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Posted: 11/10/2024 11:55:28 AM EDT
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Forgive me if I post this here, but this is for the NV crowd, not the GD. I have been quite vocal in my preference for Chinese NV items; we all know the issues, I won't repeat all that here, however, I will say that certain folks will be quite happy to hear that tariffs might be imposed on Chinese imports. We could see a significant rise in prices of all these "Chinese NV products", as arfcom likes to segregate. Is this a good thing or bad? I don't know; you tell me. First of all, if this encourages domestic MFG's to go out on a limb, to innovate and take chances, then yes, it will be. But also I would add, I'd like to see the political climate change so they could also give us the features we really want. If both these things, happen, then yes, it is a good thing. I would happily buy an American full-feature, full power MFAL. If it only forces us to buy domestic products, which are still nerfed, and quadruple the price? Then I'd say, no. A lot depends on which way the wind blows. If tariffs do come into play, forcing the Chinese to play "on an even field" so to speak, will all this cheap NV stuff dry up? Most likely yes. Will the domestics then sell more product? Maybe, but then again, maybe not. I have seen a strong current of what the market wants here; can the domestic market then provide it? And if not, do folks just settle on what's available, or go without? I don't know the answers here, but I know there are going to be some interesting times. |
It's all about the fiddle factor.
| While tariffs makes sense from a geopolitical standpoint, we are going to suffer. Went out and bought a second IRA rh25 V2 just because I think a year from now it'll be $6,000 instead of five. Domestic manufacturers are not going to give us what we want. They were going to give the government what it wants. They're not going to lower their prices. They are going to behave exactly as they've behaved up till now. Good luck. |
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Originally Posted By JSB2k10: While tariffs makes sense from a geopolitical standpoint, we are going to suffer. Went out and bought a second IRA rh25 V2 just because I think a year from now it'll be $6,000 instead of five. Domestic manufacturers are not going to give us what we want. They were going to give the government what it wants. They're not going to lower their prices. They are going to behave exactly as they've behaved up till now. Good luck. Yep. The point of tariffs is to allow domestic manufacturers to compete at a higher price point. If it's an import, it'll be more expensive. |
| It'll be good for the country, so I don't mind taking the hit. Wages and investments should go up, offsetting some of the pain. Gotta stop being selfish for the good of the country. They can build factories here to avoid the tariffs, no idea on what the final price difference would be doing it that way. |
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Originally Posted By mickdonaldson: It'll be good for the country, so I don't mind taking the hit. Wages and investments should go up, offsetting some of the pain. Gotta stop being selfish for the good of the country. They can build factories here to avoid the tariffs, no idea on what the final price difference would be doing it that way. So, without going into the politics of this... basically, tariffs can be a good thing if they're targeted and temporary, providing American manufacturers an opportunity to catch up and become competitive. If the outcome of this is "MAWLs and RAID Xes are still $3500 and all the other choices on the market get more expensive", all that you did was hurt yourself and give out a handout to the industry, not make anyone more competitive. |
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Originally Posted By chosos: I like seeing a lot of innovation in this space, which felt stagnate for years. I just hope that a bunch of tariffs don't slow progress. Hopefully we are all making more $ to spend more $ on domestic products. The optimistic scenario is that Z-Bolt, Steiner USA, etc. get off their asses and introduce lower priced VCSEL alternatives using the breathing room that tariffs buy them. The realistic scenario is that all the cheap MFALs get X% more expensive, and that's about it. |
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Depends on how high the tariffs will be on these Chinese products. I think it's reasonable to assume though that anything that interests the firearms community will be in the highest tariff category, because let's be honest the Federal government never misses an opportunity to stick it to us. Will the tariffs be so high as to make U.S. laser devices competitive in price with the Chinese ones? Let's hope that isn't the case, because that would essentially just lead to fewer civilians having these devices since many would be priced out of the market place. It's a fair warning though, anyone who has been sitting on something waiting for the Holosun IRIS or waiting until after the New Year should probably reconsider now. I have a feeling that the Trump tariffs will be put into place very quickly, and January 20th is not that far away. The U.S. manufacturers are almost exclusively concerned with military and LEO sales. Companies like Zbolt with their ACAL seem to have no definitive plan yet regarding production. The Steiner products are all ancient designs and in the case of the D2 the size and weight of a brick. The other U.S. options are prohibitively expensive for average citizen that doesn't make his 2A related items a budget priority. |
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Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Will the tariffs be so high as to make U.S. laser devices competitive in price with the Chinese ones? I know what you're trying to say, but the net effect of tariffs is to make Chinese MFALs as uncompetitive in price as the US MFALs. It does jack-all on its own to make the US prices more competitive if the US manufacturers have no interest in competing. The only good news is that I suspect broad tariffs are mostly a campaign promise thing, not something we'll see implemented. |
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Well at the risk of this becoming a discussion it shouldn't, I think a Trump win here is going to be a huge change for the better, regardless of who's ox may get "gored" here. I don't agree that it's a big nothing burger. Either the Chinese will change their "evil" ways (and raise prices on their own), or he will enact tariffs; I don't think that's any idle threat. But point well taken; instead of improving the market, from our perspective, it may make it worse. Totally depends on the mfg's and the political climate. If the FP restrictions can be lifted, and/or the VCSEL technology perfected (and allowed to "skirt" the rules), the domestics might be encouraged to invest more time and effort into giving us a full featured MFAL for around 1K. So much can happen here. At least it might give these new up and comers more incentive to innovate. I only bring this up to re-iterate the fact that I'm perfectly willing to buy from, and support the domestics, IF they can deliver. The only reason I have been buying foreign stuff is they are giving me exactly what I want. Someone also mentioned Holosun as getting caught up in this. I don't think they are in the same category as Milsim/Airsoft stuff but for sure are being caught in the same net. What they are doing should be the goal of the domestics; the prices should not be artificially inflated, just to benefit the locals. It would be a level playing field; if Holosun and some domestics are all around the same price point. Ideally the domestics might offer a bit more, at a slightly higher price which leaves it up to the consumer to decide what they want. |
It's all about the fiddle factor.
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Originally Posted By Diz:If the FP restrictions can be lifted, and/or the VCSEL technology perfected (and allowed to "skirt" the rules), the domestics might be encouraged to invest more time and effort into giving us a full featured MFAL for around 1K. So much can happen here. At least it might give these new up and comers more incentive to innovate. It seems to me there's three market segments in the aimer/illuminator world: 1. Domestic units that are expensive, often crippled in power, slow to market, etc. in the ~$1500-3000 range. DBALs to MAWLs, etc. 2. Straight-up China knockoffs that violate trade dress, often overpowered, but work okay at $500 prices. *Cough* Somogear NGAL *cough*. 3. Unique China MFALs that aren't violating anyone's trademarks, etc. Currently most are floody, under and/or overpowered, but darnit if they're not getting there in performance and they're super-cheap from $100-250 range. Toughsoul 9069, Defentac, etc. (...and the new SMS HFXC which honestly might just change the game, being not an airsoft rip-off, but checks all the right boxes at $200...fingers crossed. Please don't suck, please don't suck, please don't suck...) :) If political forces make option #2 go away because of the trade dress / patent issues, then option #3 will stay valid but just get a bit more expensive with tariffs. But even if it's double+ the price ($300-600?) it'll still be marketable. And they're getting better all the time (see SMS). So if the new normal becomes a $500 China MFAL that's not a knockoff, but actually works well... at THAT point, it becomes a bit more tempting for a USA maker to try and put together a ~$600-800 box that performs as well as the Somos and such. I think someone can do it. (VCSEL means it can be "full powerish", so the playing field levels there a bit too.) Ultimately, I think that's what's been missing - and some US manufacturer should be chasing this market - low-to-mid price, original MFALs. Honestly I hate the fakes... I feel bad for Wilcox, etc. getting their stuff ripped off when the China makers COULD pack that same technology into their own design housing and it would sell on it's own merits vs. looking like milspec gear. Or a US maker could put together if they wanted to. There's probably a lot of people that would buy something like the Somogear NGAL or whatever if it DIDN'T rip off the NGAL, but rather just put that same tech in an original cosmetic box. They'd gladly buy USA if they could get something within a couple hundred bucks of a good, non-ripoff China aimer. But all these late-night meanderings leave me with the same question that potential US makers would be asking themselves before investing in bringing out a product like this: What's the market future look like for MFALs in general? As far as rifle-mounted scopes, is the customer moving to better and more affordable thermals, and away from i2 that needs IR aim/illum devices? Or is the helmet-mounted NOD (digital or analog) with rifle-mounted aim/illum still what people will be buying in the next four years? |
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Donald Trump is unlikely to simply throw tarrifs at everything coming from China. Even if he does, it will likely be targetted at anything threatening large american corporations rather than at general stuff they make. Of course, if he does, it will be great for Australia for a while... China will dump all their surplus here. But that's unlikely to happen. More likely, he'll just support tarrifs on anything that takes away US jobs and industry, and having some things that aren't tarrifed will provide leverage against retaliation. Look how effective controls over computer chips has been? But if everything went up? Given how much China exports to the US presently, your inflation would skyrocket due to tarrifs if that happened. Where would Walmart fill it's shelves with cheap products? Amazon would collapse overnight as items people wanted vanished. Who is being hurt by Chinese thermal sales? Civ sales probably aren't a huge part of any US providers revenue. Unless they are caught up in a broad category, why would they be taxed? |
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Well, let's say there is a 50% tariff and that would somehow directly translate into a 50% price increase, that's probably unlikely, then we're talking about an IRIS 3 that would be around $1,350. That would be upsetting, but it would still make the IRIS the best buy in the IR MFAL/LAM market in terms of cost and performance. Now, I don't think we're going to see that direct of a cost increase. So, I think folks are in full blown panic mode for nothing really. Could the tariffs go even higher? Could we end up with just a straight embargo on all Chinese goods though? Maybe, the CCP seems like they're willing to escalate and I don't imagine Trump is going to back down. I hope that doesn't happen. Who knows though, maybe this could lead to Holosun USA actually establishing U.S. production here and althought that would likely increase the cost of the unit it probably would still be far superior in afforability than any of its competition like the MAWL, RAID Xe, or the anticipated VCSEL Steiner that was shown at SHOT Show this year. Obviously though, setting up manufacturing takes years, at best, and so let's hope this whole trade dispute is resolved. I think the USA could do what China does to us, require that if you sell a product in the USA you have to invest a certain amount into the distribution or the manufacture of those items within the USA. I think Holosun USA does have a pretty fair sized U.S. presence in terms of employees and distribution, but likely that would have to be beefed up. The real PITA for me, is that I don't like the MAWL and the RAID Xe is full blown retardation price with features that add to its cost I'd never use anyways to appeal to DOD customers who already are rocking NGALs. The ZBolt ACAL is vaporwate and the EOTech OGL civilian is only ever going to be, at best, a boutique item that is unobtainium without serious conections, deep pockets, and a lot of patience. It would be one thing if someone in the USA offered a similar product to the IRIS, but they really don't and I don't believe there is a snowball's chance in Hell of us ever seeing any of the apathetic, Devil May Care, I've got DOD contracts so get lost civilian peon, companies making an affordable VCSEL for civilians. |
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There so many angles and dangles to this issue. Now that we are in a full-blown trade war, outcome uncertain, what is going to happen? Dunno. However, after having moved to SD, getting settled in, and thinking many things over: Bottom line, China has fist-fucked us for decades. This trade deficit needs to be equalized. If that knocks off the knock-offs, then so be it. Best outcome is for companies to return/re-locate to CONUS. So if Holosun or anybody else wants to sell to US market, build a facility here and help create good factory jobs for us. Yes they might cost more, maybe a lot more, but re-building America is more important than toys for 99.9% of us here. I have re-calibrated my views on Chinese products since the election. My estimate of the sit is that I don't think I will be needing NV in a WROL-type scenario any time in the foreseeable future. This is due both to the new political climate and also my new geography. Since the perceived need for these things has declined, I am no longer buying and testing out their stuff. I was never buying these things to "spite" the domestics, nor posting this to "troll" folks here. I was buying them simply because it was the only place to get what I wanted, in features, price, and availability. Going forward, I am fully converting my primary weapons to the best I can afford, which is mainly domestic products. EOTech EXPS3-0, L-3 ATPIAL, Wilcox 5/8" riser, SF light, Geiselle Mk16 rail. The Chinese knock-offs are still in use, as secondary weapons for training. A Holy Warrior EXPS3-0, Somo Gear PEQ-15, SOTAC 5/8" riser, and light, with a HAO Mk16 rail are perfectly serviceable for land nav and other patrolling skills. However, going forward, as I buy more domestic stuff, I will eventually shit-can the Chinese knock-offs, for hopefully new products made here in the States. That being said, I will not be buying extremely high priced NV stuff; I will either live with a lower-performing model, or do without. These things are all personal choice; these are simply my choices for your consideration. I have no stake in any NV company, whether foreign or domestic. |
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Even bringing China into compliance with the WTO rules they're supposed to follow, but haven't since being admitted would be a huge victory. China was like Mr. Rogers when they were petitioning to join the WTO, but literally the day after they were admitted they just ignored everything and proceeding to ripping off the other members. Keep in mind it's not just the USA that China has been screwing over for now about a generation, it's literally everyone on the planet. With China being the surplus exporter and with their failed real estate market and inability to rely upon their own domestic consumption for the GDP numbers they need to post just to keep the lights on in the CCP's offices they're not well positioned for a trade war. I frankly can't believe that Xi retaliated against Trump. I can't believe he's using rare earth mineral exports as a trade weapon either, talk about giving the USA even more incentive to take over Greenland. Xi isn't exactly sitting pretty back on his throne either, he's been in a full blown Game of Thrones power struggle where he's disappearing people and his oppoents are disappearing his people left and right. Now is not the time for China to head into a storm when they're in a very leaky boat. If Trump really does have them isolated, as he has appeared to accomplish, then I just don't see them staying in this fight for very long at all. They can't afford instability, they already have this huge surplus of single angry young men who aren't satisifed with the status quo. Also, they've already been losing business to South Vietnam and Cambodia, my guess is that every major global corporation is looking to move out of China for greener and even cheaper locations. Trump was actually pretty honest when he said on his "Truth Social" account that China made a bad move, that was a legit assessment not just a brag. |
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Originally Posted By Diz: There so many angles and dangles to this issue. Now that we are in a full-blown trade war, outcome uncertain, what is going to happen? Dunno. However, after having moved to SD, getting settled in, and thinking many things over: Bottom line, China has fist-fucked us for decades. This trade deficit needs to be equalized. If that knocks off the knock-offs, then so be it. Best outcome is for companies to return/re-locate to CONUS. So if Holosun or anybody else wants to sell to US market, build a facility here and help create good factory jobs for us. Yes they might cost more, maybe a lot more, but re-building America is more important than toys for 99.9% of us here. I have re-calibrated my views on Chinese products since the election. My estimate of the sit is that I don't think I will be needing NV in a WROL-type scenario any time in the foreseeable future. This is due both to the new political climate and also my new geography. Since the perceived need for these things has declined, I am no longer buying and testing out their stuff. I was never buying these things to "spite" the domestics, nor posting this to "troll" folks here. I was buying them simply because it was the only place to get what I wanted, in features, price, and availability. Going forward, I am fully converting my primary weapons to the best I can afford, which is mainly domestic products. EOTech EXPS3-0, L-3 ATPIAL, Wilcox 5/8" riser, SF light, Geiselle Mk16 rail. The Chinese knock-offs are still in use, as secondary weapons for training. A Holy Warrior EXPS3-0, Somo Gear PEQ-15, SOTAC 5/8" riser, and light, with a HAO Mk16 rail are perfectly serviceable for land nav and other patrolling skills. However, going forward, as I buy more domestic stuff, I will eventually shit-can the Chinese knock-offs, for hopefully new products made here in the States. That being said, I will not be buying extremely high priced NV stuff; I will either live with a lower-performing model, or do without. These things are all personal choice; these are simply my choices for your consideration. I have no stake in any NV company, whether foreign or domestic. I kind of wonder just what the real cost would be to make things in the USA again. Case in point, the Star Wars Millennium Falcon in 1980 cost $29.99. It was made in Ohio, by Americans. The new Hasbro (they purchased Kenner back in the day) Star Wars Millennium Falcon now in 2025 costs $179 - $200. It is made in China. The American dollar was stronger in 1980, things cost more but your dollar also went farther. So, if trade is rebalanced and at the same time the deficit is reduced, inflation hits records lows, and so forth will a US made Holosun product really be that much more expensive than a Chinese made one? Maybe not, Hell could end up being cheaper if new plants in the USA are more automated, and they'd probably be of a higher quality as well. |
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What kind of scares the Hell out of me is how good Chinese Thermals are compared to the USA made ones and how they're able to crank them out in higher number and much lower cost. It was very eye opening listening to Primary Arms in their SHOT Show videos about their new pistol red dot. Apparently, a lab grown crystal is used for its red dot (I presume that's the case for all similar red dots) and those crystals are only made in Germany or China, the USA doesn't make them. So, we've got a U.S. military using red dot sights and the dots for those sights are all reliant on foreign sourced parts, that's not very comforting.  If we got into war with China or even if China got into a war with say India and international trade in Asia was hampered, we'd be slammed into a Great Depression that made the first one look like a mild inconvenience by comparison. If we got into direct conflict with China I think we'd be reduced to boiling bandages like it was the Civil War era for our troops. I really, really like the Holosun IRIS. I love Chinese thermals. I don't love those things more than my country though and if they have to be more expensive or even unobtainium, so be it. |
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Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: If Trump really does have them isolated, as he has appeared to accomplish, then I just don't see them staying in this fight for very long at all. They can't afford instability, they already have this huge surplus of single angry young men who aren't satisifed with the status quo. Also, they've already been losing business to South Vietnam and Cambodia, my guess is that every major global corporation is looking to move out of China for greener and even cheaper locations. Trump was actually pretty honest when he said on his "Truth Social" account that China made a bad move, that was a legit assessment not just a brag. This right here is key. I was right to buy back in November as I stated earlier in the thread and I think I'm right when I say that this is likely going to escalate to a kinetic confrontation. IF China can pull it off, they will cow the surrounding nations, preserve their manufacturing dominance and rising financial influence through BRICS, get rid of a lot of angry young men and current leadership will consolidate their power base. |
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Yeah the bottom line for me is I no longer view NV as being a key component of "prepping" lifestyle. For where I am, and what I'm doing, it is a nice capability enhancement. If we are cut off from fun things from China, then so be it. And hopefully this brings more manufacturing back to America. I have a totally different perspective now, with a new administration, not to mention a new zip code. If I can buy domestic, not to mention local, then I'm going to, as far as possible. I have a renewed faith in my country I didn't have a short time ago. On war with China, jeez, anything can happen, but my gut feeling is they are mostly a paper tiger. They are very good poker players and know how to bluff everyone into thinking there are something they are not. Russia did this for decades. Turns out they weren't anything like we feared. If you have a prez with the balls to sanction and isolate them economically, they will eventually collapse like a house of cards. Reagan did it with Russia, Trump can do it with China. Like to see: Domestics making 5-800 LAM's, Foreigners setting up plants here making LAM's. And World Peace. (Obscure reference to Sandra Bullock movie) |
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I'd love to see the IRIS series manufactured here in the USA by Holosun USA. I really applaud Primary Arms for their transformation now to carrying more US made optics. I still really get pissed that our current US companies seem content to see civilian sales as an after thought. Although 3EIR looks to be working on some cool new VCSEL MFALS that will come in around the $2K mark for the civilian market, but God I wish they could get that down to the $1,500 or less range. Civilians don't really want the insanely feature rich Raid XE type MFALs, we're just fine with a light weight meat and potatos features with excellent ergos like the IRIS. |
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My 2.7 cents. I dont think with any kind of tariff, the existing US manufacturers of lam's and other devices will "take a stab" at selling lower priced items. They have had years to try to do this and they have not. For the most part US manufacturers sell to .gov type groups and can get any price they really want for them. We every day people who dont use this stuff for knocking down doors are willing to live with some "problems" of cheaper stuff, aka drifting zeros and occasional failures. The US based companies have not lowered the prices to compete with china companies when the price difference was 10x and they wont do it when the difference is 7.5x. Lets be honest a chunk of aluminum shoved in to a cnc mil costs the same here as it does in china. The man power to put a 2 buck piece in the cnc mil is 1 or 2 mins, paying the person 5 or 40 bucks an hour is not what influences the cost to the degree we see it. The machine time pretty much costs the same both places, with in the cost difference of the electric use as once running the person does not do anything. If holosun started a factory to produce the iris here the cost might go up 50 bucks if the factory did other things. The real benefit of china manufacturing is holosun can reach out to a cnc company and say machine us 1000 iris housings. They dont have to own the cnc mills to do it. They would have to do the same thing here, or get their own machines. But then they would have to do machining for other items even for other companies as the market is just not big enough to have one machine that only does say iris housings. I used to live near a cnc shop that did work for beretta, they would start the machines to run at night and there was not a single person there. They would do the small stuff during the day, one guy loading 10 mills, and he would stick in the next blank as needed every few mins. The night time stuff took 4-6 hours from what I was told, load it up and leave. |
"I am gonna laugh my ass off looking out the air vent of the box car watching some of you shot in the head in a ditch when you finally realize it's time to resist." stolen from RR_broccoli
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Well, yeah, and this may be the way forward; automated CNC machinery, in a (US) machine shop, where many small businesses can combined their orders to keep them busy. Might be a nice segue to get US companies up and running. Might even do specialty products, such as LAMs 1st qtr, something else the 2d, and so on. Combined sales on different (niche) products to survive. It would seem the Chinese have this division of labor, as it were, where you can shop around for machine work, then finish and assembly, and whatever else you need. Perhaps that's a model we need to take a look at. I know it's been done before in the outdoor gear industry out west, where they have several sewers working from home, making sub-assemblies, then brought together for final assembly. The classic "decentralized" factory. |
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TNVC is probably having a party because of it. I mean they are the main reason we've been annexed to this section, right. I'm not sure how I feel about it. For sure it doesn't help the consumer and it certainly doesn't encourage domestic companies to innovative or lower costs for the commoners since they'll have the market cornered. Overall, I think my take is, it is bad for us but good for usa companies. Except the US companies that import the Chinese products. . |
I am not an operator nor am I very smart.
Keep that in mind when reading my comments:-)
Keep that in mind when reading my comments:-)
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Originally Posted By Diz: That's true. I don't fault TNVC; they are just being themselves. They started the "civilian" market ATPIAL and don't want to see any foreign clones. But I'd still hit the Iris, especially if it's US-made. Sorry late to the party (someone forwarded this to us). Actually we started the FIRST IR lasers with Laser Devices some 15vyears ago where ALL IR lasers were restricted Class 3B. We worked closely with LDI to get variances from the FDA written to allow civilian IR lasers to even be sold. |
Tactical Night Vision Corporation - TNVC, INC.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000
Dedicated to the men and women in uniform who fight the good fight.
http://www.tnvc.com
[email protected]
(909) 796-7000
Dedicated to the men and women in uniform who fight the good fight.
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Originally Posted By carholio: TNVC is probably having a party because of it. I mean they are the main reason we've been annexed to this section, right. I'm not sure how I feel about it. For sure it doesn't help the consumer and it certainly doesn't encourage domestic companies to innovative or lower costs for the commoners since they'll have the market cornered. Overall, I think my take is, it is bad for us but good for usa companies. Except the US companies that import the Chinese products. That said, we didn't and wouldn't want to outright ban discussion of Chinese products as users should be free to talk about them. We feel this structure is the best option for the time being. |
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Late to the party, but I don't see this helping our cause with getting the laser devices we want and need. The SMS, Zenitco, etc. were a life saver in regard to outfitting kit. It's just too expensive to get the US made equivalents. I even got burned (almost) buying a legit FP laser through "legal" channels. I had a wandering zero and it was a pain to get service even with credentials and all the paperwork saying it was legit. |
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Originally Posted By 10-8DoWork: Late to the party, but I don't see this helping our cause with getting the laser devices we want and need. The SMS, Zenitco, etc. were a life saver in regard to outfitting kit. It's just too expensive to get the US made equivalents. I even got burned (almost) buying a legit FP laser through "legal" channels. I had a wandering zero and it was a pain to get service even with credentials and all the paperwork saying it was legit. That's a bummer on the service for your legit FP laser. Hopefully you were able to get it serviced. Like you, I think we're all going to get hosed on the prices for this stuff, at least in the short term. That being said, I am all about domestic manufacturing and supporting American small business. We just need more entries into this space to lower prices. |
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Again, it really depends on how the Chinese companies decide to allocate the cost of the tariff. Trump implemented tariffs in 2017 intially on things like Chinese solar panels and washing machines then expanding that to include steel, aluminum, and other products. I didn't notice any significant increases at that time on the retail end. I'm not seeing an increase right now in Chinese made products, when I go to the Best Buy website the Chinese made televisions are still priced about the same as they were pre-Tariffs. The Holosun IRIS 3 and Laserspeed MTR still seem to be going for about the same cost as they were pre-Tariffs. Now, we're only a month in, the Tariffs were instituted on April 2nd, so it's just possible we haven't seen those issues hit yet, but so far so good. |
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90 Day suspension of tariffs now as China and the USA agree to trade negotiations. I think everything will be just fine. iRay bumped their price up for the V2 model awhile back, their price increases have more to do with significant demand increases than anything else. |
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Agreed, we are seeing knock-down affects from all this drama. For instance some shippers are charging another 1K premium per container, just for all the aggro I suppose. Not to mention Mfg's's charging extra to cover their expenses. That's why all the big dogs are rushing to invest in US mfg. They are reading the tea leaves and acting accordingly. Right now a container costs us around 2300 US. So that extra 1K hits us pretty hard. Not to mention factory prices are bound to go up somewhat. It's gonna get to a point where making kit in the US looks pretty good. I'd imagine electronics are very similar. |
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Originally Posted By Diz: Agreed, we are seeing knock-down affects from all this drama. For instance some shippers are charging another 1K premium per container, just for all the aggro I suppose. Not to mention Mfg's's charging extra to cover their expenses. That's why all the big dogs are rushing to invest in US mfg. They are reading the tea leaves and acting accordingly. Right now a container costs us around 2300 US. So that extra 1K hits us pretty hard. Not to mention factory prices are bound to go up somewhat. It's gonna get to a point where making kit in the US looks pretty good. I'd imagine electronics are very similar. Add to that the delays lately, there is just so much crap being manufactured in Asia and frankly the Port of LA and Long Beach are simply overwhelmed. Primary Arms were pretty much Nostradamus, whether they started slowly moving manufacturing to the USA years ago out of patriotism, a desire to get government contracts, or simply recognizing the shift is debatable, but they really have set themselves on a nice transition path. I'd love to see Holosun USA start to do a transition to U.S. production, it would help them get the IRIS into the hands of LEO agencies that are restricted to US products. IRIS is very well received, there are guys with the ability to buy things like the EOTech OGL that actually prefer the IRIS. I have met many guys that actually prefer the Holosun pistol sights over some of the U.S. options and not just due to price, but based on features. |
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