469500/IMG_4443_jpeg-3787567.JPG |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: Still some unburnt at 7.6gr charge. Velocity is at 960ish, so I don't believe I'll push it any more. Luckily it's mostly in the case so it shouldn't lock anything up too soon. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/469500/IMG_4448_jpeg-3788372.JPG That's not what I would call clean burning, but nothing to worry about. You want a clean burning powder try Zip or True Blue. Both very clean burning in 9mm. |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: Still some unburnt at 7.6gr charge. Velocity is at 960ish, so I don’t believe I’ll push it any more. Luckily it’s mostly in the case so it shouldn’t lock anything up too soon. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/469500/IMG_4448_jpeg-3788372.JPG Ehh, I only see a couple speckles in there. It looks like silhouette is behaving, giving about 10fps per .1gr. Another .4gr and you'll be at or real close to 1000fps. Brian Pearce says buffalo bore 45 suto rim +p 255gr clocks 1005fps from his 1955 target model with 6 1/2' barrel. We'll just drift a bit here. An old magazine article with Elmer Keith describing some of the loads he used.  I'm still looking for the rest of it, it's on my phone, somewhere. He describes using the 454424 bullet with 14gr of 2400 Here's a picture of one sitting next to a lee 255gr bullet, if the lee is seated to the crimp groove it seats about the same inside the case as your rimrock 255swc. The 454424 would be around .3" inside the case.  I use this one, and it puts even less in the case than the 454424.  Here's one at 1.255 oal in 45 acp brass next to a 10mm loaded with a arsenal 403-200 wfn  I did 13gr of 2400, it had a wide velocity spread.  Anyway, Keith says 14gr or 14.5, 14gr goes 1220fps from a g21 with 6" barrel, and that'd be around 1190fps from the 4 5/8" blackhawk. He fired those from his 1955 target model. I'm not saying to load up Keith level loads, just saying. |
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Another advantage to the revolver, is bullet choice and OAL. Here's an example.  That's from midway loadmap for 45 acp. Nobody is loading those to that length for use in an auto loader, they probably won't fit the magazine of 1911 or feed and also the barrel would need a long throat.  900+fps from a 5" barrel at standard pressure. The speer 250lswc is .678" long and at 1.275 it's .292 inside a .889" long case. Here's a bullet I believe you can get from Matt's bullets if you don't cast, you can also get the 454424 there.  .3" inside the case. |
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Originally Posted By sandspider500: Ehh, I only see a couple speckles in there. It looks like silhouette is behaving, giving about 10fps per .1gr. Another .4gr and you'll be at or real close to 1000fps. Brian Pearce says buffalo bore 45 suto rim +p 255gr clocks 1005fps from his 1955 target model with 6 1/2' barrel. We'll just drift a bit here. An old magazine article with Elmer Keith describing some of the loads he used. https://i.imgflip.com/avqwsj.jpg I'm still looking for the rest of it, it's on my phone, somewhere. He describes using the 454424 bullet with 14gr of 2400 Here's a picture of one sitting next to a lee 255gr bullet, if the lee is seated to the crimp groove it seats about the same inside the case as your rimrock 255swc. The 454424 would be around .3" inside the case. https://i.imgflip.com/avr43g.jpg I use this one, and it puts even less in the case than the 454424. https://i.imgflip.com/avr8pk.jpg Here's one at 1.255 oal in 45 acp brass next to a 10mm loaded with a arsenal 403-200 wfn https://i.imgflip.com/aqma2o.jpg I did 13gr of 2400, it had a wide velocity spread. https://i.imgflip.com/avr9as.jpg Anyway, Keith says 14gr or 14.5, 14gr goes 1220fps from a g21 with 6" barrel, and that'd be around 1190fps from the 4 5/8" blackhawk. He fired those from his 1955 target model. I'm not saying to load up Keith level loads, just saying. Thank you for all the info. It’s unfortunate that I don’t really have the time to invest in casting because I do have a Lee pot and some lead stashed, and it would really help to optimize this cartridge. Maybe some day when my kids are a bit older. Hey, 2400 might be available by that time. I’ll probably grab some of Matt’s bullets later this year after I shoot through the rim rocks. |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: If anyone was curious the redding crimp die and the lee standard crimp die do not apply enough crimp to keep a 200gr XTP bullet in place. My load was pushing those 200xtp at 1200 fps. It's easy to tell with a Lee FCD (factory crimp die). You look straight down at the die and you see 4 slots in the crimping collet. Adjust FCD until the gap between the collets has been reduce by half with a bullet being crimped. This has been all the crimp I ever needed with a smooth side home cast powder coated 200 gr bullet With max charges of A-9 in 10mm. |
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Originally Posted By ARK_Ginger: If anyone was curious the redding crimp die and the lee standard crimp die do not apply enough crimp to keep a 200gr XTP bullet in place. My load was pushing those 200xtp at 1200 fps. I've experienced similar in my ruger blackhawk, shooting long loaded lighter bullets, although I can only use a taper crimp as it still headspaces on the case mouth using 45 acp cases. It just acts like an inertia bullet puller. You're probably gonna have to get a different bullet with a crimp groove if loading em up stout. As for a Lee factory crimp die for pistol, it doesn't use a collet, it uses sleeve inside that is adjustable with the top adjusting screw. There's also lee factory crimp dies for rifles, and this is what confuses people, it uses a collet. Then there's a lee collet crimp die for some handgun cartridges, but that's only made for revolver cartridges, auto rim not being one of them, and a lone auto loading cartridge .357 sig. Lee does not make a collet crimp die for 10mm. I have a 45 colt collet crimp die that I slightly modified, it works well. |
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Has anyone ever tested the accuracy at distance with a large SWC like these rim rocks? I’m not a group shooter with a pistol just yet, but bagged I can keep them in the black on a B8 at 25. At 50 I can decently hit a 10” steel plate, but at 100 they’re not consistently grouping. Switching to a factory load is much more consistent. I’m not sure if I need to back off this load some or just choose a different powder entirely like you would rifle loading. |
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