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Originally Posted By urbankaos04: Hoping to get into reloading soon. Sadly, this is one of the worst periods in history for getting started in hand-loading.  ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
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Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman: Are there any good iPhone apps that measure mean radius? Ballistic X is supposed to be able to measure mean radius, but you have to be a "subscribed user," which I am not. ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Sebspeed: I use a free app called Range Buddy that gives mean radius I see that there is now a Range Buddy Pro version. I might just try it. ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
The graphic below shows a 20-shot composite group that was fired in a round-robin sequence on four different targets using four different powder charges. These four different powder charges were from a longer string of powder charges tested using my ANDT. The rounds were fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards. A single shot from each of the four different powder charges of 23.2, 23.4, 23.6 and 23.8 grains was fired in a round-robin sequence on four different targets forming 4 separate groups of 5 shots each. Those groups were over-layed on the aiming point using the OnTarget software program. The extreme spread for the entire 20-shot composite group was 0.71 MOA with a mean radius of 0.23”. A single 10-shot group fired from the semi-automatic AR-15 using the median accuracy node powder charge of 23.5 grains, which gives the load a "breathing space" of 0.6 grains (plus or minus 0.3 grains) had an extreme spread of 0.467 MOA. The mean radius for that group was 0.17”.  ....... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By bbqncigars: You forgot to mention your slide rule.  Originally Posted By bbqncigars: Originally Posted By Molon: Indeed! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/tealc_new047-1905891.gif And to think that decades ago I did this stuff with a pencil and a ruler.  .. You forgot to mention your slide rule. LOL. ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By LavaDomane: Back in my service rifle days, the team would just give us ammo (usually 24.1 grains of R15 over a SMK 77) and you just shot it. I'm sure it was "good enough" for all occasions and outshot us most of the time. I've had more time reloading my own to tinker with this stuff and have seen some wildly inconsistent things shoot really well too. I'm wondering how much ANY of this matters in an AR platform beyond just getting it to print about an inch at 100 and going with it. I used 20.7 grains of H4198 with 52 grain Sierra Match Kings for years as a short range load. The ES and SD were ridiculous, but it would simply stack rounds on top of one another. Short range does not seem matter that much when it comes to velocity consistency. Having better numbers is always better, provided the target proves the point. Anyone who hasn't tried VihtaVuori N133 is missing the boat. N140 and N150 are just as good. I am not a fan of their 500 series powders, but their single base powders are as good as it gets. I throw charges, I don't weigh them individually. H4198 is a course, long grain powder that does not play well with others. It looks like a lead pencil that has been cut into pieces. For light bullets, H322, H4198 and VihtaVuori N133 have always been top performers in .223. N133 being the best of all three. Money isn't everything, I gladly pay for N133 when it is available, it's worth every cent. |
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Dang fine read Molon! Really enjoyed that. You should publish that in a pamphlet or booklet form. In the meantime, hope you don't mind if I print-it-out and put it to practical use out on my range in my notes binder? |
What you think about you do ... What you do, you become.
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Originally Posted By scrooster: hope you don't mind if I print-it-out and put it to practical use out on my range in my notes binder? By all means do so. ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon: By all means do so. ... Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By scrooster: hope you don't mind if I print-it-out and put it to practical use out on my range in my notes binder? By all means do so. ... I'm stealing this as well. Any tips for shooting off a bench? Places to read on form or technique? |
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Originally Posted By Strikefirst: Any tips for shooting off a bench? Places to read on form or technique? One of the best pieces of advice I can give for learning to shoot a precision AR-15 well is to spend a lot of time dry-firing off the bench at a target that's 100 yards away using a high-magnification scope. ... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Another example . . . The Nosler 64 grain BSB is actually quite an accurate bullet for a bonded solid base projectile. The graphic below shows the result of testing using my Accuracy Node Detection Technique. Two consecutive 5-shot groups of the Nosler 64 grain BSB were over-layed from the aiming point to form a 10-shot composite group. The two groups were charged with different powder charges that were 0.5 grain apart. The 10-shot composite group has an extreme spread of 0.922".     .... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Accuracy Node Detection Technique: Speer 62 Grain Dold Dot Here is an example of another variation on my Accuracy Node Detection Technique. When starting from scratch with a new combination of bullet and powder, I’ll sometimes “scan” the entire range of powder charges, from the starting charge to the maximum charge, in 0.5 grain increments. For this particular example, I was testing the Speer 62 grain Gold Dot, which is one of my preferred bonded soft-point bullets. The terminal ballistic properties of the 62 grain Gold Dot approaches that of the 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and as you’ll see shortly, the 62 grain Gold Dot is considerably more accurate/precise than the TBBC; it is actually the most accurate/precise bonded soft-point bullet that I’ve tested. Again, for this particular example, the powder charges were loaded in increments of 0.5 grains. Five rounds of each powder charge were fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards. The five shot groups were then over-layed consecutively to form 10-shot composite groups. (Remember that with the ANDT, the groups must be over-layed from the aiming point, not the center of the groups.) The smallest 10-shot composite group had a mean radius of 0.238” and an extreme spread of 0.699”. Remember that this a bonded soft-point duty/defense bullet, not a match-grade hollow point bullet.  A couple of weeks after the Accuracy Node Detection test was conducted, I “proofed” the powder charge that was midway between the two different charges that produced the smallest 10-shot composite group during the previous testing. Thirty rounds of the midpoint powder charge were fired from the same AR-15 in three consecutive 10-shot groups. Those three groups had the following extreme spreads: 0.662” 0.655” 0.581” for an average extreme spread of 0.622”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.215”. The smallest 10-shot group . . .  The 30-shot composite group . . .  ….. |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By billclo: I decided to try out this technique, and discovered that RSI Shooting Lab is no longer distributed, aside from some shareware type website. Even though my Norton software says the site is safe, I am kind of leery of it. Try using On Target TDS. .... |
All that is necessary for Trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
In God We Trust. Everyone else must post data.
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Originally Posted By Molon: Try using On Target TDS. .... Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By billclo: I decided to try out this technique, and discovered that RSI Shooting Lab is no longer distributed, aside from some shareware type website. Even though my Norton software says the site is safe, I am kind of leery of it. Try using On Target TDS. .... I will, thanks. Are there any instructions for using the program - I didn't see anything listed separately, no tutorials, etc. I don't mind the cost of the program, but not having any instructions would be a turnoff.  |
Brevity Is For People Who Don't Reload
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SubMOA app on iPhone does a similar group size calculation and also does mean radius. I'm trying to massage the system to get a group compilation similar to Molon's. I've been using SubMOA since 08/2020 and have recorded 859 rounds in 169 groups with my 18" KAC LPR Mod 2. It's really fun to go back and look at actual data. Thanks for all of this Molon, I'm currently putting together an 18" Noveske barreled upper and I've been looking at ALL of your posts on arfcom and snipershide. |
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He didn't tolerate trolls very well and would go on a bender. Mods squeezed him about how he responded. I think he got tired of it and split. Which is our great loss, for I learned most of the technical knowledge and skills I have from his posts and threads, back when this was more a technical gun enthusiast board than just social media.  |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
Brevity Is For People Who Don't Reload
Joined:
Nov 2012
Posts:
1793
EE: 100% (39)
TX, USA
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