A belt fed is on my bucket list to own one day but the M1919 seems like quite a beast to get to the range and setup. I prefer something light and small that’s easy to transport.

I’ll probably scratch the belt fed itch with a MCR

I always bring both my M11 and M16 but I typically put more rounds through the M11. It’s half the price to shoot, almost no recoil, can be used in the pistol range, and can shoot steel at close range.

The ability to shoot steel would make a WWII subgun a lot of fun.

I'm a big fan of the integrally suppressed Sterling. Looks, comfortable to shoot and accurate for a subgun.  

I don’t know about the old guns, but Andrewski told me that the S&W 76 trigger bar needs to be reworked every 10k rounds or so. I think it is a relevant factor with at least some guns.

I thought you were supposed to transport 1917s & 1919s on the pintle mounts on your restored Jeep?  

From the guns on your list I have a WW2 1928 Thompson, an MP40, and a Reising.

If you have an M16 and M11 already and want the quintessential WW2 subgun there is really no question in my mind....its a Thompson. Sure they are heavy, a bit awkward in terms of stock to cheek/shoulder fit, and the ergos leave a bit to be desired.  However what subgun of that era doesn't have a some design eccentricities.

With your budget you should be able to find a WW2 West Hurley M1 Thompson for right at $20K.  While the 1928 WH guns have receiver dimensional issues with their blish lock cuts the M1s don't have these problems as the M1 is straight blowback so does'nt have a blish lock.  I have a buddy with an WH M1 and it shoots just fine.   The Thompson will also get you a 45acp subgun (that your M16 or M11 can't do or at least easily do) and its one of the most recognizable/iconic firearms ever produced.

To me of all the subguns I own the MP40 is probably my least favorite  The rate of fire is so slow at 500rpm its basically like pulling the trigger fast on a semi-auto,  the folding stock is poor, the sights are not great, mags are really expensive and being single column presentation a pain to load, replacement parts are expensive, its really heavy/clunky for a 9mm subgun, and it honestly just also feels cheap to me with a plastic chassis and AK underfolder style metal stock.

Similar to you, I have always through about getting a Sten because they are relatively inexpensive and as other posters have mentioned are not bad shooters if you can get past the crude design and construction.  I always just balk because they just look like shit, although I am sure I will end up with a Sten one of these days just to round out the WW2 subgun collection.

Sterlings are not bad guns in my experience but I am not sure I want one for ~$20K and as previously mentioned are not really a WW2 subgun.  I don't have any direct experience with the Lanchester or PPSH so can't comment on either.

One of the more undervalued subguns IMHO is the Reising.  While nowhere near as iconic as the Thompson the earlier guns are really nice with the walnut stock, finned barrel, blued steel, trigger pull and sights are not bad, retro style comp, etc.  

Mine runs great, its closed bolt so its actually a pretty decent semi-auto carbine if you want to "pull singles" via sliding the selector lever, full auto rate of fire is more to my liking in the low 800rpm range so it feels like a machinegun.  The biggest downside is the 20rd factory mags and 30rd Christie mags are really expensive although folks have reported success with 22rd Uzi 45ACP promags and a sleeve.   The charging handle arrangement is not the best and the mag catch design isn't great.  However,  if you can live with half a dozen factory mags its not terrible financial proposition given how inexpensive the actual gun can be found.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Here is my Sten MK6 , love it . Out of everything I’ve shot it’s my favorite by far. Plus due to the can being the hand guard I can’t get through more than 3 mags before it’s too hot to hold so it saves me ammo

Attached File

As I said previously, I've had my M50 Reising since '94, I broke an action bar, and 1 firing pin.
I don't shoot it that often, maybe 500 rounds/year.
There is a "fix" for the firing pin issue, by filing it down to be an inertia type pin.
My action bar is the only one that I've heard of breaking.
I have seen bolts that have broken on online forums. Indianapolis Ordnance makes new bolts.

Will it run when holding onto the magwell, or no?

Yeah but I don’t like grabbing it that way

That’s interesting to hear that only the 1928 WH have issues I thought it was all WH Thompson. I would be most interested in the M1 model anyways being it was more associated with WWII. I do love the look of the Thompson and it’s instantly recognizable. I was originally leaning more towards the Reising due to price. As far as mags go I would only need a couple, I only have 2 good mags for my M11 and it’s never any issue, one person loads while the other shoots.

I'd love to have just one crate of the Thompsons Wagner Group found in Ukraine. Any chance on CMP auction on these

So I’m bias, but for 20k you can get a C&R Reising and a Sten tube gun on sturm, and have 1,500-2,000 left over.

Both can be finicky, but once they’re right, they just run.

Sten tube guns can be unreliable crap, to something like mine where I wouldn’t hesitate trusting my life to it.

It just depends who did the build, was it a registered tube someone cobbled together shortly after the ban when they were still cheap, or was it a reputable builder who knew what they were doing?

Even then, almost anything can be fixed.

The Reisings again they can be a bit temperamental, parts are unserialized, and certain things (namely the bolt) aren’t just interchangeable without some moderate fitting, which can cause numerous malfunctions.

But again almost anything can be fixed, and if you find a good gun, they do very well (besides firing pins, I’d highly recommend a keystone titanium pin).

Mags are expensive but someone came up with a cheap 3D printed sleeve for 22 round Uzi pro .45 mags which seem to work.


https://youtube.com/shorts/I-ltCHoKzo8?si=gvK7jTx5yEWLtFTU

https://youtube.com/shorts/-r-dmv3zcA4?si=qm7hd8ptuF8gzN59

We have everything listed and more at the shop.

They are all equally exciting (boring) to shoot

Not on the list, and what I would pick, is the solothurn.

It’s still a heavy slow ww2 smg, but the craftsmanship is amazing.

STEN:



Reising:

Just out of curiosity, what is more fun to you? Higher cyclic rate?

I haven't had any issues with extensive parts breakage but as they get older things happen (such as metal fatigue).  I have had older MGs worked on from master gunsmiths that took years to turn around.  I have had parts with excessive or premature wear and the only option was to fabricate a new part.  I've had some parts where I've struggled to find a substitute (for example, a 12 round Reising spring).  Some of the replacement parts stand out to my eyes as the finish doesn't match (such as early bluing).

My main reason for selling them is mainly that they aren't getting used.  I appreciate the history and engineering behind each of them.  I feel guilty seeing them just sitting in a dark safe.  They deserve better than just getting pulled out occasionally to clean and preserve them.  I wanted them to get to a good home where someone is using and enjoying them.

Perhaps I'm just getting older and content that I finished my MG bucket list...

.308’s and the bar are much more fun for me - something I can feel in my shoulder.

The Mac’s and f/a glocks are giggle machines, but I prefer the battle rifles.

Ww2 smg’s with heavy bolts are almost at the bottom of my list.

I know what you mean - I've had 3 Stens (Mk II and 2 MK Vs) that had some play and were OK but then got a Charles Erb MK V build that is solid and hasn't had an issue.  I have full confidence in that Erb.

I had a late-model parkerized Reising that was temperamental and needed some tweaking.  I got an early blued Reising (served stateside and came in a beautiful Fed Labs case), that functions great (guessing with original fitted parts).

That's why I recommend people get a chance to inspect and test fire whenever possible.

Holy shit!

Dear Mr. Wagner,
The people of Arfcom would gladly trade their ammo forts in exchange for NIB Thompson and Maxim machine guns. I know there will be some political/legal hurdles to overcome, but with your recent cash infusion and clout, I have faith you can make it happen.
Sincerely,
Arfcom

Umm.  He be dead.

While not exactly a SMG, the M2 Carbine is also huge fun to shoot.  It is a one trick pony, no caliber conversions or anything, but so are the WWII SMGs.  The Carbine has a high rate of fire, but it doesn't have a massive bolt slamming back and forth, and of course it fires from a closed bolt.  The M2 Carbine might not be iconicly WWII, but the M1 sure is and the M2 did manage to see some service.  Parts and mags are readily available.  The biggest downside to the M2 is the cost of .30 Carbine ammo.

As mentioned in a previous post, I sold my STEN to in part fund a BRP Suomi.  The rest of that story is that I also sold one of my M10s and a Burgess SW76 and also bought a M2 Carbine.  I'm waiting (very impatiently) for the transfers on both to go through.  So, I traded three guns for two, but the two have a lot more character IMO.

The 5.7 Spitfire exists, but that's a lot of reloading to keep an M2 fed.  Couple of 9mm M1 carbine attempts, but one barely works & the other has mags of unobtanium, IIRC.

That’s exactly what I wanted.

I wanted the Sterling regardless and the builder didn’t want to do an integral.

I've seen a couple for sale recently. Wanna say the price was around $35k for each.

That's not entirely correct.  Off the top of my head, .22LR conversions for Thompsons have been made for a number of years, and there is currently a new batch in final stages of production.  Also. the M3 had a 9mm bolt and magazine magwell adapter option.  WWII vintage examples tend to be rather pricy, IIRC.

I'll also note that a post upthread incorrectly referred to the (obviously post WWII) Uzi as "a one trick pony" as well.  .45 ACP and .22LR conversions for the full size Uzi have been around for some time, and are readily available via a "WTB" ad.  Semi Uzi barrels in .41 AE have been commercially produced also, and could be easily converted for full auto use.  And, for a while there was a "universal" .22LR conversion that could be configured for full, mini, or micro Uzis.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.

Based on my limited experience, the Tommy Gun is more fun to shoot. It’s a bullet hose.

The Sten is fun too.

The Grease Gun rate of fire is a little too slow IMHO.

I’ve actually never shot a WWII sub machine gun, feel like I probably should find a place that rents them before I decide. Then again I bought my M16 and M11 having never fired one before and enjoy the hell out of them, at the end of the day it’s a machine gun, can’t really not like it lol

Maybe buy a 9mm AR, and run that in FA (if your 16 is a dias/ll). Add a lb of weight to it, or 4 if you want M1A.  Not sure what 9mm AR cyclic is though.   Should give you an approximatation ofnthe shooting experience.

Or, fly to Vegas, and rent a bunch of your ideas at BFV.

.22 LR, 9x19mm, .41 AE, .45 ACP....   And?

Since you have those two you pretty much know the versatility of them.

I sold my M2 carbine ( trigger pack gun )
And the MK760 for double what I paid for them.


Kept the M10 due to the versatility.

The sterling pictured on the 1st page in the box was one I just saw sell for 22k
I think they were 17k when released in the custom box.

If you Don't mind a tube gun then yes stens & sterling repops can be had well under 20k
More so if you buy private where a deal can worked out for extras and negotiations on prices.

my vote would be the sterling they just look cool and shoot well with mags easy to load and still for sale
on the market.

If you want new and a shooter then ya BRP gets my vote.
New gun from a good company and parts are currently everywhere for the Suomi31 drums are still under 100 for decent ones also.

I Use them on my 10/31 upper and they preform well without being to heavy loaded.

I also have run the Uzi in addition to the calibers above, 40SW.
I have a friend that also runs 45 super as well as 10mm in his Uzi.
There is also some 357sig barrels out there by Barrelxchange.

How well does the .357 SIG's shoulder fare in a straight blowback?  I've had vague thoughts about converting a SUB-2000 to .357, the parts exist, would just need to ream the 9mm bbl for the new chamber.

No hurry, just curious.  I'm building a Fold-AR (has been sitting for a year) that will replace my SUB and most thoughts of running .357 SIG in a straight blowback.

Was there ever a flush-fit Uzi mag?

Really?  The suppressor isnt worth that much, it’s the tube that is the money.  I bought mine in 2019, it was 12k.

Just clicked that sparticus has a M11.
Dude, you wanna borrow a lage slow fire upper?  It's got some heft to it, and slow fire to 600-700 rpm. Might be a near rep of mp40/sten rof and weight.

We are going to be in Indiana for a shoot in may - and have a good selection of ww2 smgs

Not sure if you can wait that long but at least it’s a try before you buy.

Here is the one I was thinking of on Sturm (not mine) that is listed at $35k. I was wrong about the other, it is actually listed at $39k by a dealer known to be on the higher end of pricing.

https://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33285-wts-sterling-mk5-l34a1-

I’ve got a lage max-11k upper on my M11, it’s a nice rate of fire in that 600 rpm range. I imagine it’s probably similar to shooting most of the open bolt SMGs on my list.

My thought processes was to diversify my MG collection. My M11 is a modern subgun, the M16 gives me a rifle caliber MG. Feel like I still need a beltfed and something historic to round out the collection. Beltfeds are out of my price range and will probably always be something to dream of and work towards. For now a WWII subgun will give me something to fiddle with until I win the lottery.

Not all belt feds are out of your price range. Check out the Maxim MG-08/15 and the 1919A4; they are both less expensive than most selective fire rifles.

Well the belt feds I want are out of my price range. I want something modern, light weight, and fired from a bipod or standing. Like a M60E6 ($80k) or HK21 ($70k).

You could have an all titanium M1919A6 built in .308 w/ a light bbl w/ only the steel sideplate.  

Modern problems require modern solutions.

A MCR is probably my best bet for a belt fed. Light weight, quick change barrels, dual feed.