Think I'm done tinkering on this.

4 day turnaround on the Form1.

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Yes, I have the Gen 2 Lingle with that bolt catch and I find it far superior to the OEM.
My only complaint is I’d love if the components were aluminum instead of polymer. But it does work fine, and again, better than OEM IMO.

Let's take the Stribog out and zero check.



(Bipod cracks me up)
Will post targets later.  Fun day pinging steel at 200 after

Some performance data, relates to some prior posts.

Here is zero at 25 yards.  With this ammo.






All was shoulder fired at 25 yards.  With the exception of the bottom one, which was held with 2 hands with no shoulder contact.  Of note, some of my prior statements about POI shift based on shoulder contact appear to be in error, and essentially irrelevant from this test.

Also, POI of all the ammo at 25 was about the same - ish.

Here are impacts at 50, 100, and 200 yards

Of note the week cheap fmj seems almost the same at 25 and 50, while the 100 yard shows the hotter ammo hits almost the same at 100 as at 25 (ish)

NOTE, group size MOA calculation is in error on this one (I accidentally left 25 yard in the calculator for that for this 50 yard group), so group size is half that noted in this photo.

Left target are the hot 115gr hollow point, right is the mild 115gr FMJ.

100yards

Top grouping is the 115gr weak FMJ, bottom is the hot 115 gr HP.  note how much of a difference to POI 150 FPS MV makes in 9mm at just 100 yards.


And 200 yards with the mild low-quality FMJ reloads.  Dropping fast once you get to 200 yards, but it's still decent enough that a 12" gong will get hit.  My gong hit ratio was closer to about 70% (this target implies it would be 40% - so I guess I shanked a shot in the group.).

So update on SP9A3 accuracy... after I swapped my KDG buffer for the HBI buffer and swapped my 40 degree block with wiggle for the original US block with no shaft wiggle, I took my Stribog to the range for testing groups at 25y with a friend. His is serial number is 10XXX and mine is serial number 4XXX. He has a hollow roller pin and I have a solid one.

I shot against my buddies Stribog which has much tighter tolerances in the bolt channel (~ 0.003" vs ~0.015" clearance) and does not have an extractor that sits proud of the bolt face (~.001" or less vs ~.003" for mine) so he has a continuous wear mark on the back of his barrel, instead of no contact from the extractor to about 5:30 which I am showing. However, he ran his 40 degree block which also has some jiggle and slop in the shaft like mine does and he ran his KDG buffer. We both shot with bipods and rear bags from a bench with Sig red dots.

Results? His gun shot 1.0-2.6" spread 5 shot groups at 25 yards, averaging 1.9" for 5 shots. Mine shot consistently under 1" for 5 shot groups, averaging 0.896" at 25 yards. Ammo was UMC 147 FMJ and Federal 147 American Eagle flat nose. I actually never had a group over 1" at 25 yards.

This means my ILWT barrel, HBI buffer, and non loose US roller block vastly improved my groups. However, his Stribog had so much less recoil, we both agreed that for real world shooting, his would shoot smaller groups at very high speed vs. mine. I now wonder if there is a way to take the slop out of the 40 degree block shaft, as that seemed to have one of the largest impacts on accuracy out of everything so far. But even my bolt not sitting flush in battery from the proud extractor and receiver slop did not keep me from achieving a 3.42 MOA group average.

We even swapped guns and ammo at the end of the day and I shot his 2" for 5 and he shot mine about 1.5" for 5 with 4 of the shots going into just under 1" and then a small flyer. We both agreed the glass of my Romeo5 causes eyestrain and early onset eye fatigue compared to his Romeo MSR, but my dot was a little smaller.

Next test will be shooting the US no slop roller block in his rifle to see what improvements to accuracy we can achieve, but he could not find his original US block to try. Also, we both shot suppressed with 3 lug mounts so unsuppressed shooting will be part of future tests.

Based on these results, it would appear something got much better with your Stribog compared to the previous page.

Only difference was swapping back to the US roller block which is rigid vs. a previous attempt that got me 1.5" to 2.5" at 25y with 40 degree roller block.

Can anyone with a 40 degree block from Europe check to see if their shaft has any movement?

Just wondering if that is normal or not.

?   your shaft wiggles around in the block?  Nnnno, mine does not do that.

I think we may have found your problem.  I can see that causing irregular things to happen varying shot-to-shot.

Yes, both mine and my friend's 40 degree charging blocks from ipscstore.com have a small amount of both rotational play and play in and out if you grab the shaft where the roller rod sits and try to pull it out and push it in. The in/out play is barely noticable, but the rotational play is a couple degrees in either direction on both of our40 degree blocks. In contrast, my original US block (which I assume is 45 degree) is as solid as if it were made from a single piece of metal.

My buddy remembered his Stribog being more accurate (like ~1" at 25 yards vs ~2" at 25 yards) prior to installing the 40 degree block. Since both of our 40 degree blocks have the same amount of shaft play I wondered if that was just normal for 40 degree blocks and wanted to poll the hive...

No, not normal. I have both 40 and 45 "lockers", including an early one ordered from Estonia, and they are both the same with zero movement from shaft to block.

Just pulled mine out to test.  I've never noticed anything, but based on this, I did grab and specifically try to yank and pull it.  There might  be some due to the tolerance of the  two pins to the shaft cutouts maybe, but we're talking like 1/1000 if that, if there is any at all.  Interesting, I wonder if this is a wear item that loosens with time.  I'll watch it.   Right now, it seems fine and my perforamcne is good, so I'm not worried, but I'll make it routine to test it every few thousand rounds or so.   I tried to see if I could drive out the two pins, and the answer was not easily with just a small allan wrench whacked down the hole mildly, but I stopped there.

So I found 2 Stribogs at my local Sportsmen Warehouse. An A1 for $800 and the A3 for about $1K.

Is there any reason why I should not buy either of these, and swap the lower for a scorpion version?

With armbrace?  If so, the A3 is the one to grab (MHO).  If you want a scorpion lower, get a Scorpion lower.  Though the venerated Scorpions absolutely do jam as well - I've shot ones that jammed due to magazine feed issues.  get an A3 with a >4000 SN and curved mags, and frankly there is little reason to screw around with Scorpion lowers.

Im actually wanting the scorpion lower because I have scorpion mags already (said Scorpion was decent, but not enough to keep.)

Mine with Lingle lower doesn’t jam on anything using AKV mags. I’ve shot every weight of FMJ available through it. It has also been fine with Gold Dots and Critical Defense. The OEM mags absolutely will not run defense ammo nearly as reliably.
I did polish the shit out of the feed ramp when the barrel was out to get cut. Dunno if that made any difference.

Got a shorty A3 a few weeks ago.  I've put about 500 rounds through it, mostly with the 20 round stick mags (found them for $9 each).  It's been running amazingly.  I had one empty case get stuck in the ejection port in one of the first few mags but since has been perfect.
Running cheap aluminum 115 Blazer and 147 Remington subs.  This has been my favorite gun I've bought in years!
I designed and printed up a spare mag holder for the folding brace.  locks into the M-Lock slots and after 5 tries found a great geometry that retains well but is easy to pull out and insert.  Pretty natural location for a reload too!
It's PETG but has held up really well for a few range trips and 30 extractions or so.

I'm kind of the same mind. Anybody have experience with A3 Tactical's Stribog lower for Scorpion mags? I'll pickup my SPA3 next week when I get home and should have my A3 Tactical goodies as well...

ROCK6

That's the lower I have(picture at the top of this page). It works very well. My only complaint about it over the other lower on the market is that the A3 retained the Stribog BHO design.

My A3 lower loves Magpul mags with no modifications needed.

Thanks! I have no reference to judge the BHO yet, but most of my Scorpion mags are from PSA. I do have a half dozen or so Magpuls, so I can experiment...

ROCK6

I thought I read somewhere that certain rear end caps cause issues with the bolt.

I can't find it now. Am I misremembering?

Stribog!


21 yr old French girl was with us too, who wanted some Glam-shots (and said cool to post)



This gun was the high favorite of everybody there - just a total blast.


(Best at full screen high rez with sound; and yes Rumble sucks - they all suck)
That's a 200 yard gong from the camera - kind of impressed. Go go 40's+ mom who rarely ever shoots.

And a gong banger at 200 yards with the red dot is always a crowd-pleaser.

A lot of people don't like the factory stock.  They would be wrong. It's not sexy, but it's very light wight and efficient - and snaps onto the reciever cut to lock closed.  I think its great.  It's also really cost-effective.   Obviously SBR'd

Here is mine. Sorry for the mess of my reloading bench...

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A beauty!

Alright...who has a video or instructions to install a Timney trigger into the Stribog (A3 Tactical) receiver? There's a small block and a separate space piece, just no instructions for those.

Never mind, I'm a dumbass...building begins

ROCK6

I have a gen 2 aluminum. I wish it were lighter lol.

Whelp, did it. Bought an A3. Now to start putting more money into it, first is a scorpion lower and hardguard extension.

I actually love the added weight. The light polymer just feels cheap (although it’s a perfectly suitable material for its purpose here).

These things are just plain awesome.
I have about 600 rounds through my SP9A3 now.
100% suppressed and with 20rd stick mags.

It just plain shoots!  I had it out at the 100 yard range shooting 4" steels with a 1x optic and making about 50% hits.

I have not had a more fun gun in the 30 years I've been shooting them.  I'm so glad I finally committed to a Stribog!

It's true.  Of all my guns - my P90/22 and Stribog roller delayed are by far my favorite to run now.

Are there some guidelines on wear items and replacement rates?

In particular, how many rounds is the HB Ind. Buffer good for?

An MP5 BBL is said somewhere, by some guy, to go at least 100k rounds, so I assume about the same there (?)

How about recoil spring?

Extractor and it's springs?

Roller?  As to solid/hollow - I assume the hollow is to be more "springy", and allow compression there... I guess?  I can't imagine there is any actual cost savings.

I suspect if the roller block is loose (it's 2 pieces held with 2 pins), I suspect that can hurt accuracy - so any guidance on if it grows loose with age and replacement rate?
Anything else?

Had a chance to do some neat comparison testing with a friend's this weekend.

Stribog SP9A3 (mine, with 40 degree roller and HBI buffer), but otherwise mostly bare.
Stribog SP9A3 with an aftermarket lower that takes Scorp mags, but otherwise factory US marked roller lock.
B&T APC9

Some surprises:
1)  The two Stribogs recoil felt pretty much the same.  I was expecting his to be a lot more jumpy with the US 45 degree block.  He did have a much more exaggerated muzzle break than I do, but I seriously doubt there's much benefit from that.  I could have sworn I felt a notable recoil change in my own gun, when I upped it from 45 degree to instead the 40 degree block.  But I didn't feel that today comparing our two.  Not sure what to say.  We were running our own ammo in each, but my ammo isn't super-duper hot, so unless his was super-duper weak, I wouldn't think that is it.  Donno.

2) I like the Stribog better than the B&T.  By quiet a lot.  The B&T was a heavier had more recoil behavior.  In particular, we had 25 yard targets and steel, so I'd do a mag-dump routine where I'd engage the steel, run forward and engage paper moving afoot, and finish back on steel at 10 yards.  I found the Stribog just more pleasant to run with and easier to engage targets and stay on target under recoil, than the B&T.

I thought the wildly more expensive B&T would do better in that comparison.

Roller delay system is going to beat a dumb hydraulic buffer every time.
It always blows my mind that people will pay B&T money for what’s just an average PCC.

Because it's a B&T?

For the record, I use to have a first Gen GHM9 and now have a newer GHM9 Compact (couldn't pass up the price and I had a dozen mags already). I recently added a SPA3, went with the Scorpion lower and couldn't be more impressed. I haven't even added my HBI buffer yet, but it's a smooth shooter. I've been telling those interested in this type of PCC/pistol to consider the Stribog. There are enough aftermarket options now to really make it a competitive option.



ROCK6

EDIT: I was wrong..The stribog IS roller delay. The pin rolls for a short time then locks up.  Works well for what it is as long as you it cant lock up to soon or if you short stroke it to reduce the lock up/drag. A little less recoil than a B&T for sure but from running both I would not say its drastically less.  Worked much better with a 40* locker but was damaging the rails so they had to change it.  In my SP9a3 S converted I actually ran the delayed blowback system with a B&T hydraulic buffer. This combination literally makes it the softest shooting Stribog out there. I had to re tune the buffer and re spring it to function right in the Stribog but it worked very well. 10k rounds later it started leaking so I removed it and put my trusty old proven 3 stage damper back in.

Guess you know better than the entirety of the internet that refers to the system, as delayed roller or roller delayed (including the people who, you know, actually manufacture the gun)...but hey whatever.

I have the 40 degree roller in mine it's significantly softer shooting than any B&T I've ever shot.

I was wrong

This is as painful as the "AR15 DI is really a piston" posts.  I've actually studied a marking on the roller that you can see through the cut-out.  You know what it does when I slowly cycle the action and there's a mark on the top of the roller?  It rolls.  You know what that rolling action does when you fire the gun.  It delays the opening action of the gun.  By rolling.  By roller-delaying.  The fact that the roller is on a piece of the bolt carrier device, farther away from the bolt than it is on an MP5 bolt carrier, doesn't make it not be a roller delay action anymore.  It's a next-generational technology improvement by being simpler and more clever than the MP5, because it also more directly engages the recoil spring in a more clever manner, than the MP5 does.
Love your MP5 roller delay, but saying the Stribog roller delay somehow isn't a roller delay - doesn't work.

Why double down on being so wrong about so many things?

You know what its been awhile since I even touched the stribog so I should have re checked that. I was definitely wrong. Its 100% a roller lock.  The main issue I remember having was roller slide. It would roll for about an 1", then grab and slide which peened up my rails. I was 100% wrong guys.  Sorry about that!

Alright,
I was thinking about starting a separate thread, but since it's "Stribog-centric" I thought I'd post it here.  I really want a PCC, but blowback seems stupid.  SO the Stribog fits the bill and the wallet.  Now, I'd like to SBR it, BUT my state is retarded and even SBRs have to be at least 29".  I'd really like to not brace it or pin/weld anything.  Are there any stocks that will get it to 29"?

I just measured my SBR with a B&T stock (has the shorter ILWT barrel) thinking the B&T side folder would have a smidge extra LOP.  Not even close to 29" overall.

If you had a zenitco stock and used it on an SP9a3 it would get you there but are not cheap or easy to come by anymore.

I have an HK ump folding stock on my SP9A1, and it makes it 25" total length.

(This one)

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Any thoughts on the Glock Mag Stribog? Is it reliable / reliable with JHP, and does it need any modifications?

SP9A3G needs an HBI buffer and Glock factory mags.

Also, my state is 11/10 on the retard scale.  Even an SBR can't have a folding stock if I have a pistol grip/threaded barrel.  No more than 2 "features".  BUT a retracting stock is ok.  I emailed A3 about getting their telescoping stock but with longer steel rods that would get it to 29".  As I expected, no joy.  Now, I know jack shit about metal fabrication, but would it be difficult or too expensive to get a shop to fabricate rods that would be long enough?

So, ETS glock mags have issues?

Nice.

Is it recommended to get the one with the pic rail back, or the one that comes with the folding brace?

You can perminantly attach a pad to the back of the buttplate.  And you can pin and weld a muzzle device.

Or maybe this just isn't the gun for all that.  Donno - sorry you live in a state where the elected representation and court system upheld a non-impactful gun law with the impact of being able to claim 0.000000 lives saved/100,000


If there is ever a Constitutional Convention - I'm adding a US amendment that each law must demonstrably be proven to have saved lives, etc- or are automatically void as violation of the constitution and declaration of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happyness.  Funding of assessment to be provided by seizure of all ACLU and Soros assets.

Gonna try out my 10mm tomorrow. Two tax stamp. Will be running my SiCo Hybrid 46m w/ tri-lug setup:

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