Background
I wanted to post this for those who are often burdened by delays when making firearms purchases. I am posting this in the NFA section specifically because that is really where this situation hurts in a way that is unavoidable. Also, as obtaining the UPIN is a long wait sort of thing, approximately a year, I just want people to know what it really does and doesn't do, because you're going to be disappointed. Let me explain with a little background.

1. In many states, obtaining your CCW will allow you to skip the NICS check, thus alleviating the issue of being unjustly delayed your rights on normal firearms purchases.

2. I recommend ONLY purchasing from retailers who will respect the 3 day rule, whereas if you are delayed for 3 working days, they are legally allowed to transfer the firearm to you. Keep in mind that they are not obligated to transfer it, and they certainly have the right to wait for a proceed or let an indefinite delay time out and then just not sell you the gun. That is their choice and their right to do so. I simply recommend asking them their policy up front and then making your purchase elsewhere if they do not respect the 3 day rule.

With that out of the way...

Neither of those two solutions apply to NFA purchases (suppressors, SBR, SBS, Select Fire...). Now, I don't think the 2A community is under any illusion that an NFA process is any different than a standard NICS check that you would normally process in a local gun store. What does NICS stand for? National INSTANT Criminal Background Check System. Sounds reasonable enough, right? I mean, it is INSTANT, or is it? What the ATF does, however, is sit on these applications which could honestly be processed instantly in your local gun store like any other NICS check. When they get around to your application finally, all they are really doing is submitting it to the FBI for a NICS check, again, like your local gun store does all day long. This process, as we all know, is solely about obstructing your rights, and we've all known that for years.

Recent changes...
I will speculate that I believe the recent speeding up of the NFA process has to do with the many legal attacks on the ATF with regards to the NFA and specifically suppressor purchases. Let's face it, the $200 tax on a constitutional right is completely out of line, dare I say illegal, but we are so beaten down by the system and their "what are you going to do about it?" attitude that we will fork over the $200 relatively happily if we could just have access to our rights in an appropriate and expeditious timeframe. Even as I type this, don't think that the irony of having "access to our rights" escapes me. So, with mounting pressure and more and more incentive to file additional suits against the ATF and .gov in general regarding the NFA, they made a smart move by trying to speed up the process and alleviate our biggest complaint. It is a, sort of, everybody wins scenario. They keep taking your money unjustly and putting you on a list while you get to access your rights in a bit more timely manner. I know, I know... I threw up in my own mouth a little while typing that.

Alright, now on to the UPIN issue...
I'm not trying to tell you not to get one. I just want you to temper your expectations with it, especially as it pertains to the NFA process. The actual application process is pretty straight forward, however, depending on what the FBI's confusion might be with either confirming your identity or vetting a possible disqualifying record as a non-disqualifying record, you may have to jump through some hoops to do their job for them. Remember, they are not really here to help the process, but specifically to hinder it. Now, you've waited a year or so and get your shiny new UPIN issued to you. Great, how does it work?

I've been through the process so here is what I know. When I moved from one state to another, I didn't immediately apply for a new CCW for the new state, because I was still traveling back and forth and we had reciprocity. Therefore, when I made purchases in my new state, I had to do the NICS check like everyone else since my CCW was out of state and only applied to carrying, not purchasing. That is when I started using the UPIN to make regular purchases. To be honest, it seemed to work for the few purchases I made. Then on my last purchase, I got hit with a delay again... Ultimately, on the third day, NICS came back with a Proceed determination. Realize that it is in their best interest to respond to these delays in a timely manner because the 3-day rule does exist, and they don't want a firearm transferred to a prohibited individual just because they couldn't do their job on time. Makes sense, but why the delay when there is a UPIN which was issued after a long investigation and vetting process? I'll get to that.

Now onto the NFA. You apply your UPIN as you normally would. Then you sit back and watch everyone on Reddit post their approvals within days, occasionally hours! You chat with your friends and all of a sudden they are buying suppressors weekly and getting approvals in a few days. You, however, keep checking your email and nothing, notta, zilch... So you start emailing the ATF and the FBI NICS Liaison to ask what the deal is. Well, the ATF is actually submitting the applications to NICS quickly now, but you find out that you are in delay status with NICS again, and there is no 3 day rule. So what happens? The FBI sits on it and gets to it only when and IF it is convenient. No rush though, because .gov already got your money and has zero incentive to do their part.

So what is the point of the UPIN at this stage? That is a great question, and I finally got the answer, though I suspect the FBI employee who walked into it unsuspectedly via email might not have meant to do it if they knew what they were walking into.

Here is the interaction

FBI NICS Liaison

"ATF NFA checks are processed in the order that they are received from the ATF.   If a background check matches to a potentially disqualifying record, it is placed in a queue to be worked as stated above.  If there are no potential matches, a check is processed rather quickly."

My reply

"Thank you. I understand. However, what then is the point of the UPIN if not to signal that the potentially disqualifying record has been investigated and vetted as not being a disqualifying record, allowing the process to work for one as it does for all? The point of the UPIN is that the background check does not need to be “worked” as it has ALREADY been worked and assigned a UPIN. Otherwise, and I ask again, what is the point of applying for and going through the process of obtaining the UPIN?

I hope you can understand the distinction I am making here as it seems like you are telling me that no matter what I do to get vetted and alleviate this issue, this process will always discriminate against me, even after following the steps given to me by the ATF and FBI to make sure that it doesn’t. At some point it seems as if it is just an excuse to obstruct, which feels counterproductive as it seems measures have been otherwise taken to speed up the process."

FBI NICS Liaison
"A transaction with a UPIN still has to be "worked" by an examiner, as the will need to view the record to ensure nothing has occurred since the UPIN has been issued.  We apologize for any inconvenience but we are working daily to process these transactions."

My reply
"This is what I am talking about. In a nutshell, what is being said to me is that once there is any confusion on the part of the FBI, the individual will be discriminated against in perpetuity by not allowing them the same process and rights under the law as everyone else, even if they have gone through the process laid out by the FBI to clear said confusion and set that record straight. They will continue to be treated differently, as if another class of citizen.

This is a startling confession and I am compelled to share it with others."

Conclusion
As I have mentioned previously, I am not trying to discourage anyone from getting their UPIN, but I want to paint a realistic picture here so that you temper your expectations. We have all come to know .gov as not really being a source for reason, logic, and accountability. If it was, then reason would dictate that whatever the issue was which caused your delay would actually be resolved by the very UPIN which was the result of the investigation and advanced vetting process you went through to receive it. However, right from the horses mouth, you have read that the UPIN will make no such resolution and that your expectation to clear the issue and be treated like everyone else may not, in fact, become a reality. It was their error and their confusion, but you will continue to pay for it in perpetuity.

Discriminatory? Would you expect anything less?

I never said it meant "instant approval" and am not sure where you got that from. I think you are missing my point here. By going with some type of "instant" response system that replaces a more cumbersome 5 day wait, the idea is to streamline the process of getting an answer, whether it is a proceed or deny. The delay, on the other hand, has its purpose as well, and is understandable in certain situations. The point however, is that when you are given a UPIN, it means an investigation has taken place to resolve whatever issue is causing the delay, whether it is an identifying issue or a legal issue that is not clearly distinguishable in its details to the NICS system. Once the UPIN explains the discrepancy, it should be corrected in the NICS system in a manner that clears the discrepancy and otherwise allows the instant proceed or deny response based on factors that no longer need to address the discrepancy associated with the issued UPIN.

Otherwise, the UPIN only exists to alleviate an indefinite delay, which would not be a constitutionally defensible situation to begin with.

I think you didn't read clearly what I wrote. I am well aware that the Brady Law does not apply to NFA items. I explained that clearly in my post. I placed this UPIN related post in the NFA section specifically because the subject matter only really interferes with NFA purchases because they are not subject to Brady.

I said "3 working days" but thank you for making the "three business days" distinction, because without that I can't imagine anyone understanding the context of the message. Seriously man, parsing words like that just to say "I'm right and you're wrong" is kind of pedantic. And again, I made it clear that this Brady law didn't apply to the NFA, which was literally one of the points of my post. Further, I was saying that, in the past, ATF did not submit NICS checks on NFA applications immediately as they do now, even with the eforms system. It took much longer for your application to get in front of an examiner, and by then the application had just been sitting for months. Today it is different. They are submitting the eforms applications to NICS almost right away, and NICS is, for the most part, sending them back very quickly.

It really just seems like you are looking for an argument, and you know what they say... When you are out looking for one, you'll find one or create it... This post has nothing to do with anger. It is informational. But I'm sure the feds appreciate your support and will keep a seat for you at the table. They are lucky to have such a dear friend.

We agree on the "Congress is too busy infighting" somewhat, but it would also be a matter of giving up the tax stamp. It would be hard to justify a special tax on a right if the arbitrary and unnecessary bureaucracy of the situation was removed.

Here is what I said:

"What does NICS stand for? National INSTANT Criminal Background Check System. Sounds reasonable enough, right? I mean, it is INSTANT, or is it?"

Hardly sounds like a rant. Seems a lot more like a simple parsing of an acronym followed by a rhetorical question and then a question. So your use of the term "ranting" is just another way in which you show you are here to argue and not contribute. Such an "Internet forum" type. Good for you!



Do you have a UPIN? I do, and I've been through the process. In my case, there was an incomplete record based on an administrative misunderstanding that happened when I was in high school. For some reason the record was so incomplete that there was not even a charge mentioned. That is how obscure the whole situation was. The FBI took caution, according to them, because the lack of any specific charge means they couldn't rule out a charge of domestic violence. The FBI actually asked me personally to contact the local agency and obtain a letter from them stating that there was nothing of the sort involved 25 years prior. I was able to obtain that document for the FBI and, with that understanding, was issued a UPIN in order to denote that this obscure record what not something that would prohibit me.

Yes, you still have to go through a background check like everyone else, however, the UPIN is associated with that record, and should should therefore skip that record and provide an answer based on all other records or lack thereof. This has actually been the case. Since I relocated and started using the UPIN, I never had any delay like I did every purchase prior to my UPIN. I would get an instant Proceed. Then, after many instant Proceed non-NFA purchases, I had a Delay on one non-NFA purchase. Then the following NFA purchase after that got a delay also (although it was resolved and approved immediately after the email exchange in my original post). So that is how it can work and how it can fail to work.



Like I said, parsing words for the purpose of saying "I'm right and you're wrong." Congratulations on your success.  

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[Deleted]

I thought it was too peaceful lately.

Knock it off.