Yes and no.  eVent fabric is better than Goretex.  Neither are perfect.  Both are a LITTLE better than before.  You will still need pitzips, those are a must in rain gear - the designs of the garments themselves have gotten better, they vent better if you do your part.  You will still sweat and get damp inside if exerting yourself.  They will still wet out eventually.

However, all of that is better than getting soaked in 40f temperatures.  You still need the stuff.  

I try to avoid wearing the pants unless it's just horrible out - I'll wear thin, quick drying synthetic pants or softshell pants if I can.  Also you can look into rain kilts and what I'm going to try dabbling with, rain chaps in conjunction with a slightly longer cut rain jacket.

In the REAL cold, you will just need to switch over to something like a softshell jacket or when it gets REALLY cold, to something like a gorka suit or canadian style canvas anorak.  At those points you are wanting to vent out the humidity that your body creates via sweat as fast as you can, as it's so cold out you won't be getting wet from the outside.

Must be a problem with the stripped down Chrome browser in GrapheneOS operating system on that phone. No option to scale down photo size after hitting the select image button. I will try and remember to take a tablet for photos.

Yes, 100%, we were better.  In every possible way.  I'm honestly confused how you could think differently.  Anything American soldiers needed was available, half a world away.  American soliders rarely went hungry, rarely struggled to get supplies, and benefited from pretty consistent communication back home.  Rest areas were established and maintained, and spare parts were readily available.  None of our enemies in the last 75 years have come anywhere close to that level of logistical support or as secure supply lines.  Getting a cup of rice from locals or carrying a pack of howitzer rounds down a jungle trail isn't even close to the same, let alone "far beyond".  




Exactly, though I would point out that the US/UN forces were capable of pushing the Chinese back North after about mid 1951, but the decision to hold around roughly the 38th parallel was due to political considerations.  US/UN logistics enabled them to fight a war of attrition, munitions against Chinese flesh, and that ground down the Chinese a whole lot faster than it wore out our logistical trail.  


Again, logistics are important, but they in and of themselves, don't win wars.  

I’m looking at logistics as the support network necessary to survive and win.

Did we get the mostest the furthest the fastest? Yep.

Did we defeat the enemy on the battlefield? Most of the time.

So why didn’t we win?

The support of the local populations. Hearts and minds. The network of folks that can resupply you and keep you active in the filed and hide you when needed. All the gear in the world will fail if you don’t have the support of the local population.

Hearts and Minds doesn't win wars AGAINST insurgencies (though it is vital FOR the insurgency)  -  unless you are willing to stay there for multiple generations and forcibly change their society and culture over that time period.

Look at the history of wars against insurgencies - the few times the occupational government ended up winning, it was either (rarely) the multi-generation (like, 100+ years) occupation.  Or the last Boer war for an example - remove the civilian population from the picture.  Then kill anyone left in the AO.

May current water purification set up

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Disposable water bottle is for dirty water. Based on using it, I need to add a pre filter to it.

Current LBE options

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Oh man the ranger eyes tacked on with dental floss; that brings back the memories!

The funny thing, sorta, is this has to be the first time in recorded history that people have had this long to prepare, and have so many resources to do so.  

On another note.  Leadership gear.  Really not so different.  The Brits have the best kit (again).  Just having a few bits of string, and ribbon, and little bits n bobs to represent objectives, stop groups, support groups, main assault force, etc.  A lot easier than trying to build your terrain model from whatever is at hand (or may not be).  Also you will have your "Aides Memoirs" or cheat sheets, with your troop leading steps, 5 para orders, and all the those fucking annexes!  And if you get that far into it, reports formats, "shackle codes" (or their equivalent these days), and all sorts of other shit, such as max ranges of fire of various weapons you might see in your area, and so forth.  Plus plenty of blank "rite in the rain" pages for op orders and the like.  All this shite is conveniently carried in a "commander's pouch" in case you were wondering.  

Not to mention some sort of system for carrying your map sheets, with overlays for various markings (keeps mapsheets clean), and your protractor/grid square reader, various markers or pens, small LED pen light, and probably a headlight as well.  

So really boils down to how much is on the belt kit vs how much in cargo pockets or in the ruck.  If you have large enough units, where you are basically "directing traffic" and your gun is not really in the fight, you want all this shite more readily available, vs extra mags.  

You can't go wrong with the Ranger manual as a starting point.  Throw out all the stuff that doesn't apply to you and focus on troop leading steps, and the 5 paragraph order.  I can go over that with you if you like once you memorize the basic formats.

I have only ran the Sawyer mini and squeeze.

But if you keep Smart water bottles, the threads are the same.

Water filter magic.
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A simple breakdown for us dudes who haven't been trained in this stuff would probably be a good thing.  At least the bare-bones stuff.  Alot of it is common sense, but it helps to have someone walk you through it real quick.

Maybe do this in a new thread, and I'll edit my original post and put a link to it in there?  So we don't clog this thread up with a discussion and all the questions that might come up.

I need to get some more Smart water bottles, too

So many things to get, so little monies to fund them all

Cnoc bottles and bladders work too.  They seem to be the popular go-to bladders these days, the VectoX ones being less likely to burst compared to the platypus ones that used to be popular.  They make them with both the 28mm bottle top option, and the 42mm bottle top that's the same size as the Nalgene bottles.  Pros and cons to each.

They also have a gravity-fed conversion kit for the sawyer filters.  This would make a good gravity fed system you can basically just buy off the shelf.

https://cnocoutdoors.com/collections/thru-hiking

I could definitely use some education on sleep systems and cold weather gear. I've been trying to figure out what I need, and so I ordered some ECWS level 1 and 2 shirts and pants, a level 3 fleece, some ponchos and a bivy. I already have a woobie. I ended up buying all of this because I've seen several of you recommend the ECWS stuff, and all this was a cheap place to start.

I'd like some input on what is sometimes called "lines of gear" like first line, second line etc. I've got my belt kit now and I'm trying to figure out what I want to carry in it vs. what should go in a larger ruck. Where I've currently landed:

In belt kit: 6x AR mags, Water purification (filter and tabs), 64oz water, fire (multiple options and esbit stove), small personal survival kit (which I think I would move to on my body in a lot of scenarios), range and data cards, binos, multitool, IFAK and boo boo kit.

Originally I started out with more stuff on the belt, but I filled it up and didn't have much room. Where I'm at leaves room for some additional clothing in my buttpack dependent on weather. Am I missing anything really important to have, or carrying anything unnecessary? My thinking being that I could get separated from my larger pack but I'm going to do anything/everything to not get separated from my belt if its my basic survival needs.

Heres some pics since everybody likes pics. This was made by our very on marnsdorff. Its pretty awesome and I need to find some time to get out with it. I need to take some better pictures, and find a way to hang it like it does when actually worn.

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@diz what inserts would you put in a civilian TAMS?
They cant call artillery or mortars or air assets, unless they have a very Highly organized structure they cant call medevac, they don't Need Platoon ammo cards or Key personnel or readiness state cards. Unless they are a very tight knit group they May not even make use of warning orders, patrol reports or radio net sheets.

Do you suggest some individual smart cards for tasks that One May not have learned by Memory and a few blank range cards only?

1.  Interesting points you bring up.  I had thought some basic thoughts like this while flipping through my ranger handbook over the years - 'why would I need this, I don't have access to this'

2.  A stripped down civilian version with important points for civilians who might end up having to do more than simple home defense might be a good idea to come up with, in the same format as the military stuff, in case they need to adapt what they are using with an actual military unit / end up in the military and not have to un-learn something completely different than what they learned as a civilian.

3. I am a STRONG believer in the concept that our founding fathers had, and that is still technically federal law - that all citizens are in the end responsible for defending this country.  And if someone is serious about that, even if not a part of some kind of unit, since the government isn't so hot about that since, oh, circa the 1860's....it's still your responsibility as an individual to understand at least the basics of what these things are, even if you don't know how to actually implement or run one.  You really never know what is going to happen in the world that requires the government to actually call up the civilian population as the militia.  No one thought their would be a WW1 in the beginning of 1914.  The serbs and the bosnians and such were all laughing together on the train to work at the idea of a genocidal war a month before things kicked off.  The afghans never thought that their country would be invaded by foreigners on September 10th, 2001.  Most of them didn't realize it was even a possibility up until our troops walked into their villages.

Hrem.  That looks familiar.  

Put the filter into your pack.  Just keep a half dozen or so waterproof tablets and some kind of particle filter - a bandana or better yet, one of those cold brew coffee mesh bags that weigh nothing, in a ziplock baggy (to keep the tablets dry).  That's for extreme emergencies where you are away from your pack and you need to refill your belt kit's water.  You can keep them in the bottom of one of the nalgene bottle pouches probably.  That's what I do.

Most of your survival stuff goes into your pockets.  I keep a lighter in the buttpack and a few small ditties end up in there, but most goes into your pockets.  If the esbit stove doesn't fit in one of the water bottle pouches, drop it.  I carry a folding titanium emberlit fireant stove.  It folds down flat.  

I'm assuming you're using one of the ammo pouches as a 'command / utility' pouch.  Is that where your range and data cards, multitool and binos are?  And the IFAK in the other spare ammo pouch?  Because so far, with everything you listed, none of the stuff should be in your buttpack besides the spare lighter.

I carry a poncho, a poncho liner, rifle cleaning kit, spare lighter, a pair of socks, a small beanie cap, some emergency food (usually millenium bars), cordage for the poncho to rig it as a shelter, small bottle of foot powder, and a couple other little things, in my buttpack.  There is also a few small 'brew kit' items strewn throughout the water bottle pouches and buttpack.  I have a steel 'kleen canteen' (same size as a nalgene bottle) and a regular nalgene bottle in my water bottle pouches.  Toaks 750ml titanium pot w/ lid around the plastic nalgene bottle.

I also have a padded NVG pouch either attached to one of the nalgene pouches or to the buttpack...or nestled in the buttpack.  I haven't decided where for sure yet on that.  There are a couple spare batteries in there, and a few more in the buttpack.  

Radio in radio pouch.  Fixed blade knife in sheath attached to pouch.  Both attached to the nalgene bottle pouches.  I haven't finalized placement yet.

I also use a MOLLE buttpack as a 'bum roll' on top of the buttpack if I'm not rocking a regular pack.  It has a rain jacket, food, and a few other ditties - sun screen, bug juice, etc.  That is a primary item (the buttpack) that I can grab and go with, worn either on top of the buttpack or you can throw it on as an actuall buttpack, or slung over your shoulder and across your back.  Actually a pretty decent bit of kit to carry important items, especially since you can get them for like $10.  Basically this is my  'it's an emergency and I have to grab something from the pack but I can't take the whole pack' - this is the important stuff I keep in there.

**

Sleep systems are very....personal.  There are a bunch of ways of doing these things, all have pros and cons, some moreso than others.  I'm going to give you the quick down and dirty entry level version.  Use it a few times, then figure out what you need.  Even if using it means camping in the back yard.  (try it one night in the winter too btw, and in the rain, to test your gear.  On nights when you don't need to work the next day in case stuff goes bad)

1.  Get a decent lightweight tarp.  Don't skimp, but it doesn't need to be dummy expensive.  Something between 6x8 and 10x10.  Somewhere within those sizes.  I'm not sure which way to point you, the guy I was buying tarps from (Bushcraft Outfitters) shut down recently.  I'd probably look at the 7' x 10' olive drab version of the following tarp:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VKJBJK7?tag=arfcom00-20

2.  Get a light weight bug net that's designed to hang from the tarp.  Or you will hate your life.

Lighter Weight Option

Budget Option

3.  Get a ground sheet.  You use this under your sleeping pad.  Bunch of options.  I always used tyvek ground sheets.  You can use a sharpie and color it in, spray paint it, I dunno about dyeing it?  to make it less colorful.  That's the go to option for backpacking.  Another option is to buy some decent quality fabric and make one.  I'd just use a sharpie or two and color the tyvek, or look into dyeing it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/326072289589?

Another option is a heavy duty emergency blanket.  Which is great for winter use and multi-purpose.  However, it is far heavier and bulkier than the tyvek.  I'd still just get the tyvek.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H6NC8XU?tag=arfcom00-20

4.  Get some cordage.  Paracord will work, but I like to run dedicated shelter cordage that is far smaller and lighter.  Micro-cord, dyneema / spectra / kevlar cordage are good options.  Some decent stakes aren't a bad idea.  Aluminum 'MSR Groundhog' stakes, or the amazon knockoffs of them work well.  If you like the tarp idea after using it, look into an aluminum or carbon fiber pole.  You just need one.  Learn to pitch it pyramid style, with the pole at one of the corners.  There are a TON of different ways to pitch a tarp, but that's a good multi-use way of doing it.

5.  Get a surplus foam sleeping mat, specifically look for the 'folding thermarest' surplus mats.  The round, non-folding ones will also work but aren't as compact.  This will get you started and will be more durable than inflatable mattresses.  You can play with those later.  

6.  Figure out what you want to do for sleeping bags.  You have a few options.  But the basic idea is you want a 'summer' bag, and a 'winter' bag.  And you want the bags to work together as a system - ie, one of the bags will be designed to fit inside the other.  This lets you use both of them for extreme temperatures.  This is a very nuanced topic, with a bunch of options and plenty of opinions.  I'm going to give you the stripped down options.  Generally for military type stuff, you want a synthetic bag - a down bag, if it gets wet, is basically useless and takes FOREVER to dry out.  

Option A:  The USGI system.  It's not bad for the money.  It works.  It's heavy and bulky and not as warm as the commercial options.  This is a decent budget option, but there are better options.

Option B:  Wiggy's bags.  People who are into sleeping bags either love or hate Wiggy (the owner).  He's....very opinionated.  His sleeping bags are heavy and bulky (though maybe slightly less so than the USGI bags) but are super warm and will last far longer than other synthetic bags.  And they are designed to work as a system.  And they are cheap, as they are on sale alot.  Personally I like his synthetic overbag - it's a summer weight bag.  I have a winter bag of his for emergencies at home and car camping, but it's WAY too bulky (as is the USGI winter bag)  

Option C:  Get a decent, military oriented commercial system.  Snugpack is an option I hear is popular, though I have no experience other than I have one of their 'jungle bags', which is like a woobie that zips up.  I have a Kifaru bag, though I don't think they make them anymore.  

Option D:  Do some research and get backpacking sleeping bags.  Nothing wrong with this, though you really need to figure out what works with what.  And most commercial backpacking bags have less room in them, which is great for backpacking, not so much if you have to, say, wear your boots in your bag for some reason.

At a MINIMUM, if you can only afford one bag, get a 20F high-quality lightweight synthetic bag.  You will roast in the summer in it, and freeze at night if it gets below 25F or so.  But it's better than nothing.

Again, this is a stripped down version.  Most of the above items will work with other options.  This is similar to what I carry, but for sleeping bags I have a wiggy's overbag (summer weight) and a Western Mountaineering down 0F sleeping bag to go inside the wiggy's bag - yes, I know I said don't get down.  I still say that.  I am pretty experienced and know the risks.  Also as a trick, if you put a down bag INSIDE of a synthetic bag, it dries out much much quicker than other options.  I also got a VERY nice down bag (seriously, they are like $1,000) and it lets me actually pack a winter bag without taking up my whole pack.  Remember I said lots of nuanced options and pros and cons?  Anyways.  The above is basically my loadout.  I have a different sleeping mat, but I also have one of those too, it's what I use for regular backpacking.  Just so you know what I use.

I hope others chime in on other options.  But the above will get you up and running on a budget, with quality gear that will last.

**

Good start on the ECWS levels 1 and 2.  The fleece isn't bad either.  Do you have rain jacket and pants?  If not, get some.  Make sure they go over at least you base layers.

Get a decent lightweight beanie cap.  A wool watch cap to layer over that is nice too.  You don't need much more where you are.  

Get a surplus balaclava.  Or a fleece neck gaiter.  

Gloves - whatever you use for shooting.  But also get a pair of winter mechanix gloves or something similar.  Get a few pair of 'wool glove liners' - look at the surplus sights, they usually have like a 3 pack for $15 or something from whatever european country.  Swiss, sweden, whatever.  Get a pair of decent surplus insulated MITTENS and goretex OVER MITTENS.  The British have some on the surplus market right now in DPM camo or OD that work together well, they are usually ordered separately.  The overmitten is simply a goretex shell you wear over whatever you are wearing, including the insulated mittens, in case it's cold AND wet.  Slushy snow or freezing rain will quickly wet out most gloves.  

So.  The next things you get for cold weather, again, have pros and cons with lots of options.  You need some kind of heavier insulation top piece.  A jacket or system, for if it really gets cold.  Up here, in the winter I've seen it bottom out at -26F on my porch, with heavy winds ever couple years it gets cold like that, at least a couple nights a year..  I'm only 3 hours west of you. This gets nuanced what you do from here.  We aren't dealing with EXTREME colds like up in, say, Minnesota.  But it does get cold here.  

A heavy insulated jacket, like the Level 7, is almost overkill for you.  You won't be using it moving, but sitting still, especially at night in the winter, you might need one.  You could do something like a smock with a field jacket liner - the surplus german jacket liners are nice for the money.  Wiggy's, the backpack company, makes a REALLY nice jacket liner.  Seriously, it's dang nice.  

Don't forget winter footwear.  Get a pair of new surplus ICW boots.  Make sure it has the two pair of insulated liners that are supposed to come with them.  After you break them in and like the fit, get a 2nd pair.  Get a dozen pair of nice, heavy, boot height wool blend socks.  I like darn tough socks.  And then go get a pair of 'Outdoor Research EXPEDITION Crocodile Gaiters' to wear over your boots.  Go on ebay and get a pair of new surplus ones - the civilian ones are black and red.  The surplus ones are either black or coyote colored.  Black is better than the red on the civilian ones.  This is one of the few times I'm going to tell you to just get a specific product.  Those gaiters are the way to go for this stuff.  

Example of ICW boot to look for.

Get a 6 pack of chap stick and / or some tubes or mini tins of vasoline based chap stick stuff.  Or just a mini tin of vasoline itself.  The vasoline and such will also double as a good emergency tinder accelerant.  You can dip anything flammable into it - cotton ball, shredded piece of paper - and it'll act as fuel to help you get a fire going.  It's one of the random things I keep in the buttpack, an extra little tin of the stuff.  I keep a chap stick in my pocket.

I'm probably forgetting some stuff.  Point out what I'm forgetting guys.  And throw in some more ideas / other options / tell me how I'm wrong and a tent  or inflatable sleeping pad or whatever is The Way.

I guess I'll split that off and discuss what leaders would carry in a civilian-ized version of "TAMs" in another thread.  

That's not really logistics, especially not in a military sense.  From Wiki:



And even if you want to include forcing the locals to give supplies as a form of tax, it still pales in comparison to what the US was capable of doing.  The Taliban could get local villagers to support their operations and give shelter to their fights.  Marcus Luttrell got the same support.  The Iraqi insurgency could hire people to spy on Americans.  We hired Iraqi civilians to sell bootleg DVDs in our COPs.  (and some of them even worked!)  Our health services vastly outstripped our enemies, we could build and maintain bases far superior to what the enemy had, and in every material sense, we practically buried our opponents.

So, again, logistics aren't the end all and be all of winning.  Hell, even "hearts and minds" really don't matter, unless you decide they do.  We didn't win the Germans' hearts and minds; we shot them.  We didn't convince the Japanese the righteousness of our cause; we nuked 'em.  A people can be defeated and broken, so utterly devastated by war they can't continue.  The willingness and ability to destroy your enemies and salt the earth of their homes is far more important than logistics, winning hearts and minds, or anything else.  The Taliban didn't retake Afghanistan because they were more popular or offered the common folks a better standard of living; people were terrified of what they would do once they took power, and fled rather than risk becoming their enemies.   So, if amateurs discuss tactics, and professionals discuss logistics, winners are the guys just willing to do what it takes.

I'll add a link to it in the first post on this thread.

Yet long term sustained logistics away from your supply bases is the hardest thing to do in warfare.  Yes you need all of it, but if one side runs out of supplies, it doesn't matter their willpower or training or whatever.  Even when faced by un-trained, low-willpower hordes of idiots.

Using the mag pouch for the IFAK is totally fine.  I wouldn't put anything else in that pouch though.  Maybe some emergency survival stuff in the bottom that you never touch if you have extra space after the IFAK is in there  (mine has about the amount of space, the size of a lemon, left over after the IFAK insert is in there)

The other spare mag pouch is totally fine to use like you are, as a command / utility pouch.  And same with the multitool and such in the added on pouch.  I run my multitool in a pistol mag pouch that has a fastex closed flap over it.

But you want to reserve that buttpack (or rear utility pouches if you go true British style) for other stuff.  If you already have it full, you need to trim down your load a bit.  




Yea, Bushcraft outfitters made the MEST.  That's a good tarp.  That will work for now until you figure out exactly what you want to do for a sleep system.  If you stick with a tarp instead of jumping up to a tent, you will find out you want a bigger tarp.  But that MEST makes a great emergency tarp or a 2nd tarp to make your main tarp bigger  (ie, you can pitch it in front of the open part of your main tarp to act as a vestibule)  

Ok, that larger tarp that is green / reflective on the other side?  That is the survival tarp that I was talking about that would make a good ground sheet in the winter.  It's a good item in general, multipurpose, and works well for certain things involving thermal cameras.  But they are heavy and bulky.  I wouldn't use that unless you don't have anything else.  But if that's all you got?  

The thin emergency blankets won't work as a ground sheet, they will shred immediately.

Find out the bag brand name and model if you can.  Post a pic of the label.  It might be a decent bag that works to get you started.  My first sleeping bag was my dad's hand-me-down bag from back in the early 70's.  I still have it actually.  Come to find out, it was actually a decent sleeping bag in it's time, one of the first of the modern sleeping bags by a niche company.  




Yea, pick through it, figure out what is light enough / not bulky enough that will work.  You will have alot of this stuff.  Alot of it will be too bulky (carhartt jackets for instance) or too fragile (alot of the commercial cold weather jackets for instance) or be too bright in color.  But yea, go through it all, figure out what you have and what you can use.  If nothing else, even if it's, say, too bright, you can use it and see how it works with the rest of your gear, and thus see what works for you.  Then go look and find what you need to replace it.  Same with cold weather boots, though not alot of people have really decent dedicated cold weather footwear that works for long-term, multi-day outings into the cold weather.

I will just add that while heavy, the MSS is the best bang for the buck.  The bulkiest heaviest portion is the black winter bag.  But the green patrol bag and bivy will get you through most scenarios. Unless you live in the great white north.  And makes sure it’s the OG woodland camo bivy sack,  those things are the best.

Yea, the MSS is the best bang for the buck.  Especially if you get the full set with the Bivy included.

And yea, the green bag is a decent standalone.  But I AM a strong believer in a full set - you never know when you will have to ride out a really really cold winter night without heat.  

The OG woodland bivy is the best - except that the new USMC bivy has a built-in bug net which is legit nice.

This is something that separates the generations I suppose.  Back in the day, most every kid was in the boys scouts and already has a pretty good idea of what he needs in the field.  Not to mention everyone was a vet as well.  But no worries, the simplest solution is to simply get out there and find out what works and what doesn't.  The fuck-ups and cold, hungry nights are just part of the process.  Even if you just sleep out in your back yard, the experience goes a long way to teaching you what you need.  Some folks love a lot of cover; some not so much.   You will quickly find out what sleeping bag works for you.  If you err on the light side, you can always add a bag liner, such as a woobie or mylar blanket to warm you up.  It's sorta like your first fight; the fear of it is a lot worse than the actual deal.  Learning you can go through some discomfort and survive is part of the learning process.  

I would say for most "temperate" areas, the light, or usually green, GI sleeping bag is plenty of insulation.  When combined with a woobie, mylar blanket, and/or bivy bag/poncho, it will get you through 95% of any weather most of us might see.  There's a difference in being totally comfy, aka the usual state, vs being a little uncomfortable, but survivable.  That's the zone you need to train yourself in.  

The difference in what size ruck you need (and therefore how heavy it's gonna be) usually comes down to the size of the sleep system.  In the jungle, a poncho and liner might be all you need; but in the mountains, a full double-bag system and bivy might be required.  Having done both, I prefer the "Ranger Roll" whenever possible!

This is part and parcel of the "lightfighter" system.  Not to mention the civies who think they invented it with their "ultralight" iniatives.  They pay hundreds of dollars for their fancy "quilts" which you can build with poncho and liner for pennies on the dollar.

I'm trying to fit a small first aid kit under the pullout for the trauma kit. The sleeping bag I have is a mountain hardware brand.

You would probably want that winter bag too for base camp use.  You have to plan for long term sustainment.

One thing I can say about those ultralight types, they push the envelope and help make things improve, in design and technology.  

Some of those quilts have really good features - far better insulation, lighter, pack down more, etc.  I have one of those old Brigade Quartermaster poncho liners that was made with thinsulate insulation.  It is warmer, lighter, and packs down smaller than a USGI poncho liner, even though it's the same basic design.  Which is one of the reasons I can get away running a poncho and poncho liner in my buttpack along with the other stuff I carry in there.

But what you said is true too - there are pros and cons to everything.  And like I was saying in the other threads about camo choices, gear, etc. - most people don't have a ton of money to throw at gear, especially when they are just starting out and have to get a bunch of stuff.  A USGI poncho and poncho liner will work.  It's the same reason I put the MSS sleeping system as the first choice on that sleeping bag gear list.  It's the best bang for the buck, especially if you are patient and shop around.  I've got a couple sets.  It's decent.  However, my nicer sleeping bag setup is far nicer, lighter, and packs far smaller.  But I also spent enough on just one of the bags to buy 5 MSS sleep systems.  Is it worth it?  That's a personal choice.  But for me?  Was it worth it for ME?  I'm getting older, I can't run a massive pack much longer.  So I invested in a long-term investment setup that I CAN pack down to reasonable sizes and weights.  I worked a little extra, made a little extra, and put it towards that.

I had originally put my small first aid kit under the pullout for my trauma kit like that, but realized that kit would get used relatively often for minor cuts and such (getting infected and dying from a thorn scratching your arm is not optimal to mission outcome) - I didn't want to keep pulling the trauma kit out all the time.  Just food for thought.  It might work for you, but make sure you aren't wearing out your trauma kit.

Mountain Hardware makes a good sleeping bag.  Some of them are REAL nice.  I have a Mountain Hardware Ultra-Lamina for general purpose backpacking use.  Find out which model you have, you might have a really nice bag.

I have done a night out just under my small tarp with the bag that I have. It was more than enough but it was not a particularly cold night. I should add that I have several woobies and a woobie hoody, because they are awesome.

The ECWS stuff I got will be nice to have. The waffle top and bottom feel like they will be pretty warm, and worn inside a bag along with a woobie and a bivy would cover a lot of even winter here. We get some nights in the teens and 20s, but most will be above freezing.

Yea you can layer those woobies over the sleeping bag.  

I usually take an extra pair of L2 waffle base layers to wear in the sleeping bag when backpacking.  It's nice to have a clean set of clothing to put on to sleep in.  This is one of the few little perks that cost me extra weight.  One of the others is I have a stuff-sack that is lined with micro fleece, that I stuff soft clothing in to use as a pillow.  Again, for backpacking.

So you have a decent working setup to start with.  That little tarp will work find with your goretex bivy - it's one of the benefits of using a bivy.  You probably will want to get a mosquito net though.  But yea.  You are way ahead of most people with that setup.

Another option for putting in the bottom of the pouch under the IFAK is an additional ace bandage, roll of coban, and a Super H cravat (large cravat/sterile burn dressing-see link below). That way it’s additional trauma equipment.  Coban is a great tool.  A million uses.

Super H cravat

A few extra rolls of gauze wouldn't be a bad idea either if you need it.

But to be honest, I would put extra med stuff like that in whatever pack you're carrying - I'm trying to keep my belt kit as streamlined and light as possible, not add extra stuff to just fill room.  

Whatever you put in there to fill that space, just make sure it's something that needs to be on the belt kit and shouldn't go into the pack.  That's why I mentioned survival / E&E stuff.  I don't intend to have to open that pouch at all unless something REALLY bad has happened.

Lotsa ways to skin this cat.  Surplus is obviously the best choice to get up and running.  And then supplement with better kit as you see fit.  My wife makes quilts.  So... when it's needed, she will switch over to "wartime" production and make some bitchin woobies, with some different custom fills.  I am still developing load bearing equipment, and will continue to help others do so.  

But I must emphasize, it's the Indian, not the arrow; I try not to get too wrapped up around the axle here.  Anything will do, if you will do.  

But with that out of the way, the Lightfighter concept is just that; you are trying to optimize your load out for max efficiency.  Civvies do it and call it done.  You are doing it because you still have weapons and equipment to carry.

C'mon diz.  Half the battle is looking cool.  

Well yeah, you do get style points for being Ally.

Nice.

Is the water a little better in NC?

Down here, well...... even purified, twice boiled gives me pause. All the nasty rivers that all flow through here to the Mississippi, high water table, chemical plants, nasty polluted swamps, etc is just a gamble

@marnsdorff  @2apatriot

That looks really good!

Thanks man   :-)

I live in the mountains.  Think Crystal Clear Mountain Streams.  

But yea, I getcha, especially the chemical plants.

I've filtered water from stagnant farm ponds, the kinds that cows wallow in that have green scum on top you have to scrape off.  

You learn to pre-filter a bunch, but one of the nice filters, done right, will remove almost everything, except some of the chemicals.  But that filter won't last long (maybe a bottle of water at best) if you don't pre-filter it heavily.

So far I’ve only used that set up on water from a rain barrel in my backyard. No problems at all.

I’d feel comfortable using it on almost anything. If it was standing water, I’d want to add some purification tabs to make sure.

These style filters have a pretty dang good reputation with backpackers, including thru hikers who drink water from all kinds of nasty sources for months at a time without chemical additives.  I used mine for 3 months on the AT for me and my cousin, and neither of us got sick, even drinking from standing water from cow fields.  They aren't like the older filters or the home water filters.  The good ones - like most of the Sawyers - are rated to filter out viruses and such.

I'm not saying trust them 100% no matter what.  Just that they are technically rated to filter out the stuff you will most likely run into and have a long track record of effectively doing so.

Good to know!

I have to get out there next time in rains and find some nasty stuff to test it with.

First of all, I don't think most here want the great reset to happen. I have 2 small kids. That doesn't mean I don't try to get as ready as I can.

The 2 worst disasters I've been through was the 2nd battle of fallujah and Indonesia after the tsunami.

If the US saw a large scale disaster I don't have your confidence. Most people may not be an 88r or a card carrying commie but they've also never gone 4 days without food or watched their kids starve.

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The best way to start to grasp what you might need is to just go camping. Simple overnights where is you miss something it's no big deal.

Keep a notepad to write stuff down.

Read some books too
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Even sleeping in your gear in the backyard will really help you figure things out.

Do at least one night in the winter and at least one night in the rain.  You will QUICKLY figure out what works and what you need to add / change.

If you got kids, take them with you when it's nice out.  Tell them it's an adventure.  Teach them fire safety.

The goal is not to test it out on nasty water    :-D   Use clean water.

That's the problem.  When people go without food for a few days.

Yep. We're all presumably moral people, but also all agree that we'd do anything to alleviate the suffering of our children. Eventually, sometimes, these things come into conflict.

My son's 5 and has been coming camping with me for the last 2 years. Including a 5 day canoe trip in northern Maine last fall that gave us a bit of weather to deal with and no tent just a tarp.
We've even had to do some first aid in the field
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My daughter's 3 and has been a big help building fires for the last year
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Did someone say food?
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