Hi guys,

I am wavering on selling out my NFA and ammo fort.  Nah I'm not suddenly voting Biden and joining the Brady bunch.  I am just no longer interested in packing up a bunch of guns and ammo and driving to a range to shoot.  And I am past the age of being a participant  in any potential revolutions.  Heck, with my fake joints and age I couldn't march 10 miles in a day unless there was a massage and a spa at the end of it  

The quandary is I kinda like having them and I got everything exactly how I wanted it.  But I got a lot of my free money tied up in something I'll probably never use again.  I could buy a Ferrari or several really high end guitars with that dough.  

And I confess as an investment I'm not feeling it any longer.  It is no longer risk free IMO because if anyone ever gets the SCOTUS to hear a case the limitation on machine-guns could be stricken.  IMO since a full auto M4 is what our guys are issued we should be able to buy a new one without a 6 month wait or limited to registered units.  Plus how high can they really go?  It is supply and demand and how many people can afford $30K for an AR15 that goes brrrrt?

I dunno.  I know the suppressors are almost worthless and probably keep them but the MGs would be a fast sale and bring in a lot of cash.  And without them I don't need an ammo fort and that would sell fast next time the loonies make it harder or more expensive to buy ammo.

Share opinions.  None are right or wrong just thinking our loud here.

L Attached File

If you have no more interest in them, sell the full auto stuff.  Fun to shoot, but really wasteful of ammo.

Hang on to one AR, and buy a good duplex trigger pack.  Almost the same rate of fire, no ATF issues.

Keep a few handguns and a decent amount of ammo.

Enjoy the cash.

As I'm getting older the machine guns don't have the appeal they did years ago.  The prices are ridiculous now considering most of the transferables really don't have a high rate of sustained fire and the cost to feed one of those isn't cheap.  I sold one recently for $50k.  I have no regrets!

Keep 2 AR's and 2 pistols

Ditch the auto's and use the money to fly to Dublin, rent a car, drive all the way around Ireland or something you've never done before.

Sad state of affairs, but I’m kinda in the same boat. Getting ready to retire and don’t want to move a ton of guns into a smaller place. I like to shoot, but it’s not as fun going by myself every time. I’ll give away some to my kids, but really don’t “need” 7 AR’s or a bunch of Glocks that all do the same thing.

Did the same years ago when i stopped doing the MG shoots. It just was a waist setting in the safe especially beltfed, too much work setting up.
I did keep my first because my daughter always said that's hers lol.
It's a mac10 with all the lage accessories so pretty much any caliber Pistol to rifle.  
I know the kids liked getting them out but I don't want to burden them the hassle of transferring  when I'm gone

Don't blame you for wanting to sell. Im sure there will be folks that come along and say thinks like "never sell always buy" but I believe there are far better things to spend money and time on than more guns and ammo, especially as we age. At a certain point, a large armory can feel like a boat anchor wrapped around your legs due to legal issues and complexity for the next generation to deal with. Hopefully you won't have to pay too much taxes on that MG when you sale, im sure you already got a good CPA to talk to about that stuff with. I believe it was Musashi who said "do not collect weapons or practice with them beyond what is useful". Good on you for realizing your limits.

So I have a question for some of the posters above who say they are getting too old or losing interest as they age:

Do you have kids, and if so, are the kids not interested in your MGs?

I ask in part because I have young kids, and one of the reasons I got into machine guns is so that they would at least have a reasonable opportunity to own one if they wanted. I think by the time they are old enough to buy one, MGs will be way too expensive to afford. They are too young to shoot them, but I am hoping they will grow up shooting and enjoying MGs with me. Maybe it is naive, but I hope they will be passed down so long as it is legal to own them.

I bought mine with the intention of selling them in the future.  They’re a minuscule portion of my investment portfolio that will probably amount to beer money when I cash them out.  

I’m not worried about preservation, as they get used regularly when going out with friends and family.  They shoot them more than I do and I can tell they feel some guilt when I keep handing them magazines.  I assure them that I can, and do, shoot them whenever I feel like it.

They were made to be shot, I keep a ton of spares and I use and maintain them like I do everything else I own that’s mechanical.  When they do get sold, the proceeds will be play money for whatever toys or pastimes I’m interested in then.

If you’re asking or considering it, you’re ready to do it.

I was coming to post this.

If you don't use them anymore, no reason to have them imo. If you can put the money to other uses or don't want to deal with them then they can go.

After the first couple trips and just blowing through ammo, its just eh.

Enjoy life dude, sell what you don't use and buy something you will.

His issue is not financial:

I am just no longer interested in packing up a bunch of guns and ammo and driving to a range to shoot

My son enjoyed full auto for about four magazines.  Then he looked at me and said "that's it?"

He couldn't care less about NFA stuff and doesn't want the hassle.  

He has his own guns and ammo.  I still have enough ammunition to equip a small third world army, and weapons to shoot it in.  If there comes a time that he should need it, it's there for him.

Way I see it, it costs nothing to keep, and it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

If you are OK with it, let that be their decision.  One of your kids might be the ones to post here years down the road "My Dad sold the gun I always wanted, what was he thinking?!"

OK I think it's clear many agree with my sentiments.  And I have no kids and all my relatives of inheratance age won't want guns

And of course I'll keep SOME guns.  I will die with at least a shotgun, magazine fed semiauto rifle, 10/22 and some handguns.  

I'm not a tax accountant or tax attorney, but I do believe that the sale of a machine gun (or guns) at a profit will likely generate a capital gains tax that you will have to pay.  Whereas an estate transfer will reset the tax basis for the heir(s) who inherit said machine gun(s).

I will add that I have bought and later sold a few machine guns, and in each instance I have paid the income tax on the capital gains received.  I also believe that government scrutiny of any large dollar transactions has increased, not decreased.

Best of luck with whatever you pursue.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

You are correct that you will owe capital gains on the sale of a machinegun.   Based off my conversations to date with our estate attorney and my CPA, transferable machineguns most likely won't qualify for regular capital gains tax treatment either as the IRS would consider them to be "collectibles" at this point which have even higher "collectibles" capital gains tax implications similar to Art, Coins, Baseball Cards, etc.  The ammo would probably qualify for regular capital gains rates but this would probably be a conversation for you and your CPA.

That said as somebody who is currently dealing with my in-laws exceedingly complicated estate.....and whom appear to have done everything in life to not pay taxes (even to their own detriment), don't think you are doing your heirs any favor leaving them a mess of assets to clean up because you think you are doing them a favor by saving paying taxes today.

If you no longer find enjoyment in the guns and ammo, sell them, pay taxes, enjoy using the money to do something else (Ferrari, Guitar, etc.).  Then leave whatever money is left to your heirs that is easily split up vs. leaving a pile of complicated to sell and split up guns to your heirs.

I believe that is an overly simplified generalization.  For example, the Kel-Tec PF-9, 9mm pistol (MSRP ~$350) that was used to shoot Trayvon Martin sold for $250,000.  In other words, there are SOME collectible pistols.  Likewise, there are SOME collectible machine guns, but of the approximately 180,000 transferrable machine guns, most are not.  It's a determination that should be done on a case by case basis, as I believe is likely done for art, coins, and baseball cards.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Who pays taxes?  
Just kidding IRS.  Yikes.  

I have no heirs that want any guns so before I die I will probably reduce what I have to 3-4 I want until I die and let them do what they will.

I wonder if one can list ammunition fired through a MG as a cost basis to ownership reducing ones tax basis?    Hmmm.  Well I'm getting my 2023 tax returns soon and I'll chat with the CPA.

That’s not been my experience at all. I’ve owned fullauto for 22 years and they still make me smile.

I’m torn because when I was married I could take time to go to Knob Creek and other shoots. Now, I’m a single dad every other week to an 11 and 15 year old.

They are too young to shoot at shoots and not like they’re an hour away so don’t make it to shoots much anymore. The one indoor range that allows them near me my kids are too young to shoot them there and the land we used to own went away with the divorce.

I keep them because they’re cool and maybe once the kids are older we will shoot them more? I also want them to have the option of owning one one day and they may not have the financial means I do and who knows what the price will be by then? I bought GI 1911s and WW2 milsurps for the same reason.

They don’t cost me much because I don’t shoot them much.

I get the sentiment though OP, so whatcha got?

Well I'm down to just 2 mgs.  Lot of suppressors which are of no resale value so keeping those and letting whoever gets my shit when I die figure it out.

Got one converted SP1 M16 alike and one sear MP5.  And whenever I think OK i'm selling I don't seem to take the next step.  Hmmm.

If I do sell the MP5 the twist on suppressor has to go with it.  No use for it otherwise.  Or I guess I could get some kind of carbine host for it.

They are just things OP, that frankly noone cares about except you.  I say sell and be happier.

Keep the most utilitarian ones, sell the rest and buy some different toys.

Sell both MG's, buy an M11/9 and a few uppers. Walk away with 50K in cash, and still have a machine gun.

If you are going to thin out, find suitable family and friends and make offers at that price point , then if no interest, put to the open market.

The crystal ball is a bit murky on anything really - SCOTUS could swing one way, but then again, a few judges pass on or retire and it swings the other way.

Do what you want to do and where you might want things to go if you had your way.

Hughes is NEVER being overturned.

+1....I'm at about 25yrs of owning them and still love shooting and tinkering with them

One of the guys at the SMG match has a RDIAS and a couple of Macs he registered himself pre86 and he still enjoys shooting SMG matches.  I think I would be bored too if it weren't for the matches and tinkering with the guns to be smooth and controllable.  
I am on a FFL/SOT and have a transferable Colt 614 and a RDIAS.  I never bought a transferable MP5.  I do have post sample MP5s.  I have always wanted the smoothness of the MP5 with the M16 9mm platform and I finally  have it discussed on my site here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=1733
I also built one for the guy that did a F1 for his pre86 RDIAS.  He ran it yesterday in the match with zero malfunctions.  He was so happy to finally have the same thing I have wanted for 20+ years.  MP5 smoothness in the M16 platform but with a nice cyclic rate in the low 600's pulling singles, doubles and triples at will is so awesome.
My hope was to finally have this setup to surpass the performance of the MP5 and then not have a desire to buy one.  
I was hoping I could have bought something off the shelf to do this but I had to make my own parts to achieve this which was fun to finally succeed.

BTW, one of the competitors runs a Lage equipped m11/9 from a wheelchair

I bought my RDIAS in 1990 and paid $600 for it. Still brings a smile to me and everyone who shoots it.

I don’t think MGs will be legalized anytime soon I don’t care what the second amendment says, or what magic a lawyer thinks they can work in court. The bottom line is soccer moms would riot in the street if MGs are legal. Hell even most gun owners would support a ban on MGs. Sadly I know plenty of freedom loving, fun owning, conservatives that think the ideas of a civilian being able to own a MG is nuts.

Could they be banned? This is slightly more likely, but for all intents and purposes they are basically banned. They must be registered, need gov permission to transfer them, can’t cross state lines, cost shit loads of money so the avg joe has no hope of ever affording them and there is roughly 1 MG for ever 2000+ people in this nation. MG owners are a very small community. Also there is virtually zero crime comminuted with transferable MGs. So unless some MG owner commits a mass shooting with one I honest think the most likely scenario is nothing changes.

As for price? There is no limit. I know wealthy folks with massive MGs collections who also have garages full of Ferraris. A $30k M16 is pocket change to some folks. As time goes more and more MGs seem to be leaving the hands of the avg joe gun enthusiasts, who bought decades ago at more reasonable prices, and they are ending up in the collections of the rich folks who treat the as investments that just happen to be fun to play with.

How long have you felt the desire to sell? I tend to bounce between hobbies and get all in for a few months then get bored and move to another hobby. I have learned not to sell off one hobby to finance another, I almost always regret it as I eventually cycle back around and wish I would have kept everything.

If you do sell I would say start small, maybe sell one of your least favorite MG. Or work on minimizing your collection but selling off guns that use hard to find or expensive ammo types and keep the ones that use common ammo like 9mm or 5.56.  This might also make range trips more fun if they are less effort, you should be able to toss a few boxes of 9mm into a bag with a M11 or similar compact subgun and shoot at any local range. Taking a M1919, M2 50 cal or other crew served weapon is a lot of work and most owners admit they rarely take them out. Those big MGs would be the first I would recommend someone sell.

FWIW I’ve been shooting MGs for over a decade now and still not bored. The more I shoot then the more I want to expand my collection. Maybe I will feel differently in 20 years, only time will tell.

Just exactly what kind of machine guns are we talking about?

The OP mentioned above he is down to just a RR Colt SP1 and an MP5 which is why I posted about my experience in getting my M16 9mm to be as smooth as my MP5 as I like to tinker.  I love to tinker so the M16 family makes the most sense for me as there is so much aftermarket support.  I can alter the recoil impulse on my 9mm M16 and have a cyclic rate in the 400's to 900's if I wanted to.   The MP5 is kind of boring to me as there is only so much you can do with it.  If it were me I would dump the MP5 again since I like to tinker but if I were not a tinkerer, I would dump the one that I least prefer.

I also like to shoot FA 22LR and other than the ultra rare Fleming MP5 .22 kits that I hear never worked not really an option for him.  I know there are the G3 22Kits that work great but ammo capacity is super low and I know Bazooka Brother's made those AM180 drum adapters but I've never seen one in person actually work either.

I mean honestly you have two great machine guns both to own as well as to sell if you choose to go that route.

If I was only going to keep one I would go with the M16 as it gives you lots of flexibility in that you can shoot so many calibers in it in multiple configurations. The kind of snag with it is the the large front pin if you haven’t had it modified?

The MP5 is cool and iconic but kind of a one trick pony. If I was going to part with one that would be it because of how much they get for them and lack of options.

Maybe get them out and shoot them more and perhaps the joy of owning them will return? For me it’s often letting other people shoot them and experience full auto for the first time.

I'm not a tinkerer but respect those who are.  I had a couple more M16s and converted one to 9mm but seriously it was never as smooth as the MP5s.  

I just have no desire to pack up enough stuff to go to the range and drive 45 minutes, drag it all to the line, set out targets, and for what?  And going to a machinegun shoot is not attractive any more.

Look I know it's me.  I am now officially OLD.  I've had medical issues and no energy.  Man I do like knowing those two are there as I got them and the suppressors just right and they both function perfectly.

Think I'll step away from the ledge and keep the money in them.  If I really want another guitar I can afford it. Heck don't even really want another guitar.  Maybe I'm already dead?  Maybe I didn't recover from the septic shock and all this is after life imagination.  

I have a feeling that the guys who were lucky and or old enough to get into them when they were cheaper have a hell of an easier time moving on from them (or even entertaining it). For those who weren’t around to scoop up $500-$3k M11s and $3-9k M16s, it’s a lot tougher because they were relatively tough to acquire.

So I think it has a lot to do with age and how much MG “saturation” someone has. I’m guessing that if I were 70 and had $75k into 15-45 transferables that I had been collecting and shooting for 40 years, they may not mean quite as much to me. Easy come easy go and all that.

But that’s also assuming price is the determining factor. The reality is that some collectors/shooters just don’t care what they’re worth. For others, price drives their decisions.

I generally don't get firearms for just collecting.  If I'm not shooting something, I start thinking about selling or trading it for something I will likely shoot.  I've parted with firearms for this reason even though overall prices have continued to rise.  I've even deliberately chosen to lose money to buyers that I felt would shoot and enjoy them.

The $32K sears was one of my tipping points.  I had several HK hosts with sears that I procured 20+ years ago at reasonable prices.  I tended to take them out and fire one or two mags.  There really wasn't any excitement after a few years.  When the prices started shooting up, I decided to sell most of them and put together my bucket list for the proceeds.

I felt kind of the same way until I started shooting in a local subgun match.

Shooting in the match is a total hoot and it made my MGs my favorite guns again.  

The guys who show up to our match often bring all kind of different subguns and afterwards we sort of share them around.  It's a good time.

I think that the thing that makes people get bored with FA is that they don't really shoot targets with them.   Standing in an indoor range and mag dumping is bound to get boring once the novelty wears off.  

But honing marksmanship skills with an MG is just as fun as breaking clay birds with a shotgun or any other target shooting.

+1.  Shooting at dirt is boring... Even going to MG 'shoots' where you shoot at old cars or whatever is kinda boring to me too.  Shooting on the clock, with controlled bursts accurately is very fun for me.  Unfortunately, if they ever close that activity down, I would get bored too.

I like that advice.  If able try to help those you care about Elbe able to enjoy them too, also gives them something to remember you with.

I read about all kinds of folks that say that suppressors are not worth trying to sell and they’ll just let their estate handle them.  What usually happens then?

I really wish folks that were never going to shoot their suppressors any longer would just let them go for pennies on the dollar instead.  I know you’re not making any money, but if someone is willing to buy several stamps and deal with the wait time, just let them have them for about nothing for doing the work.

I really like my M16, but I always end up shooting my M11 more. The Ammo is cheaper, it has a slower rate of fire, and I can shoot steel target at close range with it. Dueling trees, spinners, popper, silhouettes with the smaller target that flips from side to side. It all Make for good fun and you can challenge yourself or a friend. Just bought a reising, will be fun to see how that performs on steel as well.

You need to check out the work I did to get my 9mm M16 to run smoother than my MP5 and with a tune-able cyclic rate from the high 400's to over 800's if desired but I have mine configured to run in the low 600's which I find to be perfect.
https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=1733

I'll take your word you got it as smooth as an MP5.  I do not doubt it can be done.  

I had a 9mm M16 for a while (Talon Upper).  It worked "OK" but mags were never cheap (had to use Colt or had issues) and people kept telling me it would "egg" the hole in my receiver.  And to be honest I've had 2 MP5s and both, on arrival, were easier to shoot and trigger control was so simple I could let off 2-3 round bursts without much practice.  I converted the M16 back to 223 and sold off the Talon.

In defense of the M16 version a receiver is a lot cheaper than a MP5 these days.

Is that the Gemtech Talon 9mm upper you are talking about? https://smallarmsreview.com/the-gemtech-talon-sd/
I did get a Gemtech Talon 9mm barrel which I still have which is just a 5" barrel that Dater turned from a Douglas blank.

Nothing special by today's standards....just a typical straight blowback 9mm upper that really sucks compared to an MP5.  
Problem is that even today there are no good, reliable delayed blowback 9mm full auto setups for the M16 other than what I built.  Not bragging as I really just wanted to buy something turn key but nothing exists which is why I went through all the work I did to make it happen.  I built several for some friends too and it makes me happy to see others enjoying the setup that we have all waited 20+ years for.

Yup that was what I had.  I'd need to try yours to appreciate it.  Here was my Talon in all its glory?



.

That's not a conversion M16, that's a real-deal M16A1. Good stuff!

I sold that one.  Only kept a SP1 conversion.

I'm waiting for a stamp for a SP1 conversion.  I'm definitely going to get a 22 kit for it.  

I would like to get a 9mm upper as well, but "they" say it beats up your lower.   If there was something really slick out there to buy, I would plunk down the cash for it. 9mm is your friend.   But I have an UZI, so it's not critical.  It would be nice if the M16 9mm upper used UZI mags, I have plenty of them.